Printable View
[QUOTE=DurararaFTW;5081521]Nice is all the Nightwing interactions have time for these days it seems.[/QUOTE]
Right? That is so frustrating. Is Dick an empathetic guy? Absolutely. Can he often be stubborn and live up to his name in the heat of the moment? Also yes.
[QUOTE=Wingin' It;5081508]I really miss the days when Dick would challenge Bruce BECAUSE he believed he could do better. Like, he and Bruce would physically fight more than any of the other bat-allies because Dick and Bruce both have a temper, and Dick wouldn't hesitate to get in his face about stuff if he felt like he needed someone to do so. He was never a yes man, and not that he has really been depicted that way a ton...but their dynamic has been lacking this flavor since the reboot.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely agreed.
I also think these two know how to push each others' buttons better than anyone, and they end up intentionally pissing each other off when they start to argue.
Durarara is right about Dick getting forced into the "nice one" role too. Somewhere along the line, the various ex-Robins all got pushed into a single definition; Dick's the nice one, Jason is the angry one, Tim's the smart one. I know King said this outright in HiC but I think it's been going on a long time.
I really miss the "dangerous" side of Dick.
More Tokusatsu Nightwing by Dan Mora. This design is so good, i wish it was official.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/jl2EXEi.jpg[/IMG]
[url]https://www.instagram.com/p/CDfW0vuFzpH/[/url]
[QUOTE=Drako;5081755]More Tokusatsu Nightwing by Dan Mora. This design is so good, i wish it was official.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/jl2EXEi.jpg[/IMG]
[url]https://www.instagram.com/p/CDfW0vuFzpH/[/url][/QUOTE]
That's a sharp outfit, Nightwing. Careful, you might puncture the hull of an empire-class Fire Nation battleship, leaving thousands to drown at sea.
....because it's so sharp.
I could dig it as Dick’s take on a power armor.
[QUOTE=Drako;5081755]More Tokusatsu Nightwing by Dan Mora. This design is so good, i wish it was official.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/jl2EXEi.jpg[/IMG]
[url]https://www.instagram.com/p/CDfW0vuFzpH/[/url][/QUOTE] This should be nightwing's kryptonian armor Clark gives him for big events.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5081498]I have no real expectations for Dick's return. A line or two talking about his injury and then standard crap where Dick cheerleads for Bruce and talks about how Batman is just the niftiest, golly keenest dude ever and he's the only man who can possibly win the day. Or whatever.
And that's more than I want already. Dick's return, and indeed all the major moments in his story, should be happening in his own gods damn book instead of Batman's. The argument that this will get more attention does have some merit, but not a ton, since so many of us keep apace of things online. And it just reinforces the "sidekick" mentality.[/QUOTE]
The argument that it being in batman's book get more attention is kinda true, but it does more harm than good in the long run because if all of the big character defining thing for dick keeps happening in other books. Than why am I reading nightwing?
Nightwing just ends up being a side book for a side character in dick. If his book is not going to matter to the dcu at least let it matter to himself.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5081957]The argument that it being in batman's book get more attention is kinda true, but it does more harm than good in the long run because if all of the big character defining thing for dick keeps happening in other books. Than why am I reading nightwing? [/QUOTE]
That's what I'm saying. Yes, more readers will see Dick back as Nightwing when it happens in a Batman book.....but so what? If those readers are interested in Nightwing, they likely already know he's got a solo. Nightwing has been on the stands every month for years, his series is not a big secret.
And that Dan Mora art.....hot damn. Why isn't this guy on a DC book already?
[QUOTE=disillusion386;5081073]Low expectations. It's a Batman book. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Ric saga will come down to maybe one or two lines to acknowledge it happened without moving much of Dick's status forward.[/QUOTE]
This. I dislike that he's return is in another character's title in a story that isn't about him. Dick's return should be done in a story centred on his character. Handling it like this shows that nothing has changed
[QUOTE=Drako;5081755]More Tokusatsu Nightwing by Dan Mora. This design is so good, i wish it was official.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/jl2EXEi.jpg[/IMG]
[url]https://www.instagram.com/p/CDfW0vuFzpH/[/url][/QUOTE]
that could be a decent Nightwing and Flamebird design!
So we are still waiting to see if Dick gets a new creative team? Has it become clear we are stuck with this one or is there hope?
I'm torn because keeping the current "eh" creators will blunt any potential of momentum for a return. But I also don't want a hot new creative team to even have to touch upon this garbage.
[QUOTE=dropkickjake;5082575]that could be a decent Nightwing and Flamebird design!
So we are still waiting to see if Dick gets a new creative team? Has it become clear we are stuck with this one or is there hope?[/QUOTE]
I don't think we know yet how long Jurgens will be around. We know he's doing 75, but past that I haven't anything about creative teams.
As for that Dan Mora art....if we could take the red suit with the arm stripe, and use the blue coloring, I think we'd have a pretty damn near perfect update to the suit.
Replacing the full helmet for a more recognizable mask too, obviously. :p
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5081957]The argument that it being in batman's book get more attention is kinda true, but it does more harm than good in the long run because if all of the big character defining thing for dick keeps happening in other books. Than why am I reading nightwing?
Nightwing just ends up being a side book for a side character in dick. If his book is not going to matter to the dcu at least let it matter to himself.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the absolute best case scenario for Joker War is that Dick takes something *out* of the [I]Batman [/I]book, that [I]Batman[/I]-but-not-[I]Nightwing [/I]readers will want to follow.
As others have said, the best bet for that is Deathstroke. Let the story have a big "Deathstroke vs Nightwing" moment, Nightwing beating Slade when Bruce can't because of their shared history, and then spin the repercussions of that into a new [I]Nightwing[/I] or [I]Titans[/I] run and hope people follow.
[QUOTE=Claude;5083033]Yeah, the absolute best case scenario for Joker War is that Dick takes something *out* of the [I]Batman [/I]book, that [I]Batman[/I]-but-not-[I]Nightwing [/I]readers will want to follow.
As others have said, the best bet for that is Deathstroke. Let the story have a big "Deathstroke vs Nightwing" moment, Nightwing beating Slade when Bruce can't because of their shared history, and then spin the repercussions of that into a new [I]Nightwing[/I] or [I]Titans[/I] run and hope people follow.[/QUOTE]
I just hope they didn't think Nightwing being the one to take down Punchline would be seen as a compelling win for a returning Nightwing.
I doubt they’ll even have Nightwing take Punchline down. At this point current bat office is more invested in her then they are him.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5073636]Well. Dick was treated better in other movies just not the new 52 movies. Maybe one reason is simply that they didn't know how to use Dick or didn't care. They probably knew they were going to reboot anyway. Hope he will be treated better.
I wonder sometimes in order to make a better character we have to take them out of the normal. What has Nightwing not done?[/QUOTE]
curious how exactly was he treated badly?
I don't believe that they didn't care or know how to use the character. The same people gave us gems like Caped Crusaders. I know they planned a 3rd Titans movie set just after Star arrived on Earth so focused on Dick's time as Robin.
Shame since that would have meant the shared Universe would have a movie for all the key stages in his history aside from Grayson. Celebrating his successes and his most successful identities
The movie we never got [Robin]- The OG Robin founding member of Teen Titans
Judas contract - The NTT Nightwing TT
Bad Blood - DickBATS
Hush - Nightwing solo Hero and son of Bruce wayne [this movie gave us more of Bruce and Dick interacting like father and son. It reflected their closeness.
I think the people behind the movies know the character well. They cared enough to come up with a plan on how to cram 80 years of comics history into approx 15 hrs [ Total runtime of all the batverse and TT focused movies set in the shared universe] while highlighting some of what makes him such an enduring character.
Alfred, Bruce and Dick as a family. THE Batfamily - pretty much conveyed in the way they interact.
Even his patience, encouragement, frustration and positive influence on Damian - Son of batman sparring scene and TT v JL Damian joining the TT
His maturity, heroic nature, sense of humour, his ability to easily handle Damian without ever getting down to his level, The only Robin who has never seriously thrown hands with a 10 year old - Son of batman where Dick easily takes down Damian and ties him up in a comedic fashion. Restraining him instead of fighting him.
A true Hero. Dick is the only batcharacter who has spent pretty much all his life as a hero on the field [He started at age 8 and is now an adult, Bruce spent years training becoming batman as a young man] - JLD: AW - Dick literally gives up his life saving Damian
Dick as the other head of the batfamily - Bad blood. Bruce goes missing Dick steps up and rallies everyone together.
Even the fact that Bruce is often cruel, uncaring and a D bag to Dick is conveyed in the scene where Dick is pinned to the wall and Bruce rather than going to free him hugs Damian.
The animation team treated him well especially when you consider the limitations {total runtime of all the movies as mentioned prior]
And the Fact that he was a lead in just 2 of the movies.
We got Dick bats, RobinDick, Dick and Deathstroke long running feud, Nightwing, his relationship with Starfire etc to say they didn't know what to with him must be a joke or sarcasm because they clearly did a lot.
Curious what would you have done with him?
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5083093]I doubt they’ll even have Nightwing take Punchline down. At this point current bat office is more invested in her then they are him.[/QUOTE]
Punchline?
[QUOTE=TheCape;5083111]Punchline?[/QUOTE]
Haven't read her, but I understand her to be the Joker's new girlfriend. DC hoping for another Harley.
I, really, really dislike Nightwing (or any other Batfam) fighting members of some sort of "Joker-family" - they done way too many Luthors for the Supers, too. Keeps the the spin-off heroes less distinctive and fighting baddies than can only be subordinate. Keeps those heroes subordinate that way, instead of letting them develop their own villains and attain a more equal view from fans. Keeps them off the top tier. Dick managed it once, but they drug him back to subordinate status and have kept him there more-or-less since. But everyone's living in Batman's world these days. Just heard about a lot more Bat-theme in Legion of Superheroes.
[QUOTE=dietrich;5083099]curious how exactly was he treated badly?
I don't believe that they didn't care or know how to use the character. The same people gave us gems like Caped Crusaders. I know they planned a 3rd Titans movie set just after Star arrived on Earth so focused on Dick's time as Robin.
Shame since that would have meant the shared Universe would have a movie for all the key stages in his history aside from Grayson. Celebrating his successes and his most successful identities
The movie we never got [Robin]- The OG Robin founding member of Teen Titans
Judas contract - The NTT Nightwing TT
Bad Blood - DickBATS
Hush - Nightwing solo Hero and son of Bruce wayne [this movie gave us more of Bruce and Dick interacting like father and son. It reflected their closeness.
I think the people behind the movies know the character well. They cared enough to come up with a plan on how to cram 80 years of comics history into approx 15 hrs [ Total runtime of all the batverse and TT focused movies set in the shared universe] while highlighting some of what makes him such an enduring character.
Alfred, Bruce and Dick as a family. THE Batfamily - pretty much conveyed in the way they interact.
Even his patience, encouragement, frustration and positive influence on Damian - Son of batman sparring scene and TT v JL Damian joining the TT
His maturity, heroic nature, sense of humour, his ability to easily handle Damian without ever getting down to his level, The only Robin who has never seriously thrown hands with a 10 year old - Son of batman where Dick easily takes down Damian and ties him up in a comedic fashion. Restraining him instead of fighting him.
A true Hero. Dick is the only batcharacter who has spent pretty much all his life as a hero on the field [He started at age 8 and is now an adult, Bruce spent years training becoming batman as a young man] - JLD: AW - Dick literally gives up his life saving Damian
Dick as the other head of the batfamily - Bad blood. Bruce goes missing Dick steps up and rallies everyone together.
Even the fact that Bruce is often cruel, uncaring and a D bag to Dick is conveyed in the scene where Dick is pinned to the wall and Bruce rather than going to free him hugs Damian.
The animation team treated him well especially when you consider the limitations {total runtime of all the movies as mentioned prior]
And the Fact that he was a lead in just 2 of the movies.
We got Dick bats, RobinDick, Dick and Deathstroke long running feud, Nightwing, his relationship with Starfire etc to say they didn't know what to with him must be a joke or sarcasm because they clearly did a lot.
Curious what would you have done with him?[/QUOTE]
I think a lot of people were frustrated with those films because Dick jobs in almost every one of them. Even to Damian when they spar, which was absolutely ridiculous. I have no complaints about his personality in these films but they really downplayed his skills to make other characters look better, whether it be Bruce or Damian or some random bad guy. It became a running gag; how is Nightwing going to break his arm in this movie?
I didn't even get the Dick and Damian bonding that I hoped I'd see in these movies, not even the one where they "adapted" (and I use that word lightly) Grant Morrison's Batman and Robin run. It wasn't a celebration of Batman coming full circle like the comics were, it was to show that Bruce is the ultimate hero by having Dick tell him he's just the bestest ever after Bruce takes him down while under mind control. Ok then.
Damian calling Dick his brother in JL:AW felt really unearned, because at no point did I get the impression that Damian moved beyond tolerating him, which is a vast difference to their relationship in the comics.
Hush had Bruce doubt that Dick could take down a small ring of thugs by himself and offer to rush in and help, had him job yet again to Scarecrow, and had him fall flat on his face while practicing....I get it was supposed to be a comedic moment, but these movies love making him look incompetent to service a joke.
The only thing Grayson-centric that I really enjoyed in these films was Dick's relationship with Kory. His relationships with Bruce and Damian largely left me disappointed, if I am honest. Dick's been a hero all his life. Show us he has the skillset to match, because he does. I don't expect him to win every fight but yeesh these movies made me roll my eyes.
[QUOTE=Tzigone;5083123]Haven't read her, but I understand her to be the Joker's new girlfriend. DC hoping for another Harley.
I, really, really dislike Nightwing (or any other Batfam) fighting members of some sort of "Joker-family" - they done way too many Luthors for the Supers, too. Keeps the the spin-off heroes less distinctive and fighting baddies than can only be subordinate. Keeps those heroes subordinate that way, instead of letting them develop their own villains and attain a more equal view from fans. Keeps them off the top tier. Dick managed it once, but they drug him back to subordinate status and have kept him there more-or-less since. But everyone's living in Batman's world these days. Just heard about a lot more Bat-theme in Legion of Superheroes.[/QUOTE]
Well that sounds lame, i guest that i'm not missing much ignoring the current Batman title. I don't remember any sort of Luthor family, beyond his sister thougth and she pretty much dissapeared after Darkseid Wars and that was the only time she was an enemy. There was also his niece who appeared in Superboy's solo with Johns and then Lemire, but she was a supporting characther not an enemy. Unless there is something happening in current Superman titles that i'm not aware of (still reading the second trade of both series by Bendis).
[QUOTE=TheCape;5083139]Well that sounds lame, i guest that i'm not missing much ignoring the current Batman title. I don't remember any sort of Luthor family, beyond his sister thougth and she pretty much dissapeared after Darkseid Wars and that was the only time she was an enemy. There was also his niece who appeared in Superboy's solo with Johns and then Lemire, but she was a supporting characther not an enemy. Unless there is something happening in current Superman titles that i'm not aware of (still reading the second trade of both series by Bendis).[/QUOTE]
She may not have been an enemy, but I definitely found it a rework "Lex and Clark were friends in their youth" (plus, he'd already been given Clark's powers, Clark's hometown, and Clark's parents - so much less distinctive than he was before) There was Nasthalthia Luthor who used to cause trouble for Supergirl back in pre-COIE. And I'm told another little Luthor showed up in the last Super Sons - I didn't read that series, because my sister told me it wasn't good. I did read the earlier ones.
Punchline may turn out to be the next big thing - most characters don't succeed, but she's associated with the Joker, and that helps. I freaking hate Batman Who Laughs, but he's extremely popular. And if they think it can help with another success, they will absolutely make her curbstomp Nightwing.
[QUOTE=Tzigone;5083147]She may not have been an enemy, but I definitely found it a rework "Lex and Clark were friends in their youth" (plus, he'd already been given Clark's powers, Clark's hometown, and Clark's parents - so much less distinctive than he was before) There was Nasthalthia Luthor who used to cause trouble for Supergirl back in pre-COIE. And I'm told another little Luthor showed up in the last Super Sons - I didn't read that series, because my sister told me it wasn't good. I did read the earlier ones.
Punchline may turn out to be the next big thing - most characters don't succeed, but she's associated with the Joker, and that helps. I freaking hate Batman Who Laughs, but he's extremely popular. And if they think it can help with another success, they will absolutely make her curbstomp Nightwing.[/QUOTE]
Yep. Right now they're building her up, so Batgirl, Batman, and others have jobbed to her already and the train ain't slowing down until Joker War is over. Skill doesn't really factor in (if indeed it ever does, really) because ultimately what matters most is what the writers need from the character. In this case, it's the Batfamily running with their tails between their legs until they aren't and gather strength for a comeback, and for Punchline to have some sticking power with all the hard work they put into designing and marketing her.
So we are getting that scene in King's Batman where Thomas beat all batfamily after being beaten first, but now Nightwing can join the fun...awesome :p
[QUOTE=Tzigone;5083147]She may not have been an enemy, but I definitely found it a rework "Lex and Clark were friends in their youth" (plus, he'd already been given Clark's powers, Clark's hometown, and Clark's parents - so much less distinctive than he was before) There was Nasthalthia Luthor who used to cause trouble for Supergirl back in pre-COIE. And I'm told another little Luthor showed up in the last Super Sons - I didn't read that series, because my sister told me it wasn't good. I did read the earlier ones.
Punchline may turn out to be the next big thing - most characters don't succeed, but she's associated with the Joker, and that helps. I freaking hate Batman Who Laughs, but he's extremely popular. And if they think it can help with another success, they will absolutely make her curbstomp Nightwing.[/QUOTE]
yeah but he wasnt a real luthor he was just an alien from another universe who thought the villians were cool heck we had a joker kid who actually was the good guy.
and as for punchline, she beat barbra and harley, she can worf all the bat kids.
But Dick is different. Shouldn't he win against Punchline?
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5083291]But Dick is different. Shouldn't he win against Punchline?[/QUOTE]
Well, I think he should. But I don't think DC is going to agree with me.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5083291]But Dick is different. Shouldn't he win against Punchline?[/QUOTE]
Yes, so should have Batgirl and Harley and Batman. But skill level doesn't really matter when they're trying to introduce a new baddie.
Also, she's powered by the ClownForce, which we all know is not only a multiversal threat but easily surpasses the SpeedForce in terms of raw wankery.
[QUOTE=Wingin' It;5083335]Yes, so should have Batgirl and Harley and Batman. But skill level doesn't really matter when they're trying to introduce a new baddie.
Also, she's powered by the ClownForce, which we all know is not only a multiversal threat but easily surpasses the SpeedForce in terms of raw wankery.[/QUOTE]
harleys not a fighter, she fights with a mallet or a gun, between punchline and her it was a fair fight. the bat kids on the other hand...i think if writers want to make her a vital character have her go up against the kids that actually wont hold back in a brutal fight to show her why gotham is unforgiving and if she wants in this life why she shoudn't go up against some one like jason, cass or damian and she stick to the kids who would play with her.
[QUOTE=redmax99;5083422]harleys not a fighter, she fights with a mallet or a gun, between punchline and her it was a fair fight. the bat kids on the other hand...i think if writers want to make her a vital character have her go up against the kids that actually wont hold back in a brutal fight to show her why gotham is unforgiving and if she wants in this life why she shoudn't go up against some one like jason, cass or damian and she stick to the kids who would play with her.[/QUOTE]
Harley is absolutely a fighter, she's a martial artist and gymnast, plus with Ivy's enhancements she's a borderline metahuman at this point.
So long as a character isn't fighting lethally (like Jason, Cass and Damian no longer do), they are by definition "holding back."
@ Wingin it
Jobbing. I know some fans like super bad ass characters and no one likes seeing a character they like lose in a fight they should win. Dick never felt like an incompetent hero or an unskilled fighter to me in the movies.
The sparring scene to me was Damian catching a distracted Dick off guard in a sparring session as a they talked. It can happen especially when one is clearly putting in more effort and really trying like Damian was through out the scene. Dick's moves seemed effortless and smooth up that point.
I didn't see it as jobbing nor did I ever get anything to indicate that Damian's skills were anywhere near Dicks.
I wasn't expecting to win against Bruce and Bruce rushing out to help him in Hush I interpreted as Worry.
Morrison's batman and Robin, Bruce's return, the mission to rescue him and Batman Inc in under 90 mins
Damian and Dick's gradual bonding adapting what took years in the comics to develop organically It's never going to be the same as the source but I feel it was well done.
They are loose adaptations. Storylines 'based on' the comics.
Damian still acts like he tolerates Dick even to this day in the comics only letting his real feeling come through when Dick is either in a coma, when he fears he's about to lose him, when he's overcome with emotion extreme happiness when Dick return's from Spyral, Panicked like he was in Nightwing or about to die like in Batman and Robin. That's when the mask slips.
The TT movies they felt like brothers to me. Even in Batman Badblood they felt like brothers though not as much as they did in the TT movies.
As some one who doesn't really care about feats and power scaling I didn't have a problem with how his skills where portrayed. I don't even recall a couple of the examples you gave.
I do recall when it hit me that the verse was doing key stages in his history and being really happy because now I can show my non comic reading friends why I talk about him so much and prove that he's more than Robin and or adult Robin from the live action movies [the number of arguments, explanations and correcting of facts talks I've had since i got into comics]
Nothing is prefect and every movie has flaws but I don't think that
Didn't know what to do with Dick's character.
Not Caring about the character
Treating him badly
are true.
Fighting skills not being accurately reflected sure though not imo
[QUOTE=Wingin' It;5083474]Harley is absolutely a fighter, she's a martial artist and gymnast, plus with Ivy's enhancements she's a borderline metahuman at this point.
So long as a character isn't fighting lethally (like Jason, Cass and Damian no longer do), they are by definition "holding back."[/QUOTE]
what i meant when wont hold back let jason,cass and damian beat her, with an inch of her life. let them go loose on her i'll take cass out the scenario because she doesn't kill. look at this point i'll take anybody because they want me to believe a college girl with no fighting skill can take batgirl or any train fighter, because knives can only take you so far.
[QUOTE=dietrich;5083540]@ Wingin it
Jobbing. I know some fans like super bad ass characters and no one likes seeing a character they like lose in a fight they should win. Dick never felt like an incompetent hero or an unskilled fighter to me in the movies.
The sparring scene to me was Damian catching a distracted Dick off guard in a sparring session as a they talked. It can happen especially when one is clearly putting in more effort and really trying like Damian was through out the scene. Dick's moves seemed effortless and smooth up that point.
I didn't see it as jobbing nor did I ever get anything to indicate that Damian's skills were anywhere near Dicks.
I wasn't expecting to win against Bruce and Bruce rushing out to help him in Hush I interpreted as Worry.
Morrison's batman and Robin, Bruce's return, the mission to rescue him and Batman Inc in under 90 mins
Damian and Dick's gradual bonding adapting what took years in the comics to develop organically It's never going to be the same as the source but I feel it was well done.
They are loose adaptations. Storylines 'based on' the comics.
Damian still acts like he tolerates Dick even to this day in the comics only letting his real feeling come through when Dick is either in a coma, when he fears he's about to lose him, when he's overcome with emotion extreme happiness when Dick return's from Spyral, Panicked like he was in Nightwing or about to die like in Batman and Robin. That's when the mask slips.
The TT movies they felt like brothers to me. Even in Batman Badblood they felt like brothers though not as much as they did in the TT movies.
As some one who doesn't really care about feats and power scaling I didn't have a problem with how his skills where portrayed. I don't even recall a couple of the examples you gave.
I do recall when it hit me that the verse was doing key stages in his history and being really happy because now I can show my non comic reading friends why I talk about him so much and prove that he's more than Robin and or adult Robin from the live action movies [the number of arguments, explanations and correcting of facts talks I've had since i got into comics]
Nothing is prefect and every movie has flaws but I don't think that
Didn't know what to do with Dick's character.
Not Caring about the character
Treating him badly
are true.
Fighting skills not being accurately reflected sure though not imo[/QUOTE]
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. I respect your opinion, but it made me frustrated personally. However, I am glad you liked these movies and it ignited more of your passion for the character.
[center][U][B][I]Secret Origins[/I][/B] (1986) #50[/U]
The Evolution of...
[B][SIZE=3]Dick Grayson[/SIZE][/B]
[img]https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/0/40/1850901-dickrobinnight.png[/img]
[B]Art[/B]: [SIZE=3]George Perez[/SIZE][/center]
[QUOTE=Wingin' It;5083474]Harley is absolutely a fighter, she's a martial artist and gymnast, plus with Ivy's enhancements she's a borderline metahuman at this point.
So long as a character isn't fighting lethally (like Jason, Cass and Damian no longer do), they are by definition "holding back."[/QUOTE]
Harley has gymnastics and a self defense course or two and girl can’t take a punch.
But she slip past kyrptonians and Amazon’s and outmaneuver batman when a writer says so.
Detective Comics #1027 Variant Cover
[IMG]https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/3iYdb7AANK8ueXQAw7yRMc-1440-80.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;5085028]Harley has gymnastics and a self defense course or two and girl can’t take a punch.
But she slip past kyrptonians and Amazon’s and outmaneuver batman when a writer says so.[/QUOTE]
Harley and Catwoman just offpaneled Cheshire and Merlyn like they were nothing.
[QUOTE=Drako;5085887]Detective Comics #1027 Variant Cover
[IMG]https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/3iYdb7AANK8ueXQAw7yRMc-1440-80.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Holy shit I love this.
I dont think I've seen Bermejo draw Nightwing before.
I gotta say I prefer the more high tech versions of Nightwing's suit but Bermejo's talent just cannot be questioned, the guy is so fantastic at what he does!
So do we have any word yet on what'll be happening with Dick post-75? Any tweets from creators or whatever? I'm assuming any news will wait until that Fandome event but I don't really do social media, outside of occasionally checking facebook.
[QUOTE=redmax99;5083422]harleys not a fighter, she fights with a mallet or a gun, between punchline and her it was a fair fight. the bat kids on the other hand...i think if writers want to make her a vital character have her go up against the kids that actually wont hold back in a brutal fight to show her why gotham is unforgiving and if she wants in this life why she shoudn't go up against some one like jason, cass or damian and she stick to the kids who would play with her.[/QUOTE]
If Punchline goes against any of those Batkids you listed she will win. The character is right now being promoted. They are still in the look how awesome she is phase. They'll all take an L it's got nothing to do with their skill level more to do with establishing Punchline as a threat.
[QUOTE=Drako;5085887]Detective Comics #1027 Variant Cover
[IMG]https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/3iYdb7AANK8ueXQAw7yRMc-1440-80.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
What a beauty.