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[QUOTE=Frontier;5265609]Yeah, and I assume he'll be the head teacher so he'll probably be the "face" of the book in that respect.[/QUOTE]
I know I'm being a downer sorry about that but if you think nightwing's gonna be the "face" of a TEEN titans book wit an all new cast of characters., than nightwing fans haven't learned anything over the past decade.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5265681]I know I'm being a downer sorry about that but if you think nightwing's gonna be the "face" of a TEEN titans book wit an all new cast of characters., than nightwing fans haven't learned anything over the past decade.[/QUOTE]
On the other hand, who better to teach the Titans how to survive editorial hits?
I'd read a one-shot about Dick teaching people to survive events where they're in the crosshairs. :p
Yea dick should teach them things like how to do the perfect squat for the perfect booty :p.
Ya, it’s probably going to be like when Titans had its team shift. He’ll be the marketing face, but narratively he’ll be a prop. TT just ran out of marketable characters so they found an excuse to import older members to try and help sell the current crop of kids.
That The Last Stories of the DC Universe thing was just awful for Dick, imo.
[spoil]So Dick decides to randomly leave that big gathering of Titans characters to go and meet Batman, and after he leaves Wally shows up. Donna is the one to confront him and hug him. Then later a zombie Roy comes back to help them with them greeting him back with even Wally and Roy giving a nod to each other, but even after Dick returns and is seen with the Titans again he has zero interaction with Wally or Roy. So no reunion between them or if there was then it happened completely off panel. So that pretty much ends Dick ever getting to address anything that happened with Wally or Roy now. For being the "face" of the Titans Nightwing did nothing and Donna was the one to do everything and give the speech, lol.
Then in the Batman family part of the issue Dick is just bugging Babs the whole time because he wants to "tell her something" with Babs doing her best to shoot down anything he wants to say. Then Bruce steps in and Dick then gets to ask Babs to marry him and then Bruce "marries" them before they go into the big battle. Dick just came across as so annoying in it to me, and it is made worse by how Dick in the last issue of Nightwing with all that terrible Bea drama with Dick saying how much he loved her.[/spoil]
[QUOTE=Badou;5265960]That The Last Stories of the DC Universe thing was just awful for Dick, imo.
[spoil]So Dick decides to randomly leave that big gathering of Titans characters to go and meet Batman, and after he leaves Wally shows up. Donna is the one to confront him and hug him. Then later a zombie Roy comes back to help them with them greeting him back with even Wally and Roy giving a nod to each other, but even after Dick returns and is seen with the Titans again he has zero interaction with Wally or Roy. So no reunion between them or if there was then it happened completely off panel. So that pretty much ends Dick ever getting to address anything that happened with Wally or Roy now. For being the "face" of the Titans Nightwing did nothing and Donna was the one to do everything and give the speech, lol.
Then in the Batman family part of the issue Dick is just bugging Babs the whole time because he wants to "tell her something" with Babs doing her best to shoot down anything he wants to say. Then Bruce steps in and Dick then gets to ask Babs to marry him and then Bruce "marries" them before they go into the big battle. Dick just came across as so annoying in it to me, and it is made worse by how Dick in the last issue of Nightwing with all that terrible Bea drama with Dick saying how much he loved her.[/spoil][/QUOTE]
Completely agree.
[spoil]It's a shame that the writers do not care about his relationships with other heroes at all. The platonic ones are completely disregarded - here and in Tec - and every love interest just makes him look desperate. Especially Babs. Not that I expected much from Castellucci.[/spoil]
I hope the Endless Winter TT special is set before this and FS + March ignores it all. It is titled the Last Stories, so there is hope.
DC eats its own tail, what else is new. Dick is still the face of the Titans brand though. For better or worse. He still remains the one they market around, despite not actually doing anything with him narratively. Thats just more of the same problem with him when it comes to the Titans reading it head. “He has a solo” so the Titans refuse to actually do anything with him or use him how they market him, despite him being the brands biggest character. Thats along the same line here. He has another Bat storyline in the issue, so the Titans story has nothing for him.
It’s counterproductive, but that’s how the Titans is for Dick. Do a big Titans reunion, have Hume make an appearance, but write Dick out to go do Bat things. But at least it was Donna. If Dick is the face, Donna’s the heart. Note though how you don’t see Donna on one Future State TTs cover or marketing though. It’s just like how they launched the new Titans direction by having Roy mock and beat him up right before those characters all left and Nightwing had to assemble this new direction.
[spoil]And Dick propose to Babs even though we just saw him crying for Bea. I’m shocked. Shocked I tell you.[/spoil]
Dickbabs cannon again
[QUOTE=Avi;5265977]Completely agree.
[spoil]It's a shame that the writers do not care about his relationships with other heroes at all. The platonic ones are completely disregarded - here and in Tec - and every love interest just makes him look desperate. Especially Babs. Not that I expected much from Castellucci.[/spoil]
I hope the Endless Winter TT special is set before this and FS + March ignores it all. It is titled the Last Stories, so there is hope.[/QUOTE]
[spoil]The Wally and Roy thing really bugged me. The Babs thing is whatever. I don't expect it to last or matter given he was just crying his eyes out about Bea a month ago. I'm just done with comic romances at this point, but not having Dick have any interaction with Wally and Roy really bothered me. We will never get to see what Dick's reaction was when he learned what happened to them, and now we will never get a proper reunion with them either. It was kind of the only thing I was interested in seeing with Dick's return from being Ric. All they needed was one stupid panel of Dick with his arms around both Wally and zombie Roy and it would have been something at least, but now it is nothing.[/spoil]
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5265992]DC eats its own tail, what else is new. Dick is still the face of the Titans brand though. For better or worse. He still remains the one they market around, despite not actually doing anything with him narratively. Thats just more of the same problem with him when it comes to the Titans. “He has a solo” so the Titans refuse to actually do anything with him or use him how they market him, despite him being the brands biggest character. That along the same line here. It’s counterproductive, but that’s DC’s comic management for you. Note how you don’t see Donna on one Future State TTs cover or marketing though. It’s just like how they launched the new Titans direction by having Roy mock and beat him up right before those characters all left and Nightwing had to assemble this new direction.
[spoil]And Dick propose to Babs even though we just saw him crying for Bea. I’m shocked. Shocked I tell you.[/spoil][/QUOTE]
We've had this argument before, but I just don't think Dick will ever be the face of the Titans. At least not fully. Robin will always be the face. So I don't see Dick or Nightwing ever being able to supplant Robin as the iconic face of the Titans. You could even argue that Raven, Cyborg, Starfire, and Beast Boy are more recognizable Titans than Nightwing in the general population. They obviously sell a ton more Titans related merch than Nightwing does given their exposure, but Nightwing is the bigger comics character because of Dick's history. It's just an odd situation. So I really don't think it has anything to do with Dick being a solo character since even before Dick was a solo hero he had awful Titans stories for years and years. It's just that leader role on the Titans, which generally ends up being a Bat character, always end up with them bearing the brunt of the awfulness of the Titans stories. Tim and Damian went through that recently with their Titans runs.
The same thing will happen again with Titans Academy probably. Dick acting as the authority figure and the one that will get knocked around or challenged to push the new young Titans characters. I've read enough X-Men to know these story beats. If Roy is back watch him challenge Dick's teaching methods or something and they get into another fight like always, lol.
Dick is Robin and Nightwing. We had this argument before, but where is Dick not at the forefront of the Titans. Cartoons, Tv show, even the comics sell him at the forefront even though the comics actual narratives undermine it. And Tim and Damian were unquestionably at the center of their last Titans runs narrative. They weren’t just background props like Dick ends up being. The stories out of their runs centered around them. They had character arcs and development. Where Dick gets non of that with the Titans anymore, and people just excuse it with well “he has a solo”. Despite him being the one character his Titans series can’t do without.
And the same thing probably will happen with Titans Academy, and it will remain this counterproductive problem. Even though Red X is a persona a version of him created, and next to Red X he’s at the center of all the marketing.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5266041]Dick is Robin and Nightwing. We had this argument before, but where is Dick not at the forefront of the Titans. Cartoons, Tv show, even the comics sell him at the forefront even though the comics actual narratives undermine it. And Tim and Damian were unquestionably at the center of their last Titans runs narrative. They weren’t just background props like Dick ends up being. The stories out of their runs centered around them. They had character arcs and development. Where Dick gets non of that with the Titans anymore, and people just excuse it well “he has a solo”. Despite him being the one character his Titans series can’t do without.
And the same thing probably will happen with Titans Academy, and it will remain this counterproductive problem. Even though Red X is a persona a version of him created.[/QUOTE]
I just think that DC/WB look at Dick/Nightwing and Robin as separate entities now. Robin has kind of morphed into its own character or identity split between all these characters especially spinning out of the Teen Titans cartoons. It isn't just Dick and as more time goes on and the further Dick is removed from that Robin identity I think the stronger that separation will get. Then because Robin will always be the iconic leader of the Titans and not Nightwing Dick is kind of stuck behind his own creation in a way.
But I hesitate to call what Tim and Damian experienced in their recent Titans runs "development". It was more regression, but Tim had a solo book and has been on the Titans without a lot of issues during the Johns era, right? Not like Tim's solo was an issue for him back then, and in Dick's last Titans run he was at the center. Abnett's second run was built around Dick's own personal experience with that woman he couldn't save and him reforming the team. It's just Abnett didn't understand Dick's character and wrote him horribly, but he was a big focus of it before getting shot in the head.
I mean before Abnett when was the last Titans team Dick was on? That one that tried to copy the NTT era that ended with Roy hooked on super drugs and Deathstoke missing both eyes before Flashpoint? That is all I remember of how it ended now, haha. He left that team after a year when he became Batman, but that book wasn't very good. It was trying to prop itself up on NTT nostalgia as it immediately did a Trigon story when it launched if I remember right, and then into a traitor story. Then before that Titans book Dick was on that Outsiders team (which was launched after The Titans series ended with Graduation Day) where he was the main focus in the beginning. Dick formed that new Outsiders team after Donna died, right? There was all that drama around that. It's just again despite having a lot of focus he was just written like crap and kind of got abused as the leader with him again having to give up control to Batman. I dunno. That's 20 years of Titans or Titans-like stories and despite Dick getting focus in some of them they weren't very good.
[spoil]I just remembered something from The Last Stories of the DC Universe thing. In that large spread that showed all the different Titans teams through the eras and reboots. Nightwing wasn't in any of them. It was Dick as Robin in the 70s Teen Titans and in the 80s New Teen Titans. Stuff like that is what makes me think Robin will always be the more iconic character than Nightwing when it comes to the Titans. A Robin character was in 5 of the 7 Titans lineups. Only a Flash character had more than 3.[/spoil]
When is the last time we have seen Robin with out eventually Nightwing. I think it’s clear they see Nightwing as part of Robins overall mythos now. Not 2 different characters, but both part of the same character and overall mythos.
Just because the runs weren’t good, doesn’t mean they weren’t the center pieces that drove the narrative of those runs. Having a solo doesn’t have to be a problem, but nevertheless it has served as an excuse to ignore or just use Dick as a prop this last decade. Abnett had 20+ issues to do something with the character, did nothing till they forced him to have to, then bang he’s gone. And then the book was gone. No character arc, no development, nothing said beyond doest being the JLs bitch undermine your character as a concept lol. They literally had to take every other character away from Abnett to get him to do something with Dick. The one character his book was proven couldn’t exists without.
When was the last time his solo was any good. It’s no different on either side. They get what they give. It has to be an accident for us to get something good. Nevertheless Titans is where the opportunity is at these days. So it’d be foolhardy to forsake Titans with him just because the comics have been bad. He is tethered to the Titans, and always will be regardless. It’s fruitless to fight it.
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;5266010]Dickbabs cannon again[/QUOTE]
...For now.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5265681]I know I'm being a downer sorry about that but if you think nightwing's gonna be the "face" of a TEEN titans book wit an all new cast of characters., than nightwing fans haven't learned anything over the past decade.[/QUOTE]
I think the juggling of the old and new characters will be what makes or breaks the book.
[QUOTE=Badou;5265960]That The Last Stories of the DC Universe thing was just awful for Dick, imo.
[spoil]So Dick decides to randomly leave that big gathering of Titans characters to go and meet Batman, and after he leaves Wally shows up. Donna is the one to confront him and hug him. Then later a zombie Roy comes back to help them with them greeting him back with even Wally and Roy giving a nod to each other, but even after Dick returns and is seen with the Titans again he has zero interaction with Wally or Roy. So no reunion between them or if there was then it happened completely off panel. So that pretty much ends Dick ever getting to address anything that happened with Wally or Roy now. For being the "face" of the Titans Nightwing did nothing and Donna was the one to do everything and give the speech, lol.
Then in the Batman family part of the issue Dick is just bugging Babs the whole time because he wants to "tell her something" with Babs doing her best to shoot down anything he wants to say. Then Bruce steps in and Dick then gets to ask Babs to marry him and then Bruce "marries" them before they go into the big battle. Dick just came across as so annoying in it to me, and it is made worse by how Dick in the last issue of Nightwing with all that terrible Bea drama with Dick saying how much he loved her.[/spoil][/QUOTE]
This all sounds kind of...all over the place.