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The King/Seeley, Dixon, and Wolfman stories were all really delightful. The Devin Grayson story was fun, but the ending felt a bit too implausible - wish Dick had swung away to lend it a bit more credibility. Seeing Grayson as a mentor, with the King-style repetition of subverted advice, and the heartfelt twist at the end was so good, plus Janin and Cox were so beautiful on art again.
It's nice to see those legs again. I think I mentioned in a thread, not about Dick Grayson's sexy legs, but I brought it up anyway because I'm like that... that I don't mind if the old costume is back in canon if I can see those again.
Oh someone asked about spy Nightwing in costume, the Titans story shows that. It even feels very Grayson-like in the way the story is told, and Nightwing's attitude.
I enjoyed the stories told.
And seriously, I did a double take when I realized Tom Kind wrote Nightwing there. Such a different, and better, tone then about most of his Batman run was.
okay holy cow that Robin anniversary special was fantastic. Every Dick story was good. The Grayson one was absolutely incredible. Not the best story ever told, but boy howdy did it do well what grayson did will.
Also, I thought it was interesting that they showed Dick's progression towards agent 37 and then stopped there. Sure, with a character that has as much history as Dick, you're going to have to leave some stuff out (like his time as batman), but I think its worth noting that they didn't push masked hero of Bludhaven: Nightwing as his fully developed state. Interesting at least.
Man, I can't wait to read this. Probably gonna be a while, regretfully, but the special sounds excellent. And Dick seems to have gotten far better treatment than I was expecting.
You guys think for the first time there is going to be no Dick Grayson in the Harley animated series. Batgirl and Dick around age range . So it’s interesting to see. I guess she is in college.
What animated series?
Harley Quinn animated series
Just read the "Grayson" story in the Robin special and my did it open up old wounds.
Great story (true to the core of the character) fantastic art.
Serves as a painful reminder of what we (and DC) had.
Will give anything for a *Superboy Punch* and we get back to the Grayson era.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4897313]Harley Quinn animated series[/QUOTE]
Oh right, Batgirl is showing up there.
Man, I can't wait for that to hit blu-ray. I've watched so many clips online I've probably seen the whole damn show now, but the day the blu-ray is in stores I'm buying it. I'll even risk going out in public to get it on release day! :p
And who's to say Nightwing won't make a cameo at some point as well?
[QUOTE=Mr. White;4897316]Just read the "Grayson" story in the Robin special and my did it open up old wounds.
Great story (true to the core of the character) fantastic art.
Serves as a painful reminder of what we (and DC) had.
Will give anything for a *Superboy Punch* and we get back to the Grayson era.[/QUOTE]Tell me about it. Grayson is so awesome!
But here's the thing, we can have grayson as nightwing! Nightwing can take the best elements from Grayson. Dick can pass bludhaven to Cassandra like at the end of pre-new 52 where Cassandra made bludhaven her new home. Or to stephanie, tim or Kate and dick moves on or still live in bludhaven as a home to rest.
Now Nightwing would be free to have Grayson style adventures as nightwing.
Nightwing should have these 3 Grayson style elements.
1)globetrotting
2)espionage
3)regular team ups
You add those elements from grayson into nightwing and we'd have something special like Grayson again without losing nightwing.
Nightwing has the name and costume, but Grayson has the status quo and direction. Put them together and you've got YJ'O Nightwing!
[QUOTE=WonderNight;4897604]Tell me about it. Grayson is so awesome!
But here's the thing, we can have grayson as nightwing! Nightwing can take the best elements from Grayson. Dick can pass bludhaven to Cassandra like at the end of pre-new 52 where Cassandra made bludhaven her new home. Or to stephanie, tim or Kate and dick moves on or still live in bludhaven as a home to rest.
Now Nightwing would be free to have Grayson style adventures as nightwing.
Nightwing should have these 3 Grayson style elements.
1)globetrotting
2)espionage
3)regular team ups
You add those elements from grayson into nightwing and we'd have something special like Grayson again without losing nightwing.
Nightwing has the name and costume, but Grayson has the status quo and direction. Put them together and you've got YJ'O Nightwing![/QUOTE]
This sounds like a capital idea, save for the regular team-ups. I prefer my comic protagonists to live in their world with their own (non-hero) supporting cast. Just a personal preference.
That said I reckon so long as Dick as in the Nightwing suit he'll be associated (by DC mainly) with Batman/ Gotham/ Bludhaven.
Which is ironic because his graduation to Nightwing signified moving out of Batman's shadow.
While there have been great interactions/relashionships with Damian and Alfred (I'm aware he was killed off); I'd sacrifice those to have Dick stay far far [B]far[/B] away from anything Bat related.
I mean it technically is important to have some connections to Batfam. He was raised by Bruce. This is why I feel him going back to the Haley Circus make sense. He has the money and still can spy around. However, we don’t need to pass Bludhaven to anyone. Why not have it be Blüdhaven is safe city mostly. If Dick is somewhat Clarke and Bruce in a sense. Why not have Bludhaven be more like Metropolis.
Or at least a job that is possible. For example, stuntman or a PI
[QUOTE=Mr. White;4897640]This sounds like a capital idea, save for the regular team-ups. I prefer my comic protagonists to live in their world with their own (non-hero) supporting cast. Just a personal preference.
That said I reckon so long as Dick is in the Nightwing suit he'll be associated (by DC mainly) with Batman/ Gotham/ Bludhaven.
Which is ironic because his graduation to Nightwing signified moving out of Batman's shadow.
While there have been great interactions/relashionships with Damian and Alfred (I'm aware he was killed off); I'd sacrifice those to have Dick stay far far [B]far[/B] away from anything Bat related.[/QUOTE]Ok semi-regular team ups:cool:.
Yeah the problem with dick primarily being associated Batman/ Gotham/ Bludhaven is that it defeats the whole point of him becoming Nightwing in the first place.
Nightwing needs to be more than just another bat.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4897655]I mean it technically is important to have some connections to Batfam. He was raised by Bruce. This is why I feel him going back to the Haley Circus make sense. He has the money and still can spy around. However, we don’t need to pass Bludhaven to anyone. Why not have it be Blüdhaven is safe city mostly. If Dick is somewhat Clarke and Bruce in a sense. Why not have Bludhaven be more like Metropolis.
Or at least a job that is possible. For example, stuntman or a PI[/QUOTE]It's because Batman has a city (the most famous one) is one of the main reasons why Nightwing struggles. If the bat franchise are LA Lakers and batman is shaq having nightwing be a mini shaq makes him very redundant. So let him be Kobe! Play a different position so they both can shine.
When you have Batman in Gotham/ Nightwing in Bludhaven is pointless to DC.
Sorry. When I speak of Bludhaven someone said Bludhaven should be passed to Cassie Cain. I was saying no need just let it fade away. Dick going there from time to time for other things. Dick is mainly on the road or the circus. Haley Circus is a perfect for. One idea I have is this. Haley Circus works with smaller circuses around the world. So for a long time Haley and other circuses host large events in many countries. This way Dick can search around. The thing is how is Dick going to look around for crimes? Than again it’s not hard for him to research places and in the time.
Bruce is indisputably Dick’s mentor. And he rescued, and raised him.
He should always be a big part of Dick’s life. Many of us have had mentors... don’t we call them, have lunch, ask for advice?
But that don’t show up at our workplace.
Dick should stay tight with Bruce, but Nightwing should not rely on Batman. I’d love to see a close relationship between these brothers, but Nightwing should work his cases alone.
[QUOTE=bearman;4897882]Bruce is indisputably Dick’s mentor. And he rescued, and raised him.
He should always be a big part of Dick’s life. Many of us have had mentors... don’t we call them, have lunch, ask for advice?
But that don’t show up at our workplace.
Dick should stay tight with Bruce, but Nightwing should not rely on Batman. I’d love to see a close relationship between these brothers, but Nightwing should work his cases alone.[/QUOTE]
I agree. I 100% agree. This is why I kind of time issue with him having romantic relationships with Babs. Ot kind of ties him more to Bruce’s side. Anyone the most important thing is when makes a global traveling hero. Where does he get the money? A PI or Circus? Or maybe working as a stuntman?
If any of you were the editor for Nightwing would you limit how often he appeara in Batman events? I wouldn’t mind if he and Bruce would hanging out or something simple. It’s just that they often use Dick since he is more skilled.
We know that DC likes to interrupt on Dick's life, but has there ever been a character development regression? Specifically character development, not outside influence like someone shooting him or bombing his city
Anti New 52 Dick or Grayson says he's been depicted as less smart, boxed into The Charming One or The Sexy One, but is there anything before that?
[QUOTE=bearman;4897882]Bruce is indisputably Dick’s mentor. And he rescued, and raised him.
He should always be a big part of Dick’s life. Many of us have had mentors... don’t we call them, have lunch, ask for advice?
But that don’t show up at our workplace.
Dick should stay tight with Bruce, but Nightwing should not rely on Batman. I’d love to see a close relationship between these brothers, but Nightwing should work his cases alone.[/QUOTE]
You are a 110% correct...[B]factually[/B].
That said in the context we're discussing and in relation to the character (Batman) involved; there is no way his involvement would not overshadow and/or interrupt Grayson's progress/ development/ direction/ book.
Batman is DC's cash cow due to his popularity. Fact.
His presence in comics is always hyped up for sales. It's what it is. I mean the mere existence of a Bat Family of 20+ characters lends truth to this...
I mean at one point there were debates as to Black Canary being classified as a BatFam character. Like why?? Yes I know BoP is/was run by a former Batgirl but still... Stop it!
(Sorry mini-rant over)
I care way too much about Grayson to have Batman show up. Even the Grayson series I didn't like the fact that he was "undercover for Batman" but I lived with it. Mainly because his presence was limited albeit, still found it an interuption. Don't get me wrong I do like Bats (though if I'm honest earlier renditions more than the "modern" take) but he is an interuption.
This is why I say he should stay far away from them. I like the interactions with some of the BatFam but because a connection to one is a connection to Bats himself...I'd rather there isn't one. Or at least limit it to a page every 5-7 issues and only apearing on a screen to ask about how the family is doing...
Grayson was a good series and started finding (arguably "found") its feet. It had the potential to carve a niche in the spy sector of the DCU but of course...DC dropped the ball.
^^ Just my take of course.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4897955]I agree. I 100% agree. This is why I kind of time issue with him having romantic relationships with Babs. Ot kind of ties him more to Bruce’s side. Anyone the most important thing is when makes a global traveling hero. [B]Where does he get the money?[/B] A PI or Circus? Or maybe working as a stuntman?
[B]His working for Spyral was good. I mean it's like asking where Bond gets his money.
That said I do get you and because of Bendis and Event Leviathan (another muck up in my view), a job will be necessary.
The only issue is a job often requires you to stay in one place. [/B]
If any of you were the editor for Nightwing would you limit how often he appeara in Batman events? I wouldn’t mind if he and Bruce would hanging out or something simple. It’s just that they often use Dick since he is more skilled.[/QUOTE]
[B]"Yes. Yes. A Hundred Times Yes."
Funnily enough I would be more ok with Bruce showing up now and again. Just not [U]Batman[/U].
Dick's interaction with the BatFam in their civvies is tolerable.[/B]
I said this before about Titans, but same is true for Batman. When they are cultivating readers to want Dick nowhere near Batman they are obviously doing something very wrong. And it’s not like like readers are wrong to want that, thats just a testament to how destructive the situation they created is. Somthing is very wrong when the character’s relationship to franchises like Batman and Titans are fairly being viewed as destructive to character by fans.
If you guys were the editor of Nightwing are there any rules? Will you limited him doing crossovers with Batman ? I don’t mind Batman showing up. What will you reboot or keep cannon?
Happy birthday dick grayson
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4898581]If you guys were the editor of Nightwing are there any rules? Will you limited him doing crossovers with Batman ? I don’t mind Batman showing up. What will you reboot or keep cannon?[/QUOTE]
It all stays canon. Some stuff (like Ric) would just never be mentioned ever again. But I'm not interested in doing a story all about how other stories suddenly didn't happen. That just reminds everyone how awful those stories were, and those are issues that could be dedicated to telling good stories instead of telling us how to pretend the bad ones never existed. Just ignore the stuff you don't want to deal with, don't shine a light on it while you tell readers to do what they're already going to do (ignore the bad stories). Retcons and reboots are a horrible idea 99.99% of the time, and it's not at all necessary for Dick.
As for rules?
Dick gets treated as a solo character first, Bat adjunct second, Bat sidekick never. His book does not get derailed for someone else's title or story. A crossover is fine, if there's a good reason for Dick to be involved, but sh*t like what King pulled? Never again.
Nightwing no longer is forced to be Bat-lite. He gets developed into his own kind of character and hero, no longer forced to follow Bruce's blueprint. And whatever he gets developed into better be unique and different and offer something other DC books don't.
He gets his emblem. I love the chevron as much as the next guy, but he needs a logo that can be sold on merchandise so the bird emblem that has been used in some larger media stuff (such as on Young Justice) gets brought in as a permanent part of his visual.
Past that? It'd largely be up to the creators to develop Nightwing. I have my own ideas of course, but as a hypothetical editor it's not my job to write the stories, just to help the creators tell their's in the best ways possible.
If I'm being honest, I'd probably try to push the Power Girl-Nightwing ship I'm such a fan of, but getting Dick onto solid ground he can call his own, and away from being nothing more than a sidekick for Batman, comes first.
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;4898622]Happy birthday dick grayson[/QUOTE]
Doesn’t he have multiple birthdays technically?
Also what’s woth the PG and Nightwing relationship? When did they get pair up?
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4898641]
Also what’s woth the PG and Nightwing relationship? When did they get pair up?[/QUOTE]
They never have. They've only actually interacted a handful of times (and flirted a bit during those interactions but nothing more serious than that).
I got on this whole thing because I don't want Dick with Babs *or* Kori. I don't think those dynamics and relationships work anymore. I'd rather see all three move forward with their lives and I don't think, from the business or creative sides of things, either relationship benefits those involved either.
So I figure it's time for a new ship. And while thinking of women who would fit the role, who would both be a benefit to Dick and benefit from being with him, Power Girl's name ended up at the top of my list. I have a ton of reasons, and have written long posts going over them a bunch of times so I won't bore everyone with them yet again. You can find my little essays in the old relationship and appreciation threads, or if you're really curious and actually care about my reasoning I can PM you.
All that said, there isn't much on the page to support it. They have only hung out a few times, after all. But I maintain that this would be good for both Dick and Karen Starr and even if they haven't hung out much in the past, everything has to start somewhere.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4898581]If you guys were the editor of Nightwing are there any rules? Will you limited him doing crossovers with Batman ? I don’t mind Batman showing up. What will you reboot or keep cannon?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't limit the crossovers, I like if you have some interaction between the different Batman characters. Back in the Dixon Era you had the charcters frequently show up in each others books, and that was imo the best era for the Batfamily.
The problem is, that the cross overs were often really poorly done past year. You have often the feeling that they put jut all the character in the event to have the complete set, but don't really have something to do for most of them.
Then the characters are often terribly written and what happens is often not in line with what happens in their own book, and sometimes they are just used to prop up the villain or another Batfamily member.
As a fan of Jason Todd I have now reached a point where I'm usually relieved if he is not in a cross over, and that shouldn't be the case (with Dick is is not that bad since there is imo roughly a 50% chance that he is treated decent in a cross over).
Okay. How about how often a crossover should happen? Another question is how should Bruce relationships with Dick be? For the most part Dick is the character everyone is cool with. Jason cares and doesn’t mind Dick.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4898722]Okay. How about how often a crossover should happen? Another question is how should Bruce relationships with Dick be? For the most part, Dick is the character everyone is cool with. Jason cares and doesn’t mind Dick.[/QUOTE]
Once a year is fine.
They've pretty much been fine these past years. Unless Bruce is being sulky they're respectful and helpful... Before someone asks, I [I]always[/I] discount Ric arc... Even when he's sulky these days he doesn't punch anymore, just "hmm". That's acceptable for an introvert. That's normal.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4898722]Okay. How about how often a crossover should happen? Another question is how should Bruce relationships with Dick be? For the most part Dick is the character everyone is cool with. Jason cares and doesn’t mind Dick.[/QUOTE]
A full crossover, where the plots intersect, once every 18-24 months is enough, since it usually takes six issues for a single story these days. A simple guest cameo where someone stops by to visit for a single issue and doesn't derail the story? As much as makes sense really, as long as it's not every issue.
I'd prefer for Dick and Bruce to be on relatively good terms. I think they likely disagree on plenty, and Dick could be used to voice the same concerns and counter-arguments Superman is sometimes used for, but I'd like to see Bruce and Dick move beyond their troubled past and, for the most part, get along relatively well. I want to see Dick call Bruce out on his bullsh*t, but I don't want to see them throwing punches at each other either.
[QUOTE=Ascended;4898628]It all stays canon. Some stuff (like Ric) would just never be mentioned ever again. But I'm not interested in doing a story all about how other stories suddenly didn't happen. That just reminds everyone how awful those stories were, and those are issues that could be dedicated to telling good stories instead of telling us how to pretend the bad ones never existed. Just ignore the stuff you don't want to deal with, don't shine a light on it while you tell readers to do what they're already going to do (ignore the bad stories). Retcons and reboots are a horrible idea 99.99% of the time, and it's not at all necessary for Dick.
As for rules?
Dick gets treated as a solo character first, Bat adjunct second, Bat sidekick never. His book does not get derailed for someone else's title or story. A crossover is fine, if there's a good reason for Dick to be involved, but sh*t like what King pulled? Never again.
Nightwing no longer is forced to be Bat-lite. He gets developed into his own kind of character and hero, no longer forced to follow Bruce's blueprint. And whatever he gets developed into better be unique and different and offer something other DC books don't.
He gets his emblem. I love the chevron as much as the next guy, but he needs a logo that can be sold on merchandise so the bird emblem that has been used in some larger media stuff (such as on Young Justice) gets brought in as a permanent part of his visual.
Past that? It'd largely be up to the creators to develop Nightwing. I have my own ideas of course, but as a hypothetical editor it's not my job to write the stories, just to help the creators tell their's in the best ways possible.
If I'm being honest, I'd probably try to push the Power Girl-Nightwing ship I'm such a fan of, but getting Dick onto solid ground he can call his own, and away from being nothing more than a sidekick for Batman, comes first.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much agree with this. Well like 99.99%.
Crossovers? Never.
General premise? Graysonesque. Meaning globetrotting adventures, though not entirely of what the "Core" premise will be.
Relationship? Either a civilian or an agent of something. Think a Sasha Bordeaux. Anyway, not a cape.
Homebase? Something similar to Metropolis. Essentially somewhere bright.
Guest stars? 1 every 12-15 issues.
Now skills. Often Dc has downplayed his abilities many times. What skills have they downplayed or just forgot about? What are his skills? What are his strengths and weakness?
[QUOTE=Ascended;4898824]A full crossover, where the plots intersect, once every 18-24 months is enough, since it usually takes six issues for a single story these days. A simple guest cameo where someone stops by to visit for a single issue and doesn't derail the story? As much as makes sense really, as long as it's not every issue.[/QUOTE]Yeah I think that's what I would go for, too.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4899031]Now skills. Often Dc has downplayed his abilities many times. What skills have they downplayed or just forgot about? What are his skills? What are his strengths and weakness?[/QUOTE]I his stand out skill are acrobatics and leader ship (which is of course not that usable in a solo book), what they to often downplay are his detective skills and his ability to plan things.
Weakness is hard to say Batfamily members are usually pretty good at everything, based on older comics I would claim that he is really bad at coping with failures.
What they should ditch is this "improvising Swashbuckler" stuff (like in the Agent 37 Story from the Robin 80th Anniversary Book), thats imo as annoying as Tim taking down villains by pushing buttons and makes no sense when at the same time other Batfamily members are said to be to reckless.
I definitely think "women" are a weakness for Dick. Not that he'd let a girl escape justice just because she bats her eyelashes at him or anything, but he definitely lowers his guard and lets himself get pulled into the plight of the bad girls.
He also lets himself get swept up easily in the emotion of the moment. How many times have we seen him go to have a serious talk with Kori and they just end up in bed? He sort of unknowingly misleads people at times because he stops thinking about "later" and just focuses on "right now."
He definitely struggles with guilt sometimes. We tend to think of Dick as the happy and well adjusted person in the Cave, but that dude can brood and angst with the best of them when he wants to.
I dunno if I'd call it a "weakness," but Dick has developed some serious wanderlust over the years too. Guy moves around quite a bit, constantly changes jobs, etc. I know this is less the intentional development of his character and more a result of DC yanking him around, but intentional or not the end result is the same.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4899031]Now skills. Often Dc has downplayed his abilities many times. What skills have they downplayed or just forgot about? What are his skills? What are his strengths and weakness?[/QUOTE]
Since the Robins have been getting together more and more... it's used to be only Tim and Dick, and later Damian, but now they have Jason and all the extended family... writers, and DC have been boxing them, emphasizing their signature personality trait or ability, the difference they have to each other, for easy marketing.
So ignoring the other similar ability he has with the rest of the family, Dick is the sexy, charming, emotion-based one. The heart, jumping without a net, the improviser, and the funny one.
So against Tim and Babs, his intelligence or detective skills are downplayed
Against Bruce and Babs, it's his seriousness, maturity, and fighting skills.
Bruce is obvious, he's the serious mentor and star character... but writers really don't like depicting Barbara as weaker, probably because of the history of female character treatment in media, so when someone's gonna take the fall of incompetency when both of them around, it's usually Dick.
Against Damian and Jason, it's anger and willingness towards violence. This one's not that bad, because Dick's default personality is nice, but he's not above violence and threats. This is more often a fandom problem, that Dick becomes to The Nice and Soft Big Bro.
Speaking of nice... when Starfire is written to be this innocent all-loving alien girl, Dick is the violent one. Otherwise, when Starfire's written as a warrior princess, Dick is the restrainer.
Oh. His status as The Nice One, as in, the one who listens, sometimes applies to the villains as well. This can make him comes off as naive. The Pure Hearted One.
The one thing they, as far as I know, never take is his leadership ability. Even when Bruce's around, they have such a different approach to team leadership that they don't undermine each other. Bruce is the colder, businesslike one, ordering people around. Dick knows and respects the team, so the team follows him willingly.
His greatest strength is definitely his people skills, whether as a charmer, performer, leader, brother, friend, neighbor, savior or listener.
His greatest weakness is taking burdens on his own. Self-blame. Since he likes to save or take care of others, he can neglect himself in the process, whether it's wounds, hygiene, or rest, and takes it really hard when he fails.
Others have listed Dick's strengths. One of his weaknesses was getting along with Jason. Pre-New52, he and Jason weren't close. Especially compared to Dick with Tim and Damian. Even after coming back to life, pre or post New52, the two were never that close (though they had some good moments in the first Rebirth annual of Red Hood).
Best I can say, before the "ric" thing, the two didn't hate one another and could work together. But were not exactly close.
[QUOTE=Jackalope89;4899372]Others have listed Dick's strengths. One of his weaknesses was getting along with Jason. Pre-New52, he and Jason weren't close. Especially compared to Dick with Tim and Damian. Even after coming back to life, pre or post New52, the two were never that close (though they had some good moments in the first Rebirth annual of Red Hood).
Best I can say, before the "ric" thing, the two didn't hate one another and could work together. But were not exactly close.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't call them "brothers," but Dick cared about Jason pre-New 52. He took his death hard when he found out about it in the New Teen Titans.
Dicks flaws are clear for me.
He has a bad, really mean streak when he's angered. He doesn't hold his mouth, and he can be really, really enraged. He can say really hurting stuff too, out or rage.
He's also too predisposed to decide for others what's best. And what's right and what's wrong. This applies for everyone, even his friends and team mates. He knows better, until he realizes he may have messed up.
He has prejudices and he's too quick to judge people.
He sometimes is too self-righteous, which is tied to the previous flaw.
And he can become too obtuse about certain stuff. It is how he thinks it is, and not any other way. I think he doesn't deal well with change either, but that may be just my bias.
I like Dick, just in case. He can be charming, and good and kind. But I've read him being an as××ole too, not too rarely.
Being self-sacrifying or taking burdens out of guilt aren't really much of a flaw. That pictures him under a good light, as much as it may hurt him. For a hero, I mean.
Edit: ok, so weaknesses. Yeah, self-blame and self-sacrifying oneself can be a weakness for a hero. Villains can even take advantadge of it, as it has happened in the comics, actually. Being vanilla human and jumping to help someone without many corncerns or thinking too much about it can be a weakness too. And that too has played against him before, I think.
[QUOTE=Jackalope89;4899372]Others have listed Dick's strengths. One of his weaknesses was getting along with Jason. Pre-New52, he and Jason weren't close. Especially compared to Dick with Tim and Damian. Even after coming back to life, pre or post New52, the two were never that close (though they had some good moments in the first Rebirth annual of Red Hood).
Best I can say, before the "ric" thing, the two didn't hate one another and could work together. But were not exactly close.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zaresh;4899635]Dicks flaws are clear for me.
He has a bad, really mean streak when he's angered. He doesn't hold his mouth, and he can be really, really enraged. He can say really hurting stuff too, out or rage.
He's also too predisposed to decide for others what's best. And what's right and what's wrong. This applies for everyone, even his friends and team mates. He knows better, until he realizes he may have messed up.
He has prejudices and he's too quick to judge people.
He sometimes is too self-righteous, which is tied to the previous flaw.
And he can become too obtuse about certain stuff. It is how he thinks it is, and not any other way. I think he doesn't deal well with change either, but that may be just my bias.
I like Dick, just in case. He can be charming, and good and kind. But I've read him being an as××ole too, not too rarely.
Being self-sacrifying or taking burdens out of guilt aren't really much of a flaw. That pictures him under a good light, as much as it may hurt him. For a hero, I mean.[/QUOTE]
So everybody was talking about weaknesses and you go with flaws. Jason fans always hamering the same discourse "he has a mean streak" "he has a temper" "he is not close to Jason". Talking about assholes, it wasn't Dick the one that stood up in front of a burning city and laughed, of all Robins the only one that has ever been happy other are dead is Jason.
What are you even doing in this anyway thread?