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[QUOTE=Sdawg;5212058]Lol yes the inconsistencies are startling which is why I am not a fan of this couple. If done well and respected consistently by all who handle them I would be fully behind it. But given the factions of the marvel office, the best and most enduring romances tend to be those that are done in house. I'm definitely no fan of the Logan/Storm hot mess, but this may also be why some people react more positively towards it. Due to BP and Storm belong to different branches, their relationship often feels like the office struggles illustrated. It reeks of office relationships and deals. Sometimes the two sides love each other, sometimes they hate each other, sometimes they honor each other, and some time they troll each other. Storm and BP just seem to be collateral damage.[/QUOTE]
honestly I'm over it now. this is literally the same **** they did after they broke them up the first time. let tchalla get far away from the toxic world that is the xbooks
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[img]https://www.comicbookrevolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Marauders-13-3.jpg[/img]
Sweet! I can't wait.
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Hickman is very big picture kind of guy. So I feel confident in the BP&Storm relationship.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5212078]honestly I'm over it now. this is literally the same **** they did after they broke them up the first time. let tchalla get far away from the toxic world that is the xbooks[/QUOTE]
I can agree with that. That the X-office seems to rely on BP so much for story and lore, especially as it relates to Storm, is pretty stupid when you think about it. I understand it's a shared universe but if X-writers can build these expansive mutant clans and entire concepts like Limbo around certain characters I don't know why the same can't be done for Storm.
Because it's weird to see that the only time Storm seems to get shine is when she's digging back into her ex-husband's mythos. Her new suit, her introduction in X-Men Red, her divinity that she's finally embracing, the sword that makes her relevant in this event, all these things tie back to T'Challa when they could've been used to build her up.
And at the same time they **** on and retcon that same mythos lol, trying to create a rivalry between mutants and Wakanda out of nowhere lol. Typical self-defeating victim mentality. They could've given Storm the Sword of Bone and delved into her long hinted mystical heritage but instead they go the stereotypical "Storm romance drama" route that's dragged the character down in the past. While only setting up more conflict between her and her ex because the X-office doesn't know what to do with her.
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[QUOTE=chief12d;5212210]I can agree with that. That the X-office seems to rely on BP so much for story and lore, especially as it relates to Storm, is pretty stupid when you think about it. I understand it's a shared universe but if X-writers can build these expansive mutant clans and entire concepts like Limbo around certain characters I don't know why the same can't be done for Storm.
Because it's weird to see that the only time Storm seems to get shine is when she's digging back into her ex-husband's mythos. Her new suit, her introduction in X-Men Red, her divinity that she's finally embracing, the sword that makes her relevant in this event, all these things tie back to T'Challa when they could've been used to build her up.
And at the same time they **** on and retcon that same mythos lol, trying to create a rivalry between mutants and Wakanda out of nowhere lol. Typical self-defeating victim mentality. They could've given Storm the Sword of Bone and delved into her long hinted mystical heritage but instead they go the stereotypical "Storm romance drama" route that's dragged the character down in the past. While only setting up more conflict between her and her ex because the X-office doesn't know what to do with her.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's that deep. The x offices wanted it over and done like a lot of other x-fans and they planned it well enough to know exactly who to have write it to deal with some of the possible push back. Quite a bit of thought went into this and it was more a case of they knew exactly where they didn't want storm to be. Kudos to hickman and crew from me.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5212220]I don't think it's that deep. The x offices wanted it over and done like a lot of other x-fans and they planned it well enough to know exactly who to have write it to deal with some of the possible push back. Quite a bit of thought went into this and it was more a case of they knew exactly where they didn't want storm to be. Kudos to hickman and crew from me.[/QUOTE]
I agree it's not that deep, I doubt they put much thought into how Storm operates as a character when T'Challa isn't involved lol. The last few instances I pointed out demonstrate that. Just last post you said that this wasn't a clear separation between them. In the recent publication on the main Marvel site the relationship was described as "damaged", not "ended".
Like with the mutant son of Marvel's First Family, the X-office plans on drawing out the tension because Storm apparently doesn't have much going on unless T'Challa and his mythos are available. Sad but true. And so they pick a weak black writer to introduce this tension and will have white writers use him to prop her up. Marauders #13 being the first foray into that with the contrived writing for Shuri and T'Challa. They have a direction, but it's rooted in their lack of idea of how Storm as an independent entity can thrive within the X-World. And their suspect use (or lack thereof) of straight, competent black men.
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Meh. Now that she's free of the Black Panther they can have her shine without digging into his mythos. Regardless of her status with BP, I am enjoying the current X-Men stories as a whole and Storm's part in X of Swords. They are setting up something for Storm and thus far I am still excited about it. Bring on the stories I say. Let's see where they are taking the character
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[QUOTE=chief12d;5212230]I agree it's not that deep, I doubt they put much thought into how Storm operates as a character when T'Challa isn't involved lol. The last few instances I pointed out demonstrate that. Just last post you said that this wasn't a clear separation between them. In the recent publication on the main Marvel site the relationship was described as "damaged", not "ended".
Like with the mutant son of Marvel's First Family, the X-office plans on drawing out the tension because Storm apparently doesn't have much going on unless T'Challa and his mythos are available. Sad but true. And so they pick a weak black writer to introduce this tension and will have white writers use him to prop her up. Marauders #13 being the first foray into that with the contrived writing for Shuri and T'Challa. They have a direction, but it's rooted in their lack of idea of how Storm as an independent entity can thrive within the X-World. And their suspect use (or lack thereof) of straight, competent black men.[/QUOTE]
Lol this post is every reason they need to end. Despite what the writers do storm will always be the bigger character with more potential and unlike bp is irreplaceable. She was plucked fro the xbooks to even give tchallabo noteriety. Xtreme x-men and storm books sell far above tchalla books. And it needed to end for this vary narrative. They were turning storm into a bp character she is above that. Before she went to the bp books she whad book after book and that's with the controversy noose around her neck so I'm glad it's done. Let my girl be free so no can go be great. I'm sure shuri will rocked the bp suit in the next movie and then syngery will follow so they def ended it at the right time.
You can pick up any sales data from any month in any year and see who the real seller is. Giant size x-men storm, bp could never.
I wi refrain from mentioning tchaa further this is finally a great time to be an x-men fan who loves storm. I doubt anyone on the xsude us in a rush to reunite them and tchalla book ain't even been out in months. Let him be great with Aaron and the phoenix or any other wakanda first story.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5212469]Lol this post is every reason they need to end. Despite what the writers do storm will always be the bigger character with more potential and unlike bp is irreplaceable. She was plucked fro the xbooks to even give tchallabo noteriety. Xtreme x-men and storm books sell far above tchalla books. And it needed to end for this vary narrative. They were turning storm into a bp character she is above that. Before she went to the bp books she whad book after book and that's with the controversy noose around her neck so I'm glad it's done. Let my girl be free so no can go be great. I'm sure shuri will rocked the bp suit in the next movie and then syngery will follow so they def ended it at the right time.
You can pick up any sales data from any month in any year and see who the real seller is. Giant size x-men storm, bp could never.
I wi refrain from mentioning tchaa further this is finally a great time to be an x-men fan who loves storm. I doubt anyone on the xsude us in a rush to reunite them and tchalla book ain't even been out in months. Let him be great with Aaron and the phoenix or any other wakanda first story.[/QUOTE]
I agree (as many BP fans do) that the relationship needed to end. Unlike Storm, T'Challa is a multi-billion dollar solo IP, he needs in-house love interests lol. But then why was it damaged instead of ended? Why leave open the possibility of more conflict with Wakanda if the intention was simply to have Storm be independent of Black Panther? It was a story designed to create additional conflict, not separate the character, which was my issue and speaks to a larger issue for her character, as a fan. I mean just look at Storm's description for her role in this event, it was all BP stuff lol (vibranium, Shuri, Wakandan religion, T'Challa).
I'm not getting into the weeds with you about who's more popular, that's juvenile in comparison to how Storm is actually used/perceived by audiences (especially casuals). Like I've said, most of her major moments as of late are tied to her ex and there are dangling plot threads between them to this day, which I think hamstring her independence. This event was a missed opportunity to use the Sword of Bone or show her skills as a competent diplomat. The X-office seems to be building towards a big story for her, but I think there's a legitimate concern that it will once again tie into relationship/Wakanda drama which ultimately drags down both characters (as I like both of them).
Or maybe it won't happen, maybe they'll build off the goddess plotline that was funny enough, introduced in Black Panther lol. We'll see but because it wasn't clear where they stand this is the type of uncertainty some fans in this thread have. Which isn't to say I don't see the potential in what they might do, but I have my concerns. Though it's ok if you disagree and feel otherwise.
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[QUOTE=chief12d;5212516]I agree (as many BP fans do) that the relationship needed to end. Unlike Storm, T'Challa is a multi-billion dollar solo IP, he needs in-house love interests lol. But then why was it damaged instead of ended? Why leave open the possibility of more conflict with Wakanda if the intention was simply to have Storm be independent of Black Panther? It was a story designed to create additional conflict, not separate the character, which was my issue and speaks to a larger issue for her character, as a fan. I mean just look at Storm's description for her role in this event, it was all BP stuff lol (vibranium, Shuri, Wakandan religion, T'Challa).
I'm not getting into the weeds with you about who's more popular, that's juvenile in comparison to how Storm is actually used/perceived by audiences (especially casuals). Like I've said, most of her major moments as of late are tied to her ex and there are dangling plot threads between them to this day, which I think hamstring her independence. This event was a missed opportunity to use the Sword of Bone or show her skills as a competent diplomat. The X-office seems to be building towards a big story for her, but I think there's a legitimate concern that it will once again tie into relationship/Wakanda drama which ultimately drags down both characters (as I like both of them).
Or maybe it won't happen, maybe they'll build off the goddess plotline that was funny enough, introduced in Black Panther lol. We'll see but because it wasn't clear where they stand this is the type of uncertainty some fans in this thread have. Which isn't to say I don't see the potential in what they might do, but I have my concerns. Though it's ok if you disagree and feel otherwise.[/QUOTE]
Another misconception seems to be that somehow BP introduced the goddess theme when in fact it was already a apart of Storm and her legacy. Another problem Storm started to get too muddled in the BP franchise and was nothing more than an accessory, the BP line gave Storm nothing of substance other than using her to boost the sales once and awhile. i can't hate on them for that, it is what it is i don't know what Deal hudlin worked out with the BP office or what sort of loop holes may not have been in the use of her character or where she could be or not. Storm was bigger before BP and now after she seems to be on the rise again. As a fan of Storm and the x-men that's all i really care about in the grand scheme of things.
Your also right they could have used the sword of bone or what not but perhaps that will be done at another time who knows all i know is i see Storm being used now that she is back firmly in the X-office and i don't have to go wander around the other side of the MU to find her so it's a win for me. i don't bedgrude anyone their opinions or their likes or dislikes it simply is what it is.
As far as the relationship for BP/Storm they left it in a way that someone could explore it but it won't be the x-oiffice. They left it in a place where Storm told him this was bigger than wakanda and krakoa and they both know he is wakanda first so in that respect she laid it down. She will either return the sword or not but at that point it's on tchalla because she made her choice and did what she did and i pray for us all the BP books just let it go too and we can all just move on with the stories we prefer to read.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5212530]Another misconception seems to be that somehow BP introduced the goddess theme when in fact it was already a apart of Storm and her legacy. Another problem Storm started to get too muddled in the BP franchise and was nothing more than an accessory, the BP line gave Storm nothing of substance other than using her to boost the sales once and awhile. i can't hate on them for that, it is what it is i don't know what Deal hudlin worked out with the BP office or what sort of loop holes may not have been in the use of her character or where she could be or not. Storm was bigger before BP and now after she seems to be on the rise again. As a fan of Storm and the x-men that's all i really care about in the grand scheme of things.
Your also right they could have used the sword of bone or what not but perhaps that will be done at another time who knows all i know is i see Storm being used now that she is back firmly in the X-office and i don't have to go wander around the other side of the MU to find her so it's a win for me. i don't bedgrude anyone their opinions or their likes or dislikes it simply is what it is.
As far as the relationship for BP/Storm they left it in a way that someone could explore it but it won't be the x-oiffice. They left it in a place where Storm told him this was being than wakanda and krakoa and they both know he is wakanda first so in that respect she laid it down. She will either return the sword or not but at that point it's on tchalla because she made her choice and did what she did and i pray for us all the BP books just let it go too and we can all just move on with the stories we prefer to read.[/QUOTE]
It's not a misconception, that's an objective fact lol. Up until Coates, Storm had vaguely defined mystical abilities with ties to an elder god, he confirmed (where the X-office retconned away) she was in fact a goddess. C'mon we don't have to be revisionist with the history of Storm's development to make a point.
Either way I don't quite think you understand what I'm getting at, but that's ok. Like I've said, when nearly every major moment for Storm since roughly 2017 is tied to T'Challa, both in his book and in Storm's own franchise, I think it's a problem for her as an independent character. If you're fine with her being more of an ambassador for T'Challa than Gentle then that's your prerogative, but I come from the perspective of someone who'd like to see her mythos developed without relying on another franchise, least of all her ex-husband.
Which is why the refusal to permanently end the romance is weird. You'd think if they wanted complete ownership, like when T'Challa first divorced her, the X-office would do something more definitive. Instead they leave open the possibility of war with Krakoa and have her once again basically confirm they still love each other. T'Challa, as I'm sure you're aware, is a fictional character. If his mythos creeps up again in DOX to drive Storm's story, that's on the X-office, which comes back to the idea they don't seem to have a story for her that's not tied to him. But I could be wrong, all that's left to do is see. I have my hopes and my concerns, but with all the plot threads DOX established who knows.
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Storm and BP is always such a strange phenomena to me. I am not a fan of BP. His story and mythos just don't grab me in any kind of way. I am an X-fan, so I would much rather see Storm featured and thriving in the series I actually give a damn about. But the odd phenomena I said earlier deals with the opinion that the BP TPTB are the only ones who seem to want to do anything with the character, while the X PTB always just are content with letting her languish. So I get stuck slogging through BP just to get a decent Storm story, while enjoying reading X-titles and wishing that Storm wasn't so paper thin and irrelevant.
That's why it is also always so weird that the X PTB often yank Storm from BP with the reasoning that they are a actually going to do something with her. Thus far they have not, and I never believe "big plans" since the X side has never delivered on that in 15 years despite their "efforts," so I don't have much faith in them doing so in this era, but we will see. I always give the X-side more chances cause again, I am am X-fan first and foremost. I wasn't impressed with Giant Sized Storm nor Storm's role in DOX so far. Feels like more of the same. I did really like the recent Marauders though and hope that is a precursor to the turning of the tide, alongside XoS as well.
I do hope Storm is done with BP. They have my gratitude for elevating and caring about the character, but I don't want to read about her in a series that I just don't care about.
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[QUOTE=Saturius;5212548]Storm and BP is always such a strange phenomena to me. I am not a fan of BP. His story and mythos just don't grab me in any kind of way. I am an X-fan, so I would much rather see Storm featured and thriving in the series I actually give a damn about. But the odd phenomena I said earlier deals with the opinion that the BP TPTB are the only ones who seem to want to do anything with the character, while the X PTB always just are content with letting her languish. So I get stuck slogging through BP just to get a decent Storm story, while enjoying reading X-titles and wishing that Storm wasn't so paper thin and irrelevant.
That's why it is also always so weird that the X PTB often yank Storm from BP with the reasoning that they are a actually going to do something with her. Thus far they have not, and I never believe "big plans" since the X side has never delivered on that in 15 years despite their "efforts," so I don't have much faith in them doing so in this era, but we will see. I always give the X-side more chances cause again, I am am X-fan first and foremost. I wasn't impressed with Giant Sized Storm nor Storm's role in DOX so far. Feels like more of the same. I did really like the recent Marauders though and hope that is a precursor to the turning of the tide, alongside XoS as well.
I do hope Storm is done with BP. They have my gratitude for elevating and caring about the character, but I don't want to read about her in a series that I just don't care about.[/QUOTE]
That's a nuanced and respectable viewpoint. I'm a fan of BP and several other Avengers on top of being an X-fan but I agree with the idea that she needs to thrive in her home franchise. That said, I'm personally tired of giving the X-office a chance with Storm. They need to stop lending her to the BP office whenever they get tired of her and using her as a token when they do, and commit to a direction.
It doesn't help her to be an extension of his franchise and it doesn't help T'Challa to not have a stable love interest as a solo IP, they deserve better, especially as the two most popular black characters in comics. As bad as I thought Marauders was, I hope that it ended whatever connections they have so Storm can be fully immersed in the DOX narrative, but the way it ended, I have my doubts.
That was the cause of this conversation to begin with, Storm still has those ties and Marvel seems to be doubling down on them by creating conflict between them. But we'll see, maybe it gets handwaved away and Storm can finally get stories not contingent on T'Challa.
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[COLOR="#000080"]I've largely stayed away from the BP/Storm relationship situation because I've pretty much said my peace. I'm not going to get into any kind of pissing contest on who did what to who or who benefits because it's moot.
Under the current conditions, a BP/Storm relationship cannot work for reasons well documented by both sides of the debate. Marvel however will continue to hang on to it as it's been well used as a plot point to provide tension for each character and fan base. We've had dozens of threads, hundreds of posts and multiple bannings because of it.
I refuse to participate anymore. First and foremost I'm a staunch BP fan but I also have an interest in seeing Storm and other Black mutants do well. Going forward, my comments regarding Storm will be solely about her role and usage in X-books. I will be as critical(good and bad) of her portrayals as I am of BP's. I'm saying all of this so that my position is clear and understand. The BP/Storm relationship no longer matters to me because it no longer matters to Marvel in any good way.[/COLOR]
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The XBooks could stand to lose a few characters. Everyone is so stagnant, and rehash. At least else where there's opportunity to grow.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5212469]Lol this post is every reason they need to end. Despite what the writers do storm will always be the bigger character with more potential and unlike bp is irreplaceable.
[B]You can pick up any sales data from any month in any year and see who the real seller is. Giant size x-men storm, bp could never.[/B]
[/QUOTE]
Since you asked
[URL="https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2020/2020-09Diamond.html"]https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2020/2020-09Diamond.html[/URL]
[QUOTE]
Giant Size X-Men Storm 1 $4.99 09/16/20 Marvel 55,500 (est low) 66,000 (estimated high numbers)
[/QUOTE]
Kindle sales on Amazon
#2,418 in Superhero Graphic Novels
#6,547 in Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels
Trades on Amazon
Storm Vol. 1: Make It Rain
Kindle Store
#4,015 in Superhero Graphic Novels
#4,326 in Marvel Comics & Graphic Novels
#10,329 in Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels
Paperback
#1,504 in Marvel Comics & Graphic Novels
#3,391 in Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels
Volume 2
Kindle
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#4,981 in Marvel Comics & Graphic Novels
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[URL="https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-04.html"]https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-04.html[/URL]
[QUOTE]
1 1 Black Panther 1 $4.99 April 2016 Marvel 253,259
[/QUOTE]
Black Panther: A Nation Under Our Feet Book 1
Kindle
#33 in Marvel Comics & Graphic Novels
#38 in Superhero Graphic Novels
#44 in Comics & Graphic Novels (Kindle Store)
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Hardcover
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Need any more proof?
Panther fans have SCREAMED her being linked to him does not benefit her. Her being with him gives the X-Office and excuse to not invest in her. Her fans flocking to his book to read her ony benefits HIM. Because that book is in his name. Little sister Shuri has the novels not Storm.
We have screamed she needs her own STUFF. They have had 10+ years to do that. 10 years.
She sat with nothing while we saw Miles, Shuri, Moon Girl, Falcon, Riri, Spawn, Far Sector, Naomi, Duke Thomas, Doras and now a GROWING number of black lead books come out.
Yet where is this so-called way MORE popular than Black Panther-Storm at? Her fans have to get excited about ONE SHOT. When do Storm fans give a piece of their mind to the X-Office?
Because they can't keep tossing out excuses. How many more dead franchises and folks can get shots while the ones like Storm sit and wait?
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[QUOTE=chief12d;5212542]It's not a misconception, that's an objective fact lol. Up until Coates, Storm had vaguely defined mystical abilities with ties to an elder god, he confirmed (where the X-office retconned away) she was in fact a goddess. C'mon we don't have to be revisionist with the history of Storm's development to make a point.
Either way I don't quite think you understand what I'm getting at, but that's ok. Like I've said, when nearly every major moment for Storm since roughly 2017 is tied to T'Challa, both in his book and in Storm's own franchise, I think it's a problem for her as an independent character. If you're fine with her being more of an ambassador for T'Challa than Gentle then that's your prerogative, but I come from the perspective of someone who'd like to see her mythos developed without relying on another franchise, least of all her ex-husband.
Which is why the refusal to permanently end the romance is weird. You'd think if they wanted complete ownership, like when T'Challa first divorced her, the X-office would do something more definitive. Instead they leave open the possibility of war with Krakoa and have her once again basically confirm they still love each other. T'Challa, as I'm sure you're aware, is a fictional character. If his mythos creeps up again in DOX to drive Storm's story, that's on the X-office, which comes back to the idea they don't seem to have a story for her that's not tied to him. But I could be wrong, all that's left to do is see. I have my hopes and my concerns, but with all the plot threads DOX established who knows.[/QUOTE]
I get what your saying and in the end we want the same thing. Them complete sepeeeated and storm to never mention wakanda like she did in her silo and in extraodrfinary x-men both I enjoyed. Hopefully this is the last piece I would be all too happy if storm dies and comes back not remember tchalla outside of a hello when they were you g. I'm just done and exhausted having to read wakanda in my stories so on that I agree as well. But we can't act like tchalla didn't have certain behind the scenes freedoms rights and all storm didn't have. He was a placeholder because they couldn't add anything without it being given to fox or going the movies but that's over now too.
Let storm take her home country of kenya back from wakanda and he can do his stuff with avengers etc.
It's the bp team that keep trying to pull her. Let it go.
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[QUOTE=Sdawg;5212058]Lol yes the inconsistencies are startling which is why I am not a fan of this couple. If done well and respected consistently by all who handle them I would be fully behind it. But given the factions of the marvel office, the best and most enduring romances tend to be those that are done in house. I'm definitely no fan of the Logan/Storm hot mess, but this may also be why some people react more positively towards it. Due to BP and Storm belong to different branches, their relationship often feels like the office struggles illustrated. It reeks of office relationships and deals. Sometimes the two sides love each other, sometimes they hate each other, sometimes they honor each other, and some time they troll each other. Storm and BP just seem to be collateral damage.[/QUOTE]
Although, not even in-house romances from the same franchise are safe at Marvel. Remember what happened to the Peter Parker/Mary Jane Watson-Parker marriage? All it takes is for ANYONE in a position of power at Marvel to decide they don't like a certain romance in their comics for ANY reason, and it's bye-bye to THAT relationship.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;5212220]I don't think it's that deep. The x offices wanted it over and done like a lot of other x-fans and they planned it well enough to know exactly who to have write it to deal with some of the possible push back. Quite a bit of thought went into this and it was more a case of they knew exactly where they didn't want storm to be. Kudos to hickman and crew from me.[/QUOTE]
Which to me makes no sense because, if the X-Office wants to be petty (just like in 2012) and not have her be with Black Panther AGAIN, then why agree to have her back as Black Panther's love interest AGAIN? UNLESS the plan is just to troll comic books readers and not actually break them up, just because they like to see Storm fans and Black Panther fans go at it (which in itself is a twisted, sick desire).
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I've pretty much been saying this since I got here bros, Ro needs more fleshed out development which is why you usually see me taking Ali level jabs at the x faction of marvel. Personally i don't trust them but at the same time I agree with skyvolt that Ro needs more development in house if you're looking for our Girl to be The premier marvel heroin but again I'm a little more realistic in this situation because i don't expect them to do anything major with Ro at all which is why I'm not buying the whole "storms big break" thing and i swear something like that has been promised before but never delivered so my expectations are low, I know it's an Xmen book centered around the Xmen but i ain't trynna here all that and when you see Emma and Kate i definitely ain't trynna to here all that. No way there should be so much animosity between between BP and Storm fans stuff like this shouldn't be a problem at the same time though this is why i say i don't trust Marvel or DC with black characters and the two i mentioned are at the top of the totem, all this toxic divisive virtue signaling bs just for some story telling, sorry Bro's but that's a no go for me. No way you can justify this unnecessary drama between these 2 characters, as a fan of both this is why i say i'm neutral my metaphorical bullets are aimed at these writers lackin in the daylight.
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[QUOTE=MoneySpider;5212859]Which to me makes no sense because, if the X-Office wants to be petty (just like in 2012) and not have her be with Black Panther AGAIN, then why agree to have her back as Black Panther's love interest AGAIN? UNLESS the plan is just to troll comic books readers and not actually break them up, just because they like to see Storm fans and Black Panther fans go at it (which in itself is a twisted, sick desire).[/QUOTE]
Again i don't know what the deal was and i'm not into going back and forth with BP fans. I don't go to the thread won't read the book etc. i can be done now, i initally only picked it up because i was forced to follow storm there and i'm sure hudlin was intent on making it so that this was the place you had to go to see her. From my perspective there was Xtreme that ended with a new status quo she was ripped from the xbooks and pimped as BP's new wife. That led to a FF run that was okay. Doomwar that was trash, and pretty much Hudlin's entire run which was trash to me. For me as an X fan who continue reading Xbooks as well there was barely any storm then AVs X and they break up and next thing i know Storm i sback in my books i want to read so i can drop BP and go back to reading only what i want as i have very little interest in his character or wakanda no offense but not my thing at all. Then it took a whole for her to regain her stature in the xbooks but finally finally not only did she lead in extraordinary again but she is showing up in the xbooks and other places then all of a sudden Coates wants her and the next thing i know she's not the leader in the xbooks anymore, she has to recover from not being able to move a cloud and as such in the xbooks is backup again and now once again i have to pick up a book i don't want for Storm because again i have negative interest in BP and then i guess because the BP writers wanted her for some reason the xbooks should respect what they do for their home character but not the vice versa and i'm suppose to act like something is in for Storm. Naw, i'll just take lightning lass thank you.
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[QUOTE=MoneySpider;5212859]Which to me makes no sense because, if the X-Office wants to be petty (just like in 2012) and not have her be with Black Panther AGAIN, then why agree to have her back as Black Panther's love interest AGAIN? UNLESS the plan is just to troll comic books readers and not actually break them up, just because they like to see Storm fans and Black Panther fans go at it (which in itself is a twisted, sick desire).[/QUOTE]
Just a supposition but...I don't think it was a decided agreement...or rather, not in the way you/we might think.
At the time of Coates coming on to write BP the X-line was still stagnating without any clear direction and purpose (waiting for HiX-Man to say yea or nay?)...so the X-Editor at the time might have just said to Coates/Avengers editors: "Sure, knock yourself out, we really don't have any plans right now for her or most of the X-Characters really" (it could explain why he was able to use the Adversary and Selene, also).
Then HiX-Man said "YEA!"
...but Coates had already planned and written and published Storm and T'Challa reconnecting. Not a big deal really, as it was open-ended enough so as to be read as non-committal on the X-side (I don't know if it was definitely stated that they were back in a relationship in BP as I wasn't reading it)...hence the exchange between Jean and T'Challa in XM:R when Storm was knocked out under Cassie's influence.
Fast forward a couple of years later...Coates is no longer on the BP book and the X-franchise has a dedicated helmsman with a clear and definitive direction for the books and mutants...and are clearly not beholden to any other book or franchise, especially one that's currently in limbo.
Vita did what was absolutely necessary for the character, and the X-books, under the circumstances.
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[QUOTE=MoneySpider;5212859]Which to me makes no sense because, if the X-Office wants to be petty (just like in 2012) and not have her be with Black Panther AGAIN, then why agree to have her back as Black Panther's love interest AGAIN? UNLESS the plan is just to troll comic books readers and not actually break them up, just because they like to see Storm fans and Black Panther fans go at it (which in itself is a twisted, sick desire).[/QUOTE]
The X-Office gave Storm to the BP office for the same reason the BP office wanted her. The writers and editors don't care about the characters they're supposed to be promoting lol. Coates isn't really a fan of T'Challa, not in the conventional way at least, so he imported a character that he actually wanted to write about, hence why Storm hijacked the book in Season 2.
Storm's been languishing in mediocrity under X-writers since X-treme X-Men so her editors were all too happy to once again throw her to the BP office so they could focus on mutants they actually care about. Especially after how poorly she was depicted during the whole Terrigen situation. It's a mutual mishandling of their characters by writers more interested in pushing agendas and other characters.
And even when they're separated for some reason Marvel has Storm continuing to be rooted in his franchise. Did we need her and Wolverine to come back to Wakanda when they were together? Did Storm really need to steal the retconned Skybreaker sword and create tension between two franchises? Why couldn't they just break up, never to see each other again?
Marvel likes the drama that comes with this relationship's flip-flopping, especially since Storm's own lore is so underdeveloped she relies on her ex whenever she needs a story. Despite having her own mythos that could be built up. Maybe they'll shift away from that, but the signs don't look good unless you ignore the seeds they're sowing.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5212917]Just a supposition but...I don't think it was a decided agreement...or rather, not in the way you/we might think.
At the time of Coates coming on to write BP the X-line was still stagnating without any clear direction and purpose (waiting for HiX-Man to say yea or nay?)...so the X-Editor at the time might have just said to Coates/Avengers editors: "Sure, knock yourself out, we really don't have any plans right now for her or most of the X-Characters really" (it could explain why he was able to use the Adversary and Selene, also).
Then HiX-Man said "YEA!"
...but Coates had already planned and written and published Storm and T'Challa reconnecting. Not a big deal really, as it was open-ended enough so as to be read as non-committal on the X-side (I don't know if it was definitely stated that they were back in a relationship in BP as I wasn't reading it)...hence the exchange between Jean and T'Challa in XM:R when Storm was knocked out under Cassie's influence.
Fast forward a couple of years later...Coates is no longer on the BP book and the X-franchise has a dedicated helmsman with a clear and definitive direction for the books and mutants...and are clearly not beholden to any other book or franchise, especially one that's currently in limbo.
Vita did what was absolutely necessary for the character, and the X-books, under the circumstances.[/QUOTE]
You definitely hit the nail on the head. Once the x-office established a clear plan for xbooks, whatever Coates had cooking will take a backseat to whatever Hickman has planned for her. They might be on same page with the goddess thing (and that's a huge might), but Hickman may wanted to pull Storm away from Wakanda. I suspected this last year.
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Say what we may of HiX-Man but he knows his X-lore and he and his writers know how important Storm is to the X-Mythos.
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[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;5212679]Since you asked
[URL="https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2020/2020-09Diamond.html"]https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2020/2020-09Diamond.html[/URL]
Kindle sales on Amazon
#2,418 in Superhero Graphic Novels
#6,547 in Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels
Trades on Amazon
Storm Vol. 1: Make It Rain
Kindle Store
#4,015 in Superhero Graphic Novels
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#1,504 in Marvel Comics & Graphic Novels
#3,391 in Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels
Volume 2
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#4,706 in Superhero Graphic Novels
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#1,509 in Marvel Comics & Graphic Novels
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[URL="https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-04.html"]https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-04.html[/URL]
Black Panther: A Nation Under Our Feet Book 1
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#33 in Marvel Comics & Graphic Novels
#38 in Superhero Graphic Novels
#44 in Comics & Graphic Novels (Kindle Store)
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#437 in Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels
Need any more proof?
Panther fans have SCREAMED her being linked to him does not benefit her. Her being with him gives the X-Office and excuse to not invest in her. Her fans flocking to his book to read her ony benefits HIM. Because that book is in his name. Little sister Shuri has the novels not Storm.
We have screamed she needs her own STUFF. They have had 10+ years to do that. 10 years.
She sat with nothing while we saw Miles, Shuri, Moon Girl, Falcon, Riri, Spawn, Far Sector, Naomi, Duke Thomas, Doras and now a GROWING number of black lead books come out.
Yet where is this so-called way MORE popular than Black Panther-Storm at? Her fans have to get excited about ONE SHOT. When do Storm fans give a piece of their mind to the X-Office?
Because they can't keep tossing out excuses. How many more dead franchises and folks can get shots while the ones like Storm sit and wait?[/QUOTE]
Yup, Storm needs development in her own franchise, hence why the decision not to permanently end her connection with T'Challa is puzzling. She still has a sword that can spark a civil war in his kingdom, which potentially has implications on the economic protectorates, one of which is her homeland of Kenya. Mind you, Kenya was made a protectorate of Wakanda by the X-office lol. This same sword's theft also has the potential to spark conflict between Wakanda and Krakoa, a conflict she would obviously play a big role in.
And in the garbage issue this sword was introduced (Marauderd #13), they both proclaimed their love for one another and T'Challa (written by an X-writer) keeps open the option of diplomacy and her continuing to visit, just on different terms. Why even float that as a possibility if the intention was to keep them apart? Wakandans are going to be in the upcoming SWORD book. Wakanda was colored Red in HoX/PoX by Hickman, showing they have a role to play in DOX, much like Franklin Richards.
In X-Force we learn that Krakoa puts sanctions on and has a policy of regime change in non-treaty nations (like Wakanda), indicating a desire to dethrone T'Challa at some point. What is it with the X-office and Black Panther? I don't see why they're forcing these interactions, most of which relate back to a character who he shouldn't be involved with. Storm's autonomy is handicapped by all these plot threads relating to T'Challa and most of them involve conflict and tension. And of course T'Challa won't come out these interactions looking great either, if Ayala's Marauders is any indication.
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[QUOTE=jorge17881;5211590]Well...[IMG]https://www.awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/nathan-fillion-well-nevermind.gif[/IMG]
Wait, 200$ :eek: l hope a diamond is included[/QUOTE]
Not a diamond lmaooooooo
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5212949]Say what we may of HiX-Man but he knows his X-lore and he and his writers know how important Storm is to the X-Mythos.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say anything vita did in marauders 13 was necessary bruv. The only thing it did was reinforce unneeded drama between the two characters that should've went in a different way, no ones questioning John boys knowledge on X lore but at the same time this sword event isn't exactly something that would be considered as "a big story" not even for the Xmen. I mean it was pretty clear that the HiXMan era was in full force, Marvels YT channel wouldn't shut the hell up about it which leads to my previous comment about "Continuity" and in terms of the Xmen you can see that perfectly as it makes me believe they are written in a vacuum i mean honestly other than AvX (which was clear that said event was cooperate whoo ha behind the scenes due to movie rights) and the thing with skarlet witch and a few minor references to Krakoa no xmen story really effects the MU as a whole. In terms of storm and her link to BP i don't find that as an issue but at same time my issue is primarily the Xmen not giving the character the proper means and story potential go beyond just a lightning jobber which may be cool with Jwatson but it ain't cool with me especially when you take into account that Ro is black and a woman which honestly makes her depiction waaayyy more controversial also considering the whole "Storm doesn't look like you're average negro" chestnut by the old comix and it seems she can't have links to characters outside the X continuity without it being seen as a big deal to the point of complaints. As a storm fan i expect more of the character and that means expanding beyond just the xmen, i got no sympathy for these writers at all and in terms of storm characterization i don't approve of depictions that make her seem like she's wit the shits but unfortunately it ain't up to ya boy but if it was guarantee Ro would be in the forefront of the MU. I already know what i want from her character but idk about the rest of yall and yeah i can tell a good majority of yall aren't BP fans and that's cool but when ya don't expand your horizon to other characters you're basically a bias one trick pony that make assumptions about stuff ya don't know and that's not good, no disrespect.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5212561][COLOR="#000080"]I've largely stayed away from the BP/Storm relationship situation because I've pretty much said my peace. I'm not going to get into any kind of pissing contest on who did what to who or who benefits because it's moot.
Under the current conditions, a BP/Storm relationship cannot work for reasons well documented by both sides of the debate. Marvel however will continue to hang on to it as it's been well used as a plot point to provide tension for each character and fan base. We've had dozens of threads, hundreds of posts and multiple bannings because of it.
I refuse to participate anymore. First and foremost I'm a staunch BP fan but I also have an interest in seeing Storm and other Black mutants do well. Going forward, my comments regarding Storm will be solely about her role and usage in X-books. I will be as critical(good and bad) of her portrayals as I am of BP's. I'm saying all of this so that my position is clear and understand. The BP/Storm relationship no longer matters to me because it no longer matters to Marvel in any good way.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I'm not going to ever give up on tchalla/ororo but the who did what to who conversation is old and pointless. However, if we are taking score Storm was f@cked up for what she did to Wakanda in the latest issue of Marauders. She was irredeemable in that issue as she was shown to be a liar, impatient, deceptive and impulsive. All for what? To wait for six other people to show up. She was the only character shown to be so crazed at getting her sword and irrationally so.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;5212999]I'm not going to ever give up on tchalla/ororo but the who did what to who conversation is old and pointless. However, if we are taking score Storm was f@cked up for what she did to Wakanda in the latest issue of Marauders. She was irredeemable in that issue as she was shown to be a liar, impatient, deceptive and impulsive. All for what? To wait for six other people to show up. She was the only character shown to be so crazed at getting her sword and irrationally so.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]BK, I hope you are well rewarded for your devotion.
As far as Storm and Marauders #13, all I will say is this: Vita completed the assignment handed to them.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;5213012][COLOR="#000080"]BK, I hope you are well rewarded for your devotion.
As far as Storm and Marauders #13, all I will say is this: Vita completed the assignment handed to them.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
so as long as Storm is controlled by the xoffices that will never happen.
and vita definitely did even though the entire story was OOC PIS. as I've said the xoffices definitely did me a favor they saving me money.
oan: are people really saying storm sales better than black panther lolol that's hilarious.
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@Mekk80s
Bruv...
I am a BP fan. I'm not a fan of Coates' writing...at all.
Storm is one of my absolute favourite X-characters.
As a comic-book fan in general, not specifically of one franchise and one character and a reader of quite some years, I can appreciate and understand when character stories/development don't go as intended, anticipated and expected. If I think it's written well...I am always happy and willing to "go with the flow".
For example...
I'm sure if they had depowered Storm today the resulting vitriol would have obliterated the internet. (I believe there was a great deal of fan disappointment back in the day to her going punk and losing her powers) But Claremont wrote her story so well that powerless Storm is and always will be iconic to me.
Fun, silly story speculations aside...I simply refuse to wallow in angst and disappointment on issues and character developments over which I have no control or personal stake other than my enjoyment. All that internalising/in between-the-lines/behind office doors stuff that you mention is, objectively, of no interest to me whatsoever. At the end of the day, I read these books and characters for enjoyment when I no longer feel the joy, I just set it aside and move on to something else (because X-Men aren't the only books I read nor is Storm the only character I love.)
All that just to say...I view this Storm/BP issue with healthy, if somewhat apathetic, detachment.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5213059]@Mekk80s
Bruv...
I am a BP fan. I'm not a fan of Coates' writing...at all.
Storm is one of my absolute favourite X-characters.
As a comic-book fan in general, not specifically of one franchise and one character and a reader of quite some years, I can appreciate and understand when character stories/development don't go as intended, anticipated and expected. If I think it's written well...I am always happy and willing to "go with the flow".
For example...
I'm sure if they had depowered Storm today the resulting vitriol would have obliterated the internet. (I believe there was a great deal of fan disappointment back in the day to her going punk and losing her powers) But Claremont wrote her story so well that powerless Storm is and always will be iconic to me.
Fun, silly story speculations aside...I simply refuse to wallow in angst and disappointment on issues and character developments over which I have no control or personal stake other than my enjoyment. All that internalising/in between-the-lines/behind office doors stuff that you mention is, objectively, of no interest to me whatsoever. At the end of the day, I read these books and characters for enjoyment when I no longer feel the joy, I just set it aside and move on to something else (because X-Men aren't the only books I read nor is Storm the only character I love.)
All that just to say...I view this Storm/BP issue with healthy, if somewhat apathetic, detachment.[/QUOTE]
Hey, it is what it is mate my overall point is not to be ok with the okie doke. That's cool that you enjoy stories for what they are and my previous comment was more aimed at people in this thread that undermine and over exaggerate certain situation's but like i said before "I see bullshi i call out bullshi". Ever since i joined this thing back in early 2020 i made sure i was clear on my intentions as a fan of storm, we don't do bias over here so my approach on things is down the middle. My points about these writers may not interest you and that's cool because your interest isn't a concern to me but i make yall aware of the **** these writers pump out just so people have an understanding of how these modern day comic writers go about doing things, that's why I appreciate Butterflykyss who may be a storm fan as well but knows and see's bullcrap when it's obvious and stuff like that is important. You can be proactive without taking sides, the things i brought up along with Chief, Marvell, Skyvolt and Bk are relevant in this this thread. We all want different things like i stated before but it's clear not everyone is on the same page which is common in fandoms but there also needs to be a balance and a silver lining. Not everyone can be as neutrally positive as you are Davish and i respect it (Tho it might not matter from some random like me but whatever) while on the other there's just certain things you nor I or anyone else should b ok and fall in line with and Marauders 13 is a prime example of what i've been saying since yesterday, I'm just sitting, watching and waiting because like i also said before these chumps make it too easy so i be ready at all cost. I want Ro to succeed as a character more than anyone but damn sure not like this but whatevs homie G.
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From a detached if not wholly unbiased perspective (Marauders has been one of my favourite DoX books from the start)...I thought M13 was well-written, beauty-fully illustrated with a very strong showing of Storm's character and powers. What was there to not "fall in line" and be "okie-dokie" with?
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5213100]From a detached if not wholly unbiased perspective (Marauders has been one of my favourite DoX books from the start)...I thought M13 was well-written, beauty-fully illustrated with a very strong showing of Storm's character and powers. What was there to not "fall in line" and be "okie-dokie" with?[/QUOTE]
I mean if you thought it was a good book then hey by all means i can't change your mind. From my perspective though compared to yours is the complete opposite and the only things showcased was impatience, unneeded angst and drama that shouldn't have occurred in the first place, falling in line with the okie doke is pretty much what I've constantly been saying and was displayed in that book in the last few pages which in terms of storms character is unwanted unneeded animosity just for the sake of plot. But i'll leave it at that and take it however you want and if you don't then well (shrug) i said my peace.
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Very well. And most certainly.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5213059]@Mekk80s
Bruv...
I am a BP fan. I'm not a fan of Coates' writing...at all.
Storm is one of my absolute favourite X-characters.
As a comic-book fan in general, not specifically of one franchise and one character and a reader of quite some years, I can appreciate and understand when character stories/development don't go as intended, anticipated and expected. If I think it's written well...I am always happy and willing to "go with the flow".
For example...
I'm sure if they had depowered Storm today the resulting vitriol would have obliterated the internet. (I believe there was a great deal of fan disappointment back in the day to her going punk and losing her powers) But Claremont wrote her story so well that powerless Storm is and always will be iconic to me.
Fun, silly story speculations aside...I simply refuse to wallow in angst and disappointment on issues and character developments over which I have no control or personal stake other than my enjoyment. All that internalising/in between-the-lines/behind office doors stuff that you mention is, objectively, of no interest to me whatsoever. At the end of the day, I read these books and characters for enjoyment when I no longer feel the joy, I just set it aside and move on to something else (because X-Men aren't the only books I read nor is Storm the only character I love.)
All that just to say...I view this Storm/BP issue with healthy, if somewhat apathetic, detachment.[/QUOTE]
Preach! You say this way more diplomatic than i ever could. At the end of the day it isn't even about Storm it's about me and what i'm wiling to tolerate to enjoy the character and right now it's feeling real easy.
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[QUOTE=Devaishwarya;5213059]@Mekk80s
Bruv...
I am a BP fan. I'm not a fan of Coates' writing...at all.
Storm is one of my absolute favourite X-characters.
As a comic-book fan in general, not specifically of one franchise and one character and a reader of quite some years, I can appreciate and understand when character stories/development don't go as intended, anticipated and expected. If I think it's written well...I am always happy and willing to "go with the flow".
For example...
I'm sure if they had depowered Storm today the resulting vitriol would have obliterated the internet. (I believe there was a great deal of fan disappointment back in the day to her going punk and losing her powers) But Claremont wrote her story so well that powerless Storm is and always will be iconic to me.
Fun, silly story speculations aside...I simply refuse to wallow in angst and disappointment on issues and character developments over which I have no control or personal stake other than my enjoyment. All that internalising/in between-the-lines/behind office doors stuff that you mention is, objectively, of no interest to me whatsoever. At the end of the day, I read these books and characters for enjoyment when I no longer feel the joy, I just set it aside and move on to something else (because X-Men aren't the only books I read nor is Storm the only character I love.)
All that just to say...I view this Storm/BP issue with healthy, if somewhat apathetic, detachment.[/QUOTE]
This perfectly states my view point also. Well stated.
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Interested in Storm and Death's relationship and how they're encounter will play out...
Her death card kind of sounded like a ascension note to me?
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[QUOTE=Stormultt Divine;5214044]Interested in Storm and Death's relationship and how they're encounter will play out...
Her death card kind of sounded like a ascension note to me?[/QUOTE]
Err?!? I though Ororo had ascended already.