I always support giving Damian to Dick if the Bat title isn't gonna do anything with him
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I always support giving Damian to Dick if the Bat title isn't gonna do anything with him
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5036432]
I do think you are touching on something though, how do you build on Dick’s maturation going forward. With the catch that you don’t want to age the world, and don’t want to just do the same thing that was done with those around him. Cause I’m sorry but that’s boring.[/QUOTE]
You do it by focusing on Dick, not the people *around* him.
The next step of Dick's maturation doesn't have to mean he gets married, has a kid, and buys a house in the suburbs. It can mean Dick taking on a unique role in the hero community, stepping up his game to play a larger role against more important threats, establishing stable career. Or any number of things. The Grayson series gave us a taste of what the "next step evolution" could look like, as has Young Justice season 3, but it doesn't necessarily have to be either "super spy" or "hunter of metahuman trafficking."
So, something like Dick becoming the owner of Haly's Circus/Casino/Civic Center and focusing on taking down organized crime rings around the world or hunting down corruption within business and/or politics? That would be the "next step maturation" we're talking about, without Dick having to become a father or get married or anything else that makes him "look older."
If the NTT were college, then Dick now should be that "young hotshot professional" who's setting his industry on fire with bold, brave new thinking and big risks. The guy who has enough experience to be comfortable and competent at the job but isn't part of the old guard.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5036655]You do it by focusing on Dick, not the people *around* him.
The next step of Dick's maturation doesn't have to mean he gets married, has a kid, and buys a house in the suburbs. It can mean Dick taking on a unique role in the hero community, stepping up his game to play a larger role against more important threats, establishing stable career. Or any number of things. The Grayson series gave us a taste of what the "next step evolution" could look like, as has Young Justice season 3, but it doesn't necessarily have to be either "super spy" or "hunter of metahuman trafficking."
So, something like Dick becoming the owner of Haly's Circus/Casino/Civic Center and focusing on taking down organized crime rings around the world or hunting down corruption within business and/or politics? That would be the "next step maturation" we're talking about, without Dick having to become a father or get married or anything else that makes him "look older."
If the NTT were college, then Dick now should be that "young hotshot professional" who's setting his industry on fire with bold, brave new thinking and big risks. The guy who has enough experience to be comfortable and competent at the job but isn't part of the old guard.[/QUOTE]
All dick really needs is for DC to focus on these 3 basic concepts for nightwing.
1) His independence. DC needs to start having nightwing feel like he's his own hero. Not a supporting character, sidekick, adult Robin or substitute Batman.
2) His relativince. Nightwing needs to start feeling relative and impactful to the greater dcu, like he has high status in the hero community.
3) His mission. Nightwing needs a stable long term direction. One the fits dicks character and allow nightwing to stand apart from batman. No batman lite. Something like nightwing is the globetrotting action hero and batman is the city based detective. Nightwing and Batman needs to be different concepts as different as Dick is form Bruce and not two different generations of the samething.
[QUOTE=Pohzee;5036474]I know its been discussed on here before to generally mixed reception, but the only thing that really comes to mind is taking on a sidekick (Damian or otherwise) or taking a mentorship role by expanding the Titans X-Men style.
[/QUOTE]
I like that direction for the Titans franchise, whether Dick is a part of it or not, but it would be very difficult to keep it from feeling derivative.
As for a sidekick, I really don't think the pushback against it is as well thought out as it pretends to be. Sure, a bad a writer or a writer who doesn't care about Dick could use the sidekick to do sideline Dick, but I don't think that's a greater risk than the same bad writer trying to spend time developing a new villain they like at the expense of Dick or phoning in their issues. Bad writers will write poorly.
As for candidates... I've always been partial to Lor Zod, or maybe a main universe Val Zod. Depower them a little, say to Superboy from YJ levels. Boom. Dick training a kryptonian... I dig it.
What about Dick gaining a partner? Not romantically but a crime-fighting one?
I'd suggest Flamebird because DC's not doing anything with her and we could have another former Titans member
[QUOTE=Tsukiakari1203;5037261]What about Dick gaining a partner? Not romantically but a crime-fighting one?
I'd suggest Flamebird because DC's not doing anything with her and we could have another former Titans member[/QUOTE]
Dick definitely works best when he has a partner of some sort. The Grayson series really benefited from this, first with Helena and later Tiger. I think that a sidekick/protege works best, but I think a partner who is a little bit closer to an equal would work as well. What is clear to me is that he needs to be the senior partner, either with a sidekick who is clearly his junior or with a partner who is capable in their own right but ultimately takes their lead from Dick.
[QUOTE=Tsukiakari1203;5037261]What about Dick gaining a partner? Not romantically but a crime-fighting one?
I'd suggest Flamebird because DC's not doing anything with her and we could have another former Titans member[/QUOTE]
lol he already has a crime fighting partner
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5036694]All dick really needs is for DC to focus on these 3 basic concepts for nightwing.[/QUOTE]
For the broad stroke basics, absolutely.
I also made a list of traits that every A-list property checks off, and DC doing something like that for Dick, seeing where his mythos is weak and putting in some work to fix that and fill in those blanks, would go a long way towards a self-sustaining Nightwing as well.
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;5037391]lol he already has a crime fighting partner[/QUOTE]You mean Batgirl?
[QUOTE=Digifiend;5038364]You mean Batgirl?[/QUOTE]
I think that's what they mean. She's not exactly a partner. They live in separate cities and are more occasional allies who are romantically involved.
Jumping back on the thread for the first time in forever. Any thing new with Dick? Is he still Ric at this point?
He did have Rose that he trained. However, we need to have a storyline where it changes locations. Yea he is living in Bludhaven but he needs to travel. Maybe if we take YJ. young heroes are being taken and he uses Haley Cirucs's as a cover
[QUOTE=byrd156;5038853]Jumping back on the thread for the first time in forever. Any thing new with Dick? Is he still Ric at this point?[/QUOTE]
Not really. He’s still Ric, but the end is near. For Ric and his book.
I hope they stop repeating this. What stories are you all hoping for? Also if we have to what should be the guidelines in Dick being used in Batman and other Batfam books?
Good ones.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5038970]Not really. He’s still Ric, but the end is near. For Ric and his book.[/QUOTE]No he's not. When Joker brainwashed him in the most recent issue of Nightwing, that was the end of Ric. Solicits indicate that Babs will undo what Joker did, and at the same time restore his true self. So yes, he'll be his old self soon!
Who wants a copy of Star Spangled Comics #65 from 1947, which has a solo Robin feature?
[url]https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dick-graysons-first-robin-solo-series-from-1947/[/url]
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5040983]I hope they stop repeating this. What stories are you all hoping for? Also if we have to what should be the guidelines in Dick being used in Batman and other Batfam books?[/QUOTE]
I don't know what kind of story I want because I haven't been around long enough to see the kind of story I like... from a solo Nightwing
Him hanging around Bruce, Jason, Damian and Titans I already know what role I like but that's him as a supporting cast/guest star/team member
Him alone, I've only liked one-two things:
The setup that he likes to be around people and close to the people he wants to help so he always chooses an apartment in a relatively unsafe neighborhood.
The setup that he owns Haly's Circus.
Both of those can happen at the same time. Stays in the apartment in a dubious neighborhood, work at the Circus.
Like I don't know what kind of niche or gimmick (story-wise) we should have with that setup. He has that secret agent thing but that's a different setup, and Dick has said he doesn't enjoy being a spy. He wants to be open and free while close to others, so the glamor and secrets of the secret agent world don't fit that more grounded setup.
Even as Nightwing he's very open. He's not like Bruce where he pretends to be different people between superhero and civilian. Nightwing and Dick Grayson are the same people.
Someone jokingly suggested once upon a time that they'd be satisfied with a story of Dick Grayson being a good neighbor mowing other people's lawn and that'd be enough and I admit he's charming enough to do that XD
Oh I like one other thing Seeley introduced: That he operates at twilight in comparison to Metropolis at daytime and Gotham at night
I guess he can be a secret agent as an additional job.
Daytime managing the circus
Twilight as Nightwing
Nighttime secret agent undercover
That's still the setup. To make a story, I need a conflict and a villain. So that's next.
I like that concept.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]98548[/ATTACH]
Nightwing Year One Deluxe Edition cover. I like how simple and clean it is.
Released June 30 apparently but I didn't pay attention
batman Legacy by Alex Ross
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb8kLnPXgAAcOek?format=jpg&name=4096x4096[/IMG]
[QUOTE=CPSparkles;5042307]batman Legacy by Alex Ross
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb8kLnPXgAAcOek?format=jpg&name=4096x4096[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I spy Oracle, I think that's Talia and Damian. Gorgeous art
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5041867]
Like I don't know what kind of niche or gimmick (story-wise) we should have with that setup. [/QUOTE]
One of the things I wanted to see with Dick was him dealing with where "superhuman" meets "human."
Thematically it parallels nicely with the "twilight" concept and keeps one foot in both sides of Dick's life and experience. So things like a black market auction selling off a sample of the Doomsday virus would give you that mix; you've got mobsters and corrupt businessmen and politicians, which is all very grounded and "real world" and Bat-like, trying to get their hands on a biological weapon that turns people into giant Superman killing monsters, which keeps Dick connected to the "Titans" side of his life. Conversely, Dick might discover that some big shot business guy is actually a telepath and that's how he manages to buy out all these other companies for pennies on the dollar, and Dick has to uncover and prove this via investigating the guy, interviewing prior victims, etc. So you'd again have some grounded, street level stuff mixed with the fantastical larger-than-life world of super humanity.
Dick working at Haly's or owning it or whatever also plays nicely into that; you can have performers who are superhuman....but only marginally. Like the circus "magician" is a telekinetic who can only move a couple pounds, the fortune teller is a precog but can only see maybe a couple days into the future. People like this aren't gonna put on a costume and go fight bank robbers; they're relatively grounded and "normal" but they're still more than just baseline human.
So basically nightwing should be written as a solo titans book and not just another bat book. I would love that.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5042574]One of the things I wanted to see with Dick was him dealing with where "superhuman" meets "human."
Thematically it parallels nicely with the "twilight" concept and keeps one foot in both sides of Dick's life and experience. So things like a black market auction selling off a sample of the Doomsday virus would give you that mix; you've got mobsters and corrupt businessmen and politicians, which is all very grounded and "real world" and Bat-like, trying to get their hands on a biological weapon that turns people into giant Superman killing monsters, which keeps Dick connected to the "Titans" side of his life. Conversely, Dick might discover that some big shot business guy is actually a telepath and that's how he manages to buy out all these other companies for pennies on the dollar, and Dick has to uncover and prove this via investigating the guy, interviewing prior victims, etc. So you'd again have some grounded, street level stuff mixed with the fantastical larger-than-life world of super humanity.
[/QUOTE]
Ah. So like in Under The Red Hood when Black Mask wanted to smuggle Kryptonite but Jason got to it, or recently where Blockbuster and Tiger Shark holds a supervillain party, or Raptor selling The Parliament's identity list to Kobra. Yeah I like those.
Okay since things generally go back and forth in mainline comics. What elsewhere story would you like with Nightwing?
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5042052][ATTACH=CONFIG]98548[/ATTACH]
Nightwing Year One Deluxe Edition cover. I like how simple and clean it is.
Released June 30 apparently but I didn't pay attention[/QUOTE]
I need a new copy. Will try to pick this up.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5046280]Okay since things generally go back and forth in mainline comics. What elsewhere story would you like with Nightwing?[/QUOTE]
Elseworld Grayson. Never a superhero. Always an agent. Doing it in Elseworld means it's gonna be free of "Nightwing would never do this" comments.
I hope.
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5046853]Elseworld Grayson. Never a superhero. Always an agent. Doing it in Elseworld means it's gonna be free of "Nightwing would never do this" comments.
I hope.[/QUOTE]
That honestly sounds sick. Would definitely read that.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5042732]So basically nightwing should be written as a solo titans book and not just another bat book. I would love that.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5042868]Ah. So like in Under The Red Hood when Black Mask wanted to smuggle Kryptonite but Jason got to it, or recently where Blockbuster and Tiger Shark holds a supervillain party, or Raptor selling The Parliament's identity list to Kobra. Yeah I like those.[/QUOTE]
Yes, basically.
At the very least, the most basic level, you're doing something no one else really is; putting a powerless vigilante up against super human threats, and not just low-end metas like Green Arrow fighting Brick, but legit powers who can blow up some serious sh*t. That's a fun spin that keeps Dick in the underdog role but also forces him to be at his most capable.
It'd force DC to write Nightwing like a utter badass, it'd provide a kind of book we don't see on the shelf very often, and it plays into both sides of Dick's life and character as a Bat and Titan.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5048391]Yes, basically.
At the very least, the most basic level, you're doing something no one else really is; putting a powerless vigilante up against super human threats, and not just low-end metas like Green Arrow fighting Brick, but legit powers who can blow up some serious sh*t. That's a fun spin that keeps Dick in the underdog role but also forces him to be at his most capable.
It'd force DC to write Nightwing like a utter badass, it'd provide a kind of book we don't see on the shelf very often, and it plays into both sides of Dick's life and character as a Bat and Titan.[/QUOTE]
Okay, if that's the concept then make him fight them openly. In the city. At twilight.
Because Red Hood when he's solo usually takes on the dark undercover job, and with Outlaws, they're basically Dark Titans.
So if Nightwing is solo Titans, let it be light and open. Fly in the sky.
Then when they go undercover, Red Hood will take the darker tone like he usually does, like being an enforcer, bodyguard, torturer, that kind of thing, and Dick takes the glamor part of being a secret agent like in Grayson, doing the seduction and shaking apple juice.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5048391]Yes, basically.
At the very least, the most basic level, you're doing something no one else really is; putting a powerless vigilante up against super human threats, and not just low-end metas like Green Arrow fighting Brick, but legit powers who can blow up some serious sh*t. That's a fun spin that keeps Dick in the underdog role but also forces him to be at his most capable.
It'd force DC to write Nightwing like a utter badass, it'd provide a kind of book we don't see on the shelf very often, and it plays into both sides of Dick's life and character as a Bat and Titan.[/QUOTE]
This is a simple premise that I can't believe isn't going on. You have a few one off metas/meta-type villains for non-powered heroes (Brick, Freeze, Bane) but no consistent roster of powers against non-powered.
I really want Dick to just live the superhero life. He could be in Gotham for a week, Metropolis for a day, Japan in an afternoon. He like the few other sidekicks have a unique position of growing up in a world of heroes, as heroes. His idea of a social life is drastically different than an average person. He could be off on a different planet working with heroes to save the universe, crashing on a couch in Atlantis, or defending the Watchtower from super-villains. He's a workaholic and a performer. I think of him kinda like stand up comedians, if they aren't working on material they are constantly hanging around each other or at comedy clubs just watching the craft. He lives and breathes this world, going back to some job or apartment doesn't seem like his thing anymore. That line of thinking worked with a Year One story or Dixon era of striking out on his own in a city where focusing on being his own person as an independent. But I think that line of thinking now mistakes dependence as a weakness or as a lesser form of living. He is a product of the world of DC not just Batman and I think it's only fitting for him to experience that world full time.
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5048427]Okay, if that's the concept then make him fight them openly. In the city. At twilight. [/QUOTE]
That's the idea. Dick is too bright and optimistic to always be in the shadows anyway.
[QUOTE=byrd156;5048428]This is a simple premise that I can't believe isn't going on. You have a few one off metas/meta-type villains for non-powered heroes (Brick, Freeze, Bane) but no consistent roster of powers against non-powered.[/QUOTE]
Right? And this is just one of the many brilliant ideas I have that'll never see print at DC. :p
[QUOTE=byrd156;5048428]This is a simple premise that I can't believe isn't going on. You have a few one off metas/meta-type villains for non-powered heroes (Brick, Freeze, Bane) but no consistent roster of powers against non-powered.
I really want Dick to just live the superhero life. He could be in Gotham for a week, Metropolis for a day, Japan in an afternoon. He like the few other sidekicks have a unique position of growing up in a world of heroes, as heroes. His idea of a social life is drastically different than an average person. He could be off on a different planet working with heroes to save the universe, crashing on a couch in Atlantis, or defending the Watchtower from super-villains. He's a workaholic and a performer. I think of him kinda like stand up comedians, if they aren't working on material they are constantly hanging around each other or at comedy clubs just watching the craft. He lives and breathes this world, going back to some job or apartment doesn't seem like his thing anymore. That line of thinking worked with a Year One story or Dixon era of striking out on his own in a city where focusing on being his own person as an independent. But I think that line of thinking now mistakes dependence as a weakness or as a lesser form of living. He is a product of the world of DC not just Batman and I think it's only fitting for him to experience that world full time.[/QUOTE]I agree with this but in order for something like this to happen (I know fans don't like this) nightwing will need more independence from batman. Nightwing can't be free for globetrotting if he has to be close to Gotham for events like joker war, bat team up and status quo shack ups see ric grayson.
There are alot of great ideas and possibilities for nightwing. But first thing nightwing needs is creative freedom. Just look at the Grayson run, dick was basically forced to be independent in grayson. Even if you don't like dick as a spy the series showed what dick could be when DC is forced to do something new and creative with dick.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5049322](I know fans don't like this)[/QUOTE]
I can't speak for everyone of course, but at least around here it seems like the majority opinion is that we *want* Dick to have more independence from Bruce. Most of us don't seem to want him to cut ties completely (he *is* a Bat, after all), but it seems most of us here want Dick on his own.
To make him more independent he needs more of his own rogues. Not only that but also his own cast. One thing I would love to see is him having his own big event. Sometimes going to the past helps. So he needs his own main villain. Needs his own money. He's working on the strip would be a good idea. He does need his own base. I mean if he is a bat. He should have his own version of the Batcave.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5049558]To make him more independent he needs more of his own rogues. Not only that but also his own cast. One thing I would love to see is him having his own big event. Sometimes going to the past helps. So he needs his own main villain. Needs his own money. He's working on the strip would be a good idea. He does need his own base. I mean if he is a bat. He should have his own version of the Batcave.[/QUOTE]
I feel like nightwing world is to small scale for a big event. It work in Grayson with the spy wars because he had that whole DCU spy sandbox to play with.
One of the recurring problems with the Nightwing series is DC ‘s interest in Dick having an occupation. This was temporarily resolved I Grayson, but Dick was soon a cabbie. He should be the most prominent, and glamorous, vigilante i the universe. Bruce should finance his operation as part of Batman, Inc....so Dick would earn his money, not be given it. He could be an independent contractor, not work for Bruce directly. A one man strike force, dropping by to help other heroes, kicking ass and taking names. The Bats can all operate in the dark...let Dick have his spotlight.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5049322]I agree with this but in order for something like this to happen (I know fans don't like this) nightwing will need more independence from batman. Nightwing can't be free for globetrotting if he has to be close to Gotham for events like joker war, bat team up and status quo shack ups see ric grayson.
There are alot of great ideas and possibilities for nightwing. But first thing nightwing needs is creative freedom. Just look at the Grayson run, dick was basically forced to be independent in grayson. Even if you don't like dick as a spy the series showed what dick could be when DC is forced to do something new and creative with dick.[/QUOTE]
He can. Both Grayson and Batwoman Rebirth were working on a mission for Batman, it's just that mission allows them to go around the world. Even when Dick was at The Parliament of Owl's HQ he can go back to Gotham in time for an event.
but the writers need to want to do it, and the department needs to inform them in advance that there's an event.
Going back to the fact that Dick likes to stay close to the people he wants to help, if he does choose Bludhaven then he will mainly stay there unless there's an event that pushes him out like Helena and Spyral returning.
This is why I which DC viewed nightwing more as a titan than a bat. Nightwing could and should have no limits, he should be both a leaguer and titan. Instead of batman inc.
Nightwing should be a leaguer that goes on one man strike missions and at the same time be the leader of the titans. Solo nightwing= leaguer one man global strike force. Team nightwing= titan and face of the next generation.
Nightwing is regarded as as one of if not the most connected hero in the DCU. This is the way to play into by make nightwing the Bridge between generations. This is the guy who was a hero before 90% of the adult/leaguers lean into that. Have solo Nightwing be a leaguer and team nightwing be a titan.
I watch alot of YJ and I basically a leaguer in the show in S2E1 we see nightwing at a JL briefing than those and leads his team on the mission. Same thing in season 3.
Let nightwing be the bridge between generations.