Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[QUOTE=Godlike13;4790314]Nightwing sales were declining more and more with them failing to find a replacement for Seeley, so a stunt wasn’t unwarranted. Problem lies with them putting the Bat lines lowest charting creators on the stunt, then letting things go on longer then Grayson despite it clearly not working and being widely rejected.

It makes no sense to think the guys on the books charting even lower then Nightwing were going to improve things. Thats just illogical. The only thing those creators manage to accomplish was to bring Nightwing closer in performance to RHatO and Batman Beyond. Which of course. That’s why they can’t seriously leave Jurgan’s on after Ric and expect a different result then.[/QUOTE]

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they kept Jurgens on "Nightwing" when they relaunch it. It doesn't make [I]sense[/I], but neither did keeping Abnett on "Titans" when they relaunched [I]that[/I] after "No Justice".

Oh, my ban is over. Getting banned over the Ric Grayson story is such a joke. First time I've ever been banned on an internet forum.

Here's an idea for a nightwing stunt. A-list talent on a run! every character in nightwing's sells tier has had it since the new 52 (tom king was a unknown).

All I know is if nightwing could get a Cybrog push he'd probably have a second book.

[QUOTE=WonderNight;4790405]Here's an idea for a nightwing stunt. A-list talent on a run! every character in nightwing's sells tier has had it since the new 52 (tom king was a unknown).

All I know is if nightwing could get a Cybrog push he'd probably have a second book.[/QUOTE]

The push that DC have Cyborg was a push in name only, writers never did anything interesting with him, kept rehashing old plot lines( am I a man or monster?, Daddy issues), have him a terrible supporting cast and a rogue gallery filled with robots.

The only difference between Cyborg's 'push' and Dick's current situation is that the Ric Grayson experiment is infinitely worse and has less random robot villains.

[QUOTE=WonderNight;4790405]Here's an idea for a nightwing stunt. A-list talent on a run! every character in nightwing's sells tier has had it since the new 52 (tom king was a unknown).

All I know is if nightwing could get a Cybrog push he'd probably have a second book.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and once they prove they're good on Dick, they're moved to Batman. Just like King.

[QUOTE=king81992;4790419]The push that DC have Cyborg was a push in name only, writers never did anything interesting with him, kept rehashing old plot lines( am I a man or monster?, Daddy issues), have him a terrible supporting cast and a rogue gallery filled with robots.

The only difference between Cyborg's 'push' and Dick's current situation is that the Ric Grayson experiment is infinitely worse and has less random robot villains.[/QUOTE]

Well, there's a difference between marketing and writing. The marketing wants Cyborg but the writer can't deliver.

The same thing can happen to the new Nightwing series.

I think the issue is that no big A-list creators are interested in using his character. It isn't even so much about putting a major talent on his solo book, but there isn't really any interest in using the character for any BIG DC stories. In continuity or out of continuity. Take Jason as an example. His solo book has remained unchanged, but you look at the list of creators that are interested in using him in their big stories has gone up regardless of what his solo is doing. You have Bendis that wanted to use Jason for his Leviathan event, you have Johns that has big plans for Jason in the Three Jokers story, and you have Tom Taylor using Jason at the forefront of his DCeased story.

Things like that are completely missing for Dick's character. Either these top creators aren't interested in using Dick, or DC is telling them no. I'd probably go with the former of the two. Even things like Sean Murphy's White Knight series where he was interested in doing a Joker and Harley story, or Stjepan Sejic doing his Harleen series, none of them are interested in doing one for Dick. I guess a few years ago Higgins did his Nightwing New Order mini series, but he wasn't exactly a big name creator and it didn't get much promotion. I wonder if DC looks at that Higgins mini and seeing it not do that well in sales made DC cool off with doing anything else like that for the character.

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4790474]Yeah, and once they prove they're good on Dick, they're moved to Batman. Just like King.

[/QUOTE]To be fair, King was co-writing Grayson with Seeley - who wrote Nightwing Rebirth. Because of that, I don't understand why they needed a fill-in writer for the last couple of Grayson issues - what was stopping Seeley doing them?

[QUOTE=Badou;4790479]I think the issue is that no big A-list creators are interested in using his character. It isn't even so much about putting a major talent on his solo book, but there isn't really any interest in using the character for any BIG DC stories. In continuity or out of continuity. Take Jason as an example. His solo book has remained unchanged, but you look at the list of creators that are interested in using him in their big stories has gone up regardless of what his solo is doing. You have Bendis that wanted to use Jason for his Leviathan event, you have Johns that has big plans for Jason in the Three Jokers story, and you have Tom Taylor using Jason at the forefront of his DCeased story.

Things like that are completely missing for Dick's character. Either these top creators aren't interested in using Dick, or DC is telling them no. I'd probably go with the former of the two. Even things like Sean Murphy's White Knight series where he was interested in doing a Joker and Harley story, or Stjepan Sejic doing his Harleen series, none of them are interested in doing one for Dick. I guess a few years ago Higgins did his Nightwing New Order mini series, but he wasn't exactly a big name creator and it didn't get much promotion. I wonder if DC looks at that Higgins mini and seeing it not do that well in sales made DC cool off with doing anything else like that for the character.[/QUOTE]

So in your opinion why are so many creator's not interested in Dick. Is it because he's to similar to batman and robin or all he has of value as a solo character comes from batman.

I mean in a way isn't that a good thing to have creators take him? Dick has his own things. You can separate him from Batman but not from his circus life.

[QUOTE=Digifiend;4790538]To be fair, King was co-writing Grayson with Seeley - who wrote Nightwing Rebirth. Because of that, I don't understand why they needed a fill-in writer for the last couple of Grayson issues - what was stopping Seeley doing them?[/QUOTE]

Nightwing Rebirth. They wanted the writers on the bimonthlies to have issues written in advance to avoid any delays.

[QUOTE=WonderNight;4790559]So in your opinion why are so many creator's not interested in Dick. Is it because he's to similar to batman and robin or all he has of value as a solo character comes from batman.[/QUOTE]

It's the Superman problem without the Super. Dick is a well adjusted nice character with no obvious inner or outer conflict.

Darker characters like Batman, Jason and Damian are considered easier to write because they have flaws and conflict, in and out, that they can exploit for a story.

He's not dark or angsty, but he's not a fool or goofy either, so you can't make a story based on his flaws nor his inexperience.

In Grayson you can, because he's never been in a spy world, but even then they downplay his intelligence so he can't figure out what the spies are planning. His enthusiasm is lowered, so he's more passive in solving the case Batman tasked him to do.

In Humphries' story, he made him don't want to ask for help, even though Nightwing's known to be open and connected, so the story can go the way it was

Then in Percy's he suddenly hates technology

Even with Seeley, he accepts offers from villains, gets sucker punched, or loses a fight against his equal or lower tier character, except that time in the villain's party sub.

Higgins is like that too. Made him loses fight against B villains and make angst by burning Haly's Circus and killing his named supporting cast.

So his writers have to make up flaws for him to make his story work

I think it was Priest who said that Dick is a boring character because he's too perfect or that he should have a better story?

Metatextually, his brand name isn't as big as Superman, Batman, Robin, Batgirl, Wonder Woman, and so on, so if a writer is offered a higher brand character, they'll take it.

His character bounces well against dark characters like Batman, Midnighter, Tiger, Huntress, Jason, and Damian, but most of them already have a book. He's a good big brother, but most of his little siblings are being used in other books.

Which kinda makes me wonder why they don't make rival and little siblings characters... well, Seeley did in Raptor and The Run-Offs... I guess that's why he's one of the best.

Other than that, writers like King, Johns, and Snyder prefer to make him the counselor/confidant where he's often depicted as the better person to the main character their writing, Batman, but also an object of affection and therefore victim.

[QUOTE=WonderNight;4790559]So in your opinion why are so many creator's not interested in Dick. Is it because he's to similar to batman and robin or all he has of value as a solo character comes from batman.[/QUOTE]

Batman is probably the main reason. Writers would much rather write Batman than Nightwing. That is who they aspire to write and actively pursue, which is just stating the obvious and you can't blame them for it. It's Batman. Nightwing is just kind of stuck in a position where in their eyes he doesn't really offer up a lot of uniqueness to make them interested in using him over a Batman, or even over a Damian or a Jason for certain stories. It is why when big writers use Nightwing now it is only to push some Batman story along where Dick's role is limited.

A Red Hood is far enough removed from Batman and Nightwing that he probably appeals more to writers right now. Since you get the dynamic of him being a former Robin and this complicated relationship with Bruce, but at the same time he can fall into a hero or anti-hero category, uses guns, and has connections to these other villains like a Joker or a Talia Dick doesn't have. Same with Damian being Bruce's actual son, the active Robin (which is the bigger brand over Nightwing), and also falls into more gray area. Nightwing right now as a character lacks utility.

So Nightwing just comes across as redundant when Batman is there. Plenty of writers could have done more with Nightwing's character when they used him, but just had no interest. The entire Ric story is actually a microcosm of everything that is wrong with the character currently. If you read those old Lobdell or Jurgens interviews about the Ric story they go on about how it is designed to show Dick as a character finally without the influence of Batman. Dick completely on his own, but they both failed completely at showing any aspect of that. Immediately they fell into the same old stories and tropes that would happen regardless if the Ric story was going on or not. It shows you how DC and its creators view the character of Dick Grayson currently and it is devoid of anything actually unique or interesting, sadly. So how can you expect creators to be interested in writing the character when the ones actually writing him aren't even interested themselves?

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4790654]It's the Superman problem without the Super. Dick is a well adjusted nice character with no obvious inner or outer conflict.

Darker characters like Batman, Jason and Damian are considered easier to write because they have flaws and conflict, in and out, that they can exploit for a story.

He's not dark or angsty, but he's not a fool or goofy either, so you can't make a story based on his flaws nor his inexperience.

In Grayson you can, because he's never been in a spy world, but even then they downplay his intelligence so he can't figure out what the spies are planning. His enthusiasm is lowered, so he's more passive in solving the case Batman tasked him to do.

In Humphries' story, he made him don't want to ask for help, even though Nightwing's known to be open and connected, so the story can go the way it was

Then in Percy's he suddenly hates technology

Even with Seeley, he accepts offers from villains, gets sucker punched, or loses a fight against his equal or lower tier character, except that time in the villain's party sub.

Higgins is like that too. Made him loses fight against B villains and make angst by burning Haly's Circus and killing his named supporting cast.

So his writers have to make up flaws for him to make his story work

I think it was Priest who said that Dick is a boring character because he's too perfect or that he should have a better story?

Metatextually, his brand name isn't as big as Superman, Batman, Robin, Batgirl, Wonder Woman, and so on, so if a writer is offered a higher brand character, they'll take it.

His character bounces well against dark characters like Batman, Midnighter, Tiger, Huntress, Jason, and Damian, but most of them already have a book. He's a good big brother, but most of his little siblings are being used in other books.

Which kinda makes me wonder why they don't make rival and little siblings characters... well, Seeley did in Raptor and The Run-Offs... I guess that's why he's one of the best.

Other than that, writers like King, Johns, and Snyder prefer to make him the counselor/confidant where he's often depicted as the better person to the main character their writing, Batman, but also an object of affection and therefore victim.[/QUOTE]

I agree with a lot of this. The thing that makes Dick unique, in that he is a well adjusted person and hero, makes writers less interested in him. It is a double edge sword. I love that aspect of his character, but nearly every big writer has no interested in it unfortunately. Even though there is an endless number of manga series that show you can have a well adjusted hero and still tell unique stories.

Just those other options offer more utility for stories in their eyes. It is why a Priest wants to probably completely tear down Dick's character and make him more angsty. Turn him into a darker character that he is actually interested in writing. Since he views that Dick should resent Bruce more and was raised in an abusive relationship with him training him to be a child solider.

Lobdell and Jurgan’s are old school. They are conditioned to churn out factory like, trope heavy, quick to make stories. A typical issue from them goes like this, recap, padding, then what’s on the cover. Rinse and repeat. Red Hood is in the same situation as Dick. His purpose these days is to just facilitate Lobdell. While every once in a while another writer might come around a put him in a Batman story or have him pop up in an event, it’s never at the center. Much like Nightwing was often used. Be it FE or what have you.
And the thing is, I’m pretty sure writers are told no. Remember the Earth squad of Nightwing and Waller in No Justice, or how Dick was going to pop up in Action prior to Leviathan. Which bare in mind was saturated with Grayson lore. Regardless if creators want to use Dick now, for the past 2 years Dick has been untouchable. Even if anyone wanted to go near Ric, which most relevant creators probably don’t, he is off the table. Ric has oddly been protected.

At the same time though, mediocrity breeds disinterest. No one is interested in Dick right now. Not even fans, so why would creators be. It’s DC job is to make their characters interesting and appealing to audiences. But they are not interested in doing that, clearly, what they are interested in is having books for creators they like to be able to get some work with.

By the way

We're not getting Nicola Scott's ass-first cover as a variant in the Robin 80th book, aren't we?

I'm inclined to believe that DC is saying no, more than creators not asking at all. As Godlike said, Dick was supposed to be a big part of No Justice, but somewhere between concept and final product, that got changed. Bendis wanted to use Dick in Event Leviathan and couldn't. And I want to say that Snyder has said Dick is one of his favorite characters, but got a bigger fish with Batman.

It's also true that Dick is a whole lot like Batman, only without as much angst and brooding and inner conflict....but that's entirely on how DC has allowed him to be used since Dick returned from the Titans office. At one point Dick was like a Bat living in a Super world and he wasn't just doing standard street vigilante stuff. But DC seems to still be intent on downplaying that element of Dick's character, even though a powerless vigilante going up against big superhuman threats is a fairly unique niche that, as far as I know, no one else in DC is really filling.

I also dont think the "too much like Batman" thing really justifies the extent of what we've seen the last few years. If writers didn't want to write Nightwing because he's so much like Batman, then why do they want to write Arrow? There's a lot of characters in DC that overlap each other a lot, I don't think the similarities between Dick and Bruce are that different.

What do you guys think about this

[url]https://www.cbr.com/nightwing-finally-lost-ric-grayson/[/url]

I hope this means we will finally be getting more Nightwing stories sooner than we think

Yeah, it's all but over. The current storyline seems to be ending in April, he's back in costume in the annual solicit for that month.

But even before the Ric story Dick was completely irrelevant to the greater DCU. No big writer was interested in using his character in anything. So I don't think this Ric story suddenly caused all these writers to lose interest in him or prevent them from using him as none were interested in using him before this. That No Justice story I think Snyder just made a mistake when he was speaking and he meant that Green Arrow and Waller would be the active ones on Earth still and not Nightwing. I don't think it is more complicated than that.

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4791184]What do you guys think about this

[url]https://www.cbr.com/nightwing-finally-lost-ric-grayson/[/url]

I hope this means we will finally be getting more Nightwing stories sooner than we think[/QUOTE]

He is still in his Ric costume with the mud on his face in the April Nightwing issue for whatever Tynion's Joker story is going to be. The solicit still refers to him as Ric too. The Annual could take place before the Ric story happens for all we know. All this did was prove how pointless the Owls and Talon story was. Retconning it as it being the Owls responsible for everything to cause Ric lead to nothing in the end. They go through so much trouble to set up this entire Ric plot to get him but Dick defeats them and their plot in such an easy way that it is laughable. Dick takes off those special goggles and he suddenly has his memories back, and the Owls basically throw their hands up and give up. They go through so much trouble and they fail to kill any named character even. It was such a poorly thought out story.

He also still has his Ric memories the Owls apparently gave him and is going to continue to go by Ric, continue to wear exactly what Ric wears, and interact with all the Ric characters. You could completely erase the Owls and Talon story from the entire Ric saga and just have Ric regain his Dick Grayson memories when he is confronted by the Joker in the new arc and it would have the exact same effect.

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4791184]What do you guys think about this

[url]https://www.cbr.com/nightwing-finally-lost-ric-grayson/[/url]

I hope this means we will finally be getting more Nightwing stories sooner than we think[/QUOTE]

I think we will see what happens. We've thought the Ric saga was close to ending before and were wrong. We've heard about the plans DC has for the character that never materialized (like his role in No Justice). So I don't put much stock in solicits or interviews. I'll judge what makes its way to the page when the book hits.

From the sounds of it, DC might be taking this opportunity to tweak Dick again as well. If he's trying to figure out and balance "Ric" against "Dick" then we may not end up with a Dick Grayson that is much more recognizable than what we have now. Different from Ric perhaps, but not necessarily Dick Grayson as we'd recognize him. Which may or may not be a bad thing (the Grayson series was a big change too), we won't know until we read it.

Or we might get Dick back at last, and the fandom will rejoice and sing....and still be worried about DC giving us crap quality.

I wonder if we had to deal with Ric. What storyline would have worked?

[QUOTE=Ascended;4791044]

I also dont think the "too much like Batman" thing really justifies the extent of what we've seen the last few years. If writers didn't want to write Nightwing because he's so much like Batman, then why do they want to write Arrow? There's a lot of characters in DC that overlap each other a lot, I don't think the similarities between Dick and Bruce are that different.[/QUOTE]It's not a problem for green arrow or some others because there not apart of the same franchise or mythos or city and is the lead of there own brand.

Nightwing is under the batman brand so the similarities are going to alot more direct and add to that batman is the lead and nightwing isn't, he ends up coming across as side character.

If nightwing was his own lead or apart of a franchise that didn't already have the bigger ip of batman there the similarities between the two wouldn't be as big a problem.

He has the Titans franchise. But the comic side isn't anymore interested in investing more in Titans then they are Nightwing. Generally though they play into the similarities so they can more easily produce quick material.

At the end of the day if they can't find creators, they are doing something wrong. They can find ways to make the situation more attractive. That's part of editorials job. They thought Ric would be a situation that would attract readers and creators alike. They were wrong. But instead of taking that as a hint, they doubled down and just passed it to resident yes men.

[QUOTE=Badou;4791414]He also still has his Ric memories the Owls apparently gave him and is going to continue to go by Ric, continue to wear exactly what Ric wears, and interact with all the Ric characters. You could completely erase the Owls and Talon story from the entire Ric saga and just have Ric regain his Dick Grayson memories when he is confronted by the Joker in the new arc and it would have the exact same effect.[/QUOTE]Not for long. March's solicit indicates that Joker's going to take the four fake Nightwings off the board.

[QUOTE=WonderNight;4791701]It's not a problem for green arrow or some others because there not apart of the same franchise or mythos or city and is the lead of there own brand.

Nightwing is under the batman brand so the similarities are going to alot more direct and add to that batman is the lead and nightwing isn't, he ends up coming across as side character.

If nightwing was his own lead or apart of a franchise that didn't already have the bigger ip of batman there the similarities between the two wouldn't be as big a problem.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I know. I've been yelling for DC to put Dick under different editorial for years. You're not wrong, being part of the Bat brand makes the similarities more striking. But at the same time, we've seen with books like Gotham Central and Red Hood and Azreal (90's version) and plenty of others that you can be part of the Bat world and be under the Bat umbrella without being Bat lite.

Sometimes I think DC believes that Dick is the heir apparent of Batman, and as such has to be as much like Batman as possible. But if they let Dick be more himself, even a little bit, I think the differences would outweigh any similarities to the point the comparisons wouldn't matter. Hell, even putting Dick in some fun Silver Age Batman style adventures, yknow, back when Bats was *fun* would keep him under the Bat umbrella but let him stand apart.

Seriously, just take that Batman Brave & the Bold cartoon, recycle the scripts and replace Bruce with Dick and you've got a quality seller. It's that f**kin' easy. :p

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4791184]What do you guys think about this

[url]https://www.cbr.com/nightwing-finally-lost-ric-grayson/[/url]

I hope this means we will finally be getting more Nightwing stories sooner than we think[/QUOTE]
[quote]Still, Ric has finally gotten his happy ending, closure on the Court of Owls, and the means to reclaim his past life if he so chooses eventually. And [b]with fan response on the Ric Grayson persona decidedly mixed[/b], the full return of Dick Grayson and Nightwing can't come soon enough.[/quote]

mixed response? please show me ANY positive reaction to this storyline. It has been overwhelmingly negative on every single front.

[QUOTE=Digifiend;4791785]Not for long. March's solicit indicates that Joker's going to take the four fake Nightwings off the board.[/QUOTE]

They have already done two arcs of the exact same set up. Dragging in some Gotham villain to Bludhaven to beat up the fake Nightwings. They had Scarecrow come to Bludhaven to beat up the fake Nightwings and challenge Ric. Then they later had Talon come to Bludhaven to beat up the fake Nightwings and challenge Ric. Now the Joker is going to come to Bludhaven to beat up the fake Nightwings and challenge Ric. It is so repetitive and frustrating. Maybe if we are lucky the Joker will kill off the fake Nightwings and Bea, but if those other two didn't I don't really expect or care at this point if the Joker does. For over a year now they have been dragging out Dick getting his memories back because they have no other story around Ric to tell. So they are having to continue to streeeeeeeeech out this one and only thing they did with the entire Ric story. The book and character is basically on hold until 5G before we can get some new and possibly interesting stories.

I mean they could have just had Dick fully return after this Talon story. Then we could have gotten 6 months or so of new stories about Dick learning about and understanding all the major things he missed. From who I guess is his best friend in Wally killing a bunch of heroes, trying to kill himself, going to prison, and then disappearing, heroes like Roy being one of those that died, Gotham City being taken over by Bane and Bruce's dad and put into chaos, Alfred being killed and Damian having to witness it, Luthor sending the world into chaos and having characters like Donna again turn evil, and so on. They could have even had Dick go find KGBeast and confront him instead of Barbara doing that in her book to bring this whole mess full circle, but all of that requires effort and no one is willing to put that into the Nightwing book.

Also you have the whole issue of why does the Joker even care about Ric in Bludhaven? He has zero motivation to go after Ric other than Tynion needs a hook for his Summer Joker story so they are dragging in Dick/Ric for that I guess. This also confirms the Joker knows Dick is Ric and that Dick is Nightwing too? This whole story doesn't really make sense to me as Dick is already cut off from Bruce so the Joker doesn't need to isolate Batman from his allies, but then does that mean the Joker is going to drag in Dick to taunt Batman? Which has zero appeal to me.

Dick got shot in the head to taunt Batman and now he'll getkidnapped by Joker to taunt Batman...again.

[QUOTE=Ascended;4791796]Oh, I know. I've been yelling for DC to put Dick under different editorial for years. You're not wrong, being part of the Bat brand makes the similarities more striking. But at the same time, we've seen with books like Gotham Central and Red Hood and Azreal (90's version) and plenty of others that you can be part of the Bat world and be under the Bat umbrella without being Bat lite.

Sometimes I think DC believes that Dick is the heir apparent of Batman, and as such has to be as much like Batman as possible. But if they let Dick be more himself, even a little bit, I think the differences would outweigh any similarities to the point the comparisons wouldn't matter. Hell, even putting Dick in some fun Silver Age Batman style adventures, yknow, back when Bats was *fun* would keep him under the Bat umbrella but let him stand apart.

Seriously, just take that Batman Brave & the Bold cartoon, recycle the scripts and replace Bruce with Dick and you've got a quality seller. It's that f**kin' easy. :p[/QUOTE]

I was reading some back issues the other day and this same line of thought came to me. If Dick has to be an echo of Batman, then it should be silver age Batman. Fun, outlandish, and definitely not street level. I think the Spyral stuff and some elements of Morrison and Seeley captured this side of Dick the best.

Is the Ric Grayson stuff every gonna end?

[QUOTE=Valentonis;4791936]I was reading some back issues the other day and this same line of thought came to me. If Dick has to be an echo of Batman, then it should be silver age Batman. Fun, outlandish, and definitely not street level. I think the Spyral stuff and some elements of Morrison and Seeley captured this side of Dick the best.[/QUOTE]

Right?

How many books are like that right now? Not very many. Could be lots of fun.

All we know it’s going to end this year. I mean who should Dick be with? I mean would Superman’s editorial office be any better?

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4792369]All we know it’s going to end this year. I mean who should Dick be with? I mean would Superman’s editorial office be any better?[/QUOTE]

Honestly I don't know. Damian [I think Jason might be a well] is under the Superman office. He hasn't had a bad time like Dick but it didn't stop the Bat Books using him as a device as and when needed.

The most important thing is there being a clear plan for the characters future. Management keeping an eye on how he is used.

Example Damian was placed off limits making him unavailable for some stories. The reason. Danger of over exposure. That is good since someone was mentoring.

The bad. Priest's 1st draft of lazarus Contract was rejected because the Damian was m,ore like Priest's regular Damian but editorial deemed him too soft leading to a re-write and we all know how that version acts in comparison to the Damian in Deathstroke.

So there's good and bad but at least someone in that office was watching what was being done with the character. Dick Grayson it doesn't feel like anyone is watching/checking what's being done.

The Nightwing


[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOsBvJoXsAApwoX?format=jpg&name=small[/IMG]


[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOsBvNyW4AUJP6M?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]


[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOsBvNcXUAAf3v5?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG]


[url]https://twitter.com/ArtofNickRobles[/url]

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4792369]All we know it’s going to end this year. I mean who should Dick be with? I mean would Superman’s editorial office be any better?[/QUOTE]

I'm with dietrich; there's pro's and con's to Dick moving offices. I personally think the pro's would outweigh the con's, but that's just an assumption.

I do think, right this very moment, it could be a good thing for Dick. Bendis is driving the Super bus these days, and Dick is a character right up his alley and in his sweet spot as a creator. I'm sure Bendis wouldn't mind getting his hands on a character like Dick, if only to provide something different from what he's doing in the main DCU right now, where he's dealing with not just super powered people, but people on the very upper end of the scale.

It also puts Dick under the creative control of a writer with enough pull to do what he wants. So if Dick really is getting sabotaged by upper management, Bendis provides a lot of protection Dick doesn't have right now.

I'd be interested in seeing Dick switch offices, but I don't know if we'd actually be better off. I doubt we'd be any worse though, so it's a risk I'd be willing to take.

Heh. Comichron December sale is up. Nightwing, I mean Ric, hits a new low of 19,000something

They held up better, for far longer, than they had any right to. I applaud our fellow fans for sticking with such an awful book and direction, even though that loyalty meant DC could drag this out much longer than they should have without being penalized for it.

But for reals, next time something like this happens guys, just drop the book quickly. :p

Nightwing is a ip that’s been around. Shops will order a set amount just for the selves.

That's a good point.

Ah Remember when Dick was the face of DC's espionage corner and we had Grayson, Midnighter and Suicide Squad together? It was like dick was the head of his own family of books for a second.

Good times.