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[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5116539]I just found out Lost Carnival has a free digital preview issue
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You know, it is a little strange to me they would make a OGN about him when he is younger, but instead of setting it when he was Robin, which you think would allow for a lot more story potential, they set it while he was still in the circus. I wonder why they didn't just give him a Robin OGN.
Boy has been raped a lot and they sweep it under the rug. It would maybe be a good idea to explore that. I hope Dick can actually be happy. Dc has crapped on him so much when they put him in relationships
[QUOTE=Badou;5116672]You know, it is a little strange to me they would make a OGN about him when he is younger, but instead of setting it when he was Robin, which you think would allow for a lot more story potential, they set it while he was still in the circus. I wonder why they didn't just give him a Robin OGN.[/QUOTE]
I think Hudson U would be a great setting for a YA Robin novel. But I hope Garcia and Piccolo gets around to a Robin graphic novel eventually.
[QUOTE=Pohzee;5116680]I think Hudson U would be a great setting for a YA Robin novel. But I hope Garcia and Piccolo gets around to a Robin graphic novel eventually.[/QUOTE]
If he gets that it would truly be a dream come true for the guy. With how much he loves the 2003 TT.
Given how DC handled his family and friends reactions to him being shot in the head, I wouldn't trust DC to handle an issue like rape with any sensitivity or tact.
[QUOTE=yohyoi;5116555]Just wait for Titans season 3. Dawn and Dick shipping angered a lot of people even if there was no real relationship. Imagine if they do Babs in a Titans show instead of Kori. The amount of salt will reach Arrow season 4. Young Justice and DCAMU did it right. Young Justice focused on Babs with no Kori in sight. DCAMU focused on Kori with Babs only doing three second cameos. No ship war.
Or DC could risk it and try to create Dick's own Catwoman. But it will anger everyone so they don't do it. DC's play has been letting both side play it out without committing any side winning the war.[/QUOTE]
I really don't care about dick's ships right now but I'll say this. So what! So what if people are pissed, they'll be pissed no matter who dick end up with so why care about that. Just focus on what you feel is best for dick's growth and story's. Pissing off shippers is irrelevant.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5116769]I really don't care about dick's ships right now but I'll say this. So what! So what if people are pissed, they'll be pissed no matter who dick end up with so why care about that. Just focus on what you feel is best for dick's growth and story's. Pissing off shippers is irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
Babs is not good for Dick's growth and story's, nor for the Titan's that have not had a chance of an arc. Neither is Gotham for that matter...That damn show is an ongoing disappointment.
[QUOTE=Rakiduam;5116774]Babs is not good for Dick's growth and story's, nor for the Titan's that have not had a chance of an arc. Neither is Gotham for that matter...That damn show is an ongoing disappointment.[/QUOTE]
I agree. I'm not a dickbabs fan and I would like dick to have more independence from gotham.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5116769]I really don't care about dick's ships right now but I'll say this. So what! So what if people are pissed, they'll be pissed no matter who dick end up with so why care about that. Just focus on what you feel is best for dick's growth and story's. Pissing off shippers is irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
This. Fans are going to freak out no matter what. Creators shouldn't be trying to appease fans anyway, just tell the best story they can in the best way they can while respecting the IP. If you respect the property and its history, most fans will come around anyway, eventually.
But I can always break down exactly why a Power Girl ship is good for the franchise from a creative and business perspective. :p
[QUOTE=Badou;5116672]You know, it is a little strange to me they would make a OGN about him when he is younger, but instead of setting it when he was Robin, which you think would allow for a lot more story potential, they set it while he was still in the circus. I wonder why they didn't just give him a Robin OGN.[/QUOTE]
The OGNs are totally independent from continuity. They only use the characters (although even the personality es could be change sometimes).
The writer likely want to tell a "coming of age" story with Dick Grayson where his parents were still alive.
In this story, Dick is younger, but he is close to start College and he will likely never become Robin or Nightwing.
Bilquis Evely is drawing Nightwing and the others members of the Batfamily in a future issue of Detective Comics.
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgTcANFWsAEbiPP?format=jpg&name=small[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Pohzee;5116680]I think Hudson U would be a great setting for a YA Robin novel. But I hope Garcia and Piccolo gets around to a Robin graphic novel eventually.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure that's happening anytime soon. The next novel is "Beast Boy Loves Raven" or something like that, so they're taking their time with all this. It's a little disappointing, since the initial announcement was that this would be a six book series, and now we see that the third one isn't even about a third Titan. I really thought we'd get one book for each iconic Titan, with a final book about the team but they're not really going the predictable route.
[QUOTE=Grayson - The Dark Heir;5117324]I'm not sure that's happening anytime soon. The next novel is "Beast Boy Loves Raven" or something like that, so they're taking their time with all this. It's a little disappointing, since the initial announcement was that this would be a six book series, and now we see that the third one isn't even about a third Titan. I really thought we'd get one book for each iconic Titan, with a final book about the team but they're not really going the predictable route.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. It is pretty possible they want to focus their story on Raven and Beast Boy.
If they want the Titans team in a six book series, they would likely have brought the team together in book 1 or 2.
One of the most important things about the editorial is at least trying to make the story flow or have some guidelines in writing the character. With Dick, it seems there are no guidelines. If you were to run the Batman office what guidelines for how Dick interacts with the Batfam and his own book would you put
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5117395]One of the most important things about the editorial is at least trying to make the story flow or have some guidelines in writing the character. With Dick, it seems there are no guidelines. If you were to run the Batman office what guidelines for how Dick interacts with the Batfam and his own book would you put[/QUOTE]
There are likely some guidelines in the Batman office, but I really doubt these benefit Dick.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5117395]One of the most important things about the editorial is at least trying to make the story flow or have some guidelines in writing the character. With Dick, it seems there are no guidelines. If you were to run the Batman office what guidelines for how Dick interacts with the Batfam and his own book would you put[/QUOTE]
Not just another Robin. It's not a level playing field and they aren't equals.
[QUOTE=Konja7;5117454]There are likely some guidelines in the Batman office, but I really doubt these benefit Dick.[/QUOTE]
They would have to be taken seriously. The thing is sadly TT editorial is bad. He only has one book so it's not like he can get his own editorial for exclusive him. That would be great.
[QUOTE=Drako;5116569]Shawn Tsang was basically his Catwoman and people hated, even in this forum.
Some really lost their mind when she thought she was pregnant.[/QUOTE]
I thought people liked Shawn well enough, it was just Bludhaven in general they were souring on.
[QUOTE=Badou;5116672]You know, it is a little strange to me they would make a OGN about him when he is younger, but instead of setting it when he was Robin, which you think would allow for a lot more story potential, they set it while he was still in the circus. I wonder why they didn't just give him a Robin OGN.[/QUOTE]
Most of these GN's have focused on the heroes before they take up their costume identity.
[QUOTE=Grayson - The Dark Heir;5117324]I'm not sure that's happening anytime soon. The next novel is "Beast Boy Loves Raven" or something like that, so they're taking their time with all this. It's a little disappointing, since the initial announcement was that this would be a six book series, and now we see that the third one isn't even about a third Titan. I really thought we'd get one book for each iconic Titan, with a final book about the team but they're not really going the predictable route.[/QUOTE]
Maybe 4 and 5 are Cyborg and Starfire and then Robin rounds it up for the 6th book.
[url]https://www.cbr.com/nightwing-teen-titans-batman-family-new-costume-darkness/[/url]
[QUOTE=Frontier;5117741]I thought people liked Shawn well enough, it was just Bludhaven in general they were souring on.
Most of these GN's have focused on the heroes before they take up their costume identity.
Maybe 4 and 5 are Cyborg and Starfire and then Robin rounds it up for the 6th book.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about here, but the pregnancy did make some people lost their minds because it's a ship sinker. As long as he doesn't have kids or get married, the two biggest ships have hope that he will finally pick one.
I'm one of those who disliked Shawn since her first appearance but liked Seeley's Bludhaven. And I didn't lost my mind about a pregnancy that would have never happened. Probably that's something wrong with me, but, imho Shawn was no more than Bea and nothing like Selina.
Still, I don't get why every Nightwing's new writer keeps erasing his supporting cast and bring some brand new character.
Picolo is Titans fan, and he is a Dick/Kory fan too. I'm kinda sure there will be at least a book for every Titan.
[QUOTE=L.H.;5119473]I'm one of those who disliked Shawn since her first appearance but liked Seeley's Bludhaven. And I didn't lost my mind about a pregnancy that would have never happened. Probably that's something wrong with me, but, imho Shawn was no more than Bea and nothing like Selina.
Still, I don't get why every Nightwing's new writer keeps erasing his supporting cast and bring some brand new character.
Picolo is Titans fan, and he is a Dick/Kory fan too. I'm kinda sure there will be at least a book for every Titan.[/QUOTE]
I said that she was his catwoman only cause of her criminal past, but other than that she is doesn't have much in common with Selina.
To be honest, Shawn felt like plate spinning and I just never really bought into her as a character the same way Silver St. Cloud didn't work for me as Bruce's love interest.
Anyway, his love life needs a rest. It's become this albatross around his neck and the shippers are turning the fandom into some stupid turf war more about who "wins" than anything in the story.
And I like both ships, for heaven's sake! But give them a rest.
[QUOTE=L.H.;5119473]I'm one of those who disliked Shawn since her first appearance but liked Seeley's Bludhaven. And I didn't lost my mind about a pregnancy that would have never happened. Probably that's something wrong with me, but, imho Shawn was no more than Bea and nothing like Selina.
Still, I don't get why every Nightwing's new writer keeps erasing his supporting cast and bring some brand new character.
Picolo is Titans fan, and he is a Dick/Kory fan too. I'm kinda sure there will be at least a book for every Titan.[/QUOTE]
Shawn was nothing like Bea. Shawn had an actual backstory, and was use to help introduced new story and challenges into the book and Bludhaven. Bea is literally just the first random chick Ric ran into. After readers started making fun of Ric for being a hobo, Lobdell tried to add experiences with the homeless to fill her out, but that was just another attempt to spin his poor writing back at readers. But 2 years in she has no real character, and her only purpose is to act as Ric's damsel in distress and give the character one thing to care about in this poorly constructed world they contained him in.
I think if you were to make a list of qualities a viable love interest would need, Shawn would check off a lot of those boxes. But the execution just didn't nail it. Too rushed maybe. Maybe too many of the boxes were checked and it felt too artificial, or maybe I'm just a cynical old bastard and never expected the character to last beyond the run.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5119984]I think if you were to make a list of qualities a viable love interest would need, Shawn would check off a lot of those boxes. But the execution just didn't nail it. Too rushed maybe. Maybe too many of the boxes were checked and it felt too artificial, or maybe I'm just a cynical old bastard and never expected the character to last beyond the run.[/QUOTE]
I think Seeley addressed the "rushed" complaints in that he felt with modern comics he kind of had to quicken things up to make it as significant as it needed to be.
[QUOTE=Robanker;5119498]To be honest, Shawn felt like plate spinning and I just never really bought into her as a character the same way Silver St. Cloud didn't work for me as Bruce's love interest.
Anyway, his love life needs a rest. It's become this albatross around his neck and the shippers are turning the fandom into some stupid turf war more about who "wins" than anything in the story.
And I like both ships, for heaven's sake! But give them a rest.[/QUOTE]
I think Silver St. Cloud is pretty underrated, honestly.
Definitely rushed. I read Seeley's answer, but I still think it's not a good idea, especially with someone in the middle of ship war like Dick.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5119984]I think if you were to make a list of qualities a viable love interest would need, Shawn would check off a lot of those boxes. But the execution just didn't nail it. Too rushed maybe. Maybe too many of the boxes were checked and it felt too artificial, or maybe I'm just a cynical old bastard and never expected the character to last beyond the run.[/QUOTE]
I hate to say it, but there's also longevity. Dick's an 80 year-old character. Introducing a new character and 30 issues later she's The One^TM just isn't going to work no matter how well-executed because most fans have been sitting with their preferred ship for, what, 5+ years? To win them over, we gotta see that new character not only have good chemistry but prove themselves in their own right. If he didn't already have a strong ship, it wouldn't be hard for her to catch on, but she did.
Linda Park didn't have a lot of competition for Wally so that was an easier path. He had, who, Magenta? Not exactly Lois Lane or Mary Jane Watson.
I don't think there's a machete strong enough to cut through the DickBabs and DickFire marsh, so Shawn needed to really sell people over a long period of time before most fans felt she was worthy, so to speak. Much like Val-Zod and PG, it happened way too soon with a relative nobody who had yet to establish themselves as a strong character in their own right and just wasn't meant to be. As such, Shawn was just marked as the run's love-interest of the year to be forgotten when a new team takes over.
See: every Batman love interest that isn't Catwoman, Talia or perhaps Diana.
Dick in particular has such a raging shipping war, however, I don't think Shawn ever really had a chance.
[QUOTE=Robanker;5120097]I hate to say it, but there's also longevity. Dick's an 80 year-old character. Introducing a new character and 30 issues later she's The One^TM just isn't going to work no matter how well-executed because most fans have been sitting with their preferred ship for, what, 5+ years? To win them over, we gotta see that new character not only have good chemistry but prove themselves in their own right. If he didn't already have a strong ship, it wouldn't be hard for her to catch on, but she did.
Linda Park didn't have a lot of competition for Wally so that was an easier path. He had, who, Magenta? Not exactly Lois Lane or Mary Jane Watson.
I don't think there's a machete strong enough to cut through the DickBabs and DickFire marsh, so Shawn needed to really sell people over a long period of time before most fans felt she was worthy, so to speak. Much like Val-Zod and PG, it happened way too soon with a relative nobody who had yet to establish themselves as a strong character in their own right and just wasn't meant to be. As such, Shawn was just marked as the run's love-interest of the year to be forgotten when a new team takes over.
See: every Batman love interest that isn't Catwoman, Talia or perhaps Diana.
Dick in particular has such a raging shipping war, however, I don't think Shawn ever really had a chance.[/QUOTE]
True but I think you forgot one more detail. Shawn as a new character didn't have her own fanbase to back her. If dick's new love interest already has a some what strong fanbase of her own she would stand alot better chance.
The baby is in Justice League Jason Fabok variant
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[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5121543]The baby is in Justice League Jason Fabok variant
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What issue is this for? This is the first I'm seeing it
I think Fabok made that to decorate his son's bedroom.
[QUOTE=Grayson - The Dark Heir;5122038]What issue is this for? This is the first I'm seeing it[/QUOTE]
the poster didn't mention. I assume it's one of the Doom Metal
[QUOTE=Pohzee;5122041]I think Fabok made that to decorate his son's bedroom.[/QUOTE]
oh
[QUOTE=Robanker;5120097]I hate to say it, but there's also longevity.
I don't think there's a machete strong enough to cut through the DickBabs and DickFire marsh, so Shawn needed to really sell people over a long period of time before most fans felt she was worthy, so to speak.
Dick in particular has such a raging shipping war, however, I don't think Shawn ever really had a chance.[/QUOTE]
That's the thing, we're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. Nightwing fandom is pretty passionately split along the Babs/Kori divide, and Babs will never work as a love interest as long as DC is pursuing her as a solo character (including her co-leading the BoP), and Kori will never work as long as DC is intent on keeping Dick more connected to Gotham than Titans Tower.
If DC decided to seriously go with either of those two, the other half of the fandom would revolt and are damn unlikely to embrace the "other side" winning. If DC tries to introduce someone new, it has to be spun out over the long term. It has to be built slowly, so the fans *want* to see a relationship develop and are actively yelling about how long it's taking DC to pull the trigger. But for that to happen, you need people at DC who are interested and capable of that long-term investment, as well as a love interest who is worth rooting for.
What's the first thing you don't like happened to Dick and how'd you do it?
He lost his memory for so long. With the number of people in DC this issue would be solved. Diana's lasso can fix any broken mind. Not enough time with Clark. I mean he is after all why Dick got his Nightwing name
[QUOTE=Ascended;5122610]That's the thing, we're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. Nightwing fandom is pretty passionately split along the Babs/Kori divide, and Babs will never work as a love interest as long as DC is pursuing her as a solo character (including her co-leading the BoP), and Kori will never work as long as DC is intent on keeping Dick more connected to Gotham than Titans Tower.
If DC decided to seriously go with either of those two, the other half of the fandom would revolt and are damn unlikely to embrace the "other side" winning. If DC tries to introduce someone new, it has to be spun out over the long term. It has to be built slowly, so the fans *want* to see a relationship develop and are actively yelling about how long it's taking DC to pull the trigger. But for that to happen, you need people at DC who are interested and capable of that long-term investment, as well as a love interest who is worth rooting for.[/QUOTE]
Why not both with Gotham and Titans. He is also well known for being in the Titans. So it's not like he can't be in the T-tower. When it comes to Babs or Kori. I think like they did with elsewhere stories work. We have him married to Kori in a few. So that solves it. They would never have him settle. Despite Starfire being his first love interest(in terms of with teammates). I mean Babs was older than him first. I mean that was one thing I was hoping for another difference he actually is in a lasting relationship, unlike Bruce and Catwoman. The best way why not being in another exes.However, you can please everyone so he can't be in a relationship at all it seems. I mean it's no difference from Selina orTalia. Why can't they pick one until the next reboot?
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5123393]Why not both with Gotham and Titans. [/QUOTE]
For the same reason Bruce doesn't have Clark and Barry fix Gotham. Dick and Bruce might be part of teams in the wider DCU, but they're Bats first and foremost, which means their interactions with the supernatural and superhuman are largely limited to those team books (discounting the occasional low/mid-tier meta like Blockbuster or Croc) and their solo stuff is largely non-powered, street level vigilante adventures.
For Dick and Kori to be together, DC would have to acknowledge the Titans as something more than just the team Dick is sometimes a part of; they'd have to admit that the Titans side of Dick's history is a actual part of his personal life that matters to him, and not just a side gig.
DC *could* get Dick and Kori back together. But they won't, because that puts too much superhuman into the book when DC wants Dick limited to being a Bat.
For the same reason, we won't get the Nightwing-Power Girl ship that I endorse either. A flying alien, in a book about gritty street vigilantism? Perish the thought!
DC will likely just keep flip flopping between Babs and Kori, using one or the other for various "possible future" stories and adaptations, while the main canon cycles through short-term girlfriends who amount to less than Shawn did, with the occasional "will they/won't they" tease involving Babs (and Kori once in a while) without actually committing to anything. Which is a piss poor way to handle things, but is easier than actually putting any real thought or effort into the situation.
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5122042]the poster didn't mention. I assume it's one of the Doom Metal
[/QUOTE]It says Fabok 2017 on it, so it's too old for that. It would have to be a Rebirth era issue.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5122610]That's the thing, we're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. Nightwing fandom is pretty passionately split along the Babs/Kori divide, and Babs will never work as a love interest as long as DC is pursuing her as a solo character (including her co-leading the BoP), and Kori will never work as long as DC is intent on keeping Dick more connected to Gotham than Titans Tower.
If DC decided to seriously go with either of those two, the other half of the fandom would revolt and are damn unlikely to embrace the "other side" winning. If DC tries to introduce someone new, it has to be spun out over the long term. It has to be built slowly, so the fans *want* to see a relationship develop and are actively yelling about how long it's taking DC to pull the trigger. But for that to happen, you need people at DC who are interested and capable of that long-term investment, as well as a love interest who is worth rooting for.[/QUOTE]
And therein lies the rub. Sadly, I don't see it ever resolving. I'm among those converted to the first church of PowerWing-- long may it reign-- but what it really comes down to is that the shipping war is scorching the Grayson earth. Both sides demand to see him with one while the run is going on and won't shut their mouths until he hooks up with Barbara/Kory and afterward the other half demand the change. His life cannot be about anything but which redhead he's interested in because a large portion of his fanbase are so in love with him that they just want his book to be about his love life. I'm convinced it should be a YA book series about Dick Grayson and his love triangle. That shit would sell more than anything. Probably get adapted into a CW show. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.
More than anything, the new Nightwing series needs to establish early on that he's just come back from the whole Ric thing and really, [B]really[/B] just wants some time on his own. Have him team up with both love interests independently, not follow a romance yet (fine, bait the hook but don't commit to keep them buying) and just be about Dick Grayson for a while. Again, I like both ships, but that fandom needs to be starved a while because the character is becoming toxic to the idea of stories revolving around anything else other than who he's hooking up with.
[QUOTE=Robanker;5123896]And therein lies the rub. Sadly, I don't see it ever resolving.[/QUOTE]
Possible. But let's keep in mind that DC is under new management and the corporate structure has been completely upended. It is entirely possible that Dick starts getting better treatment going forward. Hell, he's already started getting better treatment than the last few years gave us, a little consistency and world building in his book isn't a huge stretch. The love interest is a quagmire they'll likely put off on resolving for a while (it's not a necessary element of the narrative while also being a huge pain in the ass) but if the character gets some real effort, this aspect of the IP will eventually have to be tackled too.
Given that AT&T seem to be big on synergy and the adaptation potential of the source material, and considering how popular Dick is in larger media, his odds of quality treatment might actually be higher than the odds of him still getting marginalized. I mean, if the goal now really is to push these IP's into bigger, new markets, Nightwing is better positioned than a lot of characters for it and if AT&T have half a brain, they'll recognize that. And this isn't even my fandom talking, this is the business. Far as I can tell, Dick is a IP that already does fairly well in larger media and still has plenty of growth potential.
Do we know how his YA OGN sold? I gave it a quick Google but didn't find anything.