-
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4901923]I thought people agree that Battle for The Cowl is stupid and shouldn't be canon? At least that seems to be the consensus back when it came out? What's with Damian randomly picking up girls, Jason randomly going on a rampage even though he should've been at least smarter than that, and it is Tony Daniel's first writing gig which he bound to get [I]some[/I] things wrong?
I remember everyone back then suggested to skip Battle for The Cowl and go with Batman Long Shadows instead if they want to read about Batman transition.[/QUOTE]
I don’t remember either of those particularly being praised.
-
So should Jason or Dick get along or just be hostile. I often feel that it’s a brotherly thing at times but they can be pissed off. Than again he has tried to kill them at times
-
I prefer it when Jason isn't included in family gatherings. I feel like since he returned to the fold and been included in things he's lost his fangs, so to speak. I think Dick and Jason love each other like brothers; it's a complicated dynamic considering everything like Death in the Family, and there's love there. But a lot of pain and disappointment and regret and resentment too.
I'd rather they kind of not like being in the same room together, but still be willing to help one another when the other is up against a wall.
-
I agree, to me it misses the point with Jason. I don't even think Dick and Jason love each other like brothers. That's too convenient. Dick and Bruce are family by bond not blood. Dick developed an actual bond with Tim and Damian, the time they spent together is what made them close. He doesn't have that with Jason. He never really did. He accepted the kid, but no bond was really developed with them beyond that before Jason died, and when Jason came back he was actively trying to maim and/or murder him and the others. There is no reason for Dick to just accept or like Jason, and vice versa. Unlike Bruce Dick doesn't owe Jason anything. Just because Bruce sweeps things under the rug with Jason doesn't mean Dick should too. Thats boring and lazy. Red Hood is suppose to be polarizing.
-
In an early Dixon Nightwing, Scarecrow made Dick had insecurity in comparison to Bruce where he's married to Donna but poor living right next door to the rich ass Bruce
Where... did this come from? I mean I haven't read what leads up to it, but it just looks out of nowhere, because while Dick may have insecurities it's not about wealth.
Also, Donna? Is this because they only recently broke him up with Starfire and they haven't built up his relation with Babs?
-
That Dick had kind of an "inferiority complex" (not sure if that's the right term) was iirc a thing since NTT (I think it was one of the things he spoke about with his therapist).
Why Donna I don't raelly know, maybe he wanted to use someone close to Dick, who he normally doesn't have romantic relation with?
Btw. it was actually the hallucination of Jason that shocked him out of it. (And he also hallucinated Jason in his Secret Files and Origins issue).
-
I think the insecurity, for someone who used to work for a perfectionist like Batman, makes sense, it's the wealth thing and Donna that threw me off. If the fear is about not being able to guard Bludhaven as good as Batman guard Gotham (which isn't saying much but Dick kinda put Bruce on a pedestal) that sounds better to me.
Wait maybe that's it. He puts Bruce on a pedestal, despite everything they went through. They just make up after having a rift post Jason's death, so his state of mind is probably back to admiration.
Since a nightmare doesn't have to make sense, that feeling of fear and inadequacy now that he has to take care of a city on his own, made him compare himself to Bruce, but cleaning a city is an abstract concept. Wealth isn't. You can easily imagine wealth represented by materials.
So in a nightmare, the symbols that came up to represent the inadequacy towards what Dick perceives to be perfection, as he puts Bruce on a pedestal, is wealth.
-
Weird, I thought Donna's relationship to Dick was always more brother-sister, not romantic. He loves her, but not that way.
-
Yeah, I've always thought Jason worked best as a true anti-hero, willing to kill bad people, who operates outside of the family. I can see the argument for "character growth" away from his under the hood persona, but i think that growth actually looses more than it gains. Will-straight-up-kill-the-drug-dealer-Jason is something much different than the rest of the family, and still allows him to be a "good guy." I also think that Dick should pretty much hate him for trying to hurt Bruce and for still being willing to use lethal force. Dick is SO black and white with his morality. He's willing to help someone reform once they've "repented" so to speak, but if Jason still things he's in the right of it, Dick should want him away from family gatherings and actively oppose him. They should be rivals, not friends.
And maybe Dick *should* forgive him, is the thing. Like, perhaps the right thing to do is to welcome Jason back with open arms and love him like a brother. But he can't. Unrepentant lethal force, trying to harm Bruce, Dick sees these as unforgivable sins.
-
Yea. They did try to get him with Donna I think but you know. That would be interesting. Hmmm, so Jason should be not a Bats anymore. But now he is somewhat. He doesn't often want to deal with Bruce. Or any of them. Expect Babs.
I mean Nightwing globetrotter hero. Okay, but the main cast and others are important. Three characters from Nightwing history that should be part of this globetrotter comic. Also important supporting cast. Does he go to spiral or does he simply do his own thing? LIke he joins an acrobat team in Bludhaven that travels. Part of Haley Circus. I don't know with or without him being part of BAtfam I can't see him just ridding himself of the name.
-
[QUOTE=Digifiend;4903588]Weird, I thought Donna's relationship to Dick was always more brother-sister, not romantic. He loves her, but not that way.[/QUOTE]
Yeah! And it gets even more weird once Roy shows up. :p
-
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4901923]I thought people agree that Battle for The Cowl is stupid and shouldn't be canon? At least that seems to be the consensus back when it came out? [B]What's with Damian randomly picking up girls,[/B] Jason randomly going on a rampage even though he should've been at least smarter than that, and it is Tony Daniel's first writing gig which he bound to get [I]some[/I] things wrong?
I remember everyone back then suggested to skip Battle for The Cowl and go with Batman Long Shadows instead if they want to read about Batman transition.[/QUOTE]
...Wait what :confused:?
-
[QUOTE=Digifiend;4903588]Weird, I thought Donna's relationship to Dick was always more brother-sister, not romantic. He loves her, but not that way.[/QUOTE]
That’s exactly right
-
I mean would Donna and Dick ever even work really?
-
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4903017]I think the insecurity, for someone who used to work for a perfectionist like Batman, makes sense, it's the wealth thing and Donna that threw me off. [/QUOTE]I guess it is less about the wealth and more about success/achievements. Just read the part were Dick is going to Bruce for advice.
-
College is cancelled and I am bored, so I drew a redesign of the Agent 37 suit over the YJ Nightwing model. I always thought the suit in YJ was more spy than superhero and was never a fan of the cargo shorts in Janin's design.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/LMN5dOF.png[/IMG]
Original for reference:
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Gi8xpeC.png[/IMG]
-
[QUOTE=Pohzee;4904381]I always thought the suit in YJ was more spy than superhero and was never a fan of the cargo shorts in Janin's design.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/LMN5dOF.png[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]That's because he's a spy in YJ.:) He just works for/with the league.
-
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;4903896]I mean would Donna and Dick ever even work really?[/QUOTE]
The whole passing her around thing ehh
-
Yea in UJ. He uses Haley's Circus as a cover. That way he can spot out heroes and other issues. This is why I think Haley Circus can still be used. He isn't working for the league. He is an acrobat for the Circus but will do detective work with intel he finds
-
Can you please give examples of his flaws ?
I can only remember him being really mean to starfire when she married other guy to prevent war and to Donna for forcing him with her strength to talk about his problems. He pointed out her flaws which was all true but still mean. Also him cheating on Babs but that it.
-
Im confused ...What is heroic about that Nightwing that Dick wanted to name himself after the home wrecker?
-
I'm confused about why you think he named himself after a home wrecker - he actually named himself after Superman.
-
Well technically the Nightwing from Kryptonian myth had an affair with the married Flamebird, which lead to her husband going from a god of creation to a god of destruction.....
So I suppose we could call the Nightwing entity a home wrecker.....
But I'm pretty sure Dick took the name because the Nightwing was a protector who haunted the darkness for threats to Rao and Krypton. :p
-
[QUOTE=Pohzee;4904381]College is cancelled and I am bored, so I drew a redesign of the Agent 37 suit over the YJ Nightwing model. I always thought the suit in YJ was more spy than superhero and was never a fan of the cargo shorts in Janin's design.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/LMN5dOF.png[/IMG]
Original for reference:
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Gi8xpeC.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
It looks really good
[QUOTE=Janet wayne;4904722]Im confused ...What is heroic about that Nightwing that Dick wanted to name himself after the home wrecker?[/QUOTE]
What's in a name? Now that I think about many heroes names aren't that heroic, more descriptive, "Batman" "Robin""Batgirl"...
-
Okay I do think thanks to YJ we can bring back Haley's Circus. Dick uses that has a cover to investiage.
One other thing if there were a Robin movie how should it end. With Dick leaving and Jason Todd putting on the Suit or focusing jiust on Dick.
-
[QUOTE=Frontier;4903746]...Wait what :confused:?[/QUOTE]
Yeah. Damian's first scene in Battle for The Cowl was stealing the Batmobile to take a random goth girl on a joyride. Babs found out about it, took over the car control, eject the girl, and crash the car into the swamp, where Damian was found by Killer Croc, who want to nom Damian, prompting him to scream for mommy, at which Dick rescued him with a hang glider.
In later Tony Daniel Batman Detective Comics' work, he referenced the scene. Damian said he's not scared of anything, and Batman Dick reminded him that he was scared of Killer Croc.
-
[QUOTE=Pohzee;4904381]College is cancelled and I am bored, so I drew a redesign of the Agent 37 suit over the YJ Nightwing model. I always thought the suit in YJ was more spy than superhero and was never a fan of the cargo shorts in Janin's design.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/LMN5dOF.png[/IMG]
Original for reference:
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Gi8xpeC.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
[B]Sigh.[/B] And the hits keep coming...
Its posts like these that serve as a (painful) reminder of what could have been.
[I know. I know...I sound like a broken record].
I'm by no means an artist but this fanart/ concept is really good and would've really worked in the series.
Kudos.
-
But I mean in Young Justice he was already a spy for JL. He does it by using Haley circus Why should he be Agent 37? Is he Agent 37 and Nightwing or just Agent 37?
-
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4905552]Yeah. Damian's first scene in Battle for The Cowl was stealing the Batmobile to take a random goth girl on a joyride. Babs found out about it, took over the car control, eject the girl, and crash the car into the swamp, where Damian was found by Killer Croc, who want to nom Damian, prompting him to scream for mommy, at which Dick rescued him with a hang glider.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure that the art suggests, as well, that the girl who gets "ejected" is then torn apart and eaten by Croc. So... well done, Babs.
-
[QUOTE=Claude;4909518]I'm pretty sure that the art suggests, as well, that the girl who gets "ejected" is then torn apart and eaten by Croc. So... well done, Babs.[/QUOTE]
Wow, this sounds like a terrible story :p.
-
[QUOTE=Claude;4909518]I'm pretty sure that the art suggests, as well, that the girl who gets "ejected" is then torn apart and eaten by Croc. So... well done, Babs.[/QUOTE]
Definitely not what happened. In the same page Croc is hitting against the batmobile and after that he is in the swamp with Damian. The last thing we see form the girl is her falling with a parachute in front of the moon. Nothing suggests that she was eaten.
If the girl were eaten people would lost their minds.
-
double post.
Edit: Here is the page.
[IMG]https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fRfRA7aDmA0/VTImbV9OqMI/AAAAAAAKl50/dav7F_6wuQ4/s1600/p2_22%2Bcopy.jpg[/IMG]
-
[QUOTE=Janet wayne;4904722]Im confused ...What is heroic about that Nightwing that Dick wanted to name himself after the home wrecker?[/QUOTE]
I guess the part about Nightwing being a Kryptonian hero. All the acts of heroism.
-
[QUOTE=Drako;4909539]Definitely not what happened. In the same page Croc is hitting against the batmobile and after that he is in the swamp with Damian. The last thing we see form the girl is her falling with a parachute in front of the moon. Nothing suggests that she was eaten.
If the girl were eaten people would lost their minds.[/QUOTE]
Nope, I've gone and checked - Croc definitely eats her. I've never got the hang of posting images, but it's a couple of pages after the one you've uploaded - Damian's in the swamp with Croc and Ivy, Croc has blood on his mouth and is dropping the girl's bloodied pink sneaker and says "thanks for the appetizer".
She dead.
-
Yeah, went back to check that out too.
More reason to hate that storyline.
-
[QUOTE=dietrich;4909608]I guess the part about Nightwing being a Kryptonian hero. All the acts of heroism.[/QUOTE]
Yup, the Nightwing definitely seemed to be a big deal in Kryptonian mythology. Saved Rao from threats even the other gods couldn't detect and all manner of things.
I'm no expert on Kryptonian myth, since most of that stuff was developed long before I was reading (or even born), but from what I understand it was very much like Dick himself; a protector who operated in the shadows, tackling threats before anyone else knew they were there.
It seems the biggest myth the Nightwing was a part of is the dissolution of the Flamebird's marriage and her ex-husband becoming a destroyer (which I think was eventually tied to Krypton's instability and destruction?) but even so, the Nightwing was considered a noble, good god by the ancient Kryptonians (before Raoism fell and was replaced by science anyway).
I always thought it was a good name for Dick.
-
[QUOTE=Claude;4909614]Nope, I've gone and checked - Croc definitely eats her. I've never got the hang of posting images, but it's a couple of pages after the one you've uploaded - Damian's in the swamp with Croc and Ivy, Croc has blood on his mouth and is dropping the girl's bloodied pink sneaker and says "thanks for the appetizer".
She dead.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you're right. I didn't catching this the first time, cause i didn't remember reading something like this. Holy shit.
I also don't remember people making a big deal out of this, weird.
-
[QUOTE=Drako;4909640]Yeah, you're right. I didn't catching this the first time, cause i didn't remember reading something like this. Holy shit.
I also don't remember people making a big deal out of this, weird.[/QUOTE]
Allow me to re-iterate what I said in the TV/Film forum; what about the redshirts!? In this case, a teen girl suddenly eaten by Killer Croc? Yeesh. And Babs didn't take any flack for it? Worse.
-
The Kryptonian relationship to the Nightwing name is basically irrelevant to Dick's character these days. It is one of those things I think fans put far more weight on than the actual creators do. Dick basically has no relationship with Superman or the Superman family anymore outside of maybe Dick and Clark crossing paths once every 5 or so years in a story. There has been a consistent push to try and erase the connection to the Kryptonian legend from what I have seen.
Near the start of Rebirth there was a small push to try and have the Nightwing name come from the Court of Owls. They hinted that the Night + Wing of the name actually represents an Owl. I bet in the future they will try to push that again given how obsessed they are with Dick and the Owls despite Dick never having a truly great Owls story to justify any of it. Then there was the live action Titans TV show where they came up with some completely different origin for the Nightwing name that Dick got while in some prison in South America or something stupid. Finally the Kryptonian element of every other media Nightwing adaptation is completely ignored or overlooked. It just doesn't really seem to matter overall.
I personally prefer the Kryptonian element of the name, but I bet they will eventually retcon it into something else. It just feels like that is the direction things will eventually go.
-
Should Dick ever even be part of the court?
Should we fix Dick’s relationship with Clark? Like Him having a relationship with Clark?
