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[QUOTE=Godlike13;4983816]Bludhaven, as it is, is the same as the JL would be. Nightwing emulating the Batman and the Batman formula. Bludhaven is just spectacularly less impressive then the JL. JL at least comes with bragging rights, but beyond that I don’t see it doing much for Dick.[/QUOTE]
I've come to accept how DC views nightwing (don't care for it but accept it) so if DC wants nightwing to be a city street level hero as his status quo than all I ask is that they return bludhaven back to Vegas haven and for dick to open and run halys circus again.
Both Bludhaven and Halys circus are the only things dick has that's uniquely his that actually sticks around in his mythos. So put a Vegas bludhaven and Halys circus together and build from there.
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[QUOTE=WonderNight;4983845]I've come to accept how DC views nightwing (don't care for it but accept it) so if DC wants nightwing to be a city street level hero as his status quo than all I ask is that they return bludhaven back to Vegas haven and for dick to open and run halys circus again.
Both Bludhaven and Halys circus are the only things dick has that's uniquely his that actually sticks around in his mythos. So put a Vegas bludhaven and Halys circus together and build from there.[/QUOTE]
I agree both can work. In a weird way. I do think Nightwing can protect the city and travel. I mean with the entertainment side people might not want crimes to always happen in Bludhaven. Leading things to be taken to other places.
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The whole protecting a city formula is formula made famous with characters like Batman. So while Bludhaven is "his" it serves to facilitate the Batman formula. What more thanks to the lazy out of touch creators they tapped to take the book over, it has reverted to the the pre-Seeley mini Gotham. So its his, but its his mini Gotham.
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[QUOTE=Godlike13;4983816]Bludhaven, as it is, is the same as the JL would be. Nightwing emulating the Batman and the Batman formula. Bludhaven is just spectacularly less impressive then the JL. JL at least comes with bragging rights, but beyond that I don’t see it doing much for Dick.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't the Titans be the Bludhaven equivalent? A Justice League-lite team like how Bludhaven is Gotham-lite. Dick being part of the JL would be like him operating in Gotham. It will never be "his" city (which I think is an outdated concept anyway), but he will have substantially more resources to draw from for stories even if he is in a box with a lot of other competing heroes. I'd prefer the Gotham scenario as I want a place with more utility as opposed to a Bludhaven that is a wasteland of nothing regardless of how writers try to dress it up.
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Titans done wrong, done right Titans pivots away from Jr JL. As Nightwing should pivot from Jr Batman. As out of favor as it might be Titans still has more upside for Dick then JL would. Nightwing is in a weird position where being in the JL isn't going to bring with it a solo he doesn't already have. At best he'll get to stand around in events maybe, but even that is something he already does. And it would have no benefit outside of comics. Where they are telling the stories isn't really what matters but how they are telling the stories. The current creators on Ric pulled every Gotham resource they could. Whether borrowing toy's from Batman's toy box, or playing in Batman's toy box. Both equate to the same thing. As long as they have Nightwing try to emulate the same formulas he's going to come off as Batman-lite.
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So then what direction can nightwing take? It sounds like damned if you do damned if you don't. What to do with nightwing.
If nightwing is in bludhaven he's batman lite but put him in Gotham you than defeat the very point of nightwing in the first place, got make him robin again at that point.
The titans have always been the kids in town. But fans seem to not want nightwing on a new team. At this point DC should have just left him with spyral, send him to another franchise or just retire him because the same old same old ain't working and most fans don't like new and different.
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Directions that’s change the kinds of stories they tell and how they tell them. Part of what made Grayson so refreshing was not just what they had him doing, but how they went about doing it. It was a different formate with a unique creators situation. Instead of 4-6 issue drawn out arcs we were getting single issue stories telling an overarching story. It would switch off between King and Seeley so no issues would read the same as the one before, but they were still in sync with one another so they never felt out a place either.
They need to change how they go about Nightwing comics. They can shoot him in the head, and strip away every thing that made him likable, but as long as they bring in these lazy creators that just mindlessly abuse the same old formulas nothing actually seems genuinely different or new. Nightwing will just continue to come off as a lesser imitation of characters that popularized those formulas, and who are far better supported. They tried to change everything about Dick, except for how they went about things. So the whole idea immediately just fell flat on its face. Cause underneath it all was just effortless crap being told in the same and usual ways. He might have been different but what he was doing and how he was doing it was just more of the same. Completely formulaic and Batman dependent.
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[QUOTE=Godlike13;4984724]Directions that’s change the kinds of stories they tell and how they tell them. Part of what made Grayson so refreshing was not just what they had him doing, but how they went about doing it. It was a different formate with a unique creators situation. Instead of 4-6 issue drawn out arcs we were getting single issue stories telling an overarching story. It would switch off between King and Seeley so no issues would read the same as the one before, but they were still in sync with one another so they never felt out a place either.
They need to change how they go about Nightwing comics. They can shoot him in the head, and strip away every thing that made him likable, but as long as they bring in these lazy creators that just mindlessly abuse the same old formulas nothing actually seems genuinely different or new. Nightwing will just continue to come off as a lesser imitation of characters that popularized those formulas, and who are far better supported. [B]They tried to change everything about Dick, except for how they went about things. So the whole idea immediately just fell flat on its face. Cause underneath it all was just effortless crap being told in the same and usual ways. He might have been different but what he was doing and how he was doing it was just more of the same. Completely formulaic and Batman dependent[/B].[/QUOTE]
A very well thought out post and one I agree with.
Said it a fair few times that Grayson and generally keeping Dick far from Batman (and by extension the Batfamily/ Gotham/ Bludhaven/ etcetera) was/is the best way to go and this post supports the why.
On a side note, not generally a fan of teams but Nightwing's Outsiders (Winick) worked well (which followed the concept of "Bat distancing" for a while.
Of course in typical DC fashion, Batman came and pissed on that bonfire.
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[QUOTE=Ascended;4983127]Well, at this point who knows? Rebirth continuity hasn't actually touched on ages, for the most part. But in the New52 yeah, Dick was 21 or 22 or so. Tim was 16. Damian turned 13. Beyond that I don't know if anyone had their age established.
Tim was said to be 16 in Rebirth's 'Tec run as well.
I think at this point it's best to just forget ages; it didn't make sense in New52 continuity and it makes less sense in the current continuity, which is still half N52 and half "post-Crisis' second cousin."
In my head, Dick is in his late 20's (26-28), Babs in her early-ish 30's (33-35), Jason in his mid 20's (23-25), Tim his very early 20's (21-22), and Damian's 13, with Bruce being in his early-mid 40's (41-44).[/QUOTE]
There's been some aging up going on. In Robin 80th Anniversary, Tim age in Detective Comics Rebirth was retconned. He told Dick he wasn't 20 yet. He'd have said 18 if he was 16, surely? Sounds like he's now 18 or 19. Which also matches an upcoming Young Justice solicitation which mentions Tim, Conner and Bart growing up into adulthood.
Dick and Babs have both also aged up. After Dick was shot, he said he lost nearly two decades of memories... and he remembers up to his parents' deaths. That would make him late 20s at least. Babs is still the same age as him, so presumably she also aged up when she got rid of the Burnside costume.
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[QUOTE=cc008;4983138]That's about where I'm at too. My head canon doesn't have Jason much younger than Dick at all.. 2 years maybe.. both of them on the older end of these ranges.[/QUOTE]By pre Flashpoint comics Dick should actually be roughly 7 years older than Jason, and Jason should not be much older than Tim (and Younger than Cassandra Cain).
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[QUOTE=Digifiend;4985039]There's been some aging up going on.[/QUOTE]
Oh good. Glad they started adjusting that.
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Big Question is just if the there is some coordination by the editorial behind this, or if that's the writers using the ages they feel are right.
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Okay, so Dick is part of the JL? This is one thing that I often wondered since they generally have him be more in TT. So if we go with Haley Circus do we want him to be the owner of it?
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[QUOTE=Aahz;4985206]Big Question is just if there is some coordination by the editorial behind this, or if that's the writers using the ages they feel are right.[/QUOTE]
There is coordination though the age themselves can change and some people may be given the wrong information.
When New 52 first started, Greg Capullo was told by the editorial that Dick was 19. That's why he drew him so short in that one panel in the first issue of The Court of Owls. They updated him with the very next issue.
No problem in Higgins-Barrows issue though, they drew and wrote him as in the early twenties.
Once they established he's 21 it's all the same across the board. Same with Superman and Wonder Woman, who were officially 25 and 23 in New 52. Even if some writers may write them older or more mature for their age and some writers write them like freshly graduated college students, the official age was the same.
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Don't know I have somehow the feeling that since Rebirth (or maybe even since DCYou) there is less control by the editorial and the continuity is even less clear than during the New52.
At the moment as long as I don't see an age really consistently referenced, I see just as something the writer made up.
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[QUOTE=Godlike13;4984639]Titans done wrong, done right Titans pivots away from Jr JL. As Nightwing should pivot from Jr Batman. As out of favor as it might be Titans still has more upside for Dick then JL would. Nightwing is in a weird position where being in the JL isn't going to bring with it a solo he doesn't already have. At best he'll get to stand around in events maybe, but even that is something he already does. And it would have no benefit outside of comics. Where they are telling the stories isn't really what matters but how they are telling the stories. The current creators on Ric pulled every Gotham resource they could. Whether borrowing toy's from Batman's toy box, or playing in Batman's toy box. Both equate to the same thing. As long as they have Nightwing try to emulate the same formulas he's going to come off as Batman-lite.[/QUOTE]
What upside do the Titans have? When was the last good Nightwing Titans story? The only thing the Titans can offer up is being a team Dick can lead. If that is important to you then that is the team you will be stuck with. The same way Bludhaven offers up the chance for Dick to have his own city, but just like being stuck in Bludhaven him being in the Titans offers him far less actual functional opportunity for stories than the JL would even if he is in a lesser role in the JL. We have more than enough comic evidence to prove that out at this point. The Titans are never going to come close to recapturing their NTT era success and are a minor league team to the JL's major league one at this point. Two seasons of a live action Titans TV has lead to fuck all in the comics, so I don't care about how the comics effect other media at this point either. Dick going to the JL will have zero impact on how he is used in other media anyway, or really even effect his solo comic probably.
It all comes down to what you want for the character. I don't care about Dick leading a team anymore. What I want is Dick to have some kind of proper role in the DCU. Where he is actually involved in big stories where his character feels important. You have so many big stories going on constantly and Dick is completely uninvolved or just used as fodder in them. That will never change unless the character is put in a better position to be properly involved and from what I can see that is the JL. Since that is where a lot of these stories spawn from or revolve around. I'm at the point where I don't even care about him leading these big DCU stories, but him being involved in the B or C plots of them would be a step up from where he is.
As for the Bludhaven pulling characters from Gotham thing, I think that is a separate issue. That is more to do with Bludhaven being devoid of anything people actually care about and being unable to create or contain interesting elements itself independently because of how dull it is. So they have to drag villains from Gotham to try and elevate the Bludhaven stories more.
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For better or worse Titans is a franchise Dick can actually be prevalent in, in way he could never be with the JL. What functional opportunity do you think we would really see with the JL? More merchandising, or TV shows and movies appearances? B or C plots in event comics are worth far less then these kind of opportunities mind you. So do you really think being on the JL for a run, cause that is all it would ever be, is really going to create more opportunities or give him a role then being the face of the Titans will. Dick is already involved in B or C plots in events, like IC, FE, Metal. Not being part of the JL isn't why he isn’t given even more plots in events. Aquaman has been in the JL for forever and I can could count on one hand how many he’s actually been relevant in. Being in the JL isn’t even that big of a deal. Especially outside of the 7.
And you still act like Bludhaven creates its own comics. As if it is responsible for the likes Lobdell or Jurgan’s being lazy creators. Filling up Bludhaven with interesting reusable elements is a process that takes more commitment and understanding then the creators they handed the book off too we’re willing to invest. You honestly think Lobdell tapped Scarecrow and Joker's Daughter because Bludhaven, or they had Jurgan's go to the Court well for like the 5th time cause there just isn't anything else more interesting. No, its just the same people trying to force the same shit over and over because its easier and safer to repeat and reuse what they are used to then put in the creative effort to actually develop something original or interesting. Its not Bludhaven's job to create, and its not a separate issue. At its core it comes down to editors and creators thinking let’s just have him emulate the same things Batman does, and lets just use proven Bat things. That’s quick and easy. Oh that didn't work, well lets do it again with other Bat thing. Abusing those same formulas they have been conditioned too, to make it easier for them to produce quick and cheap Nightwing content off the factory line. Not caring if any one actually cares about what they they are doing, but more that so and so had something to do. Putting him on the JL just further feeds into the idea of hey let’s just have home copy after Batman. And whether he is Gotham or Bludhaven, as long as that is the managing mentality it will result in the same shit. At this point Gotham vs Bludhaven is like arguing for Night of Owl and Death of the Family vs Year of the Villain and Joker War.
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4986307]Okay, so Dick is part of the JL? This is one thing that I often wondered since they generally have him be more in TT. So if we go with Haley Circus do we want him to be the owner of it?[/QUOTE]
I think "officially" Dick's on the reserve list. Or the "break in case of emergency" kit, anyway.
But practically every adult hero is on one of those lists and Dick has only been called in two, maybe three times ever, so it doesn't mean much.
And yes, I'd say Dick should own Haly's. Not just work there, own it. You want him to have a source of revenue? He's got one. You want him building his own foundation as a solo character? Haly's is about the only thing his IP truly owns. You want him to keep at least one foot in his Bat roots? This goes back to his Robin origin story. You want him to have a job he's naturally qualified for, that is entertaining and true to his character? This is literally the only job he's ever had other than "hero" that he was able to hold down for more than five minutes, and it's a circus/entertainment venue/casino/whatever update you wanna spin. Want him to have a job that doesn't interfere with his heroics? Dick owns the place, but someone else runs the day-to-day. You want him traveling a lot? Haly's goes on tours. You want him stationary? Haly's is set in one spot (Gotham or Bludhaven or Jump City or anywhere). Want him travel but have a home to go back to? Haly's does the occasional tour only, and Dick travels a lot searching for talent.
It can be bright and fun for kid stories or have a seedy, dark underbelly for the more HBO minded. It can be left alone and ignored sort of like Wayne Enterprises often is, or it can be the focus of plots. It provides its own supporting cast, opportunity for guest stars from all corners of the DCU, it can be played as a street level affair with "standard" entertainments, or it can be more fantastical, with super human performers. Any story you can fit Dick into, you can fit Haly's.
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[QUOTE=Ascended;4987803]I think "officially" Dick's on the reserve list. Or the "break in case of emergency" kit, anyway.
But practically every adult hero is on one of those lists and Dick has only been called in two, maybe three times ever, so it doesn't mean much.
And yes, I'd say Dick should own Haly's. Not just work there, own it. You want him to have a source of revenue? He's got one. You want him building his own foundation as a solo character? Haly's is about the only thing his IP truly owns. You want him to keep at least one foot in his Bat roots? This goes back to his Robin origin story. You want him to have a job he's naturally qualified for, that is entertaining and true to his character? This is literally the only job he's ever had other than "hero" that he was able to hold down for more than five minutes, and it's a circus/entertainment venue/casino/whatever update you wanna spin. Want him to have a job that doesn't interfere with his heroics? Dick owns the place, but someone else runs the day-to-day. You want him traveling a lot? Haly's goes on tours. You want him stationary? Haly's is set in one spot (Gotham or Bludhaven or Jump City or anywhere). Want him travel but have a home to go back to? Haly's does the occasional tour only, and Dick travels a lot searching for talent.
It can be bright and fun for kid stories or have a seedy, dark underbelly for the more HBO minded. It can be left alone and ignored sort of like Wayne Enterprises often is, or it can be the focus of plots. It provides its own supporting cast, opportunity for guest stars from all corners of the DCU, it can be played as a street level affair with "standard" entertainments, or it can be more fantastical, with super human performers. Any story you can fit Dick into, you can fit Haly's.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like the Kyle Higgins run
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[QUOTE=Rac7d*;4987892]Sounds like the Kyle Higgins run[/QUOTE]
While What Ascended is talking about is a bit different than Higgins, Higgins DID have some good ideas that were poorly executed and interfered with so much they couldn’t succeed. Amusement Mike, for example, could have been great. Owning Haly’s could have been great. Trashing it all for Death in the Family... gosh the wasted potential there...
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[QUOTE=Godlike13;4987605]For better or worse Titans is a franchise Dick can actually be prevalent in, in way he could never be with the JL. What functional opportunity do you think we would really see with the JL? More merchandising, or TV shows and movies appearances? B or C plots in event comics are worth far less then these kind of opportunities mind you. So do you really think being on the JL for a run, cause that is all it would ever be, is really going to create more opportunities or give him a role then being the face of the Titans will. Dick is already involved in B or C plots in events, like IC, FE, Metal. Not being part of the JL isn't why he isn’t given even more plots in events. Aquaman has been in the JL for forever and I can could count on one hand how many he’s actually been relevant in. Being in the JL isn’t even that big of a deal. Especially outside of the 7.[/QUOTE]
I don't care about other media or merch opportunities. I simply want the character in a position to be involved in bigger and more relevant stories in the comics and I don't see the Titans as a path to that. The Justice League and their stories are the driving force behind the DCU and if you want to be involved in that you have to have more of a connection to those titles. It is that simple. It also isn't just event comics, but being involved in normal stories that feel like they have more weight to them. The Titans will never be that. Just look at what Starfire and Cyborg are doing in Justice League Odyssey with being able to interact with characters like Darkseid. Even that is beyond what the Titans book is capable of doing and that is a secondary or tertiary JL title. It is ridiculous how much the JL franchise dwarfs the Titans franchise in that regard. Plus the Titans franchise is always going to be split in half with the teens and characters like Robin taking a large amount of the focus. It just isn't this great opportunity for Nightwing. He will continue to be uninvolved in bigger stories, or will just be used as fodder to push Batman. That is what he is limited to now unless you reposition him in the DCU to get more opportunities and the best place for those opportunities is the JL franchise, imo.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;4987605]And you still act like Bludhaven creates its own comics. As if it is responsible for the likes Lobdell or Jurgan’s being lazy creators. Filling up Bludhaven with interesting reusable elements is a process that takes more commitment and understanding then the creators they handed the book off too we’re willing to invest. You honestly think Lobdell tapped Scarecrow and Joker's Daughter because Bludhaven, or they had Jurgan's go to the Court well for like the 5th time cause there just isn't anything else more interesting. No, its just the same people trying to force the same shit over and over because its easier and safer to repeat and reuse what they are used to then put in the creative effort to actually develop something original or interesting. Its not Bludhaven's job to create, and its not a separate issue. At its core it comes down to editors and creators thinking let’s just have him emulate the same things Batman does, and lets just use proven Bat things. That’s quick and easy. Oh that didn't work, well lets do it again with other Bat thing. Abusing those same formulas they have been conditioned too, to make it easier for them to produce quick and cheap Nightwing content off the factory line. Not caring if any one actually cares about what they they are doing, but more that so and so had something to do. Putting him on the JL just further feeds into the idea of hey let’s just have home copy after Batman. And whether he is Gotham or Bludhaven, as long as that is the managing mentality it will result in the same shit. At this point Gotham vs Bludhaven is like arguing for Night of Owl and Death of the Family vs Year of the Villain and Joker War.[/QUOTE]
I think it is Bludhaven's job to help create. It is supposed to serve as a setting for inspiration. A place that creators want to create for and play around in, but it isn't interesting enough to be that. So they have to pull characters from actually interesting places to make up for it. So of course the creators are lazy too, but I don't think Bludhaven is innocent. It's been nearly 25 years since it was created and I think we know what it is at this point and it will never be this place that creators actually care about, but I've complained more than enough about Bludhaven at this point in these threads.
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I see there's some suggestion in this thread - [url]https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?139056-Mark-Waid-Q-amp-A-on-DC-Universe[/url] - that Mark "I have begged, begged to be given Nightwing" Waid might have a DC project in the works.
(Not suggesting it's hugely likely - but it's a nice thought in trying times.)
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[QUOTE=Claude;4988145]I see there's some suggestion in this thread - [url]https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?139056-Mark-Waid-Q-amp-A-on-DC-Universe[/url] - that Mark "I have begged, begged to be given Nightwing" Waid might have a DC project in the works.
(Not suggesting it's hugely likely - but it's a nice thought in trying times.)[/QUOTE]
I was just gonna post this.
It'd be great for Waid to get Nightwing.
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[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;4988227]I was just gonna post this.
It'd be great for Waid to get Nightwing.[/QUOTE]
A world with Waid and Snyder working on Grayson projects at the same time would almost be worth waiting out Ric for.
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[QUOTE=Rac7d*;4987892]Sounds like the Kyle Higgins run[/QUOTE]
Kinda-sorta. But the point is that Haly's has the flexibility to be whatever the writer wants it to be. Higgins did what he did with it, but a Nightwing cartoon made for kids could make Haly's a bright and fun place full of cool sights and wonder. A more serious story could dive into the rough and tumble life these people lead where they aren't welcome or fit in anywhere outside their own little community.
That's the real strength of Haly's as a concept; it can fit any kind of narrative structure for any audience.
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[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;4988227]I was just gonna post this.
It'd be great for Waid to get Nightwing.[/QUOTE]
Considering Waid wrote a wonderful Daredevil run...yeah I would be all for him writing Nightwing.
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[QUOTE=Ascended;4987803]I think "officially" Dick's on the reserve list. Or the "break in case of emergency" kit, anyway.
But practically every adult hero is on one of those lists and Dick has only been called in two, maybe three times ever, so it doesn't mean much.
And yes, I'd say Dick should own Haly's. Not just work there, own it. You want him to have a source of revenue? He's got one. You want him building his own foundation as a solo character? Haly's is about the only thing his IP truly owns. You want him to keep at least one foot in his Bat roots? This goes back to his Robin origin story. You want him to have a job he's naturally qualified for, that is entertaining and true to his character? This is literally the only job he's ever had other than "hero" that he was able to hold down for more than five minutes, and it's a circus/entertainment venue/casino/whatever update you wanna spin. Want him to have a job that doesn't interfere with his heroics? Dick owns the place, but someone else runs the day-to-day. You want him traveling a lot? Haly's goes on tours. You want him stationary? Haly's is set in one spot (Gotham or Bludhaven or Jump City or anywhere). Want him travel but have a home to go back to? Haly's does the occasional tour only, and Dick travels a lot searching for talent.
It can be bright and fun for kid stories or have a seedy, dark underbelly for the more HBO minded. It can be left alone and ignored sort of like Wayne Enterprises often is, or it can be the focus of plots. It provides its own supporting cast, opportunity for guest stars from all corners of the DCU, it can be played as a street level affair with "standard" entertainments, or it can be more fantastical, with super human performers. Any story you can fit Dick into, you can fit Haly's.[/QUOTE]
This makes me wonder who should be in the supporting cast? Is there any important cast from Dick's past that can work?
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[QUOTE=cc008;4988456]Considering Waid wrote a wonderful Daredevil run...yeah I would be all for him writing Nightwing.[/QUOTE]
[center]Agreed. What a wonderful time for a reunion between Waid & Samnee :cool:
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChdRB4_U4AAoMNd.jpg[/img][/center]
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[QUOTE=K7P5V;4988550]Agreed. What a wonderful time for a reunion between Waid & Samnee[/QUOTE]
Yes!!! That's exactly what I was thinking.
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[QUOTE=K7P5V;4988550][center]Agreed. What a wonderful time for a reunion between Waid & Samnee :cool:
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChdRB4_U4AAoMNd.jpg[/img][/center][/QUOTE]
That art is so beautiful <3 It looks like a more realistic Darwyn Cooke. Chris Samnee is very talented.
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[QUOTE=K7P5V;4988550][center]Agreed. What a wonderful time for a reunion between Waid & Samnee :cool:
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChdRB4_U4AAoMNd.jpg[/img][/center][/QUOTE]
Oh my gosh that makes me tear up a little...man I miss that guy! Waid on Nightwing would be a dream come true, I think I would even take Liefeld on art nonotreally lol...but Samnee with Waid.....swoon!
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Waid and Samnee would be pretty fantastic. I feel like they could give us a really great Nightwing run that also cleanses the palate, so to speak. Something classic without being boring or out-dated or dragged down.
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Anybody know where this is from? It's hilarious
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/33/83/03/338303b87691d6cb0be28c13da4fe878.png[/img]
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[QUOTE=9th.;4990416]Anybody know where this is from? It's hilarious
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/33/83/03/338303b87691d6cb0be28c13da4fe878.png[/img][/QUOTE]
New 52 Secret Origins #1
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It's nice to have dreams. We will most likely get disappointed the upcoming months but at least we had a little hope.
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[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4990450]New 52 Secret Origins #1[/QUOTE]
Thank you so much
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Just bear in mind, it's no longer canon due to New Teen Titans (where he originally became Nightwing) being returned to continuity.
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That’s a Robin prototype. So it’s not necessarily invalidated from being canon.
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With the chest design and colour scheme, I assumed that was a Nightwing suit!
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For all of you what's the worst Nightwing costume? I mean if Zatanna and Dick were a couple. Maybe Zatanna and Dick meet at Haley's Cirus?
