Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[QUOTE=Ascended;5006983]I wonder how many times Dick will come in to save the world with the "in case of emergency break glass" Justice League before he gets a regular seat at the table?

DC will never pull Batman from the League for Dick's sake (even though Bruce probably shouldn't be so involved with the team) but they could give Dick Ollie's spot. :p[/QUOTE]

Does that really happen much? I know there was Obsidian Age, but I can't think of any other examples.

(Forever Evil seemed to be going that way before plans changed, though - and No Justice [I]definitely[/I] was.)

Eeh I still think 75 is going to be the end of his current series, and that they are bringing him back only to end his series at the same time. And if they do relaunch his book it probably won't be till after Metal. So i think the prospect they found themselves looking at was that they were bringing Nightwing back only to have him disappear for 7 months. They kind of had to find something to fill in that time. Otherwise any fan favor they might get back from bringing him back would be all for nothing.

If they do relaunch his book. I wonder if they will actually do a good job. I also wonder why can't Dick just be placed in a different branch of the JL. If we look at YJ. Why not have him do a new branch. Like if we go with the Talon circus idea why not looking for other children like that?

Inject that Snyder detective Nightwing story where he surpasses Batman in some areas directly into my veins. That is my dream and shit.

[QUOTE=Grayson - The Dark Heir;5007295]Wait, what? This is news to me.[/QUOTE]You didn't read the [I]Year of the Villain: The Infected: Deathbringer[/I] one-shot six months ago? It starred the Titans team and showed how Donna became part of Batman Who Laughs' team. She mentions her conflicting origins in that issue.

[url]https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/The_Infected:_Deathbringer_Vol_1_1[/url]

[QUOTE=Godlike13;5007841]Eeh I still think 75 is going to be the end of his current series, and that they are bringing him back only to end his series at the same time. And if they do relaunch his book it probably won't be till after Metal. So i think the prospect they found themselves looking at was that they were bringing Nightwing back only to have him disappear for 7 months. They kind of had to find something to fill in that time. Otherwise any fan favor they might get back from bringing him back would be all for nothing.[/QUOTE]

Very possibly. But I haven't read the book for....two years now? How long has Ric been a thing? So if they do cancel the title and then wait until after Metal for the relaunch it's not like I'm losing anything I currently have.

I'd hope DC wouldn't squander Dick's return with a seven month hiatus, but expecting smart things from them is setting yourself up for disappointment.

Which writers do you guys think they should get? I mean the more I think about it. Dan Dido approved of these. He wanted Dick, so maybe this is a safe better someone good will be brought on

I wouldn't get your hopes up for Dick's role in Death Metal. The first Metal story should be a clear indication that Dick isn't someone that involved with it. It isn't really his story. Remember when people thought Dick's tie in issue with Hurt would lead to something? It didn't. Also they had Dick basically give up and wanted to leave Bruce for dead after Gotham fell and got punched in the face by Damian in the main Metal issue. Then he didn't appear in the series again until he was just shown dancing with some other DC heroes at the end while the actual important DC characters (the JL characters) went off to discuss important things.


Anyway, surprised it hasn't been posted yet but in a podcast Snyder talked about his upcoming plans about Death Metal and his Nightwing pitch.

[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/h7sb4h/scott_snyder_on_word_balloon_talks_continuity/[/url]

[I]"Snyder’s Nightwing has been pitched (with a high likelihood of it happening). Black Label. A mystery story that focuses on how different he is as a detective compared to Bruce, and how he’s also a better one in certain ways. “The most empathetic character in the family”. Shows his days as Robin, but shows the “possibilities” of where he could go later in life. The villain “is not a classic one”. Members of the bat-family pop up a few times."[/I]

So as expected it is out of DC's continuity and it will be in their Black Label line. That felt like the most obvious place it was going to be or some original graphic novel type of thing.

[QUOTE=Badou;5008199]I wouldn't get your hopes up for Dick's role in Death Metal. The first Metal story should be a clear indication that Dick isn't someone that involved with it. It isn't really his story. Remember when people thought Dick's tie in issue with Hurt would lead to something? It didn't. Also they had Dick basically give up and wanted to leave Bruce for dead after Gotham fell and got punched in the face by Damian in the main Metal issue. Then he didn't appear in the series again until he was just shown dancing with some other DC heroes at the end while the actual important DC characters (the JL characters) went off to discuss important things.[/quote]

Well, the Dr Hurt tie-in led to the four part "Resistance" tie-in the Metal across Nightwing, Teen Titans and Green Arrow. I've sometimes wondered if, given Nightwing's relatively strong supporting character status in the early issues of Metal and that tie-in story, his near absence from the end of the story was related to the same editorial decision that replace him with Green Arrow for "No Justice".

Were I a cynical man, I might suspect that the solicitation explicitly stating that the Justice League story will directly influence the ending of the event is a pre-emptive response to these kinds of reactions.

(We're also in a very different place for Nightwing now - for the first Metal, his tie-ins were mostly forgettable and seemed to intrude on Seeley's first Hurt story and prevent his second - and I'd rather he hadn't been involved at all. Now, even if it doesn't come to anything, five issues of Dick in the Justice League title with Lex Luthor in a story that contributes to the finale of Death Metal stands in contrast to... Well, Ric Grayson And The Nightwings. I'll take it!)


[quote]Anyway, surprised it hasn't been posted yet but in a podcast Snyder talked about his upcoming plans about Death Metal and his Nightwing pitch.

[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/h7sb4h/scott_snyder_on_word_balloon_talks_continuity/[/url]

[I]"Snyder’s Nightwing has been pitched (with a high likelihood of it happening). Black Label. A mystery story that focuses on how different he is as a detective compared to Bruce, and how he’s also a better one in certain ways. “The most empathetic character in the family”. Shows his days as Robin, but shows the “possibilities” of where he could go later in life. The villain “is not a classic one”. Members of the bat-family pop up a few times."[/I]

So as expected it is out of DC's continuity and it will be in their Black Label line. That felt like the most obvious place it was going to be or some original graphic novel type of thing.[/QUOTE]

That all sounds good to me!

[QUOTE=Badou;5008199]I wouldn't get your hopes up for Dick's role in Death Metal. The first Metal story should be a clear indication that Dick isn't someone that involved with it. It isn't really his story. Remember when people thought Dick's tie in issue with Hurt would lead to something? It didn't. Also they had Dick basically give up and wanted to leave Bruce for dead after Gotham fell and got punched in the face by Damian in the main Metal issue. Then he didn't appear in the series again until he was just shown dancing with some other DC heroes at the end while the actual important DC characters (the JL characters) went off to discuss important things.
[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't either, but I did note in the solicits that Nightwing is headlining Justice League in that shadow-dropped announcement of another Five-Issue tie-in to Death Metal. It has Hawkgirl and what looks like Lobo on the cover. I'd be curious to see if Cyborg, Starfire and Azrael return for that book because you know, they work pretty well with Nightwing.

Can't wait to see what other books join the "we don't want to overwhelm you with crossovers" line! I mean legitimately. It's a little funny to me at this point. Ultimately in this case there's not really any ongoings so strong that I care if they're interrupted by joining Death Metal, except maybe Morrison's Green Lantern, which I imagine either won't crossover at all ... or will have some kind of magical one-shot that does its own thing so well it doesn't matter that it's tying in.

[QUOTE=Badou;5008199]I wouldn't get your hopes up for Dick's role in Death Metal.[/QUOTE]

I don't expect him to have anything more than a cameo. But potentially leading a five issue arc in Justice League is still a hell of a lot more than he's gotten in recent years. If it happens and plays out in a way that treats him as even semi-competent.

It looks like it might be progress. It might even actually be progress. But we'll see what's on the actual page.

[QUOTE]Anyway, surprised it hasn't been posted yet but in a podcast Snyder talked about his upcoming plans about Death Metal and his Nightwing pitch.

So as expected it is out of DC's continuity and it will be in their Black Label line. That felt like the most obvious place it was going to be or some original graphic novel type of thing.[/QUOTE]

Works for me. I feel like this is probably going to be the DickBats story Snyder didn't get the chance to tell and Dick will be wearing the Bat cowl, so I'm fine with it being out of continuity and self-contained.

I'd have rather seen Snyder on the regular Nightwing title, with Dick in the Nightwing costume and all the proper memories and names attached, just because Dick could use such a high profile writer. But I'm also hoping to see DC push deeper into the OGN, self-contained stuff that doesn't rely on main continuity, so it's cool.

[QUOTE=K. Jones;5008387]I wouldn't either, but I did note in the solicits that Nightwing is headlining Justice League in that shadow-dropped announcement of another Five-Issue tie-in to Death Metal. It has Hawkgirl and what looks like Lobo on the cover. I'd be curious to see if Cyborg, Starfire and Azrael return for that book because you know, they work pretty well with Nightwing.
[/QUOTE]

That's not Lobo, that's just Liam Sharp drawing Nightwing lmao. After Jon Snow, this is a bit of a downgrade, but I guess a Conan the Barbarian look isn't the worst possible choice for Dick. This "new" JL is looking like Dick and the stragglers of the various Leagues, so Kendra and Bobo so far, and would leave the door open to Vic, Kory, and anyone else in the JLO book.

[QUOTE=Digifiend;5006528]Shows don't cause comic pushes.

Arrow - we didn't suddenly get multiple Canaries in the comics.
Flash - Vibe has been totally AWOL in Rebirth, and I think the same goes for Elongated Man?
Legends of Tomorrow - this team doesn't exist in the comics at all.
Supergirl - when was the last time comics Kara interacted with Martian Manhunter? Also, her adoptive sister doesn't exist in the comics.
Superman & Lois - they have two sons, one of whom doesn't exist in the comics.
Swamp Thing - didn't get a comic at the time the show was released.[/QUOTE]

Big difference is that Slade and Dick have history, and a lot of it. The success of the show could easily lead to a push in the comics, or if they do a push it could be completely unrelated.

Or its just a few comic pages and that'll be the extent of Slade/Dick in this crossover.

True Slade can be Dick's archenemy. Like Slade was paid to kill DIck but it doesn't work out. In a sense, Slade without being paid decides to kill Dick himself.

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5008810]True Slade can be Dick's archenemy. Like Slade was paid to kill DIck but it doesn't work out. In a sense, Slade without being paid decides to kill Dick himself.[/QUOTE]

Things got personal between Slade and Dick in Post Crisis because when Dick went undercover to get rid of the mob from Bludhaven, he's also tasked to train Deathstroke's daughter Rose. He did, but also instilled some morals into her, which he didn't like, and as revenge, when he was in Villains United, dropped Chemo to nuke Bludhaven. Slade was also on board when hired by Talia to control Damian through the chip in his spine to kill Dick.

But that's only the latest of Slade's kids that affected by their relationship with Dick.

Before that, Slade respects Dick for old time's sake. When he was hired to kill Bludhaven good cop Amy Rossbach, he dropped by Dick's place to give him a fair chance to stop him. He asked what does it take to get Dick out of the way, and Dick challenged to kill him, which Slade didn't want to do if he doesn't have to.

On the other hand, Rebirth Slade was the one asking Dick to teach Rose some morals so she doesn't turn out like him.

In the show Titans, Slade promised to stop hunting Titans for his son's Jericho's death as long as Titans disbanded. Jericho died protecting Dick from Slade. In the comics, Jericho became Dick's friend and a Titans (before he turned evil but we don't talk about that).

In the comics, Slade's enmity with the Titans stemmed from his son Grant's death, but how it ended depends. In Rebirth, he promised he'll let go of Titans if Dick teaches Rose.

So which Slade do you want to use? The one who cares about his daughter's moral or not? How much he cares about his kids and how Dick relates to them (and he relates to all of them one way or another), determines how much he makes things personal with Dick.

[QUOTE=Badou;5008199]

Anyway, surprised it hasn't been posted yet but in a podcast Snyder talked about his upcoming plans about Death Metal and his Nightwing pitch.

[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/h7sb4h/scott_snyder_on_word_balloon_talks_continuity/[/url]

[I]"Snyder’s Nightwing has been pitched (with a high likelihood of it happening). Black Label. A mystery story that focuses on how different he is as a detective compared to Bruce, and how he’s also a better one in certain ways. “The most empathetic character in the family”. Shows his days as Robin, but shows the “possibilities” of where he could go later in life. The villain “is not a classic one”. Members of the bat-family pop up a few times."[/I]

So as expected it is out of DC's continuity and it will be in their Black Label line. That felt like the most obvious place it was going to be or some original graphic novel type of thing.[/QUOTE]

This is good. While I like Snyder for the most part, on his other part he can be controversial. Zero Year, Bruce's brother, The Court, and Haly's Circus. Experimenting in Black Label first is the right way to do, and omigosh have I not been suggesting they're doing it this way the past year instead of making controversial decisions in the mainline. Then, if it's successful and people like it, it can be applied in the mainline.

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5008880]Things got personal between Slade and Dick in Post Crisis because when Dick went undercover to get rid of the mob from Bludhaven, he's also tasked to train Deathstroke's daughter Rose. He did, but also instilled some morals into her, which he didn't like, and as revenge, when he was in Villains United, dropped Chemo to nuke Bludhaven. Slade was also on board when hired by Talia to control Damian through the chip in his spine to kill Dick.

But that's only the latest of Slade's kids that affected by their relationship with Dick.

Before that, Slade respects Dick for old time's sake. When he was hired to kill Bludhaven good cop Amy Rossbach, he dropped by Dick's place to give him a fair chance to stop him. He asked what does it take to get Dick out of the way, and Dick challenged to kill him, which Slade didn't want to do if he doesn't have to.

On the other hand, Rebirth Slade was the one asking Dick to teach Rose some morals so she doesn't turn out like him.

In the show Titans, Slade promised to stop hunting Titans for his son's Jericho's death as long as Titans disbanded. Jericho died protecting Dick from Slade. In the comics, Jericho became Dick's friend and a Titans (before he turned evil but we don't talk about that).

In the comics, Slade's enmity with the Titans stemmed from his son Grant's death, but how it ended depends. In Rebirth, he promised he'll let go of Titans if Dick teaches Rose.

So which Slade do you want to use? The one who cares about his daughter's moral or not? How much he cares about his kids and how Dick relates to them (and he relates to all of them one way or another), determines how much he makes things personal with Dick.[/QUOTE]


I mean Why not have him not care about his kids. He had used Terra to get to the Titans. So that's why I feel like it wouldn't make sense.

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5008882]This is good. While I like Snyder for the most part, on his other part he can be controversial. Zero Year, Bruce's brother, The Court, and Haly's Circus. Experimenting in Black Label first is the right way to do, and omigosh have I not been suggesting they're doing it this way the past year instead of making controversial decisions in the mainline. Then, if it's successful and people like it, it can be applied in the mainline.[/QUOTE]

Plus, a neutral continuity Black Label thing is something that can be revisited every couple of years as and when the writer wants - whereas for the most part, and perfectly correctly, once a writer leaves the monthly title they're gone.

It's a good point about continuity, too.

Nightwing Annual 3 Preview


[url]https://comic-watch.com/news/sneak-peek-preview-dc-comics-nightwing-annual-3[/url]

Yup, if Johns's Three Joker's story can be fitted into continuity, I hope Snyder's Nightwing story can too.

[QUOTE=Lazurus33;5009707]Nightwing Annual 3 Preview


[url]https://comic-watch.com/news/sneak-peek-preview-dc-comics-nightwing-annual-3[/url][/QUOTE]

We get stores that are hey this was eighteen months ago, but time and age stays irrelevant????

Also I can’t belive its time for the next annual already

Wait, so the Ric era lasted [B]a year[/B] in-universe? Saying six months ago would've made sense.

I hope after this Dick gets a better team. Any hints of who the new creative team is?

[QUOTE=Digifiend;5011503]Wait, so the Ric era lasted [B]a year[/B] in-universe? Saying six months ago would've made sense.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, 364 1/2 days too many.

Am I the only one who likes the annual? Everyone I know hates it. Twitter has been a cesspool the past days. Tumblr can't think for themselves. Feels bad man.

[QUOTE=Digifiend;5011503]Wait, so the Ric era lasted [B]a year[/B] in-universe? Saying six months ago would've made sense.[/QUOTE]

Do we know for sure the events of the annual take place right before he got shot?

Yeah. The issue was a flashback. It happened 18 months ago.

So at first Zack Synder said Jason was the robin that was killed but now he said it's Dick. Maybe for the better

[QUOTE=Digifiend;5011503]Wait, so the Ric era lasted [B]a year[/B] in-universe? Saying six months ago would've made sense.[/QUOTE]

Dates and numbers in comics are more reminders for us the readers than ever actually possible or canon. As a short-hand for us in the real world it is pretty effective, but it's a sure sign that all dates and passage in time "mentioned" by a writer in a comic is just arbitrary. Even when it's part of the plot! Like, Long Halloween takes place in "Year Two" of Batman's Batmanning and actually features all of the Holidays. Trying to actually fit it into a real timeline causes more problems than it fixes to even think about. Like every year there's been some Batman Christmas Comic since 1940. But do we really believe that Batman has, during his crime-fighting career, celebrated Christmas 80 times?

What I'm trying to say? The narrator says 18 months ago, and what it basically really means is "a few weeks back".

Or rather, I'm not sure that we're even meant to find it believable in-story.

I read the Annual. I thought it was the best of what Jurgens has really put out since he picked up this thankless task. I've stuck with Nightwing through these "Ric" storylines not out of slavish devotion because I'm a huge Nightwing fan, but more because I kind of want to document and be aware of the specifics of how something like this goes down and plays out. I've seen it before in comics when a series loses its footing then becomes the victim of another writer's story and gets stuck in hell, but never quite this clearly on a book that sells as well as Nightwing.

I've historically liked Dick coming up against your sophisticated winged jet armor type bird themed mech guys. Batman always has Bat-Versions of these suits, too. There was the OYL Raptor who also fit this bill. I like that they're a bit of a freelance agency who can go either way storywise. I thought the boss's come-ons were overly strong in a way that's pretty off-putting in this day and age, which actually strikes a nice bit of adventure story sophistication or tension as it juggles Dick's good nature with his sex appeal, and could either tip her off as a villain (she crosses boundaries pretty easily) but could just as easily be used for the swerve because as we all know from the internet ... Dick is a really hot guy and femme fatales jump. They could go multiple routes there into noir plot-lines or spy/espionage plot-lines or whatever other kind of trope or push. Not that they will, most of the contents of Jurgens' run seem like they're not exactly ever going to go anywhere.

It was also nice to see a functional basic "Nightwing, who works in Bludhaven, and Blockbuster is doing things" story existing in the Dixon Paradigm. And the art was decent, with dynamism in the flying and armor, everyone looked right, and what's-her-boss's sexual attraction to Dick was obvious enough that it colors her character choices. The Condor crew are as uninspired as virtually every Condor-themed character in the history of the DCU, and their mech-suits aren't very artful to the point where even the bare modicum of Nightwing-themed color on one of those suits made it pop. Plus we all know Bruce has a closet full of Nightwing-Themed mech-suits in the Bat-Cave just waiting for whatever 1950s Revival Adventure comes along that takes him and Dick to outer space to battle Alien Bat-Men.

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5012175]So at first Zack Synder said Jason was the robin that was killed but now he said it's Dick. Maybe for the better[/QUOTE]

He wants carrie kelly robin. i want to barf
[IMG]llhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eapsd8cWoAApW8J?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]

The Annual was such a poor throwback to old Nightwing, but the worse parts. Like those times some unnamed newbie would come into it and make Nightwing look like shit. Reminded me of Wolfmans run with Vigilante. Oh and classic Blockbuster is back as if Seeley’s run, or the end of Dixon's for that matter never happened. The writing here is just bad. The first part of it invalidates everything they then have Nightwing do and say after. Which they can not be unaware of. At one point it has him start bragging how good he is as if the first part of the book where he basically gets killed by 2 gloried goons didn’t just happen. Which is moronic, and so it makes Dick look like a conceited moron who lives in a glass house.

They need to get Jurgans off this book. This is really bad. There is nothing original. It leans on perceived strengths of yesteryear but has no ambition of its own, while takes for granted its lead to introduce some uninteresting concept that does nothing for its lead. Very frustrating. It was like 20 years since the middle of Dixon’s run never happened or something.

Omg they're bringing back long-haired ponytail super buff Dick from the 90s for a Barbarian Nightwing look in Death Metal I kinda dig this type of fanservice because it fits the setting and everyone in this book looks outlandish as heck

[ATTACH=CONFIG]97675[/ATTACH]

question does Nick have his own version of the bat boomerang?

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5013088]Omg they're bringing back long-haired ponytail super buff Dick from the 90s for a Barbarian Nightwing look in Death Metal I kinda dig this type of fanservice because it fits the setting and everyone in this book looks outlandish as heck
[/QUOTE]

I'm loving all the re-designs for Metal. So over the top and ridiculous, like old 80's-90's music videos! :) Rock and metal are my musical genres of choice, so I got a real soft spot for this.

Dick looks like he just got back from some Norwegian death metal concert here, or maybe Heilung (amazing folk-metal viking band).

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5013092]question does Nick have his own version of the bat boomerang?[/QUOTE]
Wingdings.

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5013092]question does Nick have his own version of the bat boomerang?[/QUOTE]

The classic one looks closer to a Batarang
[ATTACH=CONFIG]97677[/ATTACH]

I think there's another one that looks like his book logo

The New 52 one is more like a throwing knives

The annual was fine but the memory crystal (again) is the most infamous and ridiculous device which has ever been created.

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5013172]The classic one looks closer to a Batarang
[ATTACH=CONFIG]97677[/ATTACH]

I think there's another one that looks like his book logo

The New 52 one is more like a throwing knives[/QUOTE]

Where does he keep them? I figured like there is a secret compact.

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5013771]Where does he keep them? I figured like there is a secret compact.[/QUOTE]

In The New 52 one, his gloves are armored with compartments for various gadgets.

I don't remember with that particular costume, but there's another costume where there's a circle of Utility-Belt-like cylinders around the hem of his gloves and boots

This is a good close up. There are those pockets
[ATTACH=CONFIG]97692[/ATTACH]

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5013837]In The New 52 one, his gloves are armored with compartments for various gadgets.

I don't remember with that particular costume, but there's another costume where there's a circle of Utility-Belt-like cylinders around the hem of his gloves and boots

This is a good close up. There are those pockets
[ATTACH=CONFIG]97692[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]

His current one doesn't have these. I wish he had this "arm-pockets" instead of those weird belts.