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[QUOTE=K. Jones;5064905]That's rad. And eerily reminiscent of the Nightwing costume in my dream that was blue & red.[/QUOTE]
Maybe the theory that our comic books are reflections of real events in other realities is true and you and Mora picked up the same thing? Maybe on another earth somewhere Dick changed his costume :p
That helmet/mask is pretty cool.
[QUOTE=Drako;5064553]Bat Ranger Nightwing by Dan Mora.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/VOBddex.jpg[/IMG]
[url]https://www.instagram.com/p/CC_93Aelq-k/[/url][/QUOTE]
this is so cool.
What is the best version of his costume in the modern-day? I feel like maybe they should have kept compacts in his costume. I mean what's a batfam without their gadget. Oh and the glider needs a comeback. What's so hard about the glider that can be hidden? It fits with his daredevil nature.
[QUOTE=Drako;5064553]Bat Ranger Nightwing by Dan Mora.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/VOBddex.jpg[/IMG]
[url]https://www.instagram.com/p/CC_93Aelq-k/[/url][/QUOTE]
As much as I like the simple look of his classic blue and black costume I'd be up for a complete overhaul to it with something like this. With some kind of full face mask. The classic one is just too simple and I think translates very poorly to live action, but people would probably hate it if they change too much.
[QUOTE=Badou;5066748]As much as I like the simple look of his classic blue and black costume I'd be up for a complete overhaul to it with something like this. With some kind of full face mask. The classic one is just too simple and I think translates very poorly to live action, but people would probably hate it if they change too much.[/QUOTE]
I agree. This costume looks fantastic.
[QUOTE=Badou;5064464]I thought the Nightwing Prime guy died in the hospital? I only skimmed a pirated copy of the issue so I don't remember it clearly though.[/QUOTE]
The other two wouldn't have still been waiting at the hospital if he was already dead. He's just severely injured.
What's the chance of Nightwing being treated better this time around? Also if he does go back being acrobat would this help or hurt him? Like even if it was at first no Haley's Circus. Like in Bludhaven he was hired at one of the entertainment strips. Which he was looking at due to a crime situation.
[QUOTE=Digifiend;5069108]The other two wouldn't have still been waiting at the hospital if he was already dead. He's just severely injured.[/QUOTE]
In the issue the girl and black Nightwing cops were at the hospital meeting the Nightwing Prime guy after he got injured by the Joker. While he was talking to them explaining what happened it felt like he trailed off and passed out or something and I assumed he flatlined I guess.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5071013]What's the chance of Nightwing being treated better this time around?[/QUOTE]
We'll know in a few months.
Jim Lee has said he'll protect the character, and I feel like so far he's been good to his word. We haven't gotten much, but Lee hasn't been in his position long and the pandemic screwed everything up. But we're getting Dick in a League arc, Snyder's got his project in the works and I see no reason for it not to be approved, Dick will soon be back as Nightwing, and the solo isn't cancelled yet. And as I learned the other day, we've got a new editor too.
But time will tell. Dick might get treated poorly in the JL arc, Snyder's story might end up being more Batman than Dick Grayson, and the solo might continue getting bottom-of-the-barrel creative teams. The new editor might be just as bad as the last one. And Dick becoming Nightwing again was likely always the endgame of the Ric saga, so it was probably gonna happen eventually whether Lee was in charge or not.
At this point, we're still dealing with Didio's DC. The stories that are still being told and/or wrapped up are stories he approved and helped set in motion, the direction of the characters are still mostly pointed where he wanted them. Or, at best, we're in a holding pattern where creators are just treading water, waiting for Jim Lee and everyone else to adjust and get their new plans (whatever they are) rolling.
I figure we'll probably start hearing announcements this coming month; Metal 2 is supposed to wrap this fall right? We're all expecting a relaunch to follow that. August seems like a good time for DC to start laying out their new plans.
I hope he is treated better. That a lot of the bad storylines are more due to Dan. I do have a question if that's why in the new 52 animated movies is why Dick was treated poorly. I haven't seen the Titans live action. Is it any Good?
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5071760]I hope he is treated better. That a lot of the bad storylines are more due to Dan. I do have a question if that's why in the new 52 animated movies is why Dick was treated poorly. I haven't seen the Titans live action. Is it any Good?[/QUOTE]
It has good parts and cringe parts. It should also be noted, it is far darker than the comics at the time. What's more, a number of the side characters, especially in season 1, seem more interesting than the main characters. Hawk & Dove, Doom Patrol, Donna, and Jason in season 1 overshadow the main characters for the most part.
So, if you don't mind an overall darker take on the OG Titans and the New Teen Titans, take a look at it.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5071760]I hope he is treated better. That a lot of the bad storylines are more due to Dan. I do have a question if that's why in the new 52 animated movies is why Dick was treated poorly. I haven't seen the Titans live action. Is it any Good?[/QUOTE]
I could be wrong but I don't think Didio had much pull with the animation guys. Pretty sure those are completely difference facets of DC and Didio only had real pull with the publishing. Isn't it Harras who would be in charge of DC's animation? But I could be wrong.
I think it might be more of a corporate culture thing. Most businesses end up reflecting the values of management, Didio had a hate-on for Dick (and the NTT) for twenty years, and we can see that Dick's treatment slowly degraded over that time, getting lower quality creators, less emphasis on his solo development, smaller roles in Events, and the eventual devolution to "adult sidekick" status.
I doubt Didio looked over every issue and every story arc; that likely wasn't his job, but his opinions on Dick would've influenced everyone else; want to get in good with the boss and ensure you keep getting books to write? Try to ignore Nightwing. Want that promotion from junior editor to full editor? Try to ignore Nightwing. Employees want the boss to be happy and don't want to be seen as wasting company time. So ignore the characters you know the boss doesn't believe in, and focus on what will make him happy.
If Harras doesn't have sway over the animation then it's likely a matter of the animators looking at the source material and going from that; and what they'd see is that Nightwing isn't terribly important or capable. For years, we've been getting adaptations of New52 stories; not much to work with there as far as Nightwing goes. And I generally don't watch DC cartoons but Dick seems to have done okay, for a guy who isn't a League mainstay. Not great, but what I've seen didn't really ever piss me off like the comics do.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5072452]I could be wrong but I don't think Didio had much pull with the animation guys. Pretty sure those are completely difference facets of DC and Didio only had real pull with the publishing. Isn't it Harras who would be in charge of DC's animation? But I could be wrong.
I think it might be more of a corporate culture thing. Most businesses end up reflecting the values of management, Didio had a hate-on for Dick (and the NTT) for twenty years, and we can see that Dick's treatment slowly degraded over that time, getting lower quality creators, less emphasis on his solo development, smaller roles in Events, and the eventual devolution to "adult sidekick" status.
I doubt Didio looked over every issue and every story arc; that likely wasn't his job, but his opinions on Dick would've influenced everyone else; want to get in good with the boss and ensure you keep getting books to write? Try to ignore Nightwing. Want that promotion from junior editor to full editor? Try to ignore Nightwing. Employees want the boss to be happy and don't want to be seen as wasting company time. So ignore the characters you know the boss doesn't believe in, and focus on what will make him happy.
If Harras doesn't have sway over the animation then it's likely a matter of the animators looking at the source material and going from that; and what they'd see is that Nightwing isn't terribly important or capable. For years, we've been getting adaptations of New52 stories; not much to work with there as far as Nightwing goes. And I generally don't watch DC cartoons but Dick seems to have done okay, for a guy who isn't a League mainstay. Not great, but what I've seen didn't really ever piss me off like the comics do.[/QUOTE]
jim lee was mostly involved in the animation side of things before dan quit.
Well, if Snyder's stepping away from DC I dunno that that bodes well for any chances of us getting that Nightwing book from him.
Snyder is still doing DC books, just not big events anymore.
Well. Dick was treated better in other movies just not the new 52 movies. Maybe one reason is simply that they didn't know how to use Dick or didn't care. They probably knew they were going to reboot anyway. Hope he will be treated better.
I wonder sometimes in order to make a better character we have to take them out of the normal. What has Nightwing not done?
[QUOTE=Pohzee;5073512]Well, if Snyder's stepping away from DC I dunno that that bodes well for any chances of us getting that Nightwing book from him.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't that meant to be Black Label and not the ongoing anyway?
Word is Snyder's Grayson book would be out of continuity, a kind of "what if Dick remained Batman?" kinda thing, but I'm not sure if anything was officially said or not. I guess in theory it could be in continuity? A "untold tales of Dick's time as Batman" maybe?
I expect that book to still happen; Snyder might be backing off but he's still doing DC books, he's still doing superheroes.....he just doesn't want to the "The Guy" at DC who does the big Events and has all his time taken up writing the big names. This Grayson project is something he wanted to do himself, so I expect he'll still make that happen. Though if he switches gears to focus on his own stuff the Grayson book might end up not happening for a while?
So if Lee was involved in the animation stuff....someone more familiar with the cartoons will have to chime in about Dick's treatment there. Ami says Dick was treated fairly well in the non-52 adaptations but I'm not a cartoon guy and don't know enough to say how Dick was treated overall.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5074272]Word is Snyder's Grayson book would be out of continuity, a kind of "what if Dick remained Batman?" kinda thing, but I'm not sure if anything was officially said or not. I guess in theory it could be in continuity? A "untold tales of Dick's time as Batman" maybe?
I expect that book to still happen; Snyder might be backing off but he's still doing DC books, he's still doing superheroes.....he just doesn't want to the "The Guy" at DC who does the big Events and has all his time taken up writing the big names. This Grayson project is something he wanted to do himself, so I expect he'll still make that happen. Though if he switches gears to focus on his own stuff the Grayson book might end up not happening for a while?
So if Lee was involved in the animation stuff....someone more familiar with the cartoons will have to chime in about Dick's treatment there. Ami says Dick was treated fairly well in the non-52 adaptations but I'm not a cartoon guy and don't know enough to say how Dick was treated overall.[/QUOTE]
If the story of Snyder is about Dick as Batman, I think that would only contribute to the idea that Nightwing is a lesser identity. And that big names only write Dick when he is Batman.
Although I like Dick as Batman, so maybe I shouldn't complain.
I'm pretty sure Snyder already said it's a Nightwing story about how Dick and Bruce are different from each other when it comes to crime fighting.
Yes, but some people (frustratingly) will just use Nightwing to describe a Dick Grayson story, regardless of mantle.
[QUOTE=Konja7;5074286]If the story of Snyder is about Dick as Batman, I think that would only contribute to the idea that Nightwing is a lesser identity.[/QUOTE]
I said the exact same thing when we first heard about the project.
Far as I know, we have no idea what the project actually is, beyond an exploration of the differences between Dick and Bruce, and that the story will do flashbacks covering Dick's journey and development, from Robin to Nightwing to Batman to (I think?) Agent 37.
It *could* be a Nightwing story. It *could* be a DickBats story. I don't think we know for certain, but going by what I've seen Snyder say I suspect it's DickBats. But that's just a guess.
I *hope* it's Nightwing. If it's not then yes, this is just a Batman story with someone else in the cowl and it will do nothing for Nightwing himself.
I don't think anything Agent 37 ever came up, just Robin, Nightwing, and Batman.
As for animation, if you want good quality Nightwing you really only have Young Justice. The animated movies, even when decent, don't do enough of a good job with the character to be noteworthy, and besides that he rarely appears in anything else. There were those toyetic Batman animated movies, not sure whether those are still ongoing but that was decent at least.
Treat while he doesn't appear much in the animation movies at least he does a better job than the new 52. Makes you wonder if doing a animated movie for Nightwing was matter. He has the fanbase. It's just the cast that matters
[QUOTE=Ascended;5074432]I said the exact same thing when we first heard about the project.
Far as I know, we have no idea what the project actually is, beyond an exploration of the differences between Dick and Bruce, and that the story will do flashbacks covering Dick's journey and development, from Robin to Nightwing to Batman to (I think?) Agent 37.
It *could* be a Nightwing story. It *could* be a DickBats story. I don't think we know for certain, but going by what I've seen Snyder say I suspect it's DickBats. But that's just a guess.
I *hope* it's Nightwing. If it's not then yes, this is just a Batman story with someone else in the cowl and it will do nothing for Nightwing himself.[/QUOTE]
He can't currently be Batman if Agent 37 is part of his history, as that came after his second stint in the cowl.
Snyder's Dick Batman story is the story he didn't get to tell when he was writing that era
That's what I remember he said in the interview, that's the only info I got, and I don't expect it to be anymore or less than that.
[QUOTE=Digifiend;5075398]He can't currently be Batman if Agent 37 is part of his history, as that came after his second stint in the cowl.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah, that's true.
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5075465]Snyder's Dick Batman story is the story he didn't get to tell when he was writing that era
That's what I remember he said in the interview, that's the only info I got, and I don't expect it to be anymore or less than that.[/QUOTE]
Yup. The only question is if Snyder will adapt the story for the current state of things or if it'll be set off on its own as either an Elseworlds or a "untold tales" story.
From what I've heard him say, Snyder could possibly take his story, put Dick in the Nightwing suit, and have him baby sitting Gotham while Bruce is out of town and it wouldn't change much. So it's *possible* it'll be a in continuity Nightwing tale. I don't think it will be, but from what I've heard it's possible. I'm sure we'll just get DickBats, but until we know for sure I don't like to discount any options yknow?
Maybe it will have some continuity elements, but it will be its own thing. I can't imagine it will be in continuity if it is going to be a Black Label book. I think Snyder just wants to tell this retrospective Dick Grayson story about how he is as a hero compared to Bruce and go through his time as Robin, Nightwing, and Batman while being set in Gotham.
That's what I assume. But until we get a real announcement we don't *know.*
Other than being the first Robin. What makes Dick a remember character? I think it's the fact even in the darkest hours. He is still always looking at the bright side of things. Also, I feel like that's one of the reasons I would like to see more Superman and Nightwing. Like he is the reason Dick picked that name. So why not have Dick and him hang out. Although now that D went Clark and Superman are the same I don't know
What are your hopes/expectations from Nightwing's return in Batman 99/100?
My expectations are pretty low. I'm expecting a pretty by the numbers appearance for Nightwing: Dick shows up, he acts friendly, makes some quips, they do some DickBabs teasing, and he encourages Bruce. They won't acknowledge Alfred, Roy, Wally, anything with the Titans, or the general state of the DCU at all, and they definitely won't touch on Bruce slapping Tim or pushing Damian away.
My only hope is that the Dick-Slade rivalry is properly revived, if only briefly. It happening in a Batman event would at least mean it'll be harder to ignore again lol.
[QUOTE=Grayson - The Dark Heir;5080948]My expectations are pretty low. I'm expecting a pretty by the numbers appearance for Nightwing: Dick shows up, he acts friendly, makes some quips, they do some DickBabs teasing, and he encourages Bruce. They won't acknowledge Alfred, Roy, Wally, anything with the Titans, or the general state of the DCU at all, and they definitely won't touch on Bruce slapping Tim or pushing Damian away.
My only hope is that the Dick-Slade rivalry is properly revived, if only briefly. It happening in a Batman event would at least mean it'll be harder to ignore again lol.[/QUOTE]
I agree, but they won't really have time to touch on things that happened so long in the past I assume unless it's in Dick's solo title. I too got excited when Tynion touched on Dick and Slade's rivalry a few weeks ago.
Speaking of, do we have any idea what the plans are for the Nightwing title after Joker War/Metal concludes? I know Jurgens is staying on after Joker War, but I thought there were rumors of another creative team down the pipeline.
[QUOTE=Wingin' It;5080920]What are your hopes/expectations from Nightwing's return in Batman 99/100?[/QUOTE]
His reaction to Alfred's death to be heartfelt. I don't have any hope for anything else.
[QUOTE=Wingin' It;5080971]I agree, but they won't really have time to touch on things that happened so long in the past I assume unless it's in Dick's solo title. I too got excited when Tynion touched on Dick and Slade's rivalry a few weeks ago.[/QUOTE]
When was this?
[QUOTE=Wingin' It;5080920]What are your hopes/expectations from Nightwing's return in Batman 99/100?[/QUOTE]
Low expectations. It's a Batman book. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Ric saga will come down to maybe one or two lines to acknowledge it happened without moving much of Dick's status forward.
Monkey's paw, but I would really like to see a status quo shift for Dick, especially now that Jason is coming into the fold a bit more as an ally. I know all spoilers have hinted as to the "batfamily" becoming closer post Joker war, but honestly Dick seems to get hurt more often than not when he's close with Bruce. Some of my favorite storytelling ages are when he's estranged from the "family" to a certain extent.
Dick was basically hung out to dry by...everyone. Babs and Alfred probably tried the hardest, but he was left to his own devices after an extremely traumatic injury. I'm probably trying to make lemons out of lemonade here, but I would like to see this acknowledged and impact his relationship with the Bats; especially Bruce. I'd never see him turn down family in distress, but a little less "how can I help?" as Tom King put it. The frustrating thing with Dick is he rarely acknowledges his own trauma because he doesn't like to put things on other people or slow himself down, but I would like to see the consequences of this mindset.
Thought I do see the virtue of sweeping this entire era under the rug as well once the book relaunches or gets a new creative team.
I have no real expectations for Dick's return. A line or two talking about his injury and then standard crap where Dick cheerleads for Bruce and talks about how Batman is just the niftiest, golly keenest dude ever and he's the only man who can possibly win the day. Or whatever.
And that's more than I want already. Dick's return, and indeed all the major moments in his story, should be happening in his own gods damn book instead of Batman's. The argument that this will get more attention does have some merit, but not a ton, since so many of us keep apace of things online. And it just reinforces the "sidekick" mentality.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5081498]I have no real expectations for Dick's return. A line or two talking about his injury and then standard crap where Dick cheerleads for Bruce and talks about how Batman is just the niftiest, golly keenest dude ever and he's the only man who can possibly win the day. Or whatever.
And that's more than I want already. Dick's return, and indeed all the major moments in his story, should be happening in his own gods damn book instead of Batman's. The argument that this will get more attention does have some merit, but not a ton, since so many of us keep apace of things online. And it just reinforces the "sidekick" mentality.[/QUOTE]
I really miss the days when Dick would challenge Bruce BECAUSE he believed he could do better. Like, he and Bruce would physically fight more than any of the other bat-allies because Dick and Bruce both have a temper, and Dick wouldn't hesitate to get in his face about stuff if he felt like he needed someone to do so. He was never a yes man, and not that he has really been depicted that way a ton...but their dynamic has been lacking this flavor since the reboot.
[QUOTE=Wingin' It;5081508]I really miss the days when Dick would challenge Bruce BECAUSE he believed he could do better. Like, he and Bruce would physically fight more than any of the other bat-allies because Dick and Bruce both have a temper, and Dick wouldn't hesitate to get in his face about stuff if he felt like he needed someone to do so. He was never a yes man, and not that he has really been depicted that way a ton...but their dynamic has been lacking this flavor since the reboot.[/QUOTE]
Nice is all the Nightwing interactions have time for these days it seems.