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[QUOTE=WonderNight;4793487]Ah Remember when Dick was the face of DC's espionage corner and we had Grayson, Midnighter and Suicide Squad together? It was like dick was the head of his own family of books for a second.
Good times.[/QUOTE]
He never interacted with the Suicide squad, the corner no longer exist
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;4793510]He never interacted with the Suicide squad, the corner no longer exist[/QUOTE]whatever. His writer tim seeley was put on the book at the same time he was writing Grayson to connect them just like Grayson and Midnighter where connected.
That corner still very much exist, Leviathan and Leviathan: checkmate anyone. And damn sure exist more then anything in bludhaven.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;4793588]whatever. His writer tim seeley was put on the book at the same time he was writing Grayson to connect them just like Grayson and Midnighter where connected.
That corner still very much exist, Leviathan and Leviathan: checkmate anyone. And damn sure exist more then anything in bludhaven.[/QUOTE]
Their so irrelevant
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;4793724]Their so irrelevant[/QUOTE]
More so than the streets of Bludhaven will ever be.
Gotham reminds me. Can we make Bludhaven interesting? If this is his home we got to have Dick’s city be cool.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4793921]Gotham reminds me. Can we make Bludhaven interesting? If this is his home we got to have Dick’s city be cool.[/QUOTE]
Of course not, and if by accident it gets interesting, it will be passed to the next family member they are trying to build up at the time
[QUOTE=Rakiduam;4793929]Of course not, and if by accident it gets interesting, it will be passed to the next family member they are trying to build up at the time[/QUOTE]
LoL, so true...
So I’m thinking joker war will be where dick Grayson makes his official return,joker being mentioned in the night wing solicits just adds things up.
That does seem to be the case. Everything is starting to aim towards each other and Dick's return is starting to feel more imminent.
But solicits have tricked me before. So I'll wait until Nightwing is not only on the cover of Nightwing, but in the pages too. Until that issue hits the stands, I have no trust in DC.
And when that issue does finally hit, I'll only trust DC to f**k it up again anyway. Gonna take a long time and a lot of quality effort before I have any faith in these people when it comes to Nightwing.
Fortunately I have larger media, and those guys seem to love Dick.
:p
Goodbye Ric. Welcome back Dick Grayson
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO4xoS4UEAE3WUs?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO4xoS3UcAElOmD?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]
[url]https://twitter.com/JarrulusX[/url]
This is gorgeous
Nightwing 71 by Travis Moore
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO1ZmclVUAA_2sE?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG]
[QUOTE=CPSparkles;4795737]This is gorgeous
Nightwing 71 by Travis Moore
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO1ZmclVUAA_2sE?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Imagine how tired we are
Variant covers for Robin 80th Anniversary 100-Page Super Spectacular #1.
Dick has four covers. They chose Carrie over Jason for the 80's cover, weird.
1940s - Jim Lee (cover coming soon)
1950s - Totino Tedesco
1960s - Dustin Nguyen
1970s - Kaare Andrews
Source: [url]https://twitter.com/thedcnation/status/1220478575477805056[/url]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPACykNU0AAPGZR?format=jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPACyklVUAIlwh4?format=jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPACylbUYAE3zk5?format=jpg[/IMG]
He is also in the 2010s by Yasmine Putri
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPADOujUYAAnjLw?format=jpg[/IMG]
That last one shouldn't have been decade specific. Damian should've been the sole focus of the 2010s cover as his Robin tenure is 2009 to present.
Interesting that Dick has his classic costume on all the covers, no sign of the New 52 retcon costume... but on the last cover, Jason does have a retcon costume - he only ever wore the same one as Dick originally.
[QUOTE=Drako;4798348]Variant covers for Robin 80th Anniversary 100-Page Super Spectacular #1.
Dick has four covers. They chose Carrie over Jason for the 80's cover, weird.
1940s - Jim Lee (cover coming soon)
1950s - Totino Tedesco
1960s - Dustin Nguyen
1970s - Kaare Andrews
Source: [url]https://twitter.com/thedcnation/status/1220478575477805056[/url]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPACykNU0AAPGZR?format=jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPACyklVUAIlwh4?format=jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPACylbUYAE3zk5?format=jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Not weird. It's Frank Miller.
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4798412]Not weird. It's Frank Miller.[/QUOTE]
It was to be expected. I was counting with it, with having not Jason cover at all.
What surprised me was that we don't get a Damian-solo cover. A group cover, that's nice.
[QUOTE=Drako;4798358]He is also in the 2010s by Yasmine Putri
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPADOujUYAAnjLw?format=jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
A funny thing I noticed. The 6 Robins are kind of put in pairs.
You have Dick and Damian kind of linked by the grapple line to the left side of the page.
Then you have Tim and Steph one over the other.
And Jason and Carrie one next to the other in the right of the picture.
And then you have Carrie and Stephanie lining diagonally one next to the other with Tim and Jason lining one next to the other.
All of this while they fight overlaying the R for Robin in the background.
It's a pretty smart layout. Damn, I love Putri's work.
Everyone has their own weapon too, that's a nice touch. Dick has nothing but his grapple line, as he relies on acrobatics as Robin (he didn't gain his signature eskrima sticks until his third Nightwing costume). Jason has a lead pipe, Tim has his signature extending staff. Damian has a sword, Steph has a knuckleduster, and Carrie has a slingshot.
I just wish this cover wasn't assigned as a decade variant, since it means Damian didn't get his own. Would've been nice if this was the primary cover.
[QUOTE=Drako;4798348]Variant covers for Robin 80th Anniversary 100-Page Super Spectacular #1.
Dick has four covers. They chose Carrie over Jason for the 80's cover, weird.
1940s - Jim Lee (cover coming soon)
1950s - Totino Tedesco
1960s - Dustin Nguyen
1970s - Kaare Andrews
Source: [url]https://twitter.com/thedcnation/status/1220478575477805056[/url]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPACykNU0AAPGZR?format=jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPACyklVUAIlwh4?format=jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPACylbUYAE3zk5?format=jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Well most of the 80 years belongs to him and last Time DC had a party for RobinDick and co they gave the Cake and pressies to Harper.
All the covers are brilliant.
[QUOTE=CPSparkles;4795737]This is gorgeous
Nightwing 71 by Travis Moore
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO1ZmclVUAA_2sE?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG][/QUOTE]
This is amazing.
Glad that Dick's ugly New 52 Robin costume is nowhere on those covers. I completely understand people not liking Dick's classic Robin costume because it is so ridiculous by today's standards, but I really can't stand his New 52 one. It annoys me so much every time I have to look at it. It removed all the iconic elements out of the costume and it looks like an over-designed mess. Jason's New 52 Robin costume had more iconic elements with the exposed arms and yellow cape.
I'll never understand why they just didn't give his iconic Robin costume pants and boots. That is all it really needed to be vastly less ridiculous and you keep the classic red vest with the stitching and green sleeves. The Teen Titans cartoon did it easily nearly 20 years ago now.
Also Steph getting her own Robin cover is a mistake, especially over Jason. Not even Damian got his own cover. She sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the other 5 Robins as she never added anything to the identity or legacy. Carrie was the first female Robin and is part of an iconic story at least. I get her fans are obsessed with her being "counted" as one despite only being Robin for like 3 issues in a one off event that she wasn't even the focus of, but she really shouldn't be there in my opinion.
[QUOTE=Drako;4798348]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPACylbUYAE3zk5?format=jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
LoL the confidence.
[QUOTE=Badou;4798563]Also Steph getting her own Robin cover is a mistake, especially over Jason. Not even Damian got his own cover. She sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the other 5 Robins as she never added anything to the identity or legacy. Carrie was the first female Robin and is part of an iconic story at least. I get her fans are obsessed with her being "counted" as one despite only being Robin for like 3 issues in a one off event that she wasn't even the focus of, but she really shouldn't be there in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
Steph's cover is at Tim's expense, not Jason's. Jason was unlucky in that Carrie and he both date from the same decade. Carrie's the reason he lost out.
The covers look great.
I get using Carrie for the 80's cover. It's Miller, it's DKR, it's a little diversity, etc. Sucks for Jason but his tenure as Robin is remarkable only because he died; his star didn't truly rise until he was Red Hood.
But really, the Steph cover is pretty awful. She was Robin for what, five minutes? Did it even last an actual year? Should've been Tim. Again, Steph makes for slightly better representation and that sort of thing should always be a consideration in business, but still. Should've been Tim.
At the very least, Tim and Jason should have shared the covers with Carrie and Steph, I think.
And Damien should've had his own cover. The group shot is fantastic; that's the cover I want, but Damien really should've had his own.
Dick looks fantastic on all of his covers though. They really did right by him, and I'm glad they used his classic look instead of the new generic re-designs.
[QUOTE=Ascended;4799412]But really, the Steph cover is pretty awful. She was Robin for what, five minutes? Did it even last an actual year? [/QUOTE]Afaik 4 issues.
[QUOTE=Ascended;4799412]The covers look great.
I get using Carrie for the 80's cover. It's Miller, it's DKR, it's a little diversity, etc. Sucks for Jason but his tenure as Robin is remarkable only because he died; his star didn't truly rise until he was Red Hood.
But really, the Steph cover is pretty awful. She was Robin for what, five minutes? Did it even last an actual year? Should've been Tim. Again, Steph makes for slightly better representation and that sort of thing should always be a consideration in business, but still. Should've been Tim.
At the very least, Tim and Jason should have shared the covers with Carrie and Steph, I think.
And Damien should've had his own cover. The group shot is fantastic; that's the cover I want, but Damien really should've had his own.
Dick looks fantastic on all of his covers though. They really did right by him, and I'm glad they used his classic look instead of the new generic re-designs.[/QUOTE]
Stephanie was a very liked and important support cast for Tim, and she was also a Batgirl that people liked plenty. She's a girl, she's well liked: she gets a cover, even if she was Robin for like two minutes. It's a marketing choice, because a lot of people is going to want her cover. Jason, on the other hand, even if he has more fans (and I think he has), is not going to sell so well, probably.
Saying that Jason's only remarkable thing he did as Robin is dying is pretty unfair. I'm not saying this because I'm a big fan of him; but when you take into account his pre and post-crisis versions, he was the Robin in The Cult, he was the Robin that saved Superman and the trinity in one of the most famous Superman stories, he was the character which with Killer Croc and I think a bunch of other villains debuted with. His tenure was short and had the drama (for me) of being rebooted halfway in; but it's not just "he died in that not very good story about Batman failing and Joker wining that was decided by a poll".
But it's Miller. You want Miller in an 80's cover: who would you, if not? And because it's Miller, it's going to be Carrie. So, well, as I said, life is unfair and you have to learn to deal with it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Carrie is cool and she doesn't get the spotlight a lot. Let's have her.
Edit: putting two Robins in the same cover... I don't know, maybe some people would prefer just one alone. But I would buy one with both Carrie and Jason, or Tim and Steph, if I could.
While i don’t really care one way or the other about Steph getting a cover, but where is Duke then?
Also I don’t care how much one is a fan a Jason, his death was by far the most remarkable thing that happen during his tenure by a huge margin. Saving Superman isn’t even in the ball park. Come on now.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;4799665]While i don’t really care one way or the other about Steph getting a cover, but where is Duke then?
Also I don’t care how much one is a fan a Jason, his death was by far the most remarkable thing that happen during his tenure by a huge margin. Saving Superman isn’t even in the ball park. Come on now.[/QUOTE]
It may be the most remarkable. But it isn't the only remarkable thing about his Robin. That's what I was arguing. It's hard to deny it, when dying had impact for others characters for a decade. Even if the impact is of my dislike half the time because they blamed him and turned him sometimes into something he wasn't. But is wasn't the only remarkable thing (quoting Ascended: "his tenure as Robin is remarkable only because he died").
[QUOTE=Zaresh;4799692]It may be the most remarkable. But it isn't the only remarkable thing about his Robin. That's what I was arguing. It's hard to deny it, when dying had impact for others characters for a decade. Even if the impact is of my dislike half the time because they blamed him and turned him sometimes into something he wasn't.[/QUOTE]
But it is though. Nothing else comes even close to it, that’s what it is to be remarkable. Everything else that happen during his tenure is so under that bar that you can’t really call them remarkable then.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;4799699]But it is though. Nothing else comes even close to it, that’s what it is to be remarkable. Everything else that happen during his tenure is so under that bar that can’t seriously call them remarkable.[/QUOTE]
What does Damian go for him that's remarkable, outside his Batman and Robin with Dick?
Or Tim, outside some of his years in Robin? And the thing is, most people only remember his father's death and his Red Robin run.
Or Dick, outsiode being the first, the original, and a pretty good leader for the Titans and their stories? In forty-something years of history as Robin?
When you cut that close, then, every Robin has only one or maybe two things remarkable for them.
As I said, it's unfair, to said that the only remarkable thing for Jason is that, because it's not. He had more stuff in his run, and that run was painfully sort: it lasted 6 years, or 5 and a half. With a reboot that messed up a lot of the continuity and hit Jason like a bus. I think it's pretty remarkable that some stories with him, or some villains, survived enough that a lot of people can remember them (even if it's not most people). It's remarkable too, for Dick, because he was Robin in times when stories didn't need him to be an actual character; and yet you can remember stories from the 70's, for example, even when they're not big. That's remarkable, too, even if it's not a long lasting impact. Just like what Jason had for him.
[QUOTE=Zaresh;4799725]What does Damian go for him that's remarkable, outside his Batman and Robin with Dick?
Or Tim, outside some of his years in Robin? And the thing is, most people only remember his father's death and his Red Robin run.
Or Dick, outsiode being the first, the original, and a pretty good leader for the Titans and their stories? In forty-something years of history as Robin?
When you cut that close, then, every Robin has only one or maybe two things remarkable for them.
As I said, it's unfair, to said that the only remarkable thing for Jason is that, because it's not. He had more stuff in his run, and that run was painfully sort: it lasted 6 years, or 5 and a half. With a reboot that messed up a lot of the continuity and hit Jason like a bus. I think it's pretty remarkable that some stories with him, or some villains, survived enough that a lot of people can remember them (even if it's not most people). It's remarkable too, for Dick, because he was Robin in times when stories didn't need him to be an actual character; and yet you can remember stories from the 70's, for example, even when they're not big. That's remarkable, too, even if it's not a long standing impact. Just like what Jason had for him.[/QUOTE]
Oh c'mon! Let's ignore Tim's entire run as a solo, and a Titan, and in Young justice, and Damian's entire existnce. There is a reason Lobdell had to take from every other Robin to make somehing of Jason's history.
I’m not cutting it close, your just lowering the bar for what it is to be remarkable. Being the Robin in a Batman story isn’t remarkable, being around when other characters are created isn’t remarkable. Dying is what made his Robin tenure remarkable. The rest of what he did as Robin are footnotes by comparison. He didn’t last very long, and he wasn’t a Robin they used to bring the role into a new age. His tenure is marked because he died. If you start tying to claim everything as remarkable, it redefines what actually was or is remarkable.
[QUOTE=Rakiduam;4799748]Oh c'mon! Let's ignore Tim's entire run as a solo, and a Titan, and in Young justice, and Damian's entire existnce. There is a reason Lobdell had to take from every other Robin to make somehing of Jason's history.[/QUOTE]
I'm someone who has a mild knowledge of Tim's comics. I like them and know some of them and I'm not afraid of reading "old" books, read some of them; how many spot hits can remember someone who's not a fan of the character? You have to keep in mind that just because you do, some people don't have to. Stuff from more 20 years ago is older enough that most people is not going to be familiar or know about it. A lot of people hasn't read Tim in TT and YJ before Flashpoint (sadly, people are really missing a really fun read with YJ. I've not read TT, so I wouldn't know). A lot of people hasn't read his Robin run either. Most people remember him because he appears in certain stories that had impact, like (unfortunately) Identity Crisis. This is why people who remembers Tim either remembers him in that awful story, remembers him in some Batman story, remember him in his RR book (that falls under the 20 mark), or remembers him for his most recent books.
This works to for other characters. Think about Azrael, for example. There's Knightfall and... that run in the 90's? I can't remember much outside Knighfall, to be honest. I'm not interested in the character, and I've not find anyone recommending me any other story.
But the trial by fire is going to be Damian: seeing how Damian evolves in 20 years, how many people is going to remember Son of Batman or Supersons. I loved Supersons, and nowadays I see a lot of people recommending it. But in 20, I don't know... Dickbats, on the other hand, is going to be read once and again and be remembered.
Well, in my opinion.
We know our faves stories because they're our faves and we read them. But this isn't the same for other people who like other characters. I know near to nothing about Cassandra Cain, for example. I can't tell a remarkable thing about her outside her origin story and her being Batgirl. But can't remember a single story or hit outside that. Edit 2: and well, as I said, isn't it unfair when we cannot tell more than a thing or two about a character? But fans know better. We can tell more important things to fill in that list.
Maybe it's just me, that I'm a casual and it shows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. But I don't think this time it's the case.
Edit: or we have different definitions about what's remarkable. That seems to be the case.
[QUOTE=Ascended;4799412]The covers look great.
I get using Carrie for the 80's cover. It's Miller, it's DKR, it's a little diversity, etc. Sucks for Jason but his tenure as Robin is remarkable only because he died; his star didn't truly rise until he was Red Hood.
But really, the Steph cover is pretty awful. She was Robin for what, five minutes? Did it even last an actual year? Should've been Tim. Again, Steph makes for slightly better representation and that sort of thing should always be a consideration in business, but still. Should've been Tim.
At the very least, Tim and Jason should have shared the covers with Carrie and Steph, I think.
And Damien should've had his own cover. The group shot is fantastic; that's the cover I want, but Damien really should've had his own.
Dick looks fantastic on all of his covers though. They really did right by him, and I'm glad they used his classic look instead of the new generic re-designs.[/QUOTE]
All of this. That Kaare Andrews cover is my jam.
I hate how Batman in the 80s is so cemented with DKR. Hot take, I know, but I really do not love that book. I think Year One is way stronger and the most important moment in Robin's history during the 80s is either Jason's death or Dick graduating to Nightwing. Carrie is fine, but unremarkable in comparison.
[QUOTE=Rakiduam;4799748]Oh c'mon! Let's ignore Tim's entire run as a solo, and a Titan, and in Young justice, and Damian's entire existnce. There is a reason Lobdell had to take from every other Robin to make somehing of Jason's history.[/QUOTE]
what did jason take from tim and damian
jason going to the circus to see dick grayson? jason being adjancent to the LOA? Jason being red robin, jason murdering his teach after being taught how to do the job right.
if you just said took from dick i would have agreed with you,but he took nothing from tim or damian
When Steph was made a Robin to die for Bruce and Tim angst fodder and then went unacknowledged.
The cover and her inclusion in general is acknowledgement. Perhaps a way of apology for how her time as Robin was treated.
I'm honestly surprised. I thought people who are fans of Dick who's been screwed by DC too would understand this.
Or is it because Dick, Jean-Paul, and Gordon are not included in Batman anniversary?
Well, DC does have problems and they only act if people shame them forever or lose sales, and I dont hear any protest about that one as often as I heard Steph fans screamed about her treatment since the 2000s.
It took them a while to get that acknowledgement. Robin 75th anniversary was the first official one.
[QUOTE=Zaresh;4799692]It may be the most remarkable. But it isn't the only remarkable thing about his Robin. That's what I was arguing. It's hard to deny it, when dying had impact for others characters for a decade. Even if the impact is of my dislike half the time because they blamed him and turned him sometimes into something he wasn't. But is wasn't the only remarkable thing (quoting Ascended: "his tenure as Robin is remarkable only because he died").[/QUOTE]
Oh, don't mind me; I'm a fan of using a bit of hyperbole to spice up a post. :p
No, dying isn't the only thing Jason did as Robin. It's just the thing everyone remembers.
And I understand the business and marketing (about to finish my degree in business and marketing, matter of fact! yay me!) of using Carrie and Steph, and I wouldn't even argue that Carrie doesnt deserve it. DKR is a big deal (even if Year One is better). Steph on the other hand? Someone said it was 4 issues. Now, I'm not discounting her fans nor her contributions over the years. But she was Robin for four issues? Come on. She gets a cover for marketing purposes only, and I get that (would likely have argued for something similar myself), because as a Robin......four issues isn't even a "stint" as a Robin, it's barely more than cosplay. Like, we have seen Starfire wearing nothing but Dick's Robin shirt in more panels than we saw Steph as Robin. :p
[QUOTE=Ascended;4800399]Oh, don't mind me; I'm a fan of using a bit of hyperbole to spice up a post. :p
No, dying isn't the only thing Jason did as Robin. It's just the thing everyone remembers.
And I understand the business and marketing (about to finish my degree in business and marketing, matter of fact! yay me!) of using Carrie and Steph, and I wouldn't even argue that Carrie doesnt deserve it. DKR is a big deal (even if Year One is better). Steph on the other hand? Someone said it was 4 issues. Now, I'm not discounting her fans nor her contributions over the years. But she was Robin for four issues? Come on. She gets a cover for marketing purposes only, and I get that (would likely have argued for something similar myself), because as a Robin......four issues isn't even a "stint" as a Robin, it's barely more than cosplay. Like, we have seen Starfire wearing nothing but Dick's Robin shirt in more panels than we saw Steph as Robin. :p[/QUOTE]
Oh, ok.
Yeah, you have a point. Marketing probably has a lot to do with her being chosen. But perhaps her history outside her Robin days can help in the argument for choicing her for the cover. And Tim getting the 90's cover makes some space for that choice.
And that way we can have that gorgeous, gorgeous cover by Putri. Having two girls in there helps in making the composition work so beautifully :3.
[QUOTE=Digifiend;4798767]Steph's cover is at Tim's expense, not Jason's. Jason was unlucky in that Carrie and he both date from the same decade. Carrie's the reason he lost out.[/QUOTE]
Well it was DC's decision to do some decade variant cover theme. I wouldn't have done that and just given the 8 covers to the Robins that actually deserve it. Sure, the 00s could have been Tim and I would have no problems, but Damian was Robin in far more issues in the 00s than Steph was too. He could have gotten that cover as that is the decade when he debuted as Robin.
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4800388]When Steph was made a Robin to die for Bruce and Tim angst fodder and then went unacknowledged.
The cover and her inclusion in general is acknowledgement. Perhaps a way of apology for how her time as Robin was treated.
I'm honestly surprised. I thought people who are fans of Dick who's been screwed by DC too would understand this.
Or is it because Dick, Jean-Paul, and Gordon are not included in Batman anniversary?
Well, DC does have problems and they only act if people shame them forever or lose sales, and I dont hear any protest about that one as often as I heard Steph fans screamed about her treatment since the 2000s.
It took them a while to get that acknowledgement. Robin 75th anniversary was the first official one.[/QUOTE]
She didn't get screwed by DC because they didn't acknowledge her time as Robin. There is nothing to acknowledge. It was for 4 issues 15 years ago in a story that many don't look back on fondly. I didn't enjoy the story. She is far more iconic as Spoiler and Batgirl, and as Batgirl is when she finally got her acknowledgement as a hero in my eyes. That is her legacy, not Robin. DC taking the Batgirl identity away from her is what her fans were upset about far more and rightfully so.
Her time as Robin is completely forgettable outside her fans wanting her to keep it because it is a nice notch in her belt to be included with them. Which is something I at least can understand far more than her fans trying to act like those 4 issues were some profound story that makes her not being included some sin against comics. Sure, I'd love for Dick's time as Batman to be acknowledged more and for him to actually be counted as a Batman, but I know that will never happen. So it isn't something I push for since I know he will never be close to what Bruce is to the identity. It is the same as Steph for Robin, but her fans can't let it go.
Overall I just don't feel she added anything to the identity or legacy. I mean her "death" in War Games was already done far better by Jason, and Carrie is the first female Robin and part of one of the most iconic Batman stories of all time. So I'm fine with including her with the main 4, but I just don't think Steph did enough to be counted with them. I mean Starro/Jarro in Snyder's JL run has been wearing the Robin costume longer than Steph ever has, haha. Why isn't he included there?