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Miss Martian and Raven could probably sort Ric out in like a second, but whatever. That’s a why doesn’t Batman just call Superman situation. So I’ll give them a break there.
But Ric not knowing what memories are real at this point is just moronic. If it’s not blatantly obvious to him, which it logically should be, he can just turn on the news or google it. What’s more they have him asking a question that doesn’t even matter, cause he’s neither Ric the Talon or Dick Grayson. He’s Ric the homeless nothing. Neither memories actually matter or effect his current character anyway.
Quite frankly too much of Ric relies on its creators thinking their readers are either too stupid or just aren’t going to care about these kinds of things. It’s just textbook bad writing bred from laziness and not actually giving a crap.
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Why didn't Megan and Raven try it anyway? They would've known what had happened, as Nightwing was on the Titans with them until he got shot.
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The "in comics excuse" was that Dick, or I guess Ric, didn't want his memories back and didn't want anything to do with what his old life was, even though he ran off to Bludhaven immediately where he has zero connection to outside of being Nightwing there. So the whole set up falls apart right at the start. Apparently everyone in the DCU was fine with his decision for whatever reason. Which of course makes zero sense on multiple levels, but nothing about this story made any sense. Letting a person who just suffered a traumatic brain injury and lost their entire set of adolescent and adulthood memories make decisions for themselves that resulted in them abandoning everyone that knows them to live as a hobo in random strangers' houses and steal their food is completely stupid.
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[QUOTE=Digifiend;4839871]Why didn't Megan and Raven try it anyway? They would've known what had happened, as Nightwing was on the Titans with them until he got shot.[/QUOTE]
Ms. Martian said that fixing Ric was too risky and Raven had lost her connection to her soul self and couldn't do much of anything.
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[QUOTE=Digifiend;4839515]Doesn't Bruce own his own? Used it in The Return of Bruce Wayne 10 years ago, and that probably never stopped being canon because Dick's Batman tenure stayed in continuity.[/QUOTE]
They only keep the broad strokes. The details vary on each writer.
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I keep looking at Robin Year One and keep not buying it because I haven't decided how much realism I want in comics
The one scene I remember that people once posted was when Two-Face forced Dick to make a choice that resulted in someone's death, followed by a beat-up, followed by Gordon chewing Batman for it, followed by firing, followed by Alfred chewing Batman for it, and of course, the whole story ends with Gordon agreeing about Robin...
...and I can't help but feel all those either don't make sense, or everyone making bad decisions because the comic brings up the reality of death and trauma in a story about a kid wanting to be a superhero, all the while trying to justify the brand. All of this makes me confused about how much is too much realism in comics, or at least, in what I want.
It's like shooting Nightwing. By all rights, he should be wearing a bulletproof cowl from now on, now that they bring it up, but we know they won't.
or how writers invest in years of Batman perfecting his war on crime by giving him various tech to cover his weakness as human but won't do the same for the kids.
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[QUOTE=Godlike13;4839582]Miss Martian and Raven could probably sort Ric out in like a second, but whatever. That’s a why doesn’t Batman just call Superman situation. So I’ll give them a break there.
But Ric not knowing what memories are real at this point is just moronic. If it’s not blatantly obvious to him, which it logically should be, he can just turn on the news or google it. What’s more they have him asking a question that doesn’t even matter, cause he’s neither Ric the Talon or Dick Grayson. He’s Ric the homeless nothing. Neither memories actually matter or effect his current character anyway.
Quite frankly too much of Ric relies on its creators thinking their readers are either too stupid or just aren’t going to care about these kinds of things. It’s just textbook bad writing bred from laziness and not actually giving a crap.[/QUOTE]
Creatively bankrupt, the current writing is. It's just strip-mining as much drama as it can from a silly and poorly-received plot.
But I don't know. I'm torn between seeing a poor Nightwing run, or no Nightwing run at all. The former has the hope that maybe, [I]maybe[/I] a writer interested in Nightwing will come along, while the latter, if extended too long, might mean Nightwing won't ever have a book again.
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[QUOTE=xiyon;4840009]Creatively bankrupt, the current writing is. It's just strip-mining as much drama as it can from a silly and poorly-received plot.
But I don't know. I'm torn between seeing a poor Nightwing run, or no Nightwing run at all. The former has the hope that maybe, [I]maybe[/I] a writer interested in Nightwing will come along, while the latter, if extended too long, might mean Nightwing won't ever have a book again.[/QUOTE]
Dick's too popular to be in limbo for too long. I mean, things could spiral even further out of control than they are, and things could get real bad. Anything's possible. And that could be a serious detriment to the character. But unless the world goes totally bonkers, he's relatively safe from long-term limbo. He's the first Robin; that alone ensures he's somewhere in continuity. He's too well entrenched as the first Robin for someone else to take that position in a reboot (no one will accept Tim as the first, for example). And the fact that there are other popular Robins that DC makes money from help ensure that Dick gets aged up to Nightwing; you can't have Damian and Jason without him. And he does well in larger media, which helps provide *some* pressure to use him.
DC can't get rid of him because he's too big a player, has too much history central to the Bat mythos, and is too popular, so they've chosen the next best thing; treating him so badly his fans abandon him. We *should* abandon the book until the quality rises, otherwise DC will never give us anything better. But we can support Dick without rewarding DC for this kind of crap, and we *should* do that.
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[QUOTE=Ascended;4840165]Dick's too popular to be in limbo for too long. I mean, things could spiral even further out of control than they are, and things could get real bad. Anything's possible. And that could be a serious detriment to the character. But unless the world goes totally bonkers, he's relatively safe from long-term limbo. He's the first Robin; that alone ensures he's somewhere in continuity. He's too well entrenched as the first Robin for someone else to take that position in a reboot (no one will accept Tim as the first, for example). And the fact that there are other popular Robins that DC makes money from help ensure that Dick gets aged up to Nightwing; you can't have Damian and Jason without him. And he does well in larger media, which helps provide *some* pressure to use him.
DC can't get rid of him because he's too big a player, has too much history central to the Bat mythos, and is too popular, so they've chosen the next best thing; treating him so badly his fans abandon him. We *should* abandon the book until the quality rises, otherwise DC will never give us anything better. But we can support Dick without rewarding DC for this kind of crap, and we *should* do that.[/QUOTE]
I think the way to handle that isn't to abandon Dick, but to abandon DC.
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[QUOTE=king81992;4839970]Ms. Martian said that fixing Ric was too risky and Raven had lost her connection to her soul self and couldn't do much of anything.[/QUOTE]Raven got fixed when Titans was cancelled. So that excuse doesn't hold after that.
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Diana is literal a call away. So they are really only using it for plot reasons. They really don’t want to cut this storyline short. When Ric ends. Will we even get a good Nightwing story. Before Ric did he have good stories?
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4840781]Diana is literal a call away. So they are really only using it for plot reasons. They really don’t want to cut this storyline short. When Ric ends. Will we even get a good Nightwing story. Before Ric did he have good stories?[/QUOTE]
Better Than Batman and Nightwing: Year One are his only [i]good[/i] ones. Freefall and The Great Leap are enjoyable. That’s about it.
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Seeley’s run on the title was solid. So it’s not that the book was bad before Ric, but it was in creator hell after Seeley wanted out. As soon as they found someone to write the book for more then an arc they did Ric and ran him off. The likelihood we will get even decent stories after Ric is probably slim. Cause while Ric might end, his book being a refuge for boring complacent creators like Jurgans will probably continue.
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4840781]Diana is literal a call away. So they are really only using it for plot reasons. They really don’t want to cut this storyline short. When Ric ends. Will we even get a good Nightwing story. Before Ric did he have good stories?[/QUOTE]
[I]Grayson[/I] is so much fun to read through again. So enjoyable.
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[QUOTE=Pohzee;4840787]Better Than Batman and Nightwing: Year One are his only [i]good[/i] ones. Freefall and The Great Leap are enjoyable. That’s about it.[/QUOTE]
Was gonna argue with you, but well... I honestly just disagree with your use of "good."
I'd say that Better Than Batman is great. I never really thought Nightwing Year One was anything to write home about. I'd put a slew of TPBs into the "good" category, including nearly all of Seeley's run, Traps and Trapeezes (which gets a bad rap because n52 took so much away from Dick), Freefall and Great Leap (as you've said), The Untouchable (again, underrated because of what it follows, in this case Seeley's run).
Under that you've got your "pretty good," with most of Dixon's run, most of Higgins' run, and the bleeding edge stuff. Then you've the dross like tentacle Jason.
It is clear though, that most of Dick's [I]great[/I] stories were told with him not as a solo Nightwing. Dark Mirror, Batman & Robin, and Grayson all shine out above his Nightwing stuff. Even Robin Year One, IMO, is better than most of his solo title stuff.
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Yeah, I feel like there’s a difference between a good when it comes to comics and most media. The fact that there is a comic that gets a 9.0 average on comic book roundup tells you all you need to know about the standards of the medium.
All of the stories you listed are enjoyable, but nothing to write home about. If you aren’t a fan of the character, they aren’t worth reading. Which is my criteria of good.
It does give a slight bias towards beginner friendly stories like Year One, but that truly is more memorable than anything else.
And I strongly agree that most of his best stuff is when he isn’t Nightwing. Those are all great stories.
