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Eh I'm taking it since it means I don't have to see him wear Discount Bucky costume and it's not like he can go back to Bludhaven to get his costume from the Nightwing Rangers
Also it's so Bruce to keep his kids old costumes or make new ones when they're not looking
I have to give Williamson a lot props for having the balls to take shots at Dick’s book.
I agree with Restingvoice.
We've seen Babs giving "DickyBoy" the Nightwing suit, but that was taken by Joker. Dick has no more suit around, 'cause all was taken by the "Nightwings". Bruce, of course, has a new suit for each member of his family, so I don't find It a big deal.
But I also agree with Godlike, this claimed "big return" was nothing. I hope #100 can change that.
JL#53, instead, was exactly what I was waiting for.
Anyone giving Dick Nightwing back misses the point, and it not being a big deal just further misses the point. After 2 years of a Ric rejecting Nightwing, Dick reclaiming Nightwing should be a big deal. Instead it becomes just a uniform Batman gives one of his soldiers. From Talon’s bitch, to Joker’s bitch, to Batman’s bitch. It’s Dick just pulling a Nightwing suit out of his trunk in Titans Hunt all over again, but worse. It’s Batman pulling it out his ass and telling him to put it on. It’s something that should be a moment turned into nothing. And it not like they don’t know it cause the made the cover around it, yet given the issue itself it was like a cover for a different issue.
Didn't expect much from Batman #99 but also not that little. Underwhelming as always, and a near insult considering the cover. Not that covers say much these days and especially not when Dick is involved. Nightwing #74's cover was more compelling than the actuial issue too.
I agree, that they should have given him his identity back through the Owl story. It had better memory-regaining sequences, and would have felt more natural, instead Rick-Dick just had to be dragged into an event that does absoluetly nothing for him. Maybe #100 will be better, but why should it be? The only one apart from Bruce that matters is Harley.
As for JL #53: Kendra and Dick teaming up was great, and I have hopes that Dick will be allowed to shine for a bit. The dig at Ric I could have done without. If writers don't want to deal with the fallout, I applaud that but just leave it out. I don't get and don't need an explanation for Dick's sudden change of appearance, and neither do I don't need or want a Ric mention.
Thanks for saving my money, what a joke. Woulda been the first time I picked up a Bat-Book in months
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5144164]Anyone giving Dick Nightwing back misses the point, and it not being a big deal just further misses the point. After 2 years of a Ric rejecting Nightwing, Dick reclaiming Nightwing should be a big deal. Instead it becomes just a uniform Batman gives one of his soldiers. From Talon’s bitch, to Joker’s bitch, to Batman’s bitch. It’s Dick just pulling a Nightwing suit out of his trunk in Titans Hunt all over again, but worse. It’s Batman pulling it out his ass and telling him to put it on. It’s something that should be a moment turned into nothing. And it not like they don’t know it cause the made the cover around it, yet given the issue itself it was like a cover for a different issue.[/QUOTE]
Don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying, I was disapponted too. But, comparing with everything we had to suffer through two years, I'm fine with whatever way they want to bring him back. I don't care how Dick get his suit back, as long as he is back to himself and we can have good stories focused on Nightwing. That's why I think JL#53 is the step in the fight direction I was waiting for.
[QUOTE=Avi;5144208]Didn't expect much from Batman #99 but also not that little. Underwhelming as always, [/QUOTE]Should've just said you wasn't whelmed. :)
(Young Justice reference)
I'm not sure what the current canon is anymore, but Dick became Nightwing because Bruce fried him from being Robin. That is the most recent one at least. So you can act like Dick became Nightwing on his own apart from Batman, but he didn't. Bruce firing him forced Dick to become Nightwing. So it all stems from Batman just like how Robin is now Batman's to control despite it being a deeply personal identity Dick created on his own. That is just how things are.
The JL #53 issue was a bit heavy on the "Wow, look at how great the JL is. I can't wait to be there one day" stuff, but I get it is the JL's book. Plus I am still horribly confused at how old Dick was when he became Robin if he first met the JL when he looked 16 or so. The dig at Ric was really nice though and made the issue. Hopefully Dick doesn't get treated as poorly like he did in the last Metal event. Where Dick gave up all hope, wanted to leave Bruce for dead, got punched by Damian in the face, and then did nothing for the rest of the event.
I think people are really overthinking Batman handing Dick a costume.
[QUOTE=Avi;5144208]I agree, that they should have given him his identity back through the Owl story. It had better memory-regaining sequences, and would have felt more natural, instead Rick-Dick just had to be dragged into an event that does absoluetly nothing for him. Maybe #100 will be better, but why should it be? The only one apart from Bruce that matters[B] is Harley[/B].[/QUOTE]
Let that sink in.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5144164]Anyone giving Dick Nightwing back misses the point, and it not being a big deal just further misses the point. After 2 years of a Ric rejecting Nightwing, Dick reclaiming Nightwing should be a big deal. Instead it becomes just a uniform Batman gives one of his soldiers. From Talon’s bitch, to Joker’s bitch, to Batman’s bitch. It’s Dick just pulling a Nightwing suit out of his trunk in Titans Hunt all over again, but worse. It’s Batman pulling it out his ass and telling him to put it on. It’s something that should be a moment turned into nothing. And it not like they don’t know it cause the made the cover around it, yet given the issue itself it was like a cover for a different issue.[/QUOTE]
I didn't expect much from Tynion honestly but I expected better than this.
I haven't enjoyed a Dick Grayson comic since Grayson kind of sad but superspy dick was the best version for me anyway.
[QUOTE=Badou;5144463]I'm not sure what the current canon is anymore, but Dick became Nightwing because Bruce fried him from being Robin. That is the most recent one at least. So you can act like Dick became Nightwing on his own apart from Batman, but he didn't. Bruce firing him forced Dick to become Nightwing. So it all stems from Batman just like how Robin is now Batman's to control despite it being a deeply personal identity Dick created on his own. That is just how things are.
The JL #53 issue was a bit heavy on the "Wow, look at how great the JL is. I can't wait to be there one day" stuff, but I get it is the JL's book. Plus I am still horribly confused at how old Dick was when he became Robin if he first met the JL when he looked 16 or so. The dig at Ric was really nice though and made the issue. Hopefully Dick doesn't get treated as poorly like he did in the last Metal event. Where Dick gave up all hope, wanted to leave Bruce for dead, got punched by Damian in the face, and then did nothing for the rest of the event.[/QUOTE]
Unless JL #53 or Jurgens run mention it since that will be the newest change, the last time I heard about his turn to Nightwing was in Grayson where they talked about how he's growing up and need space of his own. I don't remember the firing ever mentioned.
Don't think too much about his Robin age because Snyder from what I've seen still operate squarely on New 52 continuity. He's still using 16-year-old Dick and buzzcut Bruce Wayne from Zero Year, even though King has brought back Year One and mentioned that Dick already became Robin when they met Selina in the boat.
Robin 80th anniversary shows the transition.
Really enjoyed JL 53, but I've been out of comics for a while. What do I need to get to make sense of the world/setting?
The Heavy Metal event.
[QUOTE=Digifiend;5144660]Robin 80th anniversary shows the transition.[/QUOTE]
Unclear canon. Rebirth has been avoiding showing Dick in scaly panties but the anniversary stories keep using it. So they're like different worlds.
[QUOTE=Frontier;5144499]I think people are really overthinking Batman handing Dick a costume. [/QUOTE]
I mean, i get the disappointment. Dick's lost of identity went on for the better part of two years and the ultimate payoff for it ended up being for the resolution to get relegated to a side plot in a Joker storyline. There's a level a tone-deafness there, because even in this issue with the cover trumpeting his return, Dick is still ultimately a minor character because Harley Quinn is the second lead here.
It is a Joker story and Dick doesn't really have any connection with the Joker on any kind of deeper level. So he was always going to be a minor character in this story. From the beginning with Punchline it was always setup with Harley being the 2nd most important "hero" in it with characters like Dick just filling out the background. Although that cover with him in the Nightwing suit was kind of a bait and switch I guess. Advertising it as Dick's BIG RETURN to Nightwing after not having it in his own book after two years of awful Ric stories, but it is just Bruce handing him his suit and that is it. A big let down but not a surprise.
[QUOTE=Digifiend;5144660]Robin 80th anniversary shows the transition.[/QUOTE]
I don't think those special Anniversary issues are really considered canon. Just like how the Detective Comics #1027 had a lot of different continuity stories that don't really line up.
[QUOTE=CrimsonEchidna;5145082]I mean, i get the disappointment. Dick's lost of identity went on for the better part of two years and the ultimate payoff for it ended up being for the resolution to get relegated to a side plot in a Joker storyline. There's a level a tone-deafness there, because even in this issue with the cover trumpeting his return, Dick is still ultimately a minor character because Harley Quinn is the second lead here.[/QUOTE]
I mean, I totally get wanting Dick's return to happen more on his own terms and wanting him to play a bigger role, but Batman handing him a costume doesn't equate to Batman "owning" Nightwing or giving Dick permission to be Nightwing to me.
The Harley stuff just irritates the heck out of me. She really has no business being as big a part of this story as she is, and she's the last person who should be lecturing Batman about killing Joker. Jason is literally in the story :mad:!!!
[QUOTE=Badou;5145129]I don't think those special Anniversary issues are really considered canon. Just like how the Detective Comics #1027 had a lot of different continuity stories that don't really line up.[/QUOTE]
Especially the one that had the 2003 cartoon Titans...for some reason.
Oh as for me the way Nightwing returns with a thud is... after 2 years of Ric it's just... pretty much what I expected. They miss a big comeback at least three times, so by now, it's just 'eh sure'. I maybe wrong but I think that [I]was[/I] my reaction when it was announced. Not "yay" not "finally" but "eh whatevs"
The moment's gone. Do whatever you want. You already did whatever you want. It will take more than that to make me look.
[QUOTE=Frontier;5145150]I mean, I totally get wanting Dick's return to happen more on his own terms and wanting him to play a bigger role, but Batman handing him a costume doesn't equate to Batman "owning" Nightwing or giving Dick permission to be Nightwing to me.
The Harley stuff just irritates the heck out of me. She really has no business being as big a part of this story as she is, and she's the last person who should be lecturing Batman about killing Joker. Jason is literally in the story :mad:!!!
Especially the one that had the 2003 cartoon Titans...for some reason.[/QUOTE]That same story had a 22 year timeline and the Titans were in year 4, which would make them too old. Even if they were 16 in that appearance, by the end of the story they'd be 34, which is at least five years older than they should be.
[QUOTE=Badou;5145129]I don't think those special Anniversary issues are really considered canon. Just like how the Detective Comics #1027 had a lot of different continuity stories that don't really line up.[/QUOTE]A lot of them are just set in the past, not as many are non-canon as it seems. Bendis's story seems to be set during or immediately after Tynion's Tec Rebirth run, considering the costumes - why make that effort if it wasn't meant to be canon? Using the current costumes would've placed it out of continuity due to Dick only just coming back and Damian currently not being Robin. In the Robin special, it's clear that the Tim Drake stories take place late in his Robin series and just before Tec Rebirth, and one of Dick's stories was set during the 1999 Titans series. Damian had a story that directly led into what just happened in Teen Titans, the last story in Tec #1027 was also definitely canon for similar reasons. Joker's anniversary special included Punchline's origin. That Nightwing story I mentioned takes place just before he took the Nightwing mantle in Tales of the Teen Titans. It was supposed to be an update for why he stopped being Robin, the original version having not been canon since Crisis on Infinite Earths since that event resulted in Jason Todd getting rebooted.
[QUOTE=Badou;5144463]
The JL #53 issue was a bit heavy on the "Wow, look at how great the JL is. I can't wait to be there one day" stuff, but I get it is the JL's book.[/QUOTE]
I quite like that that's his view as a kid, and then adult Nightwing is emphatic a couple of times later that he's *not* Justice League. Given the characters coming back in later issues, and the fact he's now against a Titan, presumably Williamson is building to a definitive "Dick is a Titan and not Justice League In Waiting thing". Which would be tricky to make look like a triumph rather than a limit of ambition, but good luck to him!
Also, this tie-in now calling back to No Justice as part of the big event Finale to Snyder's Justice League just makes it seem even odder that Nightwing was replaced by Green Arrow at the last minute in that series - who then went on to do, as I understand it, nothing.
(Or it would be, if anyone remembered No Justice.)
I'm not reading Tynion's Batman (I'll grab the trades maybe) so I haven't even read any of this, but I gotta agree with the "meh, whatever, f*ck off* sentiment. Two years of crap Ric stories, a return that's just a subplot in someone else's book.....DC is gonna have to do better than that for my money.
The second we have a proper Nightwing title with a quality creative team, I will be all over that. Might even buy two copies if the writer and artist aren't the bottom of the creative barrel. But I've refused to support Ric and I'll be damned if I'll support equally low effort just because Dick's got his name back.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5145599]I'm not reading Tynion's Batman (I'll grab the trades maybe) so I haven't even read any of this, but I gotta agree with the "meh, whatever, f*ck off* sentiment. Two years of crap Ric stories, a return that's just a subplot in someone else's book.....DC is gonna have to do better than that for my money.
The second we have a proper Nightwing title with a quality creative team, I will be all over that. Might even buy two copies if the writer and artist aren't the bottom of the creative barrel. But I've refused to support Ric and I'll be damned if I'll support equally low effort just because Dick's got his name back.[/QUOTE]
Exactly my thoughts. I haven't bought anything beyond the first issue of this Ric mess a year ago. I won't buy the Joker War tie ins or any of the issues following. I won't buy another half-asses creative team either. I will support issues like JL #53 though even though I'm not bothering with any of the rest of that event.
They're dancing
[ATTACH=CONFIG]100654[/ATTACH]
DC #1027
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5144141]I have to give Williamson a lot props for having the balls to take shots at Dick’s book.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ascended;5145599]I'm not reading Tynion's Batman (I'll grab the trades maybe) so I haven't even read any of this, but I gotta agree with the "meh, whatever, f*ck off* sentiment. Two years of crap Ric stories, a return that's just a subplot in someone else's book.....DC is gonna have to do better than that for my money.
The second we have a proper Nightwing title with a quality creative team, I will be all over that. Might even buy two copies if the writer and artist aren't the bottom of the creative barrel. But I've refused to support Ric and I'll be damned if I'll support equally low effort just because Dick's got his name back.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. Whole thing is a mess and after looking through Batman 99, absolutely not worth buying. Excitedly hopeful for Williams JL arc though.
[QUOTE=Avi;5144208]As for JL #53: Kendra and Dick teaming up was great, and I have hopes that Dick will be allowed to shine for a bit. The dig at Ric I could have done without. If writers don't want to deal with the fallout, I applaud that but just leave it out. I don't get and don't need an explanation for Dick's sudden change of appearance, and neither do I don't need or want a Ric mention.[/QUOTE]
I appreciated the Ric references, for two reasons. 1) It informed me that I was in fact reading main universerse Dick Grayson. 2) It informed me that the creator knows about that whole story line and sees it with a bit of contempt, so it seems like he won't be continuing on with it. It felt like a "Yes, this is main universe Dick Grayson. But also, this is going to be DICK Grayson."
Doesn't the solicit specifically say Ric will come up next issue - as Nightwing meets Cyborg and Starfire and they catch up on the last couple of years?
Williamson displayed an awareness Ric's writers seem to lack. Frustratingly so. It's better to call it out for what it is then ignorantly just pretend it isn't. If Ric is to be referenced, it should be referenced as a time of failure and low quality. Cause that is what it was. It was low point is pretty much every regard.
I hope Ric is retconed out. You guys think with Dan gone we will get a better writer?
What I find so odd about Tynion's unglamorous return for Dick is that he clearly thinks the character is important. Both of his features on landmark anniversary issues have had Dick as Robin. One of them was focused on the significance of his character to the mythos
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5146230]I hope Ric is retconed out. You guys think with Dan gone we will get a better writer?[/QUOTE]
It doesn't need to be retconed out as they didn't really do anything with Ric, except stubbornly waste 2 years on a direction no one liked and didn't go anywhere. But its not like they changed his history or had him do anything that would require a retcon. Beyond the creation of Ric, the actual stories and ideas with Ric were very safe and generic. Making Ric all the more dumb.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5146230]I hope Ric is retconed out. You guys think with Dan gone we will get a better writer?[/QUOTE]
No need for a retcon. This will just be "the time Dick had a head wound and lost his memory, then got screwed with by the Court until he got his memory back."
It's just a bad storyline. Granted, it's probably the worst Dick has ever been, his absolute lowest point from both a character and quality point of view, but in the end it's just a bad story and nothing more. If we retconned every bad story DC ever made we would have like, three stories left and two of them would be out of continuity. :p
Besides, retcons and reboots are never good ideas. They don't fix problems, they only add to them.
Well it seems this whole Ric story isn't done has the next solicit for Nightwing is if he wants this.
[QUOTE]In the wake of "The Joker War," Nightwing is back—but is he back for good? And does he remember Bea? With the help of Batman, Batgirl, his Teen Titans friends, and even Alfred, Nightwing must decide for himself which path to take. Then, when KGBeast discovers Nightwing is still alive, his street credibility is on the line if he doesn’t go to finish the job he started when he tried to kill Nightwing…and missed! Nightwing better watch his back is he wants to be back for good![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5147346]Well it seems this whole Ric story isn't done has the next solicit for Nightwing is if he wants this.[/QUOTE]
I said it at the time and I'll say it again, that solicit is not written to a professional standard. Symptomatic of the whole thing.
It’s just more of Jurgans repeating the same shit. Gotham villain comes to Bludhaven, dangles Bea as bait, generic traditional comic stuff ensues. Jurgans is going through same beats like he has been. Regardless what Dick is called. It’s quick and easy, and thats what he on the book for. It won’t be over till he is gone. And even then who knows what’s in store.
Maybe it is because I don't read enough about New Teen Titans, but it seems Dick doesn't have so much focus there.
Even Dick becoming Nightwing, it just happened near of the end of Judas Contract (and Dick was absent a good part of the story).
Is there an arc in NTT that focus mainly on Dick?
The FBI/Vigilante arcs pretty soon before the Judas Contract were very much Dick-centric. The Outsiders crossover had some important beats also. And he had a good showing in Who is Donna Troy?
What do you guys think?
[url]https://www.cbr.com/nightwing-joker-war-real-robin-king/[/url]