I think Badou called it, with Jurgan's bringing his Beyond stuff to fruition. And while yes i know 5G is suppose to bring an influx of new creators, i think Nightwing will none the less remain a fodder book for Jurgans.
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I think Badou called it, with Jurgan's bringing his Beyond stuff to fruition. And while yes i know 5G is suppose to bring an influx of new creators, i think Nightwing will none the less remain a fodder book for Jurgans.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;4888786]I think Badou called it, with Jurgan's bringing his Beyond stuff to fruition. And while yes i know 5G is suppose to bring an influx of new creators, i think Nightwing will none the less remain a fodder book for Jurgans.[/QUOTE]
Entirely possible.
We'll see if Jim Lee is as good as his word about protecting Nightwing. I feel like, with 5G on the horizon and even that getting changed and altered, we can't really be sure of much right now.
Though to be fair to Lee, if changes are made concerning Nightwing it might take time to enact. It's possible Jurgens might remain on the book short term as a placeholder while Lee arranges for something else. I'll give the man some time; comics aren't made overnight. If plans are changing it'll take time to hit the shelves, but by year's end I think we'll have our answer about how Lee views the property and what value he ascribes to it.
I honestly don't think Lee cares one way or another. He isn't concerned with what a mid to low-mid selling book about an ancillary Batman character does and isn't changing any plans to accommodate the the character. He thinks about more important things and probably even thinks they are doing find by the character currently because he has nothing invested in him. I think his comments months ago was just him placating fans because someone asked him a question about the character, and in reality Nightwing's book and situation isn't something he concerns himself with at all. He's shown zero evidence of caring about or protecting the character to this point, so I don't know why that would suddenly change.
Didio did a good job positioning himself as a lighting rod, but a lot of this falls under the purview of to DC’s EiC and more directly the current Bat office.
[QUOTE=Badou;4888954]I honestly don't think Lee cares one way or another. He isn't concerned with what a mid to low-mid selling book about an ancillary Batman character does and isn't changing any plans to accommodate the the character. He thinks about more important things and probably even thinks they are doing find by the character currently because he has nothing invested in him. I think his comments months ago was just him placating fans because someone asked him a question about the character, and in reality Nightwing's book and situation isn't something he concerns himself with at all. He's shown zero evidence of caring about or protecting the character to this point, so I don't know why that would suddenly change.[/QUOTE]
Well, I've talked about this from the business end a whole lot, and nobody needs to read all of that again. I'll just say that, with the limited information we have access to, and not knowing the unique quirks of this particular industry, I can see plenty of business reasoning to invest in the IP.
Now, since we don't have all the data there could certainly be variables that prove my assessment wrong. And I can't completely rule out my own bias unduly coloring my judgement (though if I've let it, my professors would kick my ass; they taught me better). But knowing what we know? I can make a hell of an argument.
Now, even if I'm right that doesn't mean anything will change. Didio's gone but Harras is still around, and words are cheap so we'll have to wait for Jim Lee's actions to know if he's actually going to protect the character (whatever that means).
But I do think we have 3 reasons to have a little hope.
Didio's gone. Like Godlike says, he always took the heat for everything even if it wasn't his fault, but in this case? I don't think he was protecting anyone else. Harras or whoever may agree with him, but Didio was definitely a major reason Dick got treated so poorly in recent years and I've never found a business theory or structure that supports it. With him gone, that's at least one roadblock out of the way.
Between Didio being fired and the 5G initiative, AT&T is actually paying attention to the publishing right now. Normally this stuff is too small for them to care about, but right now they're actually looking at what the comics do. And if these guys aren't taking the opportunity to do cost and market analysis I will eat my best hat. So if I'm right about the IP having more profit potential, AT&T will see it too and I doubt they'll be cool with the publishing letting money slip through their fingers because management has a hair across their ass. Even if it's a minuscule amount of money compared to what AT&T usually deals with, no business lets a penny slip through their fingers that they don't have to.
And tying it all together is Lifford. She's in charge of all things DC and is supposed to encourage cross market synergy and maximize brand recognition. Now, we know Nightwing is all over larger media and does well there. We know that in comics (discounting the current mess) he's got a high sales floor, some of the most consistent sales in the industry, and tons of pedigree. Wouldn't take much for Lifford to decide Nightwing has value and tell DC to push him more.
I've said in the past that all Dick needs is for someone above DC's management to take notice. Right now the guys above DC are actually looking at the publishing. If they're gonna notice, it'll happen now. Of course, whatever happens it'll be months before we see the result. But right now I think we've got reason to have a little hope.
Dick has four stories in the Robin Special.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/QOXO4I5.jpg[/IMG]
Dick's debut... and he [B][I]killed[/I][/B] some crooks!
[url]https://www.cbr.com/robin-the-boy-wonder-killer-debut/[/url]
We know that 5G is going to be changing slightly so who knows. Also, do you guys think Dick will appear in Harley Quinn?
Comic book stores will be closed on wensday
Mine will still be open. I suggest people check before hand though.
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;4891423]Comic book stores will be closed on wensday[/QUOTE]Some will, not all. In New York, Forbidden Planet is shut, but JHU and Midtown will be open.
[url]https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/03/17/forbidden-planet-nyc-closes-for-a-week-but-jhu-and-midtown-comics-stay-open/[/url]
I certainly think the piracy websites will be seeing extra traffic due to people not being able to pick up their pulls but not wanting to wait to read the comics or pay a second time for them.
I love the previews
Hey, Dick just paid a visit here to my city.
[IMG]https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Grayson-Robin-80th-Comic-Preview-1.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=1137[/IMG]
[IMG]https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Grayson-Robin-80th-Comic-Preview-2.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=1137[/IMG]
[IMG]https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Grayson-Robin-80th-Comic-Preview-3.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=1137[/IMG]
[url]https://screenrant.com/dc-robin-special-comic-dick-grayson-preview/?utm_content=buffer844b2&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_source=SR-TW&utm_campaign=SR-TW[/url][
[QUOTE=Drako;4892359]Hey, Dick just paid a visit here to my city.
[IMG]https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Grayson-Robin-80th-Comic-Preview-1.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=1137[/IMG]
[IMG]https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Grayson-Robin-80th-Comic-Preview-2.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=1137[/IMG]
[IMG]https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Grayson-Robin-80th-Comic-Preview-3.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=1137[/IMG]
[url]https://screenrant.com/dc-robin-special-comic-dick-grayson-preview/?utm_content=buffer844b2&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_source=SR-TW&utm_campaign=SR-TW[/url][[/QUOTE]
Agent 37! Man I miss that book so much.
[QUOTE=Ascended;4888760]I'm very curious what that event is going to bring. Jon Kent as Superman? Luke Fox as Batman? Sure, whatever I guess? But what is it gonna do to guys like Dick? Even if there's a time skip he wouldn't be aged out of the role (unless it's a really big skip anyway). So him and his peers are going to be older and more experienced than the League, but they won't be the League? Where are they gonna fit?[/QUOTE]
Sounds like the Justice Society. And we know what happened to them first chance Didio had.
That Agent 37 preview was great. Man, what a step down Nightwing was. Would be cool if he becomes a Spy again but i won't hold my breath :/
[QUOTE=WonderNight;4892418]Agent 37! Man I miss that book so much.[/QUOTE]
Right? So good! My son and I just started watching Young Justice season 3 again (nobody is going too far these next few weeks, need some way to pass the time) and between that show and this preview....man, I'm missing my awesome badass super spy Grayson right now.
[QUOTE=Timber Wolf-By-Night;4892439]Sounds like the Justice Society. And we know what happened to them first chance Didio had.[/QUOTE]
I doubt Didio planned on the Titans generation having even as much presence as the JSA did. But Didio is gone, plans are changing, and the industry might very well find itself with some extra lead time, if distribution shuts down like everyone else. So who knows what we'll actually get come this fall? The odds might still be slim that anything substantially better will happen for Nightwing, but those odds are better now than they were a few months ago, and I'm gonna hope for the best.
[QUOTE=Ascended;4892610]the industry might very well find itself with some extra lead time, if distribution shuts down like everyone else.[/QUOTE]Even if print distribution stops, nothing's stopping digital releases continuing on schedule.
[QUOTE=Se7en;4892474]That Agent 37 preview was great. Man, what a step down Nightwing was. Would be cool if he becomes a Spy again but i won't hold my breath :/[/QUOTE]
Tell me about man. I love nightwing but outside of the name and costume it has nothing. Grayson gives dick an entire genre and corner of the DCU to play with. So much potential.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;4892641]Tell me about man. I love nightwing but outside of the name and costume it has nothing. Grayson gives dick an entire genre and corner of the DCU to play with. So much potential.[/QUOTE]
That whole corner has been co-opted by Bendis and Leviathan.
[QUOTE=Jackalope89;4892675]That whole corner has been co-opted by Bendis and Leviathan.[/QUOTE]well I never said dick would own the corner I said play in it.
So get rid of Nightwing everyone is saying? Can't he both be Nightwing and a Spy? I mean Nightwing is more popular than having him be a spy. There are already too many spies in the media in movies and in comics. What makes him stand out. I know the same can be said about him being a costumed hero. But still. You get the right person and it's easy. The spy thing can just be bad in the wrong hands. I mean Dick already has training in Espionage. So really he can be a spy with or without working for an agency. I mean wasn't be doing that in Young Justice? Using Haley's Circus as a cover to look around?
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4892746]So get rid of Nightwing everyone is saying? Can't he both be Nightwing and a Spy? I mean Nightwing is more popular than having him be a spy. There are already too many spies in the media in movies and in comics. What makes him stand out. I know the same can be said about him being a costumed hero. But still. You get the right person and it's easy. The spy thing can just be bad in the wrong hands. I mean Dick already has training in Espionage. So really he can be a spy with or without working for an agency. I mean wasn't be doing that in Young Justice? Using Haley's Circus as a cover to look around?[/QUOTE]He should be a spy as nightwing.
And so what if nightwing is more popular, it's most as a support character to batman and dick as robin is more popular than both. So should he go back to Robin?
Yes there are alot of spy's in media (because it's a cool concept) but how many of them has the crazy DCU as there playground?
The argument that Grayson or nightwing as a spy doesn't work because it could be bad in the wrong hands so why bother. I dont get that argument. You can say that about nightwing (I mean ric grayson anyone) superman, batman, wonder woman, justice league any book. Should dc not push those characters and book also or its just Grayson it has that problem.
Grayson is just better than nightwing.
DC will not get rid of Nightwing and you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
Nightwing #70:
[spoil]Joker got that crystal macguffin with Dicks memories. It's even more clear now that he'll get his memories back at the end of Joker War.[/spoil]
[QUOTE=Drako;4892932]DC will not get rid of Nightwing and you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
Nightwing #70:
[spoil]Joker got that crystal macguffin with Dicks memories. It's even more clear now that he'll get his memories back at the end of Joker War.[/spoil][/QUOTE]
Wooww this is getting dragged to 2 yrs at this point. What did we do to deserve this
[QUOTE=Digifiend;4892613]Even if print distribution stops, nothing's stopping digital releases continuing on schedule.[/QUOTE]
That's true. Production can be done from home, so I don't really see current events throwing a wrench into things as far as comics go, but you never know. But even then, 5G isn't supposed to hit until close to the end of the year, so any awful, Didio-fueled 5G plans for Dick could be changed before it hits the pages.
[QUOTE=Darkcrusade25;4893058]Wooww this is getting dragged to 2 yrs at this point. What did we do to deserve this[/QUOTE]
We liked a character Didio didn't.
Oh, and put me down for "Nightwing: Super Spy" too. It's a great niche, DC barely does anything with it, and it fits Nightwing nicely. I don't know why DC backed off the idea. I get putting him back in costume; that was necessary, but dumping the entire spy angle seems like a massive waste.
[QUOTE=Drako;4892932]DC will not get rid of Nightwing and you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
Nightwing #70:
[spoil]Joker got that crystal macguffin with Dicks memories. It's even more clear now that he'll get his memories back at the end of Joker War.[/spoil][/QUOTE]
When did I say dc should get rid of nightwing? I said nightwing should be more than a name and costume. But I guess alot of fans them some over glorified sidekick status quos.
The only thing worse then actually having read the inexcusable lazy trash of a story that is Ric, is having these bum writers explain it over and over every damn issue. I couldn’t imagine trying to read this lazy trash in trade form.
Ugh, anyway the issue was just more of moving at a snails pace. Most of the issue consists of telling readers the story so far, from Ric, to Talon, to the crystal. There is only like 4 pages that actually moves the plot along. Which is more or less how every issue under Jurgans goes.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;4893520]The only thing worse then actually having read the inexcusable lazy trash of a story that is Ric, is having these bum writers explain it over and over every damn issue. I couldn’t imagine trying to read this lazy trash in trade form.
[…][/QUOTE]
Like Joker said: «If you have to explain a joke, there's no joke!»
[video=youtube;DOP-2ulq2bk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOP-2ulq2bk[/video]
The Robin anniversary on the other hand, I loved it. It was more the story of Nightwing then of Robin. I have to give it to them, the way it was set up and presented was well done. And I’ve been hard on all those years at one time or another, but I thought they did a cool job a presenting a snapshot of Nightwing and Dick’s progression from the days of Wolfman to Seeley/Grayson. Which was hilarious btw.
Finally, Dick is allowed to grow up and leave in a respectful, loving manner.
Make this cannon, and leave it be.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;4893502]When did I say dc should get rid of nightwing? I said nightwing should be more than a name and costume. But I guess alot of fans them some over glorified sidekick status quos.[/QUOTE]
I don't agree with the view of him being a glorified sidekick, but I also think he should be more than a name and costume and need a clear direction after the Ric mess.
Diana has been having trouble for tears. So has Dick. This is why I feel going to the basics are important. Not just throwing him in random stuff. That’s what helped Diana.
He can literally be a spy on his own without being in a group. Dc has already put in in so many. What would be so wrong for him to just go undercover as a spy with information he gets. He already allowed how to get information without being a costume. I’m just terrible. He is in Batfam and other things. Can’t he just do his own thing like begin a Private id meeting him go undercover and other spy elements
It’s not that it’s the sidekick. Italics just Dc has been abusing him and messing him up. So to just throw the spy thing doesn’t feel like it helps when the next writer will screw him up.
Here is the things that need to be answered
what is his status in the Batfam
What should his status be in Dc.
What are his skills
why do you love Dick?
What makes him stand out?
This week in Nightwing featured another issue of some of the lowest of the lows since the Rickening. It's not even that there isn't some sort of an interesting premise going on in there. On paper if you were to write out the "Ric Saga" as a list of bullet points for story concepts, none of it would be outright bad. Just the mix of really, really stock tropes, lack of defining moments or interesting character beats, same old same old type plotting and usage of dudes like Joker in ancillary books, plus the fact it's a direction we were all sick of the first day. And unremarkable art that isn't selling the concept. Just all in all bad execution.
Which is why I grinned ear to ear reading a good and proper brand new "missing" half-chapter, of GRAYSON.
I'll get more into the Robin 85 Special in all the various appropriate places, but man there was a lot to love in that book, from creative teams, to punchy story length and solid historical framework and self-referencing. A missing mini-issue of Grayson ... a Titans story about Dick's mastery of disguise that works with late 90s/early 20s canon well but also sets up for the swish the transition into Grayson chapter. A missing Tim Drake short that's basically just a prologue to Tynion's Detective run. A mini-chapter of Damian that's literally tying into something interesting happening with him ongoing presently. A lovely coda for the "Same Age" era of the Super Sons. I want all of these things to be effortlessly slipped into Omnibuses and Collections.
How good is the 80t anniversary?
Surprisingly good.
Agent 37 was great, actually.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4894272]He can literally be a spy on his own without being in a group. Dc has already put in in so many. What would be so wrong for him to just go undercover as a spy with information he gets. He already allowed how to get information without being a costume. I’m just terrible. He is in Batfam and other things. Can’t he just do his own thing like begin a Private id meeting him go undercover and other spy elements
[/QUOTE]Heck, the Agent 37 story wasn't the only one in which he was a spy! [spoil]In the Titans story, he's infiltrated HIVE.[/spoil]
I really miss Dick as Agent 37. That was a great run.
[QUOTE=Digifiend;4894921]Heck, the Agent 37 story wasn't the only one in which he was a spy! [spoil]In the Titans story, he's infiltrated HIVE.[/spoil][/QUOTE]
I don't mind if he is a spy. Rather why does he have to be it in an agency and not on his own? He works as a Private Detective. So he makes money and can work into spy elements. It's just we have him in many groups. Why not solo on his own. I rather have it is he is someone they call to be agent 37 or he can pick cases from them when it becomes 37.
It's been a while since I've read great Dick Grayson stories. I enjoyed all of the stories.
It was a nice touch having the stories celebrated the various stages of his 80 years in publication. I only wish they had a 5th one with Batman and Robin. I don't mind though. Robin, Nightwing, Titans and Agent 37 are all his. A reminder that Dick Grayson is a solid and versatile whose contribution to the world of comics is up there with the best.
Happy Birthday Grayson.