Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

Well, Snyder's book actually has "Nightwing" in the title, so it's not just a DickBats story, which is something I was afraid of. So that's a big win in my book. And it's called Parabola, one of my absolute favorite Tool songs, and given Snyder's love for rock and metal I'm guessing that's not entirely accidental, so that's another win in my book.

The inclusion of the Bat family is nothing I want or need, and I'm not sold on the "how each of them would handle this situation" thing but I'm guessing they'd be more supporting characters than co-leads (hopefully) so that's not so bad. Not what I want, but not a deal breaker.

This basically sounds like it's just gonna be the plot to that new Bat family video game, with Dick as the main PoV character. Which is fine. Nothing ground breaking and not the kind of elevation or escape from Bat-lite that I want for Nightwing, but fine.

So, yeah....the odds of me getting this were always pretty high but this basically cements that I'll get it....if it gets made. Six months ago I would've said DC will let Snyder write anything he wants, but with everything happening behind the scenes right now I'm not as confident. Still confident, but not nearly as much as I was.

Parabola is a bit of an awkward title for it. I wasn't expecting that. It doesn't exactly roll off the tongue that well, but I am surprised that it has Nightwing in the title. I figured it would have some original title like Last Knight on Earth did since we knew it was going to be a Black Label title, but it seems like it will be the complete opposite of what Last Knight was in being a super grounded story as opposed to this big epic.

But it could be called anything and that would be fine by me. Snyder is kind of the only big writer at DC that has shown any interest to wanting to do anything with Dick's character in a comprehensive way. I do wonder who the artist is. Maybe Jock if Snyder wants to try and have that grounded Black Mirror feel. My only hesitation is that it seems it will also focus on the rest of the Batman family and not just Nightwing mostly, which isn't what I was hoping for.

[QUOTE=Drako;5182143]Scott Snyder talked about his Nightwing book.
It's a Black Label book called Nightwing: Parabola.

He doesn't know the full status yet.

- a detective grounded story
- Batman goes missing and the batfamily looks for him and protect Gotham
- Shows what would happen in a Gotham without Bruce but with the family there.
- Has artist
- A meditation on Dick Grayson the same way Last Knight on Earth is for Bruce
- Focuses on how Dick is an empathetic detective
- depicts him as a compassionate hero

Starts at the 36 min mark.

[video=youtube_share;pXsHvBk7pHQ]https://youtu.be/pXsHvBk7pHQ?t=2198[/video][/QUOTE]

I really, really like the term Empathetic Detective. It's not the first time I hear it, I think he mentioned it in the first interview/announcement, but I still like it every time I hear it.

[QUOTE=Hizashi;5182040]Wouldn't that only be true if Tim picked up the Nightwing mantle simultaneously?[/QUOTE]

No because Tim isn't Nightwing and never has been. He'll become RR like the comics.

There's no reason for Tim to inherit Dick's mantle simply because it's vacant.

What do you guys think the chances of us seeing Swing-Wing in The Boys?

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5183021]I really, really like the term Empathetic Detective. It's not the first time I hear it, I think he mentioned it in the first interview/announcement, but I still like it every time I hear it.[/QUOTE]

Yes he has mentioned it before.

I have issues already with this book.

Why is this man seemingly unable to bring in Batman into everything?

Why is it about Gotham when Dick has his own city?

While I like the term Emphatic Detective why does it have to use Detective [normally a batman marketing tag] to promote this?

I didn't watch the video but from the points listed. This feels like a knock off Batman/Bruce. Like Snyder was still wearing his Batman goggles while dreaming up this concept.

[QUOTE=Claude;5182312]Interesting - doesn't sound like my own, personal "Scott Snyder Steps In To Recontextualise And Save Dick Grayson" story, but more like a continuation in the same vein of, as Avi says, Black Mirror and Gates Of Gotham.

And I like both those stories, so that works for me.

Also, given those previous stories and the idea of being "the Bat Family" taking over, I'd expect Tim to probably come out of this pretty well.[/QUOTE]

Excellent for Tim.

I hope we get some focus on the character whose name appears on the title. The guy that Snyder has been saying he wants to write. The one who was used in the pitch.

Nightwing must be code for Batfamily.

[QUOTE=Fergus;5183487]Yes he has mentioned it before.

I have issues already with this book.

Why is this man seemingly unable to bring in Batman into everything?[/QUOTE]

This is about the only problem I have with how Snyder writes Nightwing. I think he has a good grip of Dick as a character but Snyder seems to view him completely through the lens of Gotham, and like DC itself, tends to downplay or ignore the bigger stuff. As much as Snyder seems to get Dick, he doesn't give Dick's time out of Gotham the weight it deserves and any Nightwing that Snyder writes is firmly entrenched in that "street level vigilante" viewpoint.

[QUOTE=Fergus;5183487]Yes he has mentioned it before.

I have issues already with this book.

Why is this man seemingly unable to bring in Batman into everything?

Why is it about Gotham when Dick has his own city?

While I like the term Emphatic Detective why does it have to use Detective [normally a batman marketing tag] to promote this?

I didn't watch the video but from the points listed. This feels like a knock off Batman/Bruce. Like Snyder was still wearing his Batman goggles while dreaming up this concept.[/QUOTE]

because he said the reason he's writing this is there are still some stories that he didn't get to tell when he was writing Dick as Batman

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5184272]because he said the reason he's writing this is there are still some stories that he didn't get to tell when he was writing Dick as Batman[/QUOTE]

is that the reason he gave? I remember Morrison saying that about DickBats but didn't know Snyder ever said that. I remember him saying he would like to write Nightwing.

All his tweets that I recall say nightwing not Dickbats.

[QUOTE=Fergus;5184782]is that the reason he gave? I remember Morrison saying that about DickBats but didn't know Snyder ever said that. I remember him saying he would like to write Nightwing.

All his tweets that I recall say nightwing not Dickbats.[/QUOTE]

Well, that's not exactly as you remember.
Morrison said he wanted to write more about Batman and Robin, 'cause he had a lot of ideas with Dick and Damian's Dynamic Duo.
Snyder said he had other stories planned for DickBats, included the Court of Owls, but he was forced to turn it into a Bruce's story. Now, he is using some of the ideas he had back then, but as a Nightwing story. Bruce is missing, as in Reborn, but Dick is not going to be Batman. This is about a Gotham and a Batfam with Nightwing as their protector/leader, so, yeah, it's a Nightwing story.
Dick is a detective, he is always been, since he was a kid, so i don't get your point against that word.
I hope this will be one of the great stories Nightwing deserves.

And I hope it will help to show to DC Nightwing is important. I hope they never try to make him Batman.

[QUOTE=L.H.;5184902]Well, that's not exactly as you remember.
Morrison said he wanted to write more about Batman and Robin, 'cause he had a lot of ideas with Dick and Damian's Dynamic Duo.
Snyder said he had other stories planned for DickBats, included the Court of Owls, but he was forced to turn it into a Bruce's story. Now, he is using some of the ideas he had back then, but as a Nightwing story. Bruce is missing, as in Reborn, but Dick is not going to be Batman. This is about a Gotham and a Batfam with Nightwing as their protector/leader, so, yeah, it's a Nightwing story.
Dick is a detective, he is always been, since he was a kid, so i don't get your point against that word.
I hope this will be one of the great stories Nightwing deserves.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the correction

My point is that the detective shtick is Bruce's. He is the one usually sold as the detective. Yes we all know that Dick is a detective but by placing emphasis on it it feels like Bruce-lite.

Like the writer is trying to tell us that Dick also has detective skills just like batman. Something we already knew.

[QUOTE=Fergus;5185534]Thanks for the correction

My point is that the detective shtick is Bruce's. He is the one usually sold as the detective. Yes we all know that Dick is a detective but by placing emphasis on it it feels like Bruce-lite.

Like the writer is trying to tell us that Dick also has detective skills just like batman. Something we already knew.[/QUOTE]

While I understand what you mean and I too would have liked for Snyder's story to be something grander and set in the larger DCU, I actually believe a lot of people don't know (or don't want to admit tbh) that Dick is a good detective. Nightwing falling into Bruce-lite could definitely be an issue that the book might have, but I think it's good to show that Bruce (or Tim) doesn't hold the trademark on the word detective. Imo, we haven't really seen Dick use detective skills to a high extend in the last few years. Nothing in the vein of Black Mirror at least.

I think it's an opportunity to have a Nightwing title tied to a detective story in contrast to a DickBats.

[QUOTE=Fergus;5185534]Thanks for the correction

My point is that the detective shtick is Bruce's. He is the one usually sold as the detective. Yes we all know that Dick is a detective but by placing emphasis on it it feels like Bruce-lite.

Like the writer is trying to tell us that Dick also has detective skills just like batman. Something we already knew.[/QUOTE]

Not quite. The whole point of the story is to emphasize how different Dick is as a detective than Bruce.

[QUOTE=Avi;5185540]
I think it's an opportunity to have a Nightwing title tied to a detective story in contrast to a DickBats.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Pohzee;5185626]Not quite. The whole point of the story is to emphasize how different Dick is as a detective than Bruce.[/QUOTE]

This is how I interpreted the idea too

Excuse me? Dick is a detective, one of the greatest. If anything, not focusing on that skillset is a huge mishandling of the character rather than making him Bruce-lite. Dick's been watered down quite a lot over the years, but I never really expected to hear this lol. Dick minus the "detective" is not Dick at all.

Ya, they’re all detectives. This seems like tying to emphasize a personal style to it. Which is, yes. Look they all fight, they all jump, they all do detective stuff. Trying to claim a general trait is pointless. This is something they still have yet to learn with Tim. But establishing a particular signature or style with the general traits, that’s how they should be going about it. He doesn’t have to be the best detective, he doesn’t have to be the only detective, but as long as he has his own particular style as a detective they can play into that more with him then. Different styles and approaches creates diversity with their shared traits. Dick as detective becomes more valuable, not because he’s the best, but because it’s an alternative style and approach to that area.

Yeah, that was the point of Bendis's story in Detective Comics #1027. Everyone arrived independently to work the same case, and Bruce told them all at the end that they're good detectives. The only one absent was Cassandra Cain, whose communication disability would impair her detective skills (she makes up for it by being the bat family's best combatant though).

I hope things get better for Dick. I mean DC says Dick gets along with all the heroes but we don't see it. I mean wouldn't it be nice if there was an event that Dick had to appear in other books?

[QUOTE=Fergus;5183467]No because Tim isn't Nightwing and never has been. He'll become RR like the comics.

There's no reason for Tim to inherit Dick's mantle simply because it's vacant.[/QUOTE]

Right, I just meant Nightwing being an intermediate mantle from Robin to Batman would only be true if another Robin followed the same path. If Dick were the only character to go from Robin to Nightwing to Batman then wouldn't that just make the Nightwing mantle exclusive to him? Assuming it's permanently retired.

[I]Last Knight on Earth[/I] was the last time Snyder used Nightwing, right? How did y'all like it?

I liked it, Bryce was interesting. Never had any problems with Snyder’s Dick.

[QUOTE=Godlike13;5188157]I liked it, Bryce was interesting. Never had any problems with Snyder’s Dick.[/QUOTE]

I guess my only issue was that Dick wasn't able to resolve things without the new Batman. Like, I get the "Batman for every generation" thing, but Dick was right there. I know, I know, it was a specific story with a specific goal, but still.

Regardless, it was a gorgeous book and I liked everyone's character designs.

[IMG]https://cdn.shortpixel.ai/spai/w_835+q_lossless+ret_img+to_webp/https://comic-watch.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/FS_NTW_Cv1-scaled.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://i.redd.it/m3ofcbqds9t51.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Drako;5188889][IMG]https://cdn.shortpixel.ai/spai/w_835+q_lossless+ret_img+to_webp/https://comic-watch.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/FS_NTW_Cv1-scaled.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://i.redd.it/m3ofcbqds9t51.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Glad that Future State Nightwing is still Dick.

Also, wider Future State thoughts? I expected to hate it, and I don't.

[QUOTE=Claude;5188901]Glad that Future State Nightwing is still Dick.

Also, wider Future State thoughts? I expected to hate it, and I don't.[/QUOTE]

I dont hate it either. I like the designs.

written by ANDREW CONSTANT
art by NICOLA SCOTT
cover by YASMINE PUTRI
card stock variant cover by NICOLA SCOTT
ON SALE 1/19/21
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES | 1 OF 2 | FC | DC
CARD STOCK COVER $4.99 US
Batman is gone! Now, Nightwing has taken on the mission of keeping the citizens of Gotham City safe from the Magistrate. But to do that, he'll have stay one step ahead of the Magistrate! And you know things have gotten bad in Gotham when the safest place for Dick to hide out is the abandoned Arkham Asylum! When Nightwing gets a visit from a mask claiming to be the new Batman…does he fight like one? Pick up this dark peek into the future by writer Andrew Constant and artist Nicola Scott to find out!

[QUOTE=Drako;5188889][IMG]https://cdn.shortpixel.ai/spai/w_835+q_lossless+ret_img+to_webp/https://comic-watch.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/FS_NTW_Cv1-scaled.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://i.redd.it/m3ofcbqds9t51.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Nice little hardcore, more militant, Nightwing look they've got goin on here.
[QUOTE=Claude;5188901]Glad that Future State Nightwing is still Dick.

Also, wider Future State thoughts? I expected to hate it, and I don't.[/QUOTE]
I think I feel better about Future State knowing it's not supposed to be permanent like 5G was planned to be.
[QUOTE=Drako;5189013]written by ANDREW CONSTANT
art by NICOLA SCOTT
cover by YASMINE PUTRI
card stock variant cover by NICOLA SCOTT
ON SALE 1/19/21
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES | 1 OF 2 | FC | DC
CARD STOCK COVER $4.99 US
Batman is gone! Now, Nightwing has taken on the mission of keeping the citizens of Gotham City safe from the Magistrate. But to do that, he'll have stay one step ahead of the Magistrate! And you know things have gotten bad in Gotham when the safest place for Dick to hide out is the abandoned Arkham Asylum! When Nightwing gets a visit from a mask claiming to be the new Batman…does he fight like one? Pick up this dark peek into the future by writer Andrew Constant and artist Nicola Scott to find out![/QUOTE]
So one Batman successor vetting another, it seems.

[QUOTE=Frontier;5189024]Nice little hardcore, more militant, Nightwing look they've got goin on here.

I think I feel better about Future State knowing it's not supposed to be permanent like 5G was planned to be.

So one Batman successor vetting another, it seems.[/QUOTE]

I only hope is not get jobbed to elevate this new Batman.

[QUOTE=Claude;5188901]Glad that Future State Nightwing is still Dick.

Also, wider Future State thoughts? I expected to hate it, and I don't.[/QUOTE]I think the mantle is now shared. There's someone in a different Nightwing costume operating with Raven, Starfire, Crush and Red Arrow as the Teen Titans.

It would be hilarious if that was actually Tim and he was called Blue Jay or Blue Wing.

[QUOTE=Pohzee;5189164]It would be hilarious if that was actually Tim and he was called Blue Jay or Blue Wing.[/QUOTE]

Tim is already confirmed as Robin.

It honestly sounds awful. They are just going to use Nightwing to prop up the new Batman (probably Luke) by the sounds of it and use it to probably explain why Nightwing isn't operating as Batman instead. It's a waste of time and an easy pass, but it all was to be expected given how they view Dick as a character these days. Hopefully none of it carries over into his book post Future Slate.

As for the new costume I don't think it looks very good. I'd love a redesign of the Nightwing costume as the simple blue and black design and domino mask feels a bit too bland to me and translates poorly into live action, so I'd like to see something fresh and really different, but just adding these awkward armor pads, some weird domino mask thing that just covers a bit of the side of his head and chin, and making the bird logo look worse is a step backwards. It looks dumb. That Nightwing costume on the Teen Titans book looks a lot better with the blue and gold. No idea if that is supposed to be Dick, Damian or someone else.

Also I like that Nicola Scott is drawing Nightwing, but at the same time it kind of stuck that a good artist is being wasted on a not so good story. We just had that with Moore and the Ric stuff.

The costume looks bad tbh, a bit better in the cover by Purti but.... hmmm.... the colourist will be the deciding force, probably. Wish Dick had gotten sth sleeker like Catwoman or one that's more like the one on the Teen Titans cover. Speaking about TT I'm guessing that's Damian thanks to the teammates. Hope Red X is at least gonna be Dick.
Not that excited for the Issue. "Bruce is gone" seems now to be a stable for anything Dick appears in that is not part of his own in continuity comic, and, yeah, please, please, please, DC. Just don't try to prop up the new or shared Batman or whatever by defeating Nightwing.

Lol yeah sounds right like Snyder's pitch even

[QUOTE=Drako;5189175]Tim is already confirmed as Robin.[/QUOTE]

Ash Ketchum disease.

I just noticed the rib pouches on the costume. I don't think I've ever seen that before on a superhero costume. Just give him a belt if you want him to have some pouches, lol.

[QUOTE=Avi;5189356]The costume looks bad tbh, a bit better in the cover by Purti but.... hmmm.... the colourist will be the deciding force, probably. Wish Dick had gotten sth sleeker like Catwoman or one that's more like the one on the Teen Titans cover. Speaking about TT I'm guessing that's Damian thanks to the teammates. Hope Red X is at least gonna be Dick.
Not that excited for the Issue. "Bruce is gone" seems now to be a stable for anything Dick appears in that is not part of his own in continuity comic, and, yeah, please, please, please, DC. Just don't try to prop up the new or shared Batman or whatever by defeating Nightwing.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, something sleeker in the lines of the Catwoman costume would have been much better. Maybe something cyberpunk-ish. Oh well.

[QUOTE=Claude;5188901]Glad that Future State Nightwing is still Dick.

Also, wider Future State thoughts? I expected to hate it, and I don't.[/QUOTE]

Still a general meh because it's yet another bleak future, but looking at the artists at least Bruce and Dick will look sexy doing whatever they're doing