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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4975869]How does Vixen fit in Nightwing's world?[/QUOTE]well vixen is one of the biggest and most famous models in world. Nightwing owning a entertainment business gives vixen a reason to stop by bludhaven everyonce in a while for fashion shows and team ups.
This helps both by giving vixen a place she can show up sometimes instead of set'in limbo for years not being used, bludhaven would feel like a more rich city and nightwing would feel more connected to the larger superhero community.
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[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4975880]
Zatanna in the comic canon was Bruce's childhood love interest. They're around the same age range. I'd personally avoid sharing women between father and son.[/QUOTE]
So dick and zatanna can't work together as business partners or heroes because of zatanna's relationship with Bruce? Dick and zee don't have to be a ship.
Zatanna would help bludhaven be a richer city that matters beyond nightwing live's there, like black lightning with metropolis a d helps keep it its vegas feel. Plus zatanna needs a place outside of JLD to get some spotlight, we barely get to see zatanna as a stage magician anymore.
As far as zatanna's age, well I do like zatanna's relationship with Bruce I'd prefer zatanna be deaged to her mid to late 20's. I believe zee as a character and performer works better in her 20's than her being close to menopause.
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[QUOTE=Godlike13;4976827]You guys are going to love this idea but honestly a Nightwing/Batgirl book might not be the worse idea. Both books numbers aren’t great, Ric and apathy have not been kind. So it’s not like a simple relaunch is going to re-attract general audiences at this point. Nightwing/Batgirl potentially pools their fan bases, is generally favorable, while also combines the work load for an office that struggles to find the work ethic or capacity to properly support multiple books.[/QUOTE]Sure just have him move back to Gotham and change his name to Batboy and we're good.
I'd just prefer a nightwing/Flash (wally) book.
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[QUOTE=WonderNight;4977081]So dick and zatanna can't work together as business partners or heroes because of zatanna's relationship with Bruce? Dick and zoe don't have to be a ship.
Zatanna would help bludhaven be a richer city that matters beyond nightwing live's there, like black lightning with metropolis a d helps keep it its vegas feel. Plus zatanna needs a place outside of JLD to get some spotlight, we barely get to see zatanna as a stage magician anymore.
As far as zatanna's age, well I do like zatanna's relationship with Bruce I'd prefer zatanna be deaged to her mid to late 20's. I believe zee as a character and performer works better in her 20's than her being close to menopause.[/QUOTE]
Wait I thought we're talking about ships. We're not?
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[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4977098]Wait I thought we're talking about ships. We're not?[/QUOTE]I love dick and zee as a ship but no this is not about a ship.
It's about characters benefiting though connections and a shared universe. So that characters like nightwing can have a richer world by having popular characters like zatanna or deadman as recurring cast both as civilians and heroes. It also helps characters like zatanna have more opportunities for development and appearances outside of just team book like JLD so they don't in up spending years in limbo like vixen, power girl and captain atom are right now.
Nightwing would get some popular characters as recurring cast for his solo, bludhaven would be a richer popular city and it'll be easier for bludhaven to maintain its Vegas feel with some popular characters that also has that vegas entertainment feel to them like zatanna a stage magician, vixen a fashion model and deadman a acorbat. It's not about shipping it's about world building.
Zatanna wouldn't have to go to limbo for years waiting for a new teambook every time JLD gets cancelled. Plus if zatanna ever get a new solo her home being bludhaven only makes bludhaven a richer city and nightwing's world feels bigger, richer and more connected to other heroes and the larger DCU.
We all know nightwing can't keep a civilian supporting cast to save his life and his connections and are in the hero community so play on it, and we also know character like zatanna needs development and stability outside of team books.
It's a win win, its characters world building together in a shared universe and being bigger than the some of there part's.
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[QUOTE=WonderNight;4977083]Sure just have him move back to Gotham and change his name to Batboy and we're good.
I'd just prefer a nightwing/Flash (wally) book.[/QUOTE]
He is basically already there. The Bat office isn’t letting go of Dick, they just aren’t. It’s a title they get to pad their line with and “pretend” to work on with seemingly no accountability or quality control. They basically have a book where they get paid to poop. Trying to figure out how to make Dick generally appealing again while tethered to a lazy Bat office is the character’s unfortunate reality.
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[QUOTE=Godlike13;4977166]He is basically already there. The Bat office isn’t letting go of Dick, they just aren’t. It’s a title they get to pad their line with and “pretend” to work on with seemingly no accountability or quality control. They basically have a book where they get paid to poop. Trying figure out how to make Dick generally appealing again while tethered to a lazy Bat office is the character’s unfortunate reality.[/QUOTE]With red hood getting cancelled I can see them cancelling nightwing moving him back to Gotham and throwing him into a ROBIN: the boy wonder's book with the other Robin's. Sad who far dick fallen.
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So, I dropped NW a good few issues before seely left and then got wind of Ric and some of the dialogues I saw was cringe so I didn't bother, have things gotten better or worse?
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[QUOTE=WonderNight;4977172]With red hood getting cancelled I can see them cancelling nightwing moving him back to Gotham and throwing him into a ROBIN: the boy wonder's book with the other Robin's. Sad who far dick fallen.[/QUOTE]
This ain’t happening
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[QUOTE=Godlike13;4976827]You guys are going to love this idea but honestly a Nightwing/Batgirl book might not be the worse idea. Both books numbers arenÂ’t great, Ric and apathy have not been kind. So itÂ’s not like a simple relaunch is going to re-attract general audiences at this point. Nightwing/Batgirl potentially pools their fan bases, is generally favorable, while also combines the work load for an office that struggles to find the work ethic or capacity to properly support multiple books.[/QUOTE]
As much as I dislike the Dick-Babs ship, I've actually considered that too (or a Dick-Damian book, or Dick-Tim, or Dick running the whole Gotham Knights crew, etc). But I don't know that it would work; pooling the fanbases is only viable if there's little overlap between them in the first place. Do most people who buy Nightwing (when it's good) also buy Batgirl (when it's good)? I've never seen market research on it but I'd assume the fanbases are largely the same, so a co-lead title isn't likely to sell much better than the solo's.
Would a simple relaunch be able to get the sales numbers back up on Nightwing? Who knows? But wingnuts are a passionate and loyal fanbase; I mean look at how long it took for the sales on Ric to finally start falling. I'd bet that if you put Dick back in proper shape with a fairly respectable creative team and a shiny new #1 on the cover, sales will start to recover relatively fast. Might take some time for them to get back to their old heights, but I don't think it would take long for sales to start the recovery process.
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[QUOTE=yash;4977291]So, I dropped NW a good few issues before seely left and then got wind of Ric and some of the dialogues I saw was cringe so I didn't bother, have things gotten better or worse?[/QUOTE]
I skim from time to time but I don’t put a penny toward this book. It’s wack. A lot of it feels like filler, and at this point I’m dying for it to just be over. It was a mistake and it’s like they just kept adding fuel to the fire. This has been an absolutely tragic time for Nightwing fans honestly. I miss having Dick Grayson in my books, it really feels like the last few writers that have handled him just don’t understand him.
Anyway, I don’t recommend this saga. In about 6 months we’ll see where things are headed
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[QUOTE=Ascended;4977339]As much as I dislike the Dick-Babs ship, I've actually considered that too (or a Dick-Damian book, or Dick-Tim, or Dick running the whole Gotham Knights crew, etc). But I don't know that it would work; pooling the fanbases is only viable if there's little overlap between them in the first place. Do most people who buy Nightwing (when it's good) also buy Batgirl (when it's good)? I've never seen market research on it but I'd assume the fanbases are largely the same, so a co-lead title isn't likely to sell much better than the solo's.
[/QUOTE]
It's been mentioned before, and seems to have come up on Twitter more recently, that Seeley and King pitched a "Nightwing And Batgirl" series, but DC didn't take them up on it.
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[QUOTE=WonderNight;4977081]So dick and zatanna can't work together as business partners or heroes because of zatanna's relationship with Bruce? Dick and zee don't have to be a ship.
Zatanna would help bludhaven be a richer city that matters beyond nightwing live's there, like black lightning with metropolis a d helps keep it its vegas feel. Plus zatanna needs a place outside of JLD to get some spotlight, we barely get to see zatanna as a stage magician anymore.
As far as zatanna's age, well I do like zatanna's relationship with Bruce I'd prefer zatanna be deaged to her mid to late 20's. I believe zee as a character and performer works better in her 20's than her being close to menopause.[/QUOTE]
God. You are giving me nightmares when Kyle Rayner said Zatanna was old enough to be her mother. That was sad.
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What about weird character paring? Like Katana and Dick? I so dar aother pairing is Power Girl.
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[QUOTE=WonderNight;4977081]So dick and zatanna can't work together as business partners or heroes because of zatanna's relationship with Bruce? Dick and zee don't have to be a ship.
Zatanna would help bludhaven be a richer city that matters beyond nightwing live's there, like black lightning with metropolis a d helps keep it its vegas feel. Plus zatanna needs a place outside of JLD to get some spotlight, we barely get to see zatanna as a stage magician anymore.
As far as zatanna's age, well I do like zatanna's relationship with Bruce I'd prefer zatanna be deaged to her mid to late 20's. I believe zee as a character and performer works better in her 20's than her being close to menopause.[/QUOTE]
I think one way a de-aged Zatanna would mix well in Dick's world would be if her father performed in Haly's circus for a few years when both Dick and Zatanna were young and the two were childhood friends.
