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On the topic of logos, I find it pretty interesting that some of Wonder Woman's costumes, including the movie, feature an eagle's head on her armor, one that looks similar to Nightwing's. There's no canonical basis for it, but I do think it would be cool to add a connection to her in the formation of the Nightwing identity as well. The idea being that growing up with the Trinity led him to draw inspiration from all three of them. Rather than just Superman and Batman.
[QUOTE=Ascended;4943008]I didn't know Seeley could draw. Nice work.
Nice to see Dick with longer hair too. That length is definitely my preferred look for him, regardless of the costume.
But what's up with the fishnets on his forearms? I don't remember that from any costume?
Actually, speaking of hair.....Dick's had a lot of haircuts over the years, short, long, medium length, clean and slick, messy....do we think Dick should have one single haircut the way Superman and most other characters do (discounting the occasional mullet), or should Dick try to stick with the times and change his 'do occasionally? I could see him rocking one of those viking style cuts that seem popular right now....long on top, shaved on the sides and back....what's it called, a undercut or something? Damian has something like that too, only it's still fairly short on top.
Obviously a modern haircut could end up looking dated after a while, but that doesn't seem like much of a hurdle if you ask me. We might shake our heads at Superman's 90's mullet, but it doesn't really ruin the reading or anything.[/QUOTE]
If we go by the usual definition that Dick is supposed to be the young and sexy one, the idealized young man that youth follows and idolize... the trendsetter, then he should do whatever trendy hair at any given era. His long hair in the 90s and the mullet was because it was trendy at that time.
That said, Jason is younger and more around that college-age where you experiment with hair, and they did give him the undercut. Not many people like that, and right now Jason fans already love Dexter Soy's depiction. Cut short, then completed with Adidas-inspired sporty clothing.
They seem to have settled for short shaggy hair for Dick, but depending on the artist's and situation it's either unkempt or styled. Barrows and whoever draws for Percy's arc gave him the unkempt look, Minkyu Jung styled more like Korean boyband, and Marcus To goes for anime, but they're pretty much the same length.
So I guess Dick should be more of a young professional age where he already has a steady look, but since he's not on the job often and he's a messy person, a shaggy look fits him well.
It can be styled for a date, arranged neatly for work, unkempt when he's on his own, and giving that windswept look when he's on rooftops to go along with his handsome face but short enough that it's not getting in the way of his eyes.
[QUOTE=Pohzee;4944560]On the topic of logos, I find it pretty interesting that some of Wonder Woman's costumes, including the movie, feature an eagle's head on her armor, one that looks similar to Nightwing's. There's no canonical basis for it, but I do think it would be cool to add a connection to her in the formation of the Nightwing identity as well. The idea being that growing up with the Trinity led him to draw inspiration from all three of them. Rather than just Superman and Batman.[/QUOTE]
He is the Boy WONDER, after all.
We all know the DC Trinity is actually secretly a Quartet and Dick Grayson is that D'Artagnon.
[QUOTE=K. Jones;4945024]He is the Boy WONDER, after all.
We all know the DC Trinity is actually secretly a Quartet and Dick Grayson is that D'Artagnon.[/QUOTE]
Damn straight.
I'd be fine with Diana having more of an influence on young Dick's life, but at this point we can barely get DC to recognize Dick's established relationships outside of Gotham, so giving Diana extra weight seems damn unlikely. :(
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4944788]If we go by the usual definition that Dick is supposed to be the young and sexy one, the idealized young man that youth follows and idolize... the trendsetter, then he should do whatever trendy hair at any given era. His long hair in the 90s and the mullet was because it was trendy at that time.
That said, Jason is younger and more around that college-age where you experiment with hair, and they did give him the undercut. Not many people like that, and right now Jason fans already love Dexter Soy's depiction. Cut short, then completed with Adidas-inspired sporty clothing. [/QUOTE]
It's true that Jason is closer to that "experimental college" age, but he never struck me as the kind of guy who'd pay much attention to this sort of thing.
[QUOTE=Ascended;4945099]Damn straight.
I'd be fine with Diana having more of an influence on young Dick's life, but at this point we can barely get DC to recognize Dick's established relationships outside of Gotham, so giving Diana extra weight seems damn unlikely. :(
It's true that Jason is closer to that "experimental college" age, but he never struck me as the kind of guy who'd pay much attention to this sort of thing.[/QUOTE]considering. He woke up 18 I doubt he cares
I'm a big fan of the shaggy look for him. I think he should look like he *had* a nice haircut, but constantly needs to get back to the barber.
Saw the blue and yellow costume come up as well, so I'm gonna use that as a jumping off point for one of my controversial Nightwing opinions: His costume really SHOULD be blue and yellow still. Honestly the two tones of blue + gold from his titans day work great with his current iconography. The black and blue suit was literally an attempt to make him seem more like batman, darker and edgier. The blue and yellow feels more like something a performer would wear. I'd like the current costume in a dark blue, with a gold chevron/bird head. and lightblue mask, gloves, and boots.
I've wondered if it's time to put a little more color back into Dick's costume as well. I really did love the blue-yellow one from the early 90's.
I'm not sure though; the blue-black look he's had for the last twenty-odd years is extremely well known and is the look he's had in every larger media appearance, except for one of those animated movies that did the New52 black-red, I think? If we can say that Nightwing has a "iconic" design, it's the blue-black costume, and changing that too drastically might be a step backwards for his brand recognition.
Perhaps a fusion, where we take the blue-black and add in some yellow or something, would work? But really, I think the blue-black is a good look; easy to tweak without losing the overall design sensibility, it looks good, and it's Nightwing's most well known costume.
Every new costume now more or less just illiterates his costume peaked in the 00’s. Because they’re all just variations of that basic outline. Now don’t get me wrong, I like that costume, but I’m not liking how the variations of it are getting simpler and simpler. To be just a black jump suit with a symbol in the middle. Though at the same time a costume can be too busy, like his new Robin costume. So i don't know, i guess simpler is still better than that.
If this costume was blue, it would be my favorite ever. He has the gauntlet that serves as a utility belt, has that spikes in his arms, reminiscing of his time as Batman, the stripes, a lot a cool details. I really like this suit.
The only bad part is the red.
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxN3p5FIYAA_k5i.jpg[/IMG]
I've had the same thought that the blue and yellow look would probably be a better representation of the character. But... I like the black and light blue look too much to give it up.
Personally I never think it's quite been done right in the comics, but it's getting there. The early 00's didn't have a particularly iconic logo which is why his logo from the animated show has gained such recognition with the character despite never appearing in the comics. We're moving in that direction, but the Rebirth suit still has a few unnecessary flourishes that are too detailed or not well thought out to be a truly iconic design.
For my money, the best Dick has ever looked is the Animated Series skin in the Batman Arkham City game, where he had the full black suit with the iconic blue eagle but no unnecessary detailing. (And they chopped the mullet!)
[QUOTE=Drako;4947270]If this costume was blue, it would be my favorite ever. He has the gauntlet that serves as a utility belt, has that spikes in his arms, reminiscing of his time as Batman, the stripes, a lot a cool details. I really like this suit.
The only bad part is the red.[/QUOTE]
By and large I agree; Booth did a good job giving the suit some weight and making it look like more than just spandex without losing the sleek design sensibility (for the most part). The red was problematic, and I think he was a little *too* detailed, but generally I thought it was a damn viable design, outside of the color.
[QUOTE=Pohzee;4947349]I've had the same thought that the blue and yellow look would probably be a better representation of the character. But... I like the black and light blue look too much to give it up.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm not willing to give it up either, it's as close as we've got to a iconic design for Dick and I'm loathe to give that up. But if a bit of yellow could be worked in here or there without losing the suit's recognition factor I wouldn't complain.
Does anyone else what the gliders he had back? I'm curious. The more I think about it Dick does have other talents that haven't been explored. He did in some comics play the guitar. Why not have him be a guitar tutor? Or some type of music tutor
Someone has to draw it first since I've never seen a yellow that works for me. I don't even like light blue. I only like the dark blue or red. More dark blue than red.
I like the glider. It's functional.
Agree about the glider. If only there were some way to combine the DCAU version with the George Perez version:
[CENTER][img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/36/74/da/3674dab8592e467641d3464967121f47.gif[/img]
[img]https://66.media.tumblr.com/ed5efd4e4b44fd57a42c6660754f5f8f/tumblr_inline_oz0xsitoPj1qd2lvk_1280.jpg[/img][/CENTER]
I'm conflicted about the glider. It 100% come down to execution. If it was used right it would be cool to see Dick flying through the air with "the greatest of ease," sailing and looping acrobatically, but it could also be used as a shortcut for lazy visual storytelling where he just glides everywhere and could come off as way less dynamic that his typical Spider-slinging way of getting around.
It's not exactly the same thing, but what I'm thinking of here is the glider from Tomasi's run, where he just flew everywhere on his glider and it wasn't very interesting. It made the story feel like he was quick traveling through a video game or something.
I totally support the glider. But it has to be Dick's secondary form of transportation, used only in particular circumstances like 1. there isn't enough around for him to parkour (think Spider-Man when he's in the suburbs and can't swing) 2. long distance travel (think Infinite Crisis) or 3. if he's fighting someone who can fly and they're above building level.
[QUOTE=K7P5V;4948719]Agree about the glider. If only there were some way to combine the DCAU version with the George Perez version:[/QUOTE]
Here were some mockups I made trying to combine the two.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/bnhciJg.png[/IMG]
Im digging the bottom right.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;4949602]Im digging the bottom right.[/QUOTE]
Same. I think if you want to get back to that early 90's vibe you need the belt and boots and gloves, which the black-blue generally does away with (outside of arm and finger stripes).
I'm still satisfied with the black-blue, but if DC were to put some yellow back in, that's how I'd like to see it done. Good job Pohzee!
Thanks! 10char
[QUOTE=Ascended;4949606][QUOTE=Godlike13;4949602][QUOTE=Pohzee;4949571]Here were some mockups I made trying to combine the two.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/bnhciJg.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]Im digging the bottom right.[/QUOTE]Same. I think if you want to get back to that early 90's vibe you need the belt and boots and gloves, which the black-blue generally does away with (outside of arm and finger stripes).
I'm still satisfied with the black-blue, but if DC were to put some yellow back in, that's how I'd like to see it done. Good job Pohzee![/QUOTE]
^^^In total agreement. They're all very well done. :cool:
[QUOTE=Pohzee;4949571]Here were some mockups I made trying to combine the two.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/bnhciJg.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
If we have to go this color I honestly prefer the ones with no black
No idea why I just don't think the light blue plus yellow with the black is a good combo but it looks better with the dark blue
Hmm... maybe because of the familiarity with Perez costume
The Stelfreeze black mixed with elements of Perez feels like two different eras mixed together and my mind can't reconcile it.
The first one I think it's best because it has the simplest shape. The bird logo isn't divided into two colors
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4950440]If we have to go this color I honestly prefer the ones with no black
No idea why I just don't think the light blue plus yellow with the black is a good combo but it looks better with the dark blue
Hmm... maybe because of the familiarity with Perez costume
The Stelfreeze black mixed with elements of Perez feels like two different eras mixed together and my mind can't reconcile it.
The first one I think it's best because it has the simplest shape. The bird logo isn't divided into two colors[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the idea was to experiment with a range between the classic and colorful Perez and Mulletwing suit and the sleek and iconic BTNA suit. The most like the BTNA is the top middle and the most like the traditional suit is the top right. The left top and bottom were both attempts to streamline the more detailed classic suit while the bottom right was trying to add as much color and flair as possible to the blue and black. I think that my favorite is the bottom left, but I was pleasantly surprised by how well the Black and Yellow look came out.
I was pretty happy with how well the two-colored logo turned out actually. By simply making the feathers yellow, it evokes the yellow detailing of the Perez suit, retains the overall shape of the BTNA eagle that is so tied to the Nightwing brand, and the remaining portion of the blue bird is quite similar to the slim Rebirth logo that I've grown to like.
[QUOTE=Pohzee;4950668]Yeah, the idea was to experiment with a range between the classic and colorful Perez and Mulletwing suit and the sleek and iconic BTNA suit. The most like the BTNA is the top middle and the most like the traditional suit is the top right. The left top and bottom were both attempts to streamline the more detailed classic suit while the bottom right was trying to add as much color and flair as possible to the blue and black. I think that my favorite is the bottom left, but I was pleasantly surprised by how well the Black and Yellow look came out.
I was pretty happy with how well the two-colored logo turned out actually. By simply making the feathers yellow, it evokes the yellow detailing of the Perez suit, retains the overall shape of the BTNA eagle that is so tied to the Nightwing brand, and the remaining portion of the blue bird is quite similar to the slim Rebirth logo that I've grown to like.[/QUOTE]
I see I see
Wait, try the top left, but make the logo light blue and the collar yellow. Flip them around. I'm curious.
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4950850]I see I see
Wait, try the top left, but make the logo light blue and the collar yellow. Flip them around. I'm curious.[/QUOTE]
Here ya go. There's three variations of that for ya. Plus two more closer to Mulletwing for funsies. (And so I could re-use my template ;))
I'm not a huge fan, but my brother says it gives him Invincible vibes. I definitely still prefer the black and blue overall, but some of these would be fun for something styled in a semi-retro fashion like The Batman Brave and the Bold was or as an early Nightwing costume like the Rocafort one.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/bUd9MLo.png[/IMG]
SCOTT SNYDER's NIGHTWING Pitch: How Gotham Would Be Different Under His Mantle
[url]https://www.newsarama.com/50017-nightwing-scott-snyder.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Drako;4951092]SCOTT SNYDER's NIGHTWING Pitch: How Gotham Would Be Different Under His Mantle
[url]https://www.newsarama.com/50017-nightwing-scott-snyder.html[/url][/QUOTE]
So wait, is that saying Dick puts the Bat-mantle back on or is it during a previous point where he was already Batman?
Given Snyder’s DickBats is awesome, I’ll be excited for the story. But if he really will take up the cowl, it just goes to show how little the Nightwing identity means to DC. And if it’s an elseworlds it won’t be doing much for the character.
So it's not a Nightwing pitch after all. That's really disappointing.
[QUOTE=sifighter;4951137]So wait, is that saying Dick puts the Bat-mantle back on or is it during a previous point where he was already Batman?[/QUOTE]
It sounds like he takes over for Batman, but AS Nightwing. That's how I interpreted it. Wouldn't make sense for his time as Batman to be explored only to have him do it again.
Sounds like it might be a non DCU project. Kind of like Murphy's White Knight book where he has the freedom to do what he wants with Gotham but with Dick as the focus here maybe. The scope he is talking about feels too big for Dick's normal solo book, which is great. One of the biggest things I find frustrating about Dick's solo Nightwing book is how small the stories are in scale when you have a character with 80 years of DC history to play with. So many of his stories just feel inconsequential and repetitive and if Snyder wants to do something bigger in scope then that is great.
I mean I’m down for it no matter what, I’d like to read an actual Nightwing story and I like Scott Snyder’s writing so, win win for me overall.
Well, Snyder says the story is about Dick taking over for Bruce, and looking at Dick at each stage of his career. So it's likely a non-continuity miniseries, or possibly 5G. If 5G is even happening anymore and those Luke rumors prove to be false.
So, Snyder writes a quality Grayson and almost anything would be better than what we've had lately. But it makes me laugh that he's doing "a comprehensive view of Dick's full career" and is still ending up with Dick in Gotham doing detective work. I mean....really? That's the bar? Dick just taking over the family business? I was hoping for more.
I personally have to say that I only like the Nightwing Costume of Rebirth and not the Animated Version which covers also the nose or the Perez Versions.
I like the domino mask and the simplicity of the Nightwing Rebirth Costume.
[QUOTE=Drako;4951092]SCOTT SNYDER's NIGHTWING Pitch: How Gotham Would Be Different Under His Mantle
[url]https://www.newsarama.com/50017-nightwing-scott-snyder.html[/url][/QUOTE]
See Snyder gets it. It’s not about things like being the best detective, it’s about how to be more unique as a detective. As Batman, Nightwing, or Agent 37 ill take whatever I can get from creators who get it.
[QUOTE=Pohzee;4950937]Here ya go. There are three variations of that for ya. Plus two more closer to Mulletwing for funsies. (And so I could re-use my template ;))
I'm not a huge fan, but my brother says it gives him Invincible vibes. I definitely still prefer the black and blue overall, but some of these would be fun for something styled in a semi-retro fashion like The Batman Brave and the Bold was or as an early Nightwing costume like the Rocafort one.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/bUd9MLo.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Thanks! Cool.
Yeah, I can see the Invincible, and the yellow collar doesn't work as good as I thought. I think because of the dark blue can contrast with his light skin while the yellow swallows it.
The top right works for me because of its simplicity and contrast, but it also reminds me of Batgirl lol
[QUOTE=Ascended;4951326]Well, Snyder says the story is about Dick taking over for Bruce, and looking at Dick at each stage of his career. So it's likely a non-continuity miniseries, or possibly 5G. If 5G is even happening anymore and those Luke rumors prove to be false.
So, Snyder writes a quality Grayson and almost anything would be better than what we've had lately. But it makes me laugh that he's doing "a comprehensive view of Dick's full career" and is still ending up with Dick in Gotham doing detective work. I mean....really? That's the bar? Dick just taking over the family business? I was hoping for more.[/QUOTE]yeah out of all the things nightwing could be he just in up becoming replacement batman.
I mean a detective in Gotham? (Man bludhaven does nothing for nightwing) and snyder wonders why people see him as batman lite.
But then again what else could nightwing be under the bat office?
[QUOTE=sifighter;4951137]So wait, is that saying Dick puts the Bat-mantle back on, or is it during a previous point where he was already Batman?[/QUOTE]
He wishes to make a story he didn't get to make. Not The Court, but other ideas he didn't get to tell yet during Dick's time as Batman
He also wants to make Dick's stories from each beginning of his career akin to Robin Year One and Nightwing Year One, but something of his own.
It can be out of continuity or within continuity. They can just slip all these stories as part of his lengthy back story similar to Legends of The Dark Knight.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;4951801]See Snyder gets it. It’s not about things like being the best detective, it’s about how to be more unique as a detective. As Batman, Nightwing, or Agent 37 ill take whatever I can get from creators who get it.[/QUOTE]
100% - I get a bit tired of the Top Trumps school of characterisation ("Tim as a score of 76 against Being A Detective whereas Dick only has 55"/"Ah, but Dick has an 81 for Heart!"), so it's refreshing to hear Snyder talk about Dick having different skills rather than placing him a line compared to other characters.
Liking what Snyder's saying here, he really seems be [I]interested[/I] in exploring and doing right by Dick's character - even if, on the face of it, it's a bit Gotham-focussed.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;4951801]See Snyder gets it. It’s not about things like being the best detective, it’s about how to be more unique as a detective. As Batman, Nightwing, or Agent 37 ill take whatever I can get from creators who get it.[/QUOTE]
I'm definitely going to check out whatever this ends up being.
Yeah, I'm concerned that this will just be more Bat-lite crap. The last things I wanted to see in Nightwing is the Bat cowl and Gotham. But Snyder writes a good Dick Grayson, and if this story is hitting all the major eras of Dick's career then there's gonna be something here for all of us. That's pretty great, and after putting up with Ric for two years all of us deserve at least a taste of our favorite Grayson. I really don't want more DickBats; after Ric all I want is quality Nightwing. But Snyder writes a good Grayson and anything is better than what we've had lately.
And what have we all been saying for the last few years? That Dick deserves some investment and needs some big name creators. Well, here we are, DC's biggest writer is doing a project with Dick. Time to put our money where our mouths are, and at least give this an issue or three to see where it goes.
I'm also wondering if this isn't going to end up being Snyder establishing a new normal for Dick. It might just be an Elseworlds or something, a "What If Dick stayed Batman?" but what little was said in that article is reminding me of Johns' Superman: Secret Origin mini, which sought to establish a baseline history for Superman as well as define the approach for the future of the franchise. It was a god awful story, one of the worst Superman tales I've ever read, but the intent of SO sounds a bit like what Snyder is saying here. And I wouldn't be against Snyder establishing a new, polished baseline status quo for Nightwing.
Y'know, Jim Lee said he'd protect the character. I think we're starting to see what he meant by that. And so far it's a hell of an improvement over Didio. Even if this does end up being a Elseworlds so Snyder could write more DickBats, it's more than Didio gave us.