[QUOTE=Vordan;5263140]I expect he’ll be on JL[/QUOTE]
It's not. He said himself he was only on the book for death metal and the future state issues. [url]https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/status/1329815217048489986[/url]
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[QUOTE=Vordan;5263140]I expect he’ll be on JL[/QUOTE]
It's not. He said himself he was only on the book for death metal and the future state issues. [url]https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/status/1329815217048489986[/url]
[QUOTE=Ascended;5263010]
Dick's blue-black costume is about as close to classic as he has, and it's an infinitely better design than most; simple, sleek, eye-catching and immediately recognizable as his. There's a reason the basic design hasn't changed in decades, and we've seen that it translates well to live action, animation and video games, which is more than can be said for many heroes.
[/QUOTE]
It's a bit.... "Young Batman", though, isn't it? Which was what it was designed to be, when they were de-emphasising his Titans connections and tying him more strongly to the Bat Mythos, retooling him to patrolling a dark and crime-ridden city a bus-ride from Gotham.
It doesn't have any of the flamboyance, colour and extrovertism of Dick's character in the way that his Robin costume and the original disco or mullet era costume did.
There is no need to change his design, just tweak a couple of things. If the new 52 suit was blue and had the arms stripes, it would be perfect. The chicago suit was also a pretty good redesign, but i really dislike him in red.
Funnily enough, i started reading Batman comics cause of his silhouette on this cover.
[IMG]http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/detective-comics/727-1.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Claude;5263289]It's a bit.... "Young Batman", though, isn't it? Which was what it was designed to be, when they were de-emphasising his Titans connections and tying him more strongly to the Bat Mythos, retooling him to patrolling a dark and crime-ridden city a bus-ride from Gotham.
It doesn't have any of the flamboyance, colour and extrovertism of Dick's character in the way that his Robin costume and the original disco or mullet era costume did.[/QUOTE]
I guess one way you could look at it is him growing older and toning some of that down.
[QUOTE=Claude;5263289]It's a bit.... "Young Batman", though, isn't it? Which was what it was designed to be, when they were de-emphasising his Titans connections and tying him more strongly to the Bat Mythos, retooling him to patrolling a dark and crime-ridden city a bus-ride from Gotham.
It doesn't have any of the flamboyance, colour and extrovertism of Dick's character in the way that his Robin costume and the original disco or mullet era costume did.[/QUOTE]
Arguably yeah, we could say that Dick's blue-black suit is "young Batman" to a point, but that presumption is built on the iconic Bat suit of light gray/blue.....and that's a flimsy bridge. I don't think Bruce has ever used the bright blue/straight black colors that Nightwing does; it's gray/blue, black, or black/gray. Plenty of yellow on the logo and belt, but absolute black and bright primary blue? Has Bruce *ever* used those two? And he doesn't have a monopoly on "black costumes" any more than Clark has one on "blue costumes."
At most I think it's nothing more than a minor homage, and that's perfectly valid and fitting. It's also the suit Dick wore when he got his own book; not appearing in "Detective" or "Titans" but "Nightwing." I'd say the suit represents Dick's move to solo title status far more than it represents colors that, in a previous Age, Bruce sorta-kinda wore but not really.
And the suit isn't flamboyant, no, but it shouldn't be. Yes, Dick is fun loving and can be flamboyant at times, but that's not *all* he is. It's only been since DC decided to segment the Robins' personalities into easily digestible Ninja Turtle flavors that Dick has been categorized as the "happy" one. Let's not forget that he could brood and angst with the best of them long before he became Nightwing or returned to the Bat office post-NTT. So his suit having a dark black as well as an eye-catching, bright and rich blue *does* reflect his personality. Hell, just having that target-drawing blue right over the vital organs when you're supposed to be a stealth-oriented ninja of justice is flamboyant. :p
It's all subjective, of course, and I'm not trying to tell anyone their opinion is "wrong." But the suit *does* work; you can look at a image of Nightwing from BTAS, Young Justice, Titans tv, and DCU Online, and you can easily recognize it's supposed to be the same guy. The costume is adaptable across formats (even if you dislike a particular iteration) and the visual most people recognize Nightwing by (insofar as people recognize him at all). And changing the suit isn't going to make him any less of a Bat, and with everything else that needs to change behind the scenes in how DC utilizes the character, and everything that needs to be done on the page.....changing the costume beyond basic artistic license just seems like....why?
They wouldn’t end Nightwing 77 with Hutch being the Nightwing of Bludhaven while Dick works on titans academy would they?
Becuase I would loose faith in comics at that point.
Im at the point where I just what agent 37 back.
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;5264726]They wouldn’t end Nightwing 77 with Hutch being the Nightwing of Bludhaven while Dick works on titans academy would they?
Becuase I would loose faith in comics at that point.[/QUOTE]
Well it really kind of depends on what DC plans to do with Dick after March, right?
I can totally see Jurgens doing this, but if DC decides to get Dick out of Bludhaven or the next writer doesn't like the development, it'll be ignored and forgotten.
Why would write something so cursed Rac7d*...
And, same. Though, I have never stopped wanting Agent 37 back tbh. Orlando might be part of the line-up in March. I wish he would take over Nightwing. He's the only one who I could clearly see bring a Grayson influence back.
[QUOTE=Avi;5264785]Why would write something so cursed Rac7d*...
And, same. Though, I have never stopped wanting Agent 37 back tbh. Orlando might be part of the line-up in March. I wish he would take over Nightwing. He's the only one who I could clearly see bring a Grayson influence back.[/QUOTE]
I’m just low on faith after that disaster of a comic con yesterday
So the new titans book is a TEEN titans book so Nightwing is going to be just a background character for the younger hero just as Badou said. We also already know what his solo book will look like, just more bad bludhaven, batfam drama, bat villains and bat sidekick. I mean I love the dick grayson he's my fav but as it looks now, its not good at all.
But its an academy so we will obviously see Dick in a mentorship role. This is what I want to see. The first young superhero in turn raising a generation of young superheroes. Sign me up
[QUOTE=Pohzee;5265515]But its an academy so we will obviously see Dick in a mentorship role. This is what I want to see. The first young superhero in turn raising a generation of young superheroes. Sign me up[/QUOTE]
But he'll be in the background. All of the focus will be on the new characters, nightwing will be like batman in season 1 of young justice. He'll give out some missions, go on missions once in a blue moon and be gone and out the way for most of it.
How is this good for nightwing? If dc really wanted us to see nightwing mentoring the next generation then they would've given him his own sidekick by now but they haven't.
Nightwing doesn't even have a real superhero team anymore he just a teacher at superhero boot camp.
Heck the may do the same with the batfamily. Nightwing loses his solo, gets put into a batfamily team book and "mentors"the young bats. Nightwing can just sit on the sidelines while the young titans and bats do all of the work, I mean get "mentored " by him.
[QUOTE=Drako;5263295]There is no need to change his design, just tweak a couple of things. If the new 52 suit was blue and had the arms stripes, it would be perfect. The chicago suit was also a pretty good redesign, but i really dislike him in red.
Funnily enough, i started reading Batman comics cause of his silhouette on this cover.
[IMG]http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/detective-comics/727-1.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Always a rad cover.
Just cancel the Nightwing book for a little while and relaunch The Brave and the Bold with Dick as the anchor character. After two years (four trades, essentially), relaunch Nightwing as a solo book with the stench of Ric washed away and re-establishing him as a rounded, well-connected hero who isn't Batman-lite.
You can keep both books running.
[QUOTE=Pohzee;5265515]But its an academy so we will obviously see Dick in a mentorship role. This is what I want to see. The first young superhero in turn raising a generation of young superheroes. Sign me up[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and I assume he'll be the head teacher so he'll probably be the "face" of the book in that respect.
[QUOTE=Frontier;5265609]Yeah, and I assume he'll be the head teacher so he'll probably be the "face" of the book in that respect.[/QUOTE]
I know I'm being a downer sorry about that but if you think nightwing's gonna be the "face" of a TEEN titans book wit an all new cast of characters., than nightwing fans haven't learned anything over the past decade.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5265681]I know I'm being a downer sorry about that but if you think nightwing's gonna be the "face" of a TEEN titans book wit an all new cast of characters., than nightwing fans haven't learned anything over the past decade.[/QUOTE]
On the other hand, who better to teach the Titans how to survive editorial hits?
I'd read a one-shot about Dick teaching people to survive events where they're in the crosshairs. :p
Yea dick should teach them things like how to do the perfect squat for the perfect booty :p.
Ya, it’s probably going to be like when Titans had its team shift. He’ll be the marketing face, but narratively he’ll be a prop. TT just ran out of marketable characters so they found an excuse to import older members to try and help sell the current crop of kids.
That The Last Stories of the DC Universe thing was just awful for Dick, imo.
[spoil]So Dick decides to randomly leave that big gathering of Titans characters to go and meet Batman, and after he leaves Wally shows up. Donna is the one to confront him and hug him. Then later a zombie Roy comes back to help them with them greeting him back with even Wally and Roy giving a nod to each other, but even after Dick returns and is seen with the Titans again he has zero interaction with Wally or Roy. So no reunion between them or if there was then it happened completely off panel. So that pretty much ends Dick ever getting to address anything that happened with Wally or Roy now. For being the "face" of the Titans Nightwing did nothing and Donna was the one to do everything and give the speech, lol.
Then in the Batman family part of the issue Dick is just bugging Babs the whole time because he wants to "tell her something" with Babs doing her best to shoot down anything he wants to say. Then Bruce steps in and Dick then gets to ask Babs to marry him and then Bruce "marries" them before they go into the big battle. Dick just came across as so annoying in it to me, and it is made worse by how Dick in the last issue of Nightwing with all that terrible Bea drama with Dick saying how much he loved her.[/spoil]
[QUOTE=Badou;5265960]That The Last Stories of the DC Universe thing was just awful for Dick, imo.
[spoil]So Dick decides to randomly leave that big gathering of Titans characters to go and meet Batman, and after he leaves Wally shows up. Donna is the one to confront him and hug him. Then later a zombie Roy comes back to help them with them greeting him back with even Wally and Roy giving a nod to each other, but even after Dick returns and is seen with the Titans again he has zero interaction with Wally or Roy. So no reunion between them or if there was then it happened completely off panel. So that pretty much ends Dick ever getting to address anything that happened with Wally or Roy now. For being the "face" of the Titans Nightwing did nothing and Donna was the one to do everything and give the speech, lol.
Then in the Batman family part of the issue Dick is just bugging Babs the whole time because he wants to "tell her something" with Babs doing her best to shoot down anything he wants to say. Then Bruce steps in and Dick then gets to ask Babs to marry him and then Bruce "marries" them before they go into the big battle. Dick just came across as so annoying in it to me, and it is made worse by how Dick in the last issue of Nightwing with all that terrible Bea drama with Dick saying how much he loved her.[/spoil][/QUOTE]
Completely agree.
[spoil]It's a shame that the writers do not care about his relationships with other heroes at all. The platonic ones are completely disregarded - here and in Tec - and every love interest just makes him look desperate. Especially Babs. Not that I expected much from Castellucci.[/spoil]
I hope the Endless Winter TT special is set before this and FS + March ignores it all. It is titled the Last Stories, so there is hope.
DC eats its own tail, what else is new. Dick is still the face of the Titans brand though. For better or worse. He still remains the one they market around, despite not actually doing anything with him narratively. Thats just more of the same problem with him when it comes to the Titans reading it head. “He has a solo” so the Titans refuse to actually do anything with him or use him how they market him, despite him being the brands biggest character. Thats along the same line here. He has another Bat storyline in the issue, so the Titans story has nothing for him.
It’s counterproductive, but that’s how the Titans is for Dick. Do a big Titans reunion, have Hume make an appearance, but write Dick out to go do Bat things. But at least it was Donna. If Dick is the face, Donna’s the heart. Note though how you don’t see Donna on one Future State TTs cover or marketing though. It’s just like how they launched the new Titans direction by having Roy mock and beat him up right before those characters all left and Nightwing had to assemble this new direction.
[spoil]And Dick propose to Babs even though we just saw him crying for Bea. I’m shocked. Shocked I tell you.[/spoil]
Dickbabs cannon again
[QUOTE=Avi;5265977]Completely agree.
[spoil]It's a shame that the writers do not care about his relationships with other heroes at all. The platonic ones are completely disregarded - here and in Tec - and every love interest just makes him look desperate. Especially Babs. Not that I expected much from Castellucci.[/spoil]
I hope the Endless Winter TT special is set before this and FS + March ignores it all. It is titled the Last Stories, so there is hope.[/QUOTE]
[spoil]The Wally and Roy thing really bugged me. The Babs thing is whatever. I don't expect it to last or matter given he was just crying his eyes out about Bea a month ago. I'm just done with comic romances at this point, but not having Dick have any interaction with Wally and Roy really bothered me. We will never get to see what Dick's reaction was when he learned what happened to them, and now we will never get a proper reunion with them either. It was kind of the only thing I was interested in seeing with Dick's return from being Ric. All they needed was one stupid panel of Dick with his arms around both Wally and zombie Roy and it would have been something at least, but now it is nothing.[/spoil]
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5265992]DC eats its own tail, what else is new. Dick is still the face of the Titans brand though. For better or worse. He still remains the one they market around, despite not actually doing anything with him narratively. Thats just more of the same problem with him when it comes to the Titans. “He has a solo” so the Titans refuse to actually do anything with him or use him how they market him, despite him being the brands biggest character. That along the same line here. It’s counterproductive, but that’s DC’s comic management for you. Note how you don’t see Donna on one Future State TTs cover or marketing though. It’s just like how they launched the new Titans direction by having Roy mock and beat him up right before those characters all left and Nightwing had to assemble this new direction.
[spoil]And Dick propose to Babs even though we just saw him crying for Bea. I’m shocked. Shocked I tell you.[/spoil][/QUOTE]
We've had this argument before, but I just don't think Dick will ever be the face of the Titans. At least not fully. Robin will always be the face. So I don't see Dick or Nightwing ever being able to supplant Robin as the iconic face of the Titans. You could even argue that Raven, Cyborg, Starfire, and Beast Boy are more recognizable Titans than Nightwing in the general population. They obviously sell a ton more Titans related merch than Nightwing does given their exposure, but Nightwing is the bigger comics character because of Dick's history. It's just an odd situation. So I really don't think it has anything to do with Dick being a solo character since even before Dick was a solo hero he had awful Titans stories for years and years. It's just that leader role on the Titans, which generally ends up being a Bat character, always end up with them bearing the brunt of the awfulness of the Titans stories. Tim and Damian went through that recently with their Titans runs.
The same thing will happen again with Titans Academy probably. Dick acting as the authority figure and the one that will get knocked around or challenged to push the new young Titans characters. I've read enough X-Men to know these story beats. If Roy is back watch him challenge Dick's teaching methods or something and they get into another fight like always, lol.
Dick is Robin and Nightwing. We had this argument before, but where is Dick not at the forefront of the Titans. Cartoons, Tv show, even the comics sell him at the forefront even though the comics actual narratives undermine it. And Tim and Damian were unquestionably at the center of their last Titans runs narrative. They weren’t just background props like Dick ends up being. The stories out of their runs centered around them. They had character arcs and development. Where Dick gets non of that with the Titans anymore, and people just excuse it with well “he has a solo”. Despite him being the one character his Titans series can’t do without.
And the same thing probably will happen with Titans Academy, and it will remain this counterproductive problem. Even though Red X is a persona a version of him created, and next to Red X he’s at the center of all the marketing.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5266041]Dick is Robin and Nightwing. We had this argument before, but where is Dick not at the forefront of the Titans. Cartoons, Tv show, even the comics sell him at the forefront even though the comics actual narratives undermine it. And Tim and Damian were unquestionably at the center of their last Titans runs narrative. They weren’t just background props like Dick ends up being. The stories out of their runs centered around them. They had character arcs and development. Where Dick gets non of that with the Titans anymore, and people just excuse it well “he has a solo”. Despite him being the one character his Titans series can’t do without.
And the same thing probably will happen with Titans Academy, and it will remain this counterproductive problem. Even though Red X is a persona a version of him created.[/QUOTE]
I just think that DC/WB look at Dick/Nightwing and Robin as separate entities now. Robin has kind of morphed into its own character or identity split between all these characters especially spinning out of the Teen Titans cartoons. It isn't just Dick and as more time goes on and the further Dick is removed from that Robin identity I think the stronger that separation will get. Then because Robin will always be the iconic leader of the Titans and not Nightwing Dick is kind of stuck behind his own creation in a way.
But I hesitate to call what Tim and Damian experienced in their recent Titans runs "development". It was more regression, but Tim had a solo book and has been on the Titans without a lot of issues during the Johns era, right? Not like Tim's solo was an issue for him back then, and in Dick's last Titans run he was at the center. Abnett's second run was built around Dick's own personal experience with that woman he couldn't save and him reforming the team. It's just Abnett didn't understand Dick's character and wrote him horribly, but he was a big focus of it before getting shot in the head.
I mean before Abnett when was the last Titans team Dick was on? That one that tried to copy the NTT era that ended with Roy hooked on super drugs and Deathstoke missing both eyes before Flashpoint? That is all I remember of how it ended now, haha. He left that team after a year when he became Batman, but that book wasn't very good. It was trying to prop itself up on NTT nostalgia as it immediately did a Trigon story when it launched if I remember right, and then into a traitor story. Then before that Titans book Dick was on that Outsiders team (which was launched after The Titans series ended with Graduation Day) where he was the main focus in the beginning. Dick formed that new Outsiders team after Donna died, right? There was all that drama around that. It's just again despite having a lot of focus he was just written like crap and kind of got abused as the leader with him again having to give up control to Batman. I dunno. That's 20 years of Titans or Titans-like stories and despite Dick getting focus in some of them they weren't very good.
[spoil]I just remembered something from The Last Stories of the DC Universe thing. In that large spread that showed all the different Titans teams through the eras and reboots. Nightwing wasn't in any of them. It was Dick as Robin in the 70s Teen Titans and in the 80s New Teen Titans. Stuff like that is what makes me think Robin will always be the more iconic character than Nightwing when it comes to the Titans. A Robin character was in 5 of the 7 Titans lineups. Only a Flash character had more than 3.[/spoil]
When is the last time we have seen Robin with out eventually Nightwing. I think it’s clear they see Nightwing as part of Robins overall mythos now. Not 2 different characters, but both part of the same character and overall mythos.
Just because the runs weren’t good, doesn’t mean they weren’t the center pieces that drove the narrative of those runs. Having a solo doesn’t have to be a problem, but nevertheless it has served as an excuse to ignore or just use Dick as a prop this last decade. Abnett had 20+ issues to do something with the character, did nothing till they forced him to have to, then bang he’s gone. And then the book was gone. No character arc, no development, nothing said beyond doest being the JLs bitch undermine your character as a concept lol. They literally had to take every other character away from Abnett to get him to do something with Dick. The one character his book was proven couldn’t exists without.
When was the last time his solo was any good. It’s no different on either side. They get what they give. It has to be an accident for us to get something good. Nevertheless Titans is where the opportunity is at these days. So it’d be foolhardy to forsake Titans with him just because the comics have been bad. He is tethered to the Titans, and always will be regardless. It’s fruitless to fight it.
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;5266010]Dickbabs cannon again[/QUOTE]
...For now.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5265681]I know I'm being a downer sorry about that but if you think nightwing's gonna be the "face" of a TEEN titans book wit an all new cast of characters., than nightwing fans haven't learned anything over the past decade.[/QUOTE]
I think the juggling of the old and new characters will be what makes or breaks the book.
[QUOTE=Badou;5265960]That The Last Stories of the DC Universe thing was just awful for Dick, imo.
[spoil]So Dick decides to randomly leave that big gathering of Titans characters to go and meet Batman, and after he leaves Wally shows up. Donna is the one to confront him and hug him. Then later a zombie Roy comes back to help them with them greeting him back with even Wally and Roy giving a nod to each other, but even after Dick returns and is seen with the Titans again he has zero interaction with Wally or Roy. So no reunion between them or if there was then it happened completely off panel. So that pretty much ends Dick ever getting to address anything that happened with Wally or Roy now. For being the "face" of the Titans Nightwing did nothing and Donna was the one to do everything and give the speech, lol.
Then in the Batman family part of the issue Dick is just bugging Babs the whole time because he wants to "tell her something" with Babs doing her best to shoot down anything he wants to say. Then Bruce steps in and Dick then gets to ask Babs to marry him and then Bruce "marries" them before they go into the big battle. Dick just came across as so annoying in it to me, and it is made worse by how Dick in the last issue of Nightwing with all that terrible Bea drama with Dick saying how much he loved her.[/spoil][/QUOTE]
This all sounds kind of...all over the place.
Wait, what? [spoil]He's married to Barbara? What?[/spoil]
That can't be for real. Talk about unearned.
I doubt it'll ever be referenced again, outside of Metal. It's a throwaway POS scene and nothing more. Pretty much like everything else the last couple years.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5266365]I doubt it'll ever be referenced again, outside of Metal. It's a throwaway POS scene and nothing more. Pretty much like everything else the last couple years.[/QUOTE]
Even in Metal, they have said the marriage is only official until the end of this adventure.
So, the writers already know this won't be continúed.
If Dick is going to be increasing his involvement with the Titans, don't shackle him with a love interest in Gotham. We've seen DickBabs 1000 times. Let's see a modern take of him and Starfire or something new and not limiting.
[QUOTE=Pohzee;5266401]If Dick is going to be increasing his involvement with the Titans, don't shackle him with a love interest in Gotham. We've seen DickBabs 1000 times. Let's see a modern take of him and Starfire or something new and not limiting.[/QUOTE]
He is always shackled to Gotham love interest or not. Now more then ever it would be time to rekindle their friendship and working relationship. They will be working together and teaching. It’s good to have boundaries in front of their student or you get the Jean/Scott/Logan mess.
You got your modern Dick and Kory in the new 52 movies
[QUOTE=Pohzee;5266401]If Dick is going to be increasing his involvement with the Titans, don't shackle him with a love interest in Gotham. We've seen DickBabs 1000 times. Let's see a modern take of him and Starfire or something new and not limiting.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I feel like we're due some DickxKori with how hard they've been trying to make DickxBabs work (yet not work).
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;5266428]He is always shackled to Gotham love interest or not. Now more then ever it would be time to rekindle their friendship and working relationship. They will be working together and teaching. It’s good to have boundaries in front of their student or you get the Jean/Scott/Logan mess.
You got your modern Dick and Kory in the new 52 movies[/QUOTE]
I gave those movies 3 chances too many. Often terrible and never rose above mediocrity.
[QUOTE=Pohzee;5266445]I gave those movies 3 chances too many. Often terrible and never rose above mediocrity.[/QUOTE]
I enjoyed them. Dick and Kori's relationship was pretty good :).
I actually did enjoy them in that. They seemed like a healthy couple and without angst.
[QUOTE=Pohzee;5266453]I actually did enjoy them in that. They seemed like a healthy couple and without angst.[/QUOTE]
At least till the finale
But Babs doesn’t have a book anymore which makes it possible