tbf, I wasn't happy with giving "cass's" ability to Dick at all. It just felt like a cheap make up call for giving so much of Dick's backstory and relationships to Tim and Jason.
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tbf, I wasn't happy with giving "cass's" ability to Dick at all. It just felt like a cheap make up call for giving so much of Dick's backstory and relationships to Tim and Jason.
I really feel the Batfam is way too big. I also feel due to Dick’s time and his own turn with the Titans. He should be the best fighter on Batfam. That they just want Dick to look bad like they always do
I’d rather Dick had more good fights, more so then be the best fighter. Give me memorable fight scenes over karate chopping Shiva or what have you.
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;5152197]It’s just a matter of time if Tim does not find his own identity. Their gonna realize a third white Robin is not necessary. Duke should be transitioning soon.[/QUOTE]No he shouldn't. He started in We Are Robin, leading a gang of unofficial Robins. When he officially joined the Bat family, he decided he should have a unique identity instead, and became The Signal. Becoming a Robin would be a backward step for him.
I think Snyder wanted Duke to be Robin, but he just couldn't do it because of Damian. I feel like there was a flashforward in his run where Duke was shown as Robin, or maybe it was another black Robin. I know in that Future's End story he was Robin there. It's just I don't think the Signal is ever going to catch on with how crowded the Batman family and DC's collection of young heroes are now. There is just no room for him and with long form superhero comics being even more niche than ever before I don't know if there is an audience to support him enough to keep him around. It really feels like DC stretched the Robin identity out too much and now these group of characters are kind of cannibalizing each other for pieces of history, stories and relevance where it gets frustrating for their fans.
We've been seeing Tim struggle to find an identity and direction after moving on from Robin for a decade now. It's been a mess in my opinion. Having him lead young hero teams is the only thing that has been keeping him around it feels like, but none of those teams have been that successful. The recent Young Justice book that got a big push completely flopped. I have been wondering if DC will pull a Wally West or a Helena Bertinelli and just race swap Tim to be black to fill that black hero role DC desperately wants in Gotham, but doing that would pretty much mean the death of characters like Duke probably. Which goes back to my point about how these characters are cannibalizing each other.
I really just wonder what these kind of comics will be like 5-10 years from now. I get that creators will still want to create new characters because it is better for them financially to do so, it is one reason why you are seeing Tynion create a bunch of new characters in his run, but it feels like we are already at the breaking point with how many characters these kind of comics can realistically support.
[QUOTE=Badou;5153309]I think Snyder wanted Duke to be Robin, but he just couldn't do it because of Damian. I feel like there was a flashforward in his run where Duke was shown as Robin, or maybe it was another black Robin. I know in that Future's End story he was Robin there. It's just I don't think the Signal is ever going to catch on with how crowded the Batman family and DC's collection of young heroes are now. There is just no room for him and with long form superhero comics being even more niche than ever before I don't know if there is an audience to support him enough to keep him around. It really feels like DC stretched the Robin identity out too much and now these group of characters are kind of cannibalizing each other for pieces of history, stories and relevance where it gets frustrating for their fans.
We've been seeing Tim struggle to find an identity and direction after moving on from Robin for a decade now. It's been a mess in my opinion. Having him lead young hero teams is the only thing that has been keeping him around it feels like, but none of those teams have been that successful. The recent Young Justice book that got a big push completely flopped. I have been wondering if DC will pull a Wally West or a Helena Bertinelli and just race swap Tim to be black to fill that black hero role DC desperately wants in Gotham, but doing that would pretty much mean the death of characters like Duke probably. Which goes back to my point about how these characters are cannibalizing each other.
I really just wonder what these kind of comics will be like 5-10 years from now. I get that creators will still want to create new characters because it is better for them financially to do so, it is one reason why you are seeing Tynion create a bunch of new characters in his run, but it feels like we are already at the breaking point with how many characters these kind of comics can realistically support.[/QUOTE]
His first black Robin was right before he created Duke.
Duke already caught on with fandom but the number of fans has only been enough to support a mini and an ensemble title.
The rest of the fans that want to support him already have their own faves before Duke and not enough money, not to mention we each got our own specific beef with DC with how our main faves are treated so automatically they're gonna take priority
Right now he's still better than most because the creator and his friends want to support him so he'll keep coming back in one-shots, minis, or team books to keep, hopefully, attracting new audience
[QUOTE=Digifiend;5153230]No he shouldn't. He started in We Are Robin, leading a gang of unofficial Robins. When he officially joined the Bat family, he decided he should have a unique identity instead, and became The Signal. Becoming a Robin would be a backward step for him.[/QUOTE]
It’s just inevitable
I just re-read some of the pre-N52 Nightwing Issues, and the Justice Society helping Dick move from New York back to Gotham has always stuck with me because it's such a nice addition.
So, I was wondering if there are any other Issue in which Dick interacts with them in New Earth continuity?
I'd be surprised if not, because the 1999 Titans team had a future JSAer in the roster. The Society should be linked to Nightwing through Jesse Quick.
Ah, thank you. That's a starting point that's already paid off. :D
I'm curious if NIghwing were to get a team-up book who would you want to see? I would like to see some lesser-known heroes. I would love to see Diana and Dick team up they don't get many scenes together.
Dick and Diana are my 2 favs so I'd love for them to team up alot more. Also more superman would be great also.but there's so many character's dick could have team ups with like wally and cyborg or characters who are stuck in limbo like vixen or vibe.
I still believe the Nightwing solo should be about dick's adventures across the dcu with regular team ups with others heroes.
Diana and Dick would be cool. I think writers wouldn't try to make one of them better than the other and I think they could easily go into a spy angle with them again.
Midnighter and Nightwing would be great to. I enjoyed their "Nemesister" angle and I liked what Orlando did with their friendship in Midnighter.
Nightwing and Robin (Damian, of course), which is a no-brainer to a lot of people, I think. (btw... Dick still hasn't been introduced to Jon, right?)
Nightwing and Batman. Yes, yes I'm going there. I think interactions between them are great. Gotham Nights #5 made me aware of that recently again. I just miss stories that have them teaming up, also Batman Crossovers could be dumped into a team book instead of interfering with a Nightwing mainbook.
More Deadman and Nightwing please.
[QUOTE=Avi;5161685]
Nightwing and Batman. Yes, yes I'm going there. I think interactions between them are great. Gotham Nights #5 made me aware of that recently again. I just miss stories that have them teaming up, also Batman Crossovers could be dumped into a team book instead of interfering with a Nightwing mainbook.[/QUOTE]
That's a very good point, especially about crossovers. Dick and Bruce have a very strong bond and a long history, and they absolutely should hang out - the problem is that a Dick solo isn't a great place for that.
(Also, historically, Bruce's impact has often been felt in a negative way and in his absence from the page.)
Call it The Dynamic Duo, and make it the book for the bigger, more colourful Batman Universe style adventures.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5162006]More Deadman and Nightwing please.[/QUOTE]
I really love the idea that even in death, Boston can't figure out how to do the quadruple somersault. He'd possess Dick to rehearse it and get it down and even then he just won't be able to. "Son of a bitch makes this look so damn easy! WHY!"
And then they bond over funnel cake.
I'm partial to launching a new volume of Brave and the Bold with Nightwing as the anchor, so lots of team-ups!
Some basic, obvious ones: Tim, Oracle, Starfire, (bonus points if neither really play into the ship), Damien, Wally and Donna
But some fun other ones would be: Power Girl, Superman, Black Lightning, Deadman, Zatanna, Constantine (they would haaaate each other), Green Arrow and Black Canary.
And because Dick is so well-connected, I'd do a begrudging villain team-up with one of the less heinous ones, like a Flash rogue or Giganta or something.
I'd bring Didio in to write Nightwing/Wally during their next bad future issue (because we know it's a matter of time) just for the pure schadenfreude. It would hurt me as much as anyone else, but knowing it's just some tongue-in-cheek disposable tie-in that means nothing I'd probably just enjoy it like popcorn during a bad movie.
[QUOTE=Avi;5161685]Nightwing and Batman. Yes, yes I'm going there. I think interactions between them are great. Gotham Nights #5 made me aware of that recently again. I just miss stories that have them teaming up, also Batman Crossovers could be dumped into a team book instead of interfering with a Nightwing mainbook.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for turning me on to this issue. That was fun. No over the top attempt to be a seminal work, just fun batman stuff. I'll pay it the highest compliment I can, it felt a bit like TAS to me (with a bit of '66 puns thrown in).
What about Dick and Zatanna? Or Dick and John Constantine. I would like Dick to have at least one mythical villain almost all heroes in Dc have on. In a sense, another Nightwing book could just be team-up books with many other superheroes.
Mythical villain for Dick... I only remember him fighting an Acheron demon once in New 52 and he acknowledged that this isn't really his field
His old series is grounded so he only fights mercenaries and mobs
Oh I want him to partner with Andrew Bennett, shirtless New 52 version, that will be so hot
I mean shouldn't we open his rogues to another type of villains? Which is why I kind of want him to have different team-ups. It allows him at least to know more about other ways. I mean if Bruce can fight the occult why not Dick? Maybe Dick and Plastic Man?
Wait how long has Dick not interacted with Cass or Stephanie
Young Master Richard reviewing case files after training
[IMG]https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5nef0Z8wv1qglciko1_500.png[/IMG]
[url]http://knightowls.tumblr.com[/url]
[QUOTE=dropkickjake;5164268]Thanks for turning me on to this issue. That was fun. No over the top attempt to be a seminal work, just fun batman stuff. I'll pay it the highest compliment I can, it felt a bit like TAS to me (with a bit of '66 puns thrown in).[/QUOTE]
Glad I could point you in the direction of the issue. It was a lot of fun to read. :D And, oof, I miss TAS. Just recently saw scans of some Comic Issues again. There is so much it just nails with the personalities of the characters alone imo.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5167206]Wait how long has Dick not interacted with Cass or Stephanie[/QUOTE]
Not since the Monster Men Crossover, I think? And there it wasn't that meaningful. I thought they might be going somewhere when they hinted at Dick training Steph in B&R:E but of course it was only a throwaway comment.
So yea a team up book could do Nightwing some good. It’s not just the Batfam but many different heroes. Anyone that he hasn’t been in touch with could almost work. I guess if we have to do who would be the first person. I would go with either Bruce or Wally first. I feel this woods help why Dc needs Nightwing. I mean all this talk about how Dc heroes care about Dick but we haven’t seen anything.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5167206]Wait how long has Dick not interacted with Cass or Stephanie[/QUOTE]He had never much interaction with them, even pre flashpoint.
I think even when Dick was Batman and Steph was Batgirl they didn't really interacted.
You can probably count the issues were Dick has actually spoken with Cass or Stephanie in pre flashpoint at one hand.
That would be a nice team up. Really a team up can easily help Dick interactive with heroes he doesn’t often to see much or rarely knows
[QUOTE=Aahz;5169057]He had never much interaction with them, even pre flashpoint.
I think even when Dick was Batman and Steph was Batgirl they didn't really interacted.
You can probably count the issues were Dick has actually spoken with Cass or Stephanie in pre flashpoint at one hand.[/QUOTE]
Probably not Steph, but he had a good relationship with Cass pre-flashpoint.
[QUOTE=Drako;5169129]Probably not Steph, but he had a good relationship with Cass pre-flashpoint.[/QUOTE]
Not so good after the events in OYL (even after it was established Cassandra was drugged).
I don't think Dick and Cassandra have much interaction when she was Batgirl.
[QUOTE=Drako;5169129]Probably not Steph, but he had a good relationship with Cass pre-flashpoint.[/QUOTE]Honestly the only time i can recall them interacting were when they were fighting after R.I.P..
I can remember Cass interacting with Barbara, Steph and Tim quite frequently but not with Dick (but maybe I have forgotten something).
Dick and Cass are key players in the Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive story, they do interact there. I imagine there's other instances but I haven't read much Batfam stuff outside of DickBats stories.
So, do we think we'll still get Snyder's Nightwing story? When was the last time he mentioned it?
On the one hand, it sounds like exactly the kind of project reports of the Big DC Shuffle would lead to cancelling - on the other, Snyder's pretty much the only writer in the DC stable who's name automatically translates to sales....
Cass also helped him with Deathstoke in his series, but honestly there isn’t much. I would not call their relationship good though. Between them hitting each other and the full on brawls. It was a weird relationship they had.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5169207]Cass also helped him with Deathstoke in his series, but honestly there isn’t much. I would not call their relationship good though. Between them hitting each other and the full on brawls. It was a weird relationship they had.[/QUOTE]
They fought sometimes, but you can find more instances of them being cool with each other. She even recall him making her laugh before going to bludhaven.
Maybe their relationship was worse after the Deathstroke stuff, but they were working fine together in Gates of Gotham.
[QUOTE=Claude;5169204]So, do we think we'll still get Snyder's Nightwing story? When was the last time he mentioned it?
On the one hand, it sounds like exactly the kind of project reports of the Big DC Shuffle would lead to cancelling - on the other, Snyder's pretty much the only writer in the DC stable who's name automatically translates to sales....[/QUOTE]
Snyder talked about a little bit in some interview last week, he is still doing it.
He also said he was never a fan of the Ric storyline.
[url]https://twitter.com/DCVILLAIN/status/1310381118445805568[/url]
[QUOTE=Claude;5169204]So, do we think we'll still get Snyder's Nightwing story? When was the last time he mentioned it?
On the one hand, it sounds like exactly the kind of project reports of the Big DC Shuffle would lead to cancelling - on the other, Snyder's pretty much the only writer in the DC stable who's name automatically translates to sales....[/QUOTE]
I think with DC's shift towards more digital, OGN, self contained stuff, Snyder's story has an even bigger chance of happening, and he's a big enough name he can likely still do whatever projects he wants anyway (to a large degree at least).
The big question in my mind isn't whether it'll still happen, but whether it'll still be a direct market mini or if it'll be a digital or OGN. Oh, and whether or not it'll be delayed while the rest of DC gets their ducks in a row.
Edit: whoops; just saw the tweet about him still doing it.
So maybe Ric story will be retcon
[QUOTE=Drako;5169713]They fought sometimes, but you can find more instances of them being cool with each other. She even recall him making her laugh before going to bludhaven.
Maybe their relationship was worse after the Deathstroke stuff, but they were working fine together in Gates of Gotham.
[/QUOTE]
I don't know if thats true. Its honestly like half and half. After the Deathstroke reveal it was all antagonistic from the Teen Titans knock out to the multiple fights right up until Reborn. Before that she beat him up when him and Babs broke up, and even after Flashpoint the first thing her character did on her return is attack him LoL. It actually kind of surprising how confrontational many of their interactions are.
Here is the interview where Wolfman spoke about the reasons for the change of identity to Nightwing:
[url]https://13thdimension.com/behind-the-mask-marv-wolfman-on-the-creation-of-nightwing/[/url]
It confirms that DC doesn't just want Dick/Robin be partner of Batman again, but they also want him to be younger. Wolfman doesn't want to lost Dick (and New Teen Titans sold more than Batman at that time), so Nightwing was the compromise.
I wonder what was the idea of DC at that time.
[QUOTE=Konja7;5170132]Here is the interview where Wolfman spoke about the reasons for the change of identity to Nightwing:
[url]https://13thdimension.com/behind-the-mask-marv-wolfman-on-the-creation-of-nightwing/[/url]
It confirms that DC doesn't just want Dick/Robin be partner of Batman again, but they also want him to be younger. Wolfman doesn't want to lost Dick (and New Teen Titans sold more than Batman at that time), so Nightwing was the compromise.
I wonder what was the idea of DC at that time.[/QUOTE]
" Again, because Batman really needed a partner."
"Teen Titans—which I was still on at the time—was way outselling Batman "
That's the idea. Robin Dick Grayson once doubled Batman sales, they want to do it again.
Dennis O'Neil returning Batman to his darker root apparently worked for a while in the 70s, but then maybe it got stale? Dick found success with Titans and DC thought... hey let's bring this gold-bringer boy back to Batman
[QUOTE=Drako;5169713]
Snyder talked about a little bit in some interview last week, he is still doing it.
He also said he was never a fan of the Ric storyline.
[url]https://twitter.com/DCVILLAIN/status/1310381118445805568[/url][/QUOTE]
Oh, cool - that's more definitive than I'd expected! Thanks a lot for that.
Fingers crossed that Snyder will be able to give us some good Dick Grayson content. It's great to know he is still working on it. I have to say, I had already given up hope.