Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[QUOTE=Ascended;5048391]Yes, basically.

At the very least, the most basic level, you're doing something no one else really is; putting a powerless vigilante up against super human threats, and not just low-end metas like Green Arrow fighting Brick, but legit powers who can blow up some serious sh*t. That's a fun spin that keeps Dick in the underdog role but also forces him to be at his most capable.

It'd force DC to write Nightwing like a utter badass, it'd provide a kind of book we don't see on the shelf very often, and it plays into both sides of Dick's life and character as a Bat and Titan.[/QUOTE]

Okay, if that's the concept then make him fight them openly. In the city. At twilight.

Because Red Hood when he's solo usually takes on the dark undercover job, and with Outlaws, they're basically Dark Titans.
So if Nightwing is solo Titans, let it be light and open. Fly in the sky.

Then when they go undercover, Red Hood will take the darker tone like he usually does, like being an enforcer, bodyguard, torturer, that kind of thing, and Dick takes the glamor part of being a secret agent like in Grayson, doing the seduction and shaking apple juice.

[QUOTE=Ascended;5048391]Yes, basically.

At the very least, the most basic level, you're doing something no one else really is; putting a powerless vigilante up against super human threats, and not just low-end metas like Green Arrow fighting Brick, but legit powers who can blow up some serious sh*t. That's a fun spin that keeps Dick in the underdog role but also forces him to be at his most capable.

It'd force DC to write Nightwing like a utter badass, it'd provide a kind of book we don't see on the shelf very often, and it plays into both sides of Dick's life and character as a Bat and Titan.[/QUOTE]

This is a simple premise that I can't believe isn't going on. You have a few one off metas/meta-type villains for non-powered heroes (Brick, Freeze, Bane) but no consistent roster of powers against non-powered.

I really want Dick to just live the superhero life. He could be in Gotham for a week, Metropolis for a day, Japan in an afternoon. He like the few other sidekicks have a unique position of growing up in a world of heroes, as heroes. His idea of a social life is drastically different than an average person. He could be off on a different planet working with heroes to save the universe, crashing on a couch in Atlantis, or defending the Watchtower from super-villains. He's a workaholic and a performer. I think of him kinda like stand up comedians, if they aren't working on material they are constantly hanging around each other or at comedy clubs just watching the craft. He lives and breathes this world, going back to some job or apartment doesn't seem like his thing anymore. That line of thinking worked with a Year One story or Dixon era of striking out on his own in a city where focusing on being his own person as an independent. But I think that line of thinking now mistakes dependence as a weakness or as a lesser form of living. He is a product of the world of DC not just Batman and I think it's only fitting for him to experience that world full time.

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5048427]Okay, if that's the concept then make him fight them openly. In the city. At twilight. [/QUOTE]

That's the idea. Dick is too bright and optimistic to always be in the shadows anyway.

[QUOTE=byrd156;5048428]This is a simple premise that I can't believe isn't going on. You have a few one off metas/meta-type villains for non-powered heroes (Brick, Freeze, Bane) but no consistent roster of powers against non-powered.[/QUOTE]

Right? And this is just one of the many brilliant ideas I have that'll never see print at DC. :p

[QUOTE=byrd156;5048428]This is a simple premise that I can't believe isn't going on. You have a few one off metas/meta-type villains for non-powered heroes (Brick, Freeze, Bane) but no consistent roster of powers against non-powered.

I really want Dick to just live the superhero life. He could be in Gotham for a week, Metropolis for a day, Japan in an afternoon. He like the few other sidekicks have a unique position of growing up in a world of heroes, as heroes. His idea of a social life is drastically different than an average person. He could be off on a different planet working with heroes to save the universe, crashing on a couch in Atlantis, or defending the Watchtower from super-villains. He's a workaholic and a performer. I think of him kinda like stand up comedians, if they aren't working on material they are constantly hanging around each other or at comedy clubs just watching the craft. He lives and breathes this world, going back to some job or apartment doesn't seem like his thing anymore. That line of thinking worked with a Year One story or Dixon era of striking out on his own in a city where focusing on being his own person as an independent. But I think that line of thinking now mistakes dependence as a weakness or as a lesser form of living. He is a product of the world of DC not just Batman and I think it's only fitting for him to experience that world full time.[/QUOTE]I agree with this but in order for something like this to happen (I know fans don't like this) nightwing will need more independence from batman. Nightwing can't be free for globetrotting if he has to be close to Gotham for events like joker war, bat team up and status quo shack ups see ric grayson.

There are alot of great ideas and possibilities for nightwing. But first thing nightwing needs is creative freedom. Just look at the Grayson run, dick was basically forced to be independent in grayson. Even if you don't like dick as a spy the series showed what dick could be when DC is forced to do something new and creative with dick.

[QUOTE=WonderNight;5049322](I know fans don't like this)[/QUOTE]

I can't speak for everyone of course, but at least around here it seems like the majority opinion is that we *want* Dick to have more independence from Bruce. Most of us don't seem to want him to cut ties completely (he *is* a Bat, after all), but it seems most of us here want Dick on his own.

To make him more independent he needs more of his own rogues. Not only that but also his own cast. One thing I would love to see is him having his own big event. Sometimes going to the past helps. So he needs his own main villain. Needs his own money. He's working on the strip would be a good idea. He does need his own base. I mean if he is a bat. He should have his own version of the Batcave.

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5049558]To make him more independent he needs more of his own rogues. Not only that but also his own cast. One thing I would love to see is him having his own big event. Sometimes going to the past helps. So he needs his own main villain. Needs his own money. He's working on the strip would be a good idea. He does need his own base. I mean if he is a bat. He should have his own version of the Batcave.[/QUOTE]

I feel like nightwing world is to small scale for a big event. It work in Grayson with the spy wars because he had that whole DCU spy sandbox to play with.

One of the recurring problems with the Nightwing series is DC ‘s interest in Dick having an occupation. This was temporarily resolved I Grayson, but Dick was soon a cabbie. He should be the most prominent, and glamorous, vigilante i the universe. Bruce should finance his operation as part of Batman, Inc....so Dick would earn his money, not be given it. He could be an independent contractor, not work for Bruce directly. A one man strike force, dropping by to help other heroes, kicking ass and taking names. The Bats can all operate in the dark...let Dick have his spotlight.

[QUOTE=WonderNight;5049322]I agree with this but in order for something like this to happen (I know fans don't like this) nightwing will need more independence from batman. Nightwing can't be free for globetrotting if he has to be close to Gotham for events like joker war, bat team up and status quo shack ups see ric grayson.

There are alot of great ideas and possibilities for nightwing. But first thing nightwing needs is creative freedom. Just look at the Grayson run, dick was basically forced to be independent in grayson. Even if you don't like dick as a spy the series showed what dick could be when DC is forced to do something new and creative with dick.[/QUOTE]

He can. Both Grayson and Batwoman Rebirth were working on a mission for Batman, it's just that mission allows them to go around the world. Even when Dick was at The Parliament of Owl's HQ he can go back to Gotham in time for an event.

but the writers need to want to do it, and the department needs to inform them in advance that there's an event.

Going back to the fact that Dick likes to stay close to the people he wants to help, if he does choose Bludhaven then he will mainly stay there unless there's an event that pushes him out like Helena and Spyral returning.

This is why I which DC viewed nightwing more as a titan than a bat. Nightwing could and should have no limits, he should be both a leaguer and titan. Instead of batman inc.
Nightwing should be a leaguer that goes on one man strike missions and at the same time be the leader of the titans. Solo nightwing= leaguer one man global strike force. Team nightwing= titan and face of the next generation.

Nightwing is regarded as as one of if not the most connected hero in the DCU. This is the way to play into by make nightwing the Bridge between generations. This is the guy who was a hero before 90% of the adult/leaguers lean into that. Have solo Nightwing be a leaguer and team nightwing be a titan.

I watch alot of YJ and I basically a leaguer in the show in S2E1 we see nightwing at a JL briefing than those and leads his team on the mission. Same thing in season 3.

Let nightwing be the bridge between generations.

I think I'm starting to get what Badou's saying about Bludhaven being a problem.
It's not that the city in itself is bad, but it's because he has a city that he's stuck in a city.

There may even be some design parameters they have to follow, patterned after Batman. Batman in Gotham, Batgirl of Burnside, Nightwing in Bludhaven, solving crimes within the city.

Even if they don't have that parameter or that's not an enforced rule... if Dick is given a city, the writer's first thought wouldn't be that he should go out.

He has a city, so he will take care of the city. Going out happens every once in a while. Just like Batman. The writers probably subconsciously follow Batman's example.

Seeley is different because he didn't start with a city, he started already global and then given a city, so the city just became part of his already larger world.

Other writers though, started with the thinking that they should play with the city.

It's like a mindset trap

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5049986]I think I'm starting to get what Badou's saying about Bludhaven being a problem.

It's like a mindset trap[/QUOTE]

It is, but just like Descartes' "demon world" the way to escape is to simply employ some logic.

Dick having a city makes writers want to fit him within the classic Batman mold. So avoiding the problems of Bat-lite is as simple as being aware of them and writing away from it. The city is only a chain around Dick's neck if the writer allows it to happen.

[QUOTE=Ascended;5050121]It is, but just like Descartes' "demon world" the way to escape is to simply employ some logic.

Dick having a city makes writers want to fit him within the classic Batman mold. So avoiding the problems of Bat-lite is as simple as being aware of them and writing away from it. The city is only a chain around Dick's neck if the writer allows it to happen.[/QUOTE]

When did Bat-lite perception first start?

I love that we had a Nightwing comic yesterday and no one even bothered to mention. :D
We are all just waiting for this to be over.

New comic day is still Wednesdays for me. Im not going to my shop 2 days in a rows. Though Jurgan's writing is so decompressed and shallow, there really isn't much to talk about beyond what we already talked about from the marketing. He does little beyond stretching out what we already know from the covers and general marketing. 75% of this weeks issue is just recap. Using Bea explaining to Babs to tell readers what has gone on in his run and put emphasis on his MacGuffin. While the other 25% is just what the marketing has revealed.