Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[QUOTE=Rac7d*;5107314]He ain’t going back to the leotard and pixie boots soooooooo[/QUOTE]

Exactly this.

And I'm fine with that. I'm sure the short shorts will still show up here and there in other products and stories, but main continuity isn't going to be hurt by that outfit not returning in its purely original aesthetic.

That said I don't want or need a bunch of excess on the costume either; you start adding in crap and you're left with a generic design that could belong to anyone. So I'd rather Dick's Robin suit just have some proper pants and boots, and leave all the rest largely as-is. But some pants aren't a problem, and I'm sure young Grayson will appreciate it during those cold Gotham nights. :)

Hopefully they'll adapt something more akin to the tv show now.

[url]https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/08/20/batman-99-the-dark-knight-and-his-allies-gather-for-a-final-push-to-save-gotham[/url]

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[QUOTE=Badou;5107268]They are going to use the shitty New 52 Robin costume aren't they and ruin it all?[/QUOTE]

As soon as i posted the preview, I knew you would comment about the suit at some point. :D

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5106999]Hang on I'm counting again
Rebirth backstory timespan is around 10-15 years
Dick here is based on New 52 around 16 years old
He's adopted as a child in King's Batman, unclear age

Okay yeah I can work with this

Say as an example Rebirth back story is 15 years
Current Nightwing - 25 years old
9 years ago - Justice League first meeting - 16 years old
4 years further (13 years ago) - Adopted - 12 years old
That still leaves 2 years - 15 years ago - Batman Year One

I mean there's no set age for his childhood so it can range between 10 to 12 years old but placing it at 12 conveniently set it in Batman Year Three

Well it makes sense if it's just Dick but you add Tim and Jon, and you have Dick meeting the League for the first time around the same time Jon was born and Tim already Robin and meeting Kon[/QUOTE]

If Dick is around 16 there does that mean he became Robin before the Justice League formed? Or is DC still going with the idea that Dick didn't become Robin until he was 15-16 still like in the New 52? Since it felt like for a long time DC wanted to make sure that the JL formed before Dick became Robin. It was very important to DC to establish that. If Dick became Robin at around 10 or 12 years old I don't know if DC would like the idea of Dick being Robin for 4-6 years before the JL existed.

So something feels a bit off here. I think Dick looks too old to be meeting the JL for the first time, or for some reason they are keeping the New 52 era ages? It is just weird.

[QUOTE=Drako;5107651]As soon as i posted the preview, I knew you would comment about the suit at some point. :D[/QUOTE]

I'll never understand it. There have been so many awful New 52 costumes and designs replaced and forgotten about (even Superman there is in his classic design with the red shorts) but for some reason this New 52 Robin one sticks around. It is completely uninspiring. You don't see any fanart of it or cosplay of it and it holds no special place at all in the fandom outside of being a reference to a bad stretch of comics, but it lingers around like a cancer or something. It just doesn't go away.

There is the iconic Robin costume that if you think is too dated that is fine, but instead of trying to take that iconic costume and change it in a way where it retains its iconic status and imagery we are just left with a bland "modern" Robin costume that no one cares about. It isn't how you properly support a brand and I don't really understand DC's thought process.

[QUOTE=Badou;5107690]
There is the iconic Robin costume that if you think is too dated that is fine, but instead of trying to take that iconic costume and change it in a way where it retains its iconic status and imagery we are just left with a bland "modern" Robin costume that no one cares about. It isn't how you properly support a brand and I don't really understand DC's thought process.[/QUOTE]

Just at a guess? DC doesn't care about the new old costume being recognizable or iconic.

We only see Dick's Robin suit in flashback, so it's not like it's got a big presence in the first place. And as long as it maintains the things that make a Robin costume recognizable (mask, cape, logo, color scheme) they're not gonna sweat the overall design sensibility.

They can and do still use the classic suit in their products (like Batman 66) and merchandise, so they're still profiting off of it.

Plus, making Dick and Jason's Robin suits super generic actually helps DC market Robin. A Robin in a generic suit could be any of them. A Robin in short shorts and pixie boots is far more recognizable and helps establish the identity of the person behind the mask. That gets in the way of the brand, in DC's reckoning.

If they ever did a big "Dick Grayson origin" story somewhere, as a mini or whatever, one would hope that they'd take his classic costume, throw some pants on it, and call it a day, retaining the original design everywhere except those silly ass shorts. Because you're right, the new old costume is generic and boring AF and could belong to any street level hero if you change the colors and logo. But it only appears in flashbacks, so it's not a priority for DC.

[QUOTE=Badou;5107690]If Dick is around 16 there does that mean he became Robin before the Justice League formed? Or is DC still going with the idea that Dick didn't become Robin until he was 15-16 still like in the New 52? Since it felt like for a long time DC wanted to make sure that the JL formed before Dick became Robin. It was very important to DC to establish that. If Dick became Robin at around 10 or 12 years old I don't know if DC would like the idea of Dick being Robin for 4-6 years before the JL existed.

So something feels a bit off here. I think Dick looks too old to be meeting the JL for the first time, or for some reason they are keeping the New 52 era ages? It is just weird. [/QUOTE]

We still don't know exactly when he became Robin. The earliest Dick age was in King's Batman, as a child, but he's just Dick there, really early on after his parents' death, still not Robin.

Unless there's something in Jurgens Nightwing but I'm not reading that

Technically both The Justice League and Robin can have their origin whenever in that first 5 years, but according to this preview Dick apparently only met them when he's a teen

[QUOTE=Ascended;5107715]Just at a guess? DC doesn't care about the new old costume being recognizable or iconic.

We only see Dick's Robin suit in flashback, so it's not like it's got a big presence in the first place. And as long as it maintains the things that make a Robin costume recognizable (mask, cape, logo, color scheme) they're not gonna sweat the overall design sensibility.

They can and do still use the classic suit in their products (like Batman 66) and merchandise, so they're still profiting off of it.

Plus, making Dick and Jason's Robin suits super generic actually helps DC market Robin. A Robin in a generic suit could be any of them. A Robin in short shorts and pixie boots is far more recognizable and helps establish the identity of the person behind the mask. That gets in the way of the brand, in DC's reckoning.

If they ever did a big "Dick Grayson origin" story somewhere, as a mini or whatever, one would hope that they'd take his classic costume, throw some pants on it, and call it a day, retaining the original design everywhere except those silly ass shorts. Because you're right, the new old costume is generic and boring AF and could belong to any street level hero if you change the colors and logo. But it only appears in flashbacks, so it's not a priority for DC.[/QUOTE]

I think they do care about iconic costumes, but they just don't care about Dick's Robin costume specifically. You see how much effort they are putting into making Superman's costume look more "iconic" with giving him his shorts back, and even giving Wonder Woman her classic golden elements instead of the silver her New 52 one had, but Dick is still stuck with his same garbage costume. It's frustrating to me.

And it sucks because this is what we are stuck with in basically every flashback with Dick as Robin now which is the only time he appears as Robin in a comic anymore. Flashbacks are all we get as there isn't really any modern Dick as Robin era comic stories. It ruins every continued appearance as Dick as Robin now because they are filtered though him and this awful New 52 costume, which means no one will ever look at these appearance as anything memorable.

Also I think Jason's New 52 Robin costume is actually WAY better than Dick's New 52 one. It actually retained a lot more classic elements. It had basic green pants and boots without the dumb things added on like Dick's, no crotch arrow, gave him a belt, had a less cluttered red vest, but also had the classic yellow cape and the open arms. Jason fans actually like that costume which is why you see it pop up in a lot of fanart with him still, but no one cares about Dick's New 52 one.

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5107733]We still don't know exactly when he became Robin. The earliest Dick age was in King's Batman, as a child, but he's just Dick there, really early on after his parents' death, still not Robin.

Unless there's something in Jurgens Nightwing but I'm not reading that

Technically both The Justice League and Robin can have their origin whenever in that first 5 years, but according to this preview Dick apparently only met them when he's a teen[/QUOTE]

It's just weird. If this is Dick's first time meeting the JL then there are 3 options and all are a bit odd to me. Either he became Robin late (no Boy Wonder era) like in the New 52 when he was around 16 and he meets the JL shortly after becoming Robin, he became Robin as a kid (8 to 12 years old) and was Robin for years until the JL first formed when he was around 16 and he meets them, or lastly he became Robin as a kid (8 to 12 years old) and the JL formed at the same time or before he was Robin but he didn't meet the JL even though he had been Robin for 4-8 years.

To me this feels like they are still trying to force in some New 52 elements by not wanting Dick to be Robin at a young age because of how it might effect some other characters, but I guess we will have to wait and see.

[QUOTE=Badou;5107846]I think they do care about iconic costumes, but they just don't care about Dick's Robin costume specifically. You see how much effort they are putting into making Superman's costume look more "iconic" with giving him his shorts back, and even giving Wonder Woman her classic golden elements instead of the silver her New 52 one had, but Dick is still stuck with his same garbage costume. It's frustrating to me.

And it sucks because this is what we are stuck with in basically every flashback with Dick as Robin now which is the only time he appears as Robin in a comic anymore. Flashbacks are all we get as there isn't really any modern Dick as Robin era comic stories. It ruins every continued appearance as Dick as Robin now because they are filtered though him and this awful New 52 costume, which means no one will ever look at these appearance as anything memorable.

Also I think Jason's New 52 Robin costume is actually WAY better than Dick's New 52 one. It actually retained a lot more classic elements. It had basic green pants and boots without the dumb things added on like Dick's, no crotch arrow, gave him a belt, had a less cluttered red vest, but also had the classic yellow cape and the open arms. Jason fans actually like that costume which is why you see it pop up in a lot of fanart with him still, but no one cares about Dick's New 52 one.



It's just weird. If this is Dick's first time meeting the JL then there are 3 options and all are a bit odd to me. Either he became Robin late (no Boy Wonder era) like in the New 52 when he was around 16 and he meets the JL shortly after becoming Robin, he became Robin as a kid (8 to 12 years old) and was Robin for years until the JL first formed when he was around 16 and he meets them, or lastly he became Robin as a kid (8 to 12 years old) and the JL formed at the same time or before he was Robin but he didn't meet the JL even though he had been Robin for 4-8 years.

To me this feels like they are still trying to force in some New 52 elements by not wanting Dick to be Robin at a young age because of how it might effect some other characters, but I guess we will have to wait and see.[/QUOTE]

Looks like the last option's the case, both JL and Robin existing but not interacting for quite some time. RIP Superman/Robin friendship.

Hey isn't that the batman arkham batmobile?

[QUOTE=DurararaFTW;5108008]Looks like the last option's the case, both JL and Robin existing but not interacting for quite some time. RIP Superman/Robin friendship.[/QUOTE]

I always read about Superman/Robin Friendship in this thread, but I have never seen them interacting much.

I know Nightwing identity is related to Superman. However, I don't think there was a lot of interactions between Dick and Clark at that time either.

So, when they were close?

[QUOTE=Konja7;5108094]I always read about Superman/Robin Friendship in this thread, but I have never seen them interacting much.

I know Nightwing identity is related to Superman. However, I don't think there was a lot of interactions between Dick and Clark at that time either.

So, when they were close?[/QUOTE]

Superman, Batman and Robin had years of adventures before there was a Justice League to speak off. Robin was at the founding of the Justice League originally. Nightwing has this status of being the one hero everyone in the DC community trusts exactly because he has been in the life as long as he has. New 52 messed with that quite a bit but I feel we are even further away from that status now.

[QUOTE=DurararaFTW;5108115]Superman, Batman and Robin had years of adventures before there was a Justice League to speak off. Robin was at the founding of the Justice League originally. Nightwing has this status of being the one hero everyone in the DC community trusts exactly because he has been in the life as long as he has. New 52 messed with that quite a bit but I feel we are even further away from that status now.[/QUOTE]

I guess that interactions happened before the 80s, right? I haven't looking much about comics before that time.

I think Dick was losing that status even before New52 (although he recovered it during his Batman time), because his interactions with other characters were reduced a lot.

Of maybe I just don't read enough comics.

[QUOTE=Konja7;5108119]I guess that interactions happened before the 80s, right? I haven't looking much about comics before that time.

I think Dick was losing that status even before New52 (although he recovered it during his Batman time), because his interactions with other characters were reduced a lot.

Of maybe I just don't read enough comics.[/QUOTE]

Before the 60s. The original World's Finest, while mainly about Superman and Batman also include Dick.

[QUOTE=Konja7;5108119]I guess that interactions happened before the 80s, right? I haven't looking much about comics before that time.

I think Dick was losing that status even before New52 (although he recovered it during his Batman time), because his interactions with other characters were reduced a lot.

Of maybe I just don't read enough comics.[/QUOTE]

Superman, Batman and Robin were always some of the earliest active heroes of the modern era. How much current Nightwing interacts with other characters may fluctuate but the idea that Superman and the rest of the Justice League had been introduced to most other heroes over a period of years before Robin met someone other then Batman, that's a new low.