Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[QUOTE=Godlike13;5247836]They'll use the last series as an order basis unless there is something in-between. They can change the writer and editorial, but they first still have to convince the general audience to give it chance in the first place.[/QUOTE]

You'd have a valid argument if the Titans were in a better position. They're not. The book doesn't tend to sell better than Nightwing and is far, far less consistent in its sales numbers. All the things you'd have to do to repair Dick's solo sales and reputation, you'd have to do to repair the Titans' sales and reputation. And with the Titans you don't have the benefit of that high sales floor that has kept Nightwing alive through the Ric era, nor do you have the opportunity to build a strong foundation for the character as a solo IP. I'm down with DC actually giving a damn about the Titans and trying to make them sell properly again but as far as Dick goes, there's no benefit to putting him there at the expense of his solo.

At this point DC has done so much damage to both brands there *is* no quick, easy fix. They've spent years putting in halfassed effort (when they're not sacrificing both brands to the larger franchises of the Bat and JLA) and that has trained readers who aren't already die-hard fans to largely ignore those books, regardless of what the books are actually doing. A quality creator and new editor isn't the solution, it's merely the first step along the path; true salvation for these brands will require long-term effort, investment, and consistently strong creators.

[QUOTE=Frontier;5249055]Well, Dick and Jason are different characters who do different stuff though...[/QUOTE] but that's not how DC looks at books. What DC will is that one book is about a former robin 20s street vigilante in an urban gritty city and the other is a former Robin 20s street vigilante in urban gritty city.

Dick and Jason personality being different doesn't matter. Dick and Bruce, dick and tim personality are different, didn't stop DC form see nightwing as redundant with batman and Robin and wanting to kill him off.

DC looks at role and niches not personalities. Higgins is from Chicago.

[QUOTE=Ascended;5249227]You'd have a valid argument if the Titans were in a better position. They're not. The book doesn't tend to sell better than Nightwing and is far, far less consistent in its sales numbers. All the things you'd have to do to repair Dick's solo sales and reputation, you'd have to do to repair the Titans' sales and reputation. And with the Titans you don't have the benefit of that high sales floor that has kept Nightwing alive through the Ric era, nor do you have the opportunity to build a strong foundation for the character as a solo IP. I'm down with DC actually giving a damn about the Titans and trying to make them sell properly again but as far as Dick goes, there's no benefit to putting him there at the expense of his solo.

At this point DC has done so much damage to both brands there *is* no quick, easy fix. They've spent years putting in halfassed effort (when they're not sacrificing both brands to the larger franchises of the Bat and JLA) and that has trained readers who aren't already die-hard fans to largely ignore those books, regardless of what the books are actually doing. A quality creator and new editor isn't the solution, it's merely the first step along the path; true salvation for these brands will require long-term effort, investment, and consistently strong creators.[/QUOTE]

Titans has time between series, and stuff happening outside of comics. 6-12 issues of a new Titans series would still be a better sales basis then current Nightwing. Apathy and creator favoritism is what kept Nightwing alive through Ric. It’s sales floor is now trash. Unless he’s sucking on Batman’s tit we are talking sub 15k now, well out of the top 100.
Titans has time away, and allows for the opportunity to rest and then introduce a different foundation for the character as a solo IP. The point is they can’t just slap on a new creator and think that is going do anything at this point. They need to remarket with Nightwing now. So maybe try re marketing with the Titans then simply just relaunching and naively thinking that’s all that’s required.

[QUOTE=Avi;5249097]
Did Higgins ever say why he chose Chicago in his run?[/QUOTE]

He’s from Chicago.

[QUOTE=WonderNight;5248723]I know this sounds crazy but maybe just maybe dc can do something new with nightwing? Maybe a new teambook with a new roster? Or maybe instead of a solo book we get a mimi series as setup for a new direction? Just a thought.

Speaking of solo's, with Jason's new status quo red hood will now be in Gotham, red hood in Gotham and nightwing in bludhaven is very redundant. They're almost the as book at that point and DC is cutting books I don't see both being around at the same time with the same status quo.[/QUOTE]
It’s to early to say if Jason’s back in Gotham full time or not. The current story is just a 2 issue filler just to get it to December.

[QUOTE=Godlike13;5249244]Titans has time between series, and stuff happening outside of comics. 6-12 issues of a new Titans series would still be a better sales basis then current Nightwing. Apathy and creator favoritism is what kept Nightwing alive through Ric. It’s sales floor is now trash. Unless he’s sucking on Batman’s tit we are talking sub 15k now, well out of the top 100.
Titans has time away, and allows for the opportunity to rest and then introduce a different foundation for the character as a solo IP. The point is they can’t just slap on a new creator and think that is going do anything at this point. They need to remarket with Nightwing now. So maybe try re marketing with the Titans then simply just relaunching and naively thinking that’s all that’s required.[/QUOTE]
I guess it's been about a year since Abnett's Titans ended? It doesn't feel that long ago. I think a relaunch doing well would be heavily reliant on the creative team and roster and whether we get a Teen Titans team alongside them.

Although I don't see a Titans writer looking at the title as a Dick Grayson vehicle.

Frankly, Titans shouldn't rely on Dick. That's what derailed the last series when he was forced out due to Ric.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5249237]Higgins is from Chicago.[/QUOTE]I wonder if he knows Ironheart and Champions writer Eve Ewing then? She's also from Chicago.

[QUOTE=Digifiend;5249447]Frankly, Titans shouldn't rely on Dick. That's what derailed the last series when he was forced out due to Ric.[/QUOTE]

LoL, ya. That was that series problem. Thats series didn't do shit with Dick. Except feed him to the other and sell him as Batman's bitch. He was just there legitimize it. The problem the last series demonstrated was how the Titans literally needs Dick to survive, yet at the same time refuses to actually do anything with him or protect his character. That series undermined itself.

[QUOTE=Godlike13;5249244]Titans has time between series, and stuff happening outside of comics.[/QUOTE]

And despite those things, the Titans still can't maintain publishing or steady sales, and at its best barely manages to equal typical Nightwing numbers.

Titans is *not* the franchise to send Dick to for rehabilitation. I get where you're coming from but the Titans is not the solution. It's just about the only book you could send Dick to where things would likely get worse for him instead of better. And how many times have we said "well the Titans have had a break and they've got the cartoon, and it's time to try again and it'll definitely be better this time!" only to find out that no, it's not better, and we watch the title die within 24 issues?

[QUOTE]ItÂ’s sales floor is now trash. Unless heÂ’s sucking on BatmanÂ’s tit we are talking sub 15k now, well out of the top 100.[/QUOTE]

And it took two years of intentional sabotage to get sales down that low. The fact that sales held as strongly as they did through the course of Ric shows how popular Dick is and how loyal his fans are. Seriously, for the first year or so Ric sales were barely below average, and I don't think many books could have pulled that off in the face of such low quality. Meanwhile, the Titans can't make a book last more than a couple years even when DC *isn't* trying to screw them over.

[QUOTE]Titans has time away, and allows for the opportunity to rest and then introduce a different foundation for the character as a solo IP. The point is they canÂ’t just slap on a new creator and think that is going do anything at this point. They need to remarket with Nightwing now.[/QUOTE]

I agree, they need to remarket the character. But not with the Titans. I mean, what is the message there? "Hey, we screwed this beloved character over for two years and treated him like he was still a sidekick. So we're gonna fix things by taking away his solo and putting him in a book none of you have cared about for thirty years so we can repeat a status quo the character outgrew decades ago!" If the goal is to move Nightwing forward and rebuild from the damage of Ric, then going backwards to the Titans is not the answer.

The character *does* need a remarket, he *does* need to get away from Batman and Gotham. Putting him back in the Titans is not the way to tell people that it's a brand new day for Nightwing and the sins of the past won't be repeated. Sending him to the Titans will only tell fans that DC has learned nothing. Dick has had halfassed effort, at best, since the New52 began almost ten years ago. The Titans? They've sucked for *thirty* and require a hell of a lot more work and effort and investment to get their feet under them again.

[QUOTE=Ascended;5249509]And despite those things, the Titans still can't maintain publishing or steady sales, and at its best barely manages to equal typical Nightwing numbers.

Titans is *not* the franchise to send Dick to for rehabilitation. I get where you're coming from but the Titans is not the solution. It's just about the only book you could send Dick to where things would likely get worse for him instead of better. And how many times have we said "well the Titans have had a break and they've got the cartoon, and it's time to try again and it'll definitely be better this time!" only to find out that no, it's not better, and we watch the title die within 24 issues?

And it took two years of intentional sabotage to get sales down that low. The fact that sales held as strongly as they did through the course of Ric shows how popular Dick is and how loyal his fans are. Seriously, for the first year or so Ric sales were barely below average, and I don't think many books could have pulled that off in the face of such low quality. Meanwhile, the Titans can't make a book last more than a couple years even when DC *isn't* trying to screw them over.

I agree, they need to remarket the character. But not with the Titans. I mean, what is the message there? "Hey, we screwed this beloved character over for two years and treated him like he was still a sidekick. So we're gonna fix things by taking away his solo and putting him in a book none of you have cared about for thirty years so we can repeat a status quo the character outgrew decades ago!" If the goal is to move Nightwing forward and rebuild from the damage of Ric, then going backwards to the Titans is not the answer.

The character *does* need a remarket, he *does* need to get away from Batman and Gotham. Putting him back in the Titans is not the way to tell people that it's a brand new day for Nightwing and the sins of the past won't be repeated. Sending him to the Titans will only tell fans that DC has learned nothing. Dick has had halfassed effort, at best, since the New52 began almost ten years ago. The Titans? They've sucked for *thirty* and require a hell of a lot more work and effort and investment to get their feet under them again.[/QUOTE]

- Sales is not why Titans isn't regularly published, and Nightwing has now fallen well below where Titans numbers where when it was cancelled. Again, the point is not to rehabilitate the character but to give the bottom out solo series a break. As long as it can make it 6 issues above 25k, create time for the palate to be cleansed, and convince shops to use it as an order basis instead of his previous bottomed out series. It will have done its job.

- Point is that they are now down that low. Regardless of how that got there, thats Nightwing's current reality. While Titans have been away long enough to start fresh. As bad as Rebirth Titans turned out creatively, it still debuted pretty strong.

- They are already marketing the character with the Titans everywhere but in the comics, so the the message would be a unified message of how they are already selling the character. At this point they need to reestablish a base. Lets be clear here. Its not audiences that have rejected the Titans, but people within DC that have something against them. A short break with the Titans to regroup, is not something general audiences are going to freak out over or rebel against.

[QUOTE=Godlike13;5249545]- Sales is not why Titans isn't regularly published, and Nightwing has now fallen well below where Titans numbers where when it was cancelled. Again, the point is not to rehabilitate the character but to give the bottom out solo series a break. As long as it can make it 6 issues above 25k, create time for the palate to be cleansed, and convince shops to use it as an order basis instead of his previous bottomed out series. It will have done its job.[/QUOTE]
[I]Nightwing[/I] has also ran longer than that Titans book did by this point.

But all this hinges on DC getting its head together when it comes to the Titans and using Dick well, which is why I would love to see but hasn't quite had the best track record in the past few years.
[QUOTE]- Point is that they are now down that low. Regardless of how that got there, thats Nightwing's current reality. While Titans have been away long enough to start fresh. As bad as Rebirth Titans turned out creatively, it still debuted pretty strong.[/QUOTE]
Have they had a long enough break now, though?
[QUOTE]- They are already marketing the character with the Titans everywhere but in the comics, so the the message would be a unified message of how they are already selling the character. At this point they need to reestablish a base. Lets be clear here. Its not audiences that have rejected the Titans, but people within DC that have something against them. A short break with the Titans to regroup, is not something general audiences are going to freak out over or rebel against.[/QUOTE]
I feel like they can do a two-fold rebuilding of the character both within the Titans and as an independent, solo, hero. I feel like that would be more effective than just sticking him in the Titans.

According to Comichron, Nightwing is doing just fine. He still is selling more than most DC comics out there.

Before Bat event inflation, he was at 18k. Just above Beyond. He's not doing fine. He's now completely reliant on Batman to stay above water.

[QUOTE=Drako;5249733]According to Comichron, Nightwing is doing just fine. He still is selling more than most DC comics out there.[/QUOTE]

This is only because Nightwing was part of Joker War event (that was a pretty profitable event).

Nightwing doesn't usually sell so good.

[QUOTE=Godlike13;5249771]Before Bat event inflation, he was at 18k. Just above Beyond. He's not doing fine. He's now completely reliant on Batman to stay above water.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and in his all time low he still sold more than the Teen Titans and Red Hood.

But if you think no one will buy his comic with the relaunch and a new creative team, the only thing we can do is wait and see.

[QUOTE=Konja7;5249796]This is only because Nightwing was part of Joker War event (that was a pretty profitable event).

Nightwing doesn't usually sell so good.[/QUOTE]

Before Ric Grayson he sold around 25k to 30k regularly.

Edit:

I'm actually interested in seeing the numbers of issue 76, too bad it takes a lot of time for them to release this numbers.

He was selling better before Ric. Which means he would have been better off without it. Nicola Scott shared this

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Honestly with future state being 2 months all of this could be forgotten. This is a shorten version of 5G anyway. So at this point they are probably seeing what will happen

[QUOTE=Drako;5249802]Yeah, and in his all time low he still sold more than the Teen Titans and Red Hood.

But if you think no one will buy his comic with the relaunch and a new creative team, the only thing we can do is wait and see.[/QUOTE]

Two books that also aren’t selling well. Teen Titans even being canceled. There being other books not selling well doesn’t mean Nightwing is doing fine. They are chopping books selling similarly, and would have probably chopped Nightwing too already if it wasn’t for them wanting Jurgens to have the work.

[QUOTE=Godlike13;5249912]Two books that also aren’t selling well. Teen Titans even being canceled. There being other books not selling well doesn’t mean Nightwing is doing fine. They are chopping books selling similarly, and would have probably chopped Nightwing too already if it wasn’t for them wanting Jurgens to have the work.[/QUOTE]

I mean the fact he was selling well before the Ric arc happened. Doesn’t that mean his numbers most likely will go back up? His numbers went low because of Ric not because of Nightwing wasn’t popular had the beginning was great. Yea Titans got cancelled. What would save the comic from being cancelled? They probably will be doing a new series

[QUOTE=Godlike13;5249771]Before Bat event inflation, he was at 18k. Just above Beyond. He's not doing fine. He's now completely reliant on Batman to stay above water.[/QUOTE]

Well over the last two years a lot of us dropped the book, it gonna take time for it to recover

Nightwing will be in Batman #104.
[url]https://www.gamesradar.com/ghost-maker-is-on-the-hunt-for-clownhunter-and-harley-quinn-in-batman-104-preview/[/url]

[IMG]https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/3a3P7Z86C7wNt3sUdJz9HY-970-80.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Drako;5249802]Yeah, and in his all time low he still sold more than the Teen Titans and Red Hood.

But if you think no one will buy his comic with the relaunch and a new creative team, the only thing we can do is wait and see.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much.

I don't think the title or the character have been so damaged a rest is required. Ultimately, Ric was nothing more than a bad run and nothing more. You don't put a title on the shelf for 1-3 years every time that happens, you just get a new creative team and move on. Granted, Ric lasted longer than most bad runs, but we're not talking about Hawkman levels of stank. I think a proper relaunch with a creative team and direction worth getting excited about will bring the sales back up relatively quickly. But we'll just have to wait and see what DC offers and who's doing it and how well fans respond.

But I tell you this, the Nightwing fandom is one of the most hardcore loyal, ride or die groups in comics. It took forever for the sales to start to really slip during the Ric saga, and there's not a lot of books that could keep going as strongly as Nightwing did in the face of such crap quality. If DC gives us something worth reading, I believe sales won't take long to recover. But we'll see how things play out.

And I'm not even worried about Jurgens sticking around. DC fired half their damn staff and common wisdom would tell us that they kept the better half of their talent pool. And all the old guard editors/managers who kept people like Jurgens and Lobdell employed are gone too. And didn't Jurgens say he was leaving anyway? I'm not expecting "Grant Morrison" level of talent on Nightwing, but I'll be surprised if we get the same kind of bottom of the barrel creators we have been.

And no offense to Jurgens here; I love what that man did in the Super books back in the 90's and I got nothing but respect for him. But he was not up to the challenge of making Ric worth reading. I don't know if anyone could have saved that idiot storyline.

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5249827]He was selling better before Ric. Which means he would have been better off without it. Nicola Scott shared this

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Honestly with future state being 2 months all of this could be forgotten. This is a shorten version of 5G anyway. So at this point they are probably seeing what will happen[/QUOTE]

Man I gotta get those abs!

'Dick Grayson, the original and still the best...'

Countdown best Robin

[url]https://www.gamesradar.com/best-robin-batman/[/url]

If DC is embracing looser continuity, encouraging artist creativity and more black label titles. I hope we get more stories with Dick as Robin.

I know Dick is Nightwing and that mantle needs some TLC right now but I wish we had more modern stories with RobinDick.

[QUOTE=Fergus;5250806]'Dick Grayson, the original and still the best...'

Countdown best Robin

[url]https://www.gamesradar.com/best-robin-batman/[/url]

If DC is embracing looser continuity, encouraging artist creativity and more black label titles. I hope we get more stories with Dick as Robin.

I know Dick is Nightwing and that mantle needs some TLC right now but I wish we had more modern stories with RobinDick.[/QUOTE]
As long as we don't see the New 52 Robin suit again...

Dick Grayson - the heart of Bat family
[video=youtube;c3cB__4M-Sc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3cB__4M-Sc[/video]

If it’s a clone that would be interesting

[url=https://www.gamesradar.com/ghost-maker-is-on-the-hunt-for-clownhunter-and-harley-quinn-in-batman-104-preview/]Batman #104 preview featuring Dick and Babs.[/url]

So as someone who dipped from Batman books for like the last year, what was the result of the Ric storyline? Is Dick back now and how did he return if so?

[QUOTE=The Kid;5251708]So as someone who dipped from Batman books for like the last year, what was the result of the Ric storyline? Is Dick back now and how did he return if so?[/QUOTE]

A bunch Nightwing imitators, a fight with Joker's daugther, another storyline involving the Court Of Owls and Dick's great grandpa, pretty forgetable overall it wasn't even in the "so bad that is good"(except for that hilarious meta comment in Lodbell's run) category is just boring. As for how he recovered, i don't remember all the details but it was a combination of the Owls brainwashing him and Joker altering his mind (i didn't read that last issue so i'm not sure of the details).

Joker had a crystal that helped Dick restore his memories.

Scott Synder is doing it [url]https://northoftheroad.tumblr.com/post/631681069451771904/scott-snyders-nightwing-pitch[/url]

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5255225]Scott Synder is doing it [url]https://northoftheroad.tumblr.com/post/631681069451771904/scott-snyders-nightwing-pitch[/url][/QUOTE]

We already discussed this here. It was you that made this post that i responded on reddit? :D

[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Nightwing/comments/k4pir2/do_you_guys_think_it_will_happen/[/url]

Nightwing by Dan Mora.

[url]https://twitter.com/Danmora_c/status/1334343013875789825/photo/1[/url]
[QUOTE]#Nightwing to end the day[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoSJTGkXIAgBjjZ?format=jpg[/IMG]

Huh... i guess is not Dick then.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/i6ECdEa.jpg[/IMG]

.....I appreciate they have made it clear with anticipation though.

Ok an idea just came to me, an idea about a potential status quo for Nightwing. One that can move Dick's character further and at the same time leave most fans happy(I hope).

But first I want to talk about some of the problems of Nightwing's current status quo.

1) Nightwing is under and to dependent on the bat franchise to much. He's a batman subordinate/substitute right now. Dick needs more space and independents from the bat mythos so he can build more of his own.

2) Nightwing is and feels so irrelevant and disconnected from the rest of the DCU, Dick is supposed to be one of (if not the most) connected, trusted and best leader in the DCU. But right now it feels like Nightwing doesn't exist outside of the bat mythos.

3) the batfamily is bloated, Gotham and the bat mythos is fuel of city based street vigilantes. From batgirl, spoiler, orhan, signal, red hood, red Robin, batwoman, blue bird batwing, robin and batman himself. Nightwing being a city based street vigilante makes dick very redundant with the other bats.

I know there's been alot of great idea here for a future direction for Nightwing, some say globetrotter some titans others say JL ect.

So my solution would be all the above! Here me out. Give nightwing a solo and team book, and have Nightwing be both a leaguer AND titan.

Team) Team book would be a titans book, Nightwing as the leader and the link of the titans/teen titans to the league. Just like wonder woman with JLD and Batman with the outsiders.

Solo)Nightwing's solo would be a JL book (not a teambook though) the book would be about Nightwing's missions around the DCU as a JL member. Solo missions and interaction and relationships with other leaguer. His solo would basically be the return of Grayson but as a hero instead of a spy, just replace agent 37 with Nightwing and spyral with JL.

Last just gave Nightwing visit Gotham and the batfamily from time to time in the other batbooks.

Now with all of this Dick now has his independence, isn't redundant with the other bats, is connected to the larger DCU, has Leaguer status, the leader of his own team and visit the batfamily for bat events and guest roles. It's a win for Nightwing in my eyes, what do you all think?

Nightwing gets to be a Bat, (visit the batbook and events) a Titan (leader in the teambooks) and Leaguer (solo book Grayson style with Nightwing and JL instead of agent 37 and spyral) at the same time!

Nightwing can finally be his own thing with his own niche and truly be the heart of the DCU.:o.

If Deathstoke Nightwing is actually Dick, I think it has the potential to be very interesting. Certainly an innovative way to tie Red X to both Dick and Deathstroke, and the idea to blend the gold/orange and blue of the Mulletwing and Deathstroke suits is a smart parallel.

[QUOTE=WonderNight;5260095]Ok an idea just came to me, an idea about a potential status quo for Nightwing. One that can move Dick's character further and at the same time leave most fans happy(I hope).

Nightwing can finally be his own thing with his own niche and truly be the heart of the DCU.:o.[/QUOTE]

Generally I think it's a fine idea. Plenty of people have protected their own city while also doing double (triple?) duty on more than one team. Dick could totally do this and I'd love to see him get that much exposure. I assume you'd have him in the League book as well right?

My only nitpick with the concept is the teams in question. I don't see the Titans being a good place for Dick right now (or any of the other classic members). At this point it's just regression, not growth, with no clear way forward. Not an impossible problem to overcome but a "let's just re-tell old NTT stories!" does not work. And the League won't end up being a benefit either, I don't think. The League is where the A-listers go, it's not the book that *elevates* characters to the A-list (just look at Vic and J'onn). I fear that on the League, Dick's role as Bat-lite would only be reinforced.

I'm definitely down with "Agent 37 but as Nightwing" and that's largely the keystone of my own ideas (as well as a collaboration with dropkickjake that turned out really well) and I don't think leaning on Dick's relationships and connections to groups like the JLA or Titans is a bad thing at all. But as they're presented these days, neither team really seems likely to help Dick very much.

There's gotta be two other teams that will achieve a similar result (Dick can always visit his old Titans friends whether they're on a team roster or not) but is a little more surprising and unexpected.

[QUOTE=Ascended;5260149]Generally I think it's a fine idea. Plenty of people have protected their own city while also doing double (triple?) duty on more than one team. Dick could totally do this and I'd love to see him get that much exposure. I assume you'd have him in the League book as well right?

My only nitpick with the concept is the teams in question. I don't see the Titans being a good place for Dick right now (or any of the other classic members). At this point it's just regression, not growth, with no clear way forward. Not an impossible problem to overcome but a "let's just re-tell old NTT stories!" does not work. And the League won't end up being a benefit either, I don't think. The League is where the A-listers go, it's not the book that *elevates* characters to the A-list (just look at Vic and J'onn). I fear that on the League, Dick's role as Bat-lite would only be reinforced.

I'm definitely down with "Agent 37 but as Nightwing" and that's largely the keystone of my own ideas (as well as a collaboration with dropkickjake that turned out really well) and I don't think leaning on Dick's relationships and connections to groups like the JLA or Titans is a bad thing at all. But as they're presented these days, neither team really seems likely to help Dick very much.[/QUOTE]

I get what you're saying but I believe it can work for nightwing in this way, because 1) nightwing as a leaguer doesn't have to be in the JL teambooks. Nightwing's solo would be his JL book, it will focus on nightwing as a globetrotting hero on solo league missions with some team ups here and there. Plus interactions with Leaguer at the hall of justice or watchtower as his "st.hadrains. dick doesn't even have be in a league teambooks (maybe some group shots) his solo will do the talking with him as the star and focus.

I believe you saw YJ.Outsiders right? Just imagine on one of his globetrotting missions but instead of it being for the team, it's his JL missions. Solo missions with some team ups with other leaguers from time to time. But its nightwing's solo book. Dick can visit Gotham and the batfamily in the others batbooks.

As for the titans well as I said dick can be both so he can have his solo Grayson style JL nightwing book independent of the titans. So titans can take its long rest and his JL solo can go on independently with batfamily teambook.

The only thing I liked from Future State was that Nightwing costume. Returning to the blue and gold felt fresh, but a Deathstroke mask kind of ruins it. The mask could have been blue and gold at least to match, lol. Now that Nightwing might not even be Dick? And I just have no interest in Red X as a character and the Titans look like it will be awful like usual. My expectation are so low after Future State I have no idea what toe expect when this mess is over.

Speaking of future state nightwing doesn't seem to have a future legacy of his own? No future Nightwing, DC really do view nightwing as just another sidekick don't they.