Oh thank god, its about time it happened properly
[url]https://www.gamesradar.com/nightwing-returns-to-gotham-for-batmans-the-joker-war/[/url]
Printable View
Oh thank god, its about time it happened properly
[url]https://www.gamesradar.com/nightwing-returns-to-gotham-for-batmans-the-joker-war/[/url]
IT'S OVER!! IT'S OVER!!
"And then in Batman #99 on September 15, Nightwing returns to Gotham City in 'The Joker War' part four!" DC's description continues. "Things have changed, as Batman realizes he can’t fight this war alone. He’s going to need help. Before he faces down The Joker, he must call up his trusty partner Dick Grayson! But can Dick reclaim his lost memories in time to join the battle?"
[url]https://www.gamesradar.com/nightwing-returns-to-gotham-for-batmans-the-joker-war/[/url]
[IMG]https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/ZvQ8svKAyB8BEz6vggJN8e.jpg[/IMG]
this could just be him supporting Tynion, but Joshua Williamson retweeted 2 tweets about nightwing returning as soon as the news happened..I wonder if he'll be the new writer after Jurgens leaves?
Either way, it's so good to see him back and Jorge's art is great as usual.
[QUOTE=DragonPiece;5003088]this could just be him supporting Tynion, but Joshua Williamson retweeted 2 tweets about nightwing returning as soon as the news happened..I wonder if he'll be the new writer after Jurgens leaves?
Either way, it's so good to see him back and Jorge's art is great as usual.[/QUOTE]
Make sense, he just finished his Flash run.
I am fine with Williamson, I like his writing on Flash and Batman/Superman so I would gladly read him on Nightwing.
New look or something to jazz up his return wouldn't have hurt.
I still don't trust it.
"Can Dick reclaim his lost memories in time?" Well the answer is probably "yes." This is probably the end of the Ric saga. But it could be a "Dick gets some of his memories back and is now a different kind of Ric-Dick fusion" or it'll end with Duke taking over the mantle, or a new "Rich" personality, or who the hell knows what.
When the comic is out, and we can see for a fact that Dick Grayson is back, fully and completely, then okay. But until we see that *on the page* and *in our hands* DC gets zero trust from me. How many times have solicits made us think things were being fixed, only to pull the rug out from under us? And Nightwing covers have been using the Nightwing costume in variants this whole time, so seeing Dick and Bruce on a cover doesn't mean sh*t to me either.
This is almost certainly the return of Dick Grayson that we've all been waiting for. I'd put good money on that being true. But I'm not going to take DC's word for it. I am way past trusting anything they say. Jim Lee could knock on my door and say "In this issue, Dick comes back in all his glory and I flew all the way out here just to tell you personally, because I know you're such a fan!" and unless he had a copy of that issue in his hand and a receipt of delivery from distributors, I won't trust it. After the sh*t DC has pulled, my trust is not so easily bought.
And if they want my money? They better step up their game because Jurgens and Lobdell and Percy ain't gonna cut it. Dick's return is great; we've been waiting for that for waaaay to long. But if DC wants me to buy Nightwing again they better provide some f*cking quality talent.
If Williamson is the guy who takes over and Dick is truly back? DC gets my money again. Anything of lower quality and I refuse to support it.
[QUOTE]New look or something to jazz up his return wouldn't have hurt.[/QUOTE]
There was that DCAU costume from Doomsday Clock, which maybe appeared again in that Metal 2 art posted up above.....I was kinda-sorta expecting that costume (which would've been great) to be used when Dick came back. But for all we know, Dick will still switch to some new threads when the dust settles.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5003116]New look or something to jazz up his return wouldn't have hurt.[/QUOTE]
Maybe he'll have a new costume in Nightwing 75, with a new creative team, i hope.
I still think 75 will be the end of his current series.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5003127]I still think 75 will be the end of his current series.[/QUOTE]
Make sense too.
75 it's a commemorative number, but number 1's always sells more.
Okay overall who is NIghtwing's archyenemy? That's one thing that needs to be put up. I don't mind if he shares at least one Batman villian.
DICK IS BACK!!! TIME TO PARTY!!!
Joker War is making me buy comics again! Hallelujah! Thank you Baby Jesus :D
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5003160]Okay overall who is NIghtwing's archyenemy? That's one thing that needs to be put up. I don't mind if he shares at least one Batman villian.[/QUOTE]
i would say Deathstroke or Blockbuster. Tony Zucco too I guess
Oh my God. Is...is the nightmare finally over? The worst decision the post-Rebirth era ever made is finally over!? Is Dick back!?
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5003160]Okay overall who is NIghtwing's archyenemy? That's one thing that needs to be put up. I don't mind if he shares at least one Batman villian.[/QUOTE]
I'm thinking Deathstroke honestly for all the New Teen Titans stuff, but I would honestly argue that it could be Talon/Cobb. I mean at this point they have been constantly hounding Dick for years to fall into the order for the Court of Owls, to follow his dark family lineage, that I could see Talon as his archenemy.
There is a Nightwing variant for Batman #99. And it looks so good and everything right about this world. I love it.
The thing with Deathstorke isn't he like a hitman for hire? That's the thing what would keep him in Dick's world and not just any other character?
[QUOTE=qwazer07;5003296]There is a Nightwing variant for Batman #99. And it looks so good and everything right about this world. I love it.[/QUOTE]
The boy is looking beautiful!
[IMG]https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/97cLgnVErVLp95XeXS8vS6-650-80.jpg.webp[/IMG]
Looking good. I hope they stop with all the losing memories stuff.
Okay, who are Nightwing's popular villains?
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5003160]Okay overall who is NIghtwing's archyenemy? That's one thing that needs to be put up. I don't mind if he shares at least one Batman villian.[/QUOTE]
It used to be Blockbuster, but these days it tends to be William Cobb and The Court, but Zucco is still the most consistent because of the parent's murder thing.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5003310]The thing with Deathstorke isn't he like a hitman for hire? That's the thing what would keep him in Dick's world and not just any other character?[/QUOTE]
That's the thing that makes Deathstroke works with any character. Want Deathstroke just add victim.
I mean he could have more than one. Blockbuster can still work if you can write him right.
[QUOTE=Drako;5003083]IT'S OVER!! IT'S OVER!!
"And then in Batman #99 on September 15, Nightwing returns to Gotham City in 'The Joker War' part four!" DC's description continues. "Things have changed, as Batman realizes he can’t fight this war alone. He’s going to need help. Before he faces down The Joker, he must call up his trusty partner Dick Grayson! But can Dick reclaim his lost memories in time to join the battle?"
[url]https://www.gamesradar.com/nightwing-returns-to-gotham-for-batmans-the-joker-war/[/url]
[IMG]https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/ZvQ8svKAyB8BEz6vggJN8e.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Really? You don't wanna wait until #100?
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5003395]I mean he could have more than one. Blockbuster can still work if you can write him right.[/QUOTE]
I thought that Raptor had potential too. Hopefully we see him again sometime, he was the rare Nightwing villain that was a part of Dick's world first and foremost.
Raptor was the best true Nightwing villain. A villian created for him and from him. Challenging the character about meta issues, while at same time being relevant to modern day. I really hope to see Raptor again in a big way, but at the same time from better creators as to not water him down with lazy and generic characterizations like we just saw with Cobb.
[QUOTE=Drako;5003313]The boy is looking beautiful![/QUOTE]
Jorge is a fantastic artist, I'd love to see him on Nightwing!
Oh, as for archnemesis.....it's probably between Blockbuster and Cobb. Cobb and the Court have been a big focus in recent years but Blockbuster has been a major player in Dick's story for twenty-odd years.
For all the main Court stories Dick is on the peripheral. Their Bat villains that the current Bat office just overuse on Nightwing. As for Cobb that last arc only the second time Dick has run into him. And to do that they completely changed him and how the Court operate.
Eh, not like the Court has a lot of consistency to it anyway.
I'd say Blockbuster is still the Big Bad #1, but I'm willing to entertain the notion of it being Cobb.
We could easily rewrite Cobb. Most things can work with enough imagination. So going with what we have. Dick works or at least own Haley Circus. He does live in Bludhaven with him continually traveling with Haley Circus seasonal. He have to recuse Talons and talons in training. So with this set up how does Blockbuster play a part?
They did rewrite Cobb. Problem is Cobb is an exploited and mutated foot soldier, in which lies the tragedy of him, with personal motivations rooted in Gotham. Trying to turn Cobb into a archenemies, that follows Dick in Bludhaven, completely misses the point of the character and what he represents.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5003807]They did rewrite Cobb. Problem is Cobb is an exploited and mutated foot soldier, in which lies the tragedy of him, with personal motivations rooted in Gotham. Trying to turn Cobb into a archenemies, that follows Dick in Bludhaven, completely misses the point of the character and what he represents.[/QUOTE]
True. I guess he could be one of those villains that pops in and out. So far what villains could we rewrite?
Personally in his way of thinking, life, and modus operandi, I don't think Dick Grayson is the type of person who would have an arch-enemy. I mean jerk villains have even come at him with these personal grudges and history "from way back" trying to make nemesis-status stick and it never sticks. Dude is an upbeat, believes in the good in people piece of teflon.
From a more meta, authorial point of view ... it's hard to have an arch-enemy sometimes. Batman is very cool. Joker is kind of equally cool in his own way, or "neat" anyway. Great look, good hook. Kind of small-time considering Batman Justice Leagues every day but Joker only Dooms once in a great while. But it's personal. It's a local beef. It's like Whoever's Pizza versus Whoever's Pizza in some city.
I guess a villain kind of reflects some of the flaws in a hero, so Joker pushes the lines of decency like an edgy comedian and Batman just won't kill him. His antipathy tests the heroism of the no kill rule. So on so forth and after that it's basically just a small-town rivalry between egos, because they're both criminals, deviants and immoral, it just depends who is casting the aspersions.
In Dick Grayson's case it's hard. He's very optimistic. So you might think, oh give him a cynic! They rolled that out with James Gordon Jr. in Snyder's Black Mirror. Good run of comics, but that dude as a villain does not have legs. Plus you can't make anyone "Gordon" into a Grayson rival. But more than that ... he's optimistic but dude is not naive or idealistic. He grew up in Batman's house. He's shrewd.
They tried the "we were punk kids together thing" a dozen times, but foremost with like, well, Crime School for Boys, but more recently, Shrike. No legs. Then again he had a pretty bad late 90s costume. Real bad costume. Plus everyone was just assassins back then in the late 90s.
They've tried the femme fatale angle a few times and it never seems to work but probably because it seems childish and rote? Dick has a string of lovers (more or less all fellow superheroes) that are all such good people (and cool characters) that we constantly debate who is the best one for him like a celebrity couple that broke up! The answer of course is that they're ALL really good for him. The common denominator is Dick Grayson. He's bad for all of them. Dick Grayson is a flake.
How do you make a femme fatale expoit THAT though? He actually IS dating a superhero ... but then flakes on her even after there was marriage teases ... he pulls a Kory (or Babs) and leaves her at the altar or close to it, or I mean, he could cheat. Dude lives life keeping secrets ... and THAT is what causes her to become a super-villain. That mister perfect Dick Grayson, god that he is, doesn't want her? Kind of weak. Oh I mean it happens to people in real life, they become enemies because of heart-break. I just think you know, it's a weakness. It's not a healthy approach. Which of course, screams super-villain to you? Well of course. But not a STRONG arch-nemesis of a super-villain who can match Dick in wits, blows, and emotional headgames. That's a nemesis but not an ARCH-nemesis.
So man, what's the approach?
The easy answer is of course ... if Dick Grayson is a spy, his opposite number in the rival organization instantly gets to be a hand-crafted arch-nemesis. I mean, you could even make him go villain and it could actually be NEMESIS. A lover boy, a pretty boy. A master spy. Dick might be more the fighter, but Nemesis is the master of disguise. Dick dated Koriander? Nemesis dated Wonder Woman. And now he's a villain. But a rival with a code. Just not Dick's code. Not Batman's naive super-hero code. For the greater good, people gotta die. And Dick Grayson is in the way. And maybe just maybe it's the moral argument. The logical argument. And what's more ... in his youth ... Alfred Pennyworth, Dick's fatherly surrogate figure who he loves and respects ... used to be a Nemesis type guy. An agent, man of action ... and killer, which pits the ideals and values of BOTH of Dick's role models against each other in his mind.
Fool me once, DC... I'll believe he's back when I read it on the printed page.
But I will leaf through the book in my LCS to see if I'm buying the issue. I miss Nightwing so damn bad.
Dick being back is great and all but I don't see much changeing from what we have now.
[QUOTE=Drako;5003083]IT'S OVER!! IT'S OVER!!
"And then in Batman #99 on September 15, Nightwing returns to Gotham City in 'The Joker War' part four!" DC's description continues. "Things have changed, as Batman realizes he can’t fight this war alone. He’s going to need help. Before he faces down The Joker, he must call up his trusty partner Dick Grayson! But can Dick reclaim his lost memories in time to join the battle?"
[url]https://www.gamesradar.com/nightwing-returns-to-gotham-for-batmans-the-joker-war/[/url]
[IMG]https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/ZvQ8svKAyB8BEz6vggJN8e.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
By the way that's Batman's dad's bod. He doesn't have a beer belly, he just got really wide. Like this is the preview of his TDKR build.
This storyline didn't get any smarter during the three-month break. Jurgens got in a few jabs that were funny - I think he realizes he's trying to make lemonade here - but it is. Still. So. Stupid. Bea is almost as annoying as Ric. There's a scene with the fake Nightwings in the most recent issue that is like every badly written hospital scene ever, jumbled into one mess. (BTW anesthesia doesn't take two minutes to knock you out. They tell you to count backwards from 10. You're asleep before you get to 1.)
I assume this will eventually serve the purpose of undoing this nonsense, but ugh.
You know what is really weird in issue #71? Spoilers ahead, i guess.
Ric left the Bar and immediately Joker appears at the stairs. Then we see Ric fighting and defeating Tusk but the Joker still is at the same place we last saw him, making time for Ric to rescue Bea. So Ric changed his clothes, fought Tusk like a block away, realize the Joker was behind this distraction, came back and the Clown just went down the stairs?
You could take all the pages of the fight off and nothing really changes.
I really wish i are not stuck with Dun Jurgens after Dick is back.
[QUOTE=Drako;5004164]You know what is really weird in issue #71? Spoilers ahead, i guess.
Ric left the Bar and immediately Joker appears at the stairs. Then we see Ric fighting and defeating Tusk but the Joker still is at the same place we last saw him, making time for Ric to rescue Bea. So Ric changed his clothes, fought Tusk like a block away, realize the Joker was behind this distraction, came back and the Clown just went down the stairs?
You could take all the pages of the fight off and nothing really changes.
I really wish i are not stuck with Dun Jurgens after Dick is back.[/QUOTE]
Joker did the super slow walk of villains hahaha
What makes me curious is why Tusk have complete 2 ivories? Didn't he lost one of his ivories in the past? Or ivories can grow up after being cut like nails?
[QUOTE=Drako;5004164]You know what is really weird in issue #71? Spoilers ahead, i guess.
Ric left the Bar and immediately Joker appears at the stairs. Then we see Ric fighting and defeating Tusk but the Joker still is at the same place we last saw him, making time for Ric to rescue Bea. So Ric changed his clothes, fought Tusk like a block away, realize the Joker was behind this distraction, came back and the Clown just went down the stairs?
You could take all the pages of the fight off and nothing really changes.
I really wish i are not stuck with Dun Jurgens after Dick is back.[/QUOTE]
Yup. Good point. Why would Joker bother to distract him at all, if he was just going to wait patiently for him to get back?
This is why I question is Dick a well Dick if he cheats? Dc loves to have Dick at times be the Cheater. What do you guys think? He cheated on Kory and Babs. I mean he at least needs to have a villain that he fights often. We also have at least one femme fatale. He is part of the Batfam.
He cheated 1 time.