Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[QUOTE=Ascended;5095981]That would be my assumption too, I'm just saying they *could* do something different with him.

I'm sure Dick, if he ends up on a team again at all, will be on a League title or a Titans team. That's a safe bet, but we don't *know* he will, and with a big shake up like we seem to be getting, some characters might end up in some odd places just so they have somewhere to go at all.

I mean, if the line gets cut down to the bare basics, will there even be a League B-team at all? Hell, will there even be a Titans? Unless the current run is doing better than I think it is, that's a franchise that hasn't sold well in a long time, so will it's pedigree be enough to keep it around or will DC say "Well, we've only got X books now, do we have room for a title that's in the bottom half of our sales?"[/QUOTE]

Well, Titans will probably sell better if it is the only place where you can read about Dick.

The Titans is still a relatively popular brand, so I can see that DC release a cómic.

[QUOTE=Digifiend;5095887]That roster will never happen, you have four out of five Robins (only Spoiler is missing), all three Kid Flashes, and both Wonder Girls.
I don't think YJ will last much longer either. The cover of #20 (shown on Bendis's Instagram) shows the whole team in a generic pose. Very much what you'd expect from a Final Issue. We'll know in two hours 15 minutes when the solicits are out.[/QUOTE]

To be fair, almost all the covers have been generic poses.

[QUOTE=Digifiend;5095887]That roster will never happen, you have four out of five Robins (only Spoiler is missing), all three Kid Flashes, and both Wonder Girls.
I don't think YJ will last much longer either. The cover of #20 (shown on Bendis's Instagram) shows the whole team in a generic pose. Very much what you'd expect from a Final Issue. We'll know in two hours 15 minutes when the solicits are out.[/QUOTE]

It will not happen if Didio was involved because he views them as powers first, but with WB directing they're gonna choose the popular crew of Dick, Kori, Raven, and Beast Boy as main, and the writers will have the freedom to include the rest if they want.

WB's not gonna pay attention too much to details in comics. As long as the money-making characters are up front, they won't care if writers add power copies after that.

For example, WB wants Damian alive for marketing synergy as a Son of Batman and Teen Titans leader to fit their animated movie concept, but they don't really care how Damian is actually treated in the comics. That's up to the writers. They don't care if the Son of Batman is having bad relations with Batman in comics or Injustice, as long as the Son of Batman is there for them to sell. It's going to be like that with every character, team, whatever.

Dick's like that too... he's in all of DCWB's products from comics to LEGO to Titans, Injustice, Arkham, and animated movies, but whether he's treated well is another question they leave up to the writers of each. Even in Snyder movies, they decided to cancel his death and gave it to Jason so they can plan a Nightwing movie

[QUOTE=Konja7;5095987]Well, Titans will probably sell better if it is the only place where you can read about Dick.

The Titans is still a relatively popular brand, so I can see that DC release a cómic.[/QUOTE]

I think in the direct market the Titans are in a weird spot.

The brand is highly successful in larger media. It might actually even be the most successful brand DC has in larger media right now. And it obviously has a strong pedigree in comics.

But larger media success means nothing for floppy sales (otherwise Avengers would sell far better and JLA far worse) and the Titans book/s haven't mattered in-universe or sold well in a long damn time.

If DC cut the Titans out of their line, it wouldn't hurt them at all, especially if they use those characters in OGN's, where they apparently can (and do) find a solid audience. But if DC cull their talent down to the best creators, then the quality of the Titans improves as well, and the Titans are still counted among the "core franchises" of the DCU. So they're kinda worth keeping, and kinda not. It's weird.

I don't think sales on Titans would increase very much if Dick were there. Even if that book was the only place to read about Nightwing. I think there's too much overlap in the fandom; many Nightwing fans are Titans fans as well and will read both books. If Titans were the only place to find Nightwing then sales for Titans would increase a bit, but a lot of those fans would be reading Titans anyway so you're not taking all of Dick's solo sales and adding them to Titans. That doesn't work for the League and won't work here. DC would lose more than they'd gain because instead of buying two books, a lot of those fans would just be buying the one, and there are Nightwing fans who won't read Titans either.

There's also the fact that the Titans brand seems to do better with the teens than the adults. NTT reunions tend to sell decently at first and then crash really hard, while the Teen Titans, with a Robin and a Kid Flash and whatever, seem to hold steady longer and perform marginally better. A NTT reunion at the expense of Dick's solo would not only cost DC some sales but would likely fall apart faster, resulting in even more lost revenue.

Maybe if they tried something like the YJ cartoon or the Johns run where the NTT served as mentors, and the book used both the teens and the adults, you could get some mileage out of it. But I don't see a world where a Titans book can combine it's own sales with Dick's solo sales.

[QUOTE]I don't think YJ will last much longer either. The cover of #20 (shown on Bendis's Instagram) shows the whole team in a generic pose. Very much what you'd expect from a Final Issue. We'll know in two hours 15 minutes when the solicits are out.
[/QUOTE]
You were right. #20 is last issue, series is closed in November. Titans closed as well.
Nightwing still stays.

NIGHTWING #76


written by DAN JURGENS
art by RONAN CLIQUET
cover by TRAVIS MOORE
variant cover by ALAN QUAH
ON SALE 11/17/20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
[I]One bullet robbed Nightwing of his memories and identity. One bullet erased Dick Grayson and replaced him with Ric Grayson. Now, with Dick’s true identity returned, KGBeast is back with one last bullet for him. Using Bea as bait, KGBeast has made it abundantly clear that this one last bullet isn’t intended for Nightwing’s head—this one is aiming to puncture his broken heart!
[/I]

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't think that solicit says "bullet" enough.

[QUOTE=Claude;5096164]NIGHTWING #76


written by DAN JURGENS
art by RONAN CLIQUET
cover by TRAVIS MOORE
variant cover by ALAN QUAH
ON SALE 11/17/20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
[I]One bullet robbed Nightwing of his memories and identity. One bullet erased Dick Grayson and replaced him with Ric Grayson. Now, with Dick’s true identity returned, KGBeast is back with one last bullet for him. Using Bea as bait, KGBeast has made it abundantly clear that this one last bullet isn’t intended for Nightwing’s head—this one is aiming to puncture his broken heart!
[/I]

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't think that solicit says "bullet" enough.[/QUOTE]

To be honest i was expecting "another bullet would give him his life back" :p

the covers:
[IMG]https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/MM8pjgX3YtaZFymDLzWHFa-650-80.jpg.webp[/IMG]
[IMG]https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/hQny3cAkrcWHkeRmE3gNia-650-80.jpg.webp[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Drako;5096227]the covers:
[IMG]https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/MM8pjgX3YtaZFymDLzWHFa-650-80.jpg.webp[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Those thicc lips can only be.... yep, Travis Moore

So it seems Jurgens is sticking around until Metal wraps up and the line relaunches. :( I was kinda hoping 75 would be his last.

I know we've supposedly got a relaunch coming and that'll likely bring in new creators (assuming the book lives) but I would have happily taken a fill-in creator until then. Even a empty, generic "spinning wheels" arc with a no-name writer would've been better than more Jurgens on Nightwing.

"The Original Titans" are also guesting in the last issue of Teen Titans, so presumably Dick's in there too.

But seriously, even if the book itself had been gold-plated - the Jurgens era solicit copy has just been [I]appalling.[/I] Full of awkwardly repeated phrases and typos. They just don't care.

[QUOTE=Claude;5096265]"[B]The Original Titans" are also guesting in the last issue of Teen Titans, so presumably Dick's in there too.[/B]

But seriously, even if the book itself had been gold-plated - the Jurgens era solicit copy has just been [I]appalling.[/I] Full of awkwardly repeated phrases and typos. They just don't care.[/QUOTE]

I think this correlates with the rumors of a new Titans book that Alex Ross accidentally teased on his instagram.

I'm guessing this is Dick as Robin:

[url]https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/status/1294294931670855680/photo/1[/url]

[QUOTE]A beautiful page from JUSTICE LEAGUE #53, the first part of the Death Metal crossover called DOOM METAL. Out in September.
Art by
@Xermanico
& Romulo Fajardo Jr. This issue looks AMAZING.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfZCKRIVAAMEmaj?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]99754[/ATTACH]
Nightwing cart design for Nightwing Annual
Otto Schmidt's words, not mine

Yup, definitely the Metal tie-in arc with Dick, Kori, Vic, Hawkgirl and Detective Chimp. Looks like a "remembering the good days" flashback.

I can't wait to read that arc. Don't even care about Metal, it'll just be nice to read Nightwing again.

...what's up with the bike? Was that from the annual a few months ago? I didn't know Otto did any work in that?

[QUOTE=Drako;5096275]I think this correlates with the rumors of a new Titans book that Alex Ross accidentally teased on his instagram.
[/QUOTE]

Presumably so! The Titans are in Nightwing 75 too, right? Between that and the reunion in Justice League, feels like a bit of a build-up.

An announcement at Fandome next weekend seems possible.

[QUOTE=Ascended;5096292]Yup, definitely the Metal tie-in arc with Dick, Kori, Vic, Hawkgirl and Detective Chimp. Looks like a "remembering the good days" flashback.

I can't wait to read that arc. Don't even care about Metal, it'll just be nice to read Nightwing again.

...what's up with the bike? Was that from the annual a few months ago? I didn't know Otto did any work in that?[/QUOTE]

It's from the annual before he became Ric

I feel like it could be a nice moment if this Death Metal tie-in isn't just a reunion but is also like, the Justice League being like ... okay so ... we're the big seven and you know it and we have all these side-teams and divisions but hey ... you know who would round this Big Seven out to a pretty epic Top Ten? Nightwing, Cyborg and Starfire. Nightwing, the only man Batman trusts (beyond friendship) in the field when he's not there! Starfire ... a SPACE AMAZON ... and Cyborg, who they've already tried to fit into the Justice League inorganically.

What else in Grayson news this week? I hope Bea isn't fridged? She seems like she's going to get fridged. Her existence is problematic purely because she existed within the confines of the "Ric Grayson Storyline" which wouldn't even be a good one-shot, but I'd at least like to see her reduced to a footnote in history from a tale that's like "The Time I Dated An Amnesiac Nightwing" one-shot. Also KGBeast really needs to stop making a big fuss out of everything. He's trying to reconfirm his Nightwing kill ... he's got Batman breaking his neck, Damian coming after him, he is going to draw way too much heat down on himself.

I hope Bea and the fake Nightwings get fridged. Just worthless characters who added nothing of value but even more time is being wasted on her character because the Nightwing book is just spinning its wheels until the relaunch/cancellation at this point. It's completely devoid of anything actually interesting or creative.

I hope the fake Nightwings make it. We straight away get a few Bludhaven PD that Nightwing has a working relationship with. That helps build the setting. The quicker ties are cut with Bea the better though.

[QUOTE=Claude;5096164]NIGHTWING #76


written by DAN JURGENS
art by RONAN CLIQUET
cover by TRAVIS MOORE
variant cover by ALAN QUAH
ON SALE 11/17/20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
[I]One bullet robbed Nightwing of his memories and identity. One bullet erased Dick Grayson and replaced him with Ric Grayson. Now, with Dick’s true identity returned, KGBeast is back with one last bullet for him. Using Bea as bait, KGBeast has made it abundantly clear that this one last bullet isn’t intended for Nightwing’s head—this one is aiming to puncture his broken heart!
[/I]

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't think that solicit says "bullet" enough.[/QUOTE]


Oh fridging! More bad tropes, lovely.

[QUOTE=K. Jones;5096494]I feel like it could be a nice moment if this Death Metal tie-in isn't just a reunion but is also like, the Justice League being like ... okay so ... we're the big seven and you know it and we have all these side-teams and divisions but hey ... you know who would round this Big Seven out to a pretty epic Top Ten? Nightwing, Cyborg and Starfire[/QUOTE]

Don't you dare tempt me with such a beautiful idea!

[QUOTE]KGBeast really needs to stop making a big fuss out of everything. He's trying to reconfirm his Nightwing kill ... he's got Batman breaking his neck, Damian coming after him, he is going to draw way too much heat down on himself.[/QUOTE]

I almost wonder if they're not trying to establish the Beast as a Nightwing rogue, like they did with Blockbuster.

I'm not really against the idea, though KGBeast isn't exactly a high caliber villain.

[QUOTE=DurararaFTW;5096748]I hope the fake Nightwings make it. We straight away get a few Bludhaven PD that Nightwing has a working relationship with. That helps build the setting. The quicker ties are cut with Bea the better though.[/QUOTE]

Shhh! You can't say that here, you'll get yelled at! :)

I actually suggested the same kind of thing a while back; these fakewings could be folded into Dick's supporting cast and with a little time and distance, their time as "Nightwings" is a weird detail in the history, like when Gordon was Batman. A year or two after Ric, a little character development, and these guys would be serviceable members of Dick's supporting cast. But people around here get worked up by the idea of anything from the Ric saga lingering.

Bea....I don't need her fridged, because troupes like that shouldn't be a thing. I'd rather she and Dick just walk away and he never sees or hears from her again.

But if she dies....ain't gonna hurt my feelings either.

Nightwing and Starfire by Otto Schmidt
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Efatx3hXkAE2ti8?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]

[url]https://twitter.com/OttoSchmidt72/status/1294415828713123841/photo/1[/url]

[QUOTE=Drako;5097215]Nightwing and Starfire by Otto Schmidt
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Efatx3hXkAE2ti8?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]

[url]https://twitter.com/OttoSchmidt72/status/1294415828713123841/photo/1[/url][/QUOTE]

I love it!

[QUOTE=Claude;5096164]NIGHTWING #76


written by DAN JURGENS
art by RONAN CLIQUET
cover by TRAVIS MOORE
variant cover by ALAN QUAH
ON SALE 11/17/20
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
[I]One bullet robbed Nightwing of his memories and identity. One bullet erased Dick Grayson and replaced him with Ric Grayson. Now, with Dick’s true identity returned, KGBeast is back with one last bullet for him. Using Bea as bait, KGBeast has made it abundantly clear that this one last bullet isn’t intended for Nightwing’s head—this one is aiming to puncture his broken heart!
[/I]

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't think that solicit says "bullet" enough.[/QUOTE]


See this is why Jurgans needed to be pulled off this book. He’s just turning Nightwing into Ric. This is now the 3rd time he is repeating the same damn story beat back to back. Nightwing is “back” yet it’s the same thing happing with the same Ric characters.

Btw Bea is not gonna get fridged. Just like with Talon, and then a Joker, and now KG Beast.

[QUOTE=Godlike13;5097336]See this is why Jurgans needed to be pulled off this book. He’s just turning Nightwing into Ric. This is now the 3rd time he is repeating the same damn story beat back to back. Nightwing is “back” yet it’s the same thing happing with the same Ric characters.

Btw Bea is not gonna get fridged. Just like with Talon, and then a Joker, and now KG Beast.[/QUOTE]

As awfully redundant as that solicit is, I hope it means he and Bea are breaking up. It's awfully weird to date a guy with amnesia...especially that now with his memories returned, he's basically a different person.

That relationship should be over as soon as Dick was back. Because Dick isn’t Ric. They told us that like 100+ times. It was like every other thing Ric said. Yet here is KG Beast using Bea as bait just like Talon, just like Joker. Aiming for his “broken heart” even though Bea is Ric’s girlfriend. This is just the same creators, doing the same things, with the same characters. Making Dick’s return rather pointless. This is just Ric as Nightwing.

[QUOTE=Godlike13;5097365]That relationship should be over as soon as Dick was back. Because Dick isn’t Ric. They told us that like 100+ times. It was like every other thing Ric said. Yet here is KG Beast using Bea as bait just like Talon, just like Joker. Aiming for his “broken heart” even though Bea is Ric’s girlfriend. This is just the same creators, doing the same things, with the same characters. Making Dick’s return rather pointless. This is just Ric as Nightwing.[/QUOTE]

I think it's pretty obvious that Jurgens is tying up loose ends before we get a new creative team. He's said as much in interviews.

He can claim whatever, just like he claimed Ric was so interesting and then did nothing interesting. He's clearly dragging things out again. His run wasn't particularly complex. His lose end don't require more then one issue to wrap up. Instead though were getting basically just another Ric arc painted with Dick. Dick has returned but what is different here. Gotham Bat villain comes after Dick, Bea gets dangled as bait, this is every Ric story he has told. Whats more. Bea isn't Dick's girlfriend, she was Ric's. How is this even a shot at Dick's heart.
This arc probably will end with Dick and Bea broken up. As that really is the only lose end here. Though that's not something that takes multiple issues as Dick and Bea were never dating in the first place. But Jurgens being Jurgens, here is more dragged out bull crap, literally repeating the same things, regardless if they even makes sense. But all rejoice, Dick is back. Doing exactly what Ric did, with the same lazy creator...

No one hates Nightwing more than Nightwing fans. Some Nightwing fans also hate other Nightwing fans. From debating comics, the writers, ship wars, animated, live action, etc. It never ends. Here, Twitter, Tumblr, Reddit, etc. The only time there is peace is when we are talking about Nightwing's ass.

[QUOTE=yohyoi;5097442]No one hates Nightwing more than Nightwing fans. Some Nightwing fans also hate other Nightwing fans. From debating comics, the writers, ship wars, animated, live action, etc. It never ends. Here, Twitter, Tumblr, Reddit, etc. The only time there is peace is when we are talking about Nightwing's ass.[/QUOTE]

The craptastic two years we've gotten comics-wise aside, it kinda comes with the territory when you have a character as old as Dick Grayson is. There's a ton of different interpretations, you're never going to please everybody.

[QUOTE=Wingin' It;5097447]The craptastic two years we've gotten comics-wise aside, it kinda comes with the territory when you have a character as old as Dick Grayson is. There's a ton of different interpretations, you're never going to please everybody.[/QUOTE]

I agree but compared to other characters we are in a whole different level. The only thing that is equal is Superman fans arguing.

[QUOTE=yohyoi;5097451]I agree but compared to other characters we are in a whole different level. The only thing that is equal is Superman fans arguing.[/QUOTE]

So...the oldest characters with the longest histories and more interpretations? Without counting Batman of course.

I really don't think that complain about complains add too much to any discussion.

[QUOTE=yohyoi;5097442]No one hates Nightwing more than Nightwing fans. Some Nightwing fans also hate other Nightwing fans. From debating comics, the writers, ship wars, animated, live action, etc. It never ends. Here, Twitter, Tumblr, Reddit, etc. The only time there is peace is when we are talking about Nightwing's ass.[/QUOTE]

I think it's more a thing here than any other place. I don't use tumblr, so i can speak about there, but reddit and twitter i only see people complaining about the Ric mess.

[QUOTE=Drako;5097768]I think it's more a thing here than any other place. I don't use Tumblr, so I can speak about there, but Reddit and twitter I only see people complaining about the Ric mess.[/QUOTE]

Tumblr hates Ric too with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 people

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5097772]Tumblr hates Ric too with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 people[/QUOTE]

No surprise. Everybody hates Ric.

[QUOTE=yohyoi;5097451]I agree but compared to other characters we are in a whole different level. The only thing that is equal is Superman fans arguing.[/QUOTE]

Eighty years of history with a lot of highly varied approaches to the character. Yeah of course the fans have different ideas on what they want out of Dick Grayson. He's been a lot of things over the years and we all like certain versions over others.

If you really want to see fans argue, go ask Green Lantern fans which Lantern is the best.

preview of the next issue:
[url]https://comixwire.com/2020/08/15/page-preview-and-covers-of-nightwing-73-comic-a20/[/url]

[QUOTE=Drako;5098272]preview of the next issue:
[url]https://comixwire.com/2020/08/15/page-preview-and-covers-of-nightwing-73-comic-a20/[/url][/QUOTE]

Idk why it's so funny to me that Joker's brainwash includes the memory of The Flying Graysons being deadbeat

I think it's because it's such a typical backstory

Does a court of owls batman game mean good things for our boy?

[QUOTE=Rac7d*;5100552]Does a court of owls batman game mean good things for our boy?[/QUOTE]

does the court of owls comic good for our boy?