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[QUOTE=Konja7;5091035]The question is whether he will mantain his solo, which seems pretty uncertain. It seems that only the big names have a chance.[/QUOTE]Dick, Barbara and jason are afaik the only characaters apart from the big 6 that managed to keep their books going since flashpoint, so if DC is going to keep some smaller characters around they are probably the ones with the highest chance.
[QUOTE=Aahz;5091059]Dick, Barbara and jason are afaik the only characaters apart from the big 6 that managed to keep their books going since flashpoint, so if DC is going to keep some smaller characters around they are probably the ones with the highest chance.[/QUOTE]
Batgirl ends in October along with Batman and the Outsiders.
[QUOTE=DurararaFTW;5091071]Batgirl ends in October along with Batman and the Outsiders.[/QUOTE]I know, but with more that 100 issues since flashpoint she has imo still a better chance to get a new book then most other characters.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5089571]I didn't see it, thanks for sharing. Doesn't tell us much though. Ross drew Starfire and it's tied to some announcement. Could be damn near anything; Justice League Odyssey,
Yeah, but solicits are all screwed up already. We normally get those months in advance, but we got August solicits in mid-July. Between the pandemic and the new distributors and all the 5G plans getting changed/dropped/whatever at the last minute.....November solicits might not actually hit until December. :p[/QUOTE]Definitely not Odyssey. It finishes next month.
And those mid-July solicits were for October, which is normal. It's just that the majority of books so far since they came back from shutdown have been resolicits from April-June instead of previously unannounced comics.
[QUOTE=Konja7;5091035]As you say, Dick's got good odds that he will stock around (honestly, he could appear in OGN too).
The question is whether he will mantain his solo, which seems pretty uncertain. It seems that only the big names have a chance.
Now, I wouldn't be surprised he end up in a Titans book (after all, Titans is popular in other media). Or a "Bat-family" book.[/QUOTE]
The solo is really the only thing that worries me. Dick is absolutely too big to be dropped completely across the board. He could end up in a digital title, or get the occasional OGN, or stay in the main line as part of a Titans or Batfam title, as you say. Or he could get several of those at the same time, I think Nightwing has a high enough profile they could get away with a few different projects running at once; Nightwing *is* fairly well known outside the LCS after all. Far from a global icon, but he's been in plenty of cartoons, video games, and shows and he's far from a unknown.
The only real question is whether his monthly, direct market solo sticks around. I think they're saying the comics line will be cut by 40%....but that isn't very clear; does that include every book DC makes, including imprints and mini's? They're dropping Black Label, does that count towards the 40%? Or are they talking only about the regular ongoing titles? Whatever floppy books are left over, will DC try to cram as many faces in those titles as possible, turning most of their books into team/ensemble titles, or will they double down and focus on the individual A-list characters and leave the B- and C-listers to other formats?
Im concerned about Nightwing's future, and its sad people lost their job, but DC needed to retool. I felt like they were running around like a chicken with no head.
They're not cutting Black Label, they seem to be cutting down on imprints. Black Label books are OGNs, which is seemingly the focus for DC moving forward (and no wonder, focusing on the direct market just seems like a bad business decision at this point, and it seems that's what all these layoffs is about as terrible as it is for the people affected), so I would expect to see them being published all together. Since Black Label might not be its own imprint anymore, you wouldn't really need the staff who worked under it anymore (again, that's a terrible situation for staff and I don't want to make light of that).
Not sure where the 40% reduction comes from, that's not been mentioned in anything I've read so far. Dick will probably continue to appear in Digital stuff like Gotham Knights every once in a while and continue to star in the Titans Together series, but probably not much else except whatever OGNs we get. The main book might get through any type of line reduction as a Batman IP, but that's an issue of its own since he'll become even further swamped in Batman's oozing shadow.
Honestly, as a DC reader, and I think I've said this before on here, but the most interesting DC content is not coming from the mainline books and hasn't for several years now. The best Raven is Teen Titans: Raven, the best Superman is Superman Smashes the Klan, etc. There's a reason stuff like Injustice and DCeased sell so well, same goes for the more disconnected events like Metal and Death Metal. On top of that, DC itself hasn't really delivered on their promises for more diverse books, like we're still waiting on Milestone. So honestly, this kind of reduction in direct market output isn't going to affect me much. In fact, you could say the reduction of the line (not the work force, of course) is a consequence of doing wrong by characters like Dick and not meeting reader expectations in general. Or it's just that the direct market isn't really conducive to any kind of growth and Batman and Superman have eaten up all the market share DC ever had.
Whatever happens, I think the DC Comics we end up with is going to be a more honest version of what we have right now, i.e. even more about the A-list IPs than they are now.
I'm not even sure I *did* see "40% cuts." I caught all this fairly late last night, when I'm usually reading news articles (like, real news; politics and pandemics and science, etc). So I was tired and just skimming nerd articles as I found them. For all I know, I imagined the 40% figure, or it was a comment from a fellow poster. Or maybe you just haven't seen the article I came across yet. :p Supposedly we'll get word on what DC's two year plan entails soon, so we'll know for sure then.
Anyway, I agree that the best DC is found in the out-of-continuity stuff and I'm glad they seem to be focusing on new markets instead of trying to revive the direct market (as much as I love my LCS, it isn't a optimized business model). I don't actually think this will personally impact me too deeply; they've cancelled a lot of my favorite books like Terrifics already, and other than a few titles like Legion or Young Justice most of my remaining pull list is just the big characters like Clark and Diana. And I already read several books like Flash in trade and OGN's like Lost Carnival anyway.
Really my biggest concerns are where Dick will land (he'll be somewhere, but will it be a regular solo?), what will happen to Naomi season 2, and whether Cyborg, Terrific, and Wally will find a home with regular appearances.
Dick's had a ongoing solo book since nearly the mid 90s. Only Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and maybe Green Lantern have had that. Although with Flash and GL they had periods of different lead characters. So I would be a little surprised if he loses his solo, but who knows. His character hasn't really felt that important in quite a while with his solo book just going through the motions of doing the bare minimum.
If the Snyder book happens I can see them maybe not wanting to have the Snyder book and also a solo book going on at the same time even if Snyder's book is its own thing.
Oh yeah that Snyder book might end up never happen if they're cutting cost
Dick, in my opinion, is just one of those characters that we shouldn't worry about at all. Even if they completely close his ongoing, he will either be in Batman or in the Titans, no one will touch them for sure, he'll be there.
Tim, Stephanie and Cassandra are in huge danger. Dick, Damian and Jason will be safe anyway.
[QUOTE=Morgoth;5092080]Dick, in my opinion, is just one of those characters that we shouldn't worry about at all. Even if they completely close his ongoing, he will either be in Batman or in the Titans, no one will touch them for sure, he'll be there.
Tim, Stephanie and Cassandra are in huge danger. Dick, Damian and Jason will be safe anyway.[/QUOTE]
Titans doesn't have an ongoing at the moment, Young Justice does. And Damian is gonna stop being Robin for at least a while soon.
Yeah, solicits for both Detective Comics and Teen Titans indicate Damian is going rogue, and Batman, the remaining Titans, and Superboy (who's guesting in TT) will have to deal with it.
[QUOTE=DurararaFTW;5092099]Titans doesn't have an ongoing at the moment, Young Justice does. And Damian is gonna stop being Robin for at least a while soon.[/QUOTE]
I really doubt Young Justice comic will survive for much longer. Its reception isn't really good.
Currently, there is Titans Together comic in digital (Dick and Jason appears there). The name Titans is pretty strong, so it could return.
[QUOTE=Digifiend;5092112]Yeah, solicits for both Detective Comics and Teen Titans indicate Damian is going rogue, and Batman, the remaining Titans, and Superboy (who's guesting in TT) will have to deal with it.[/QUOTE]
I said this in other threads, you can't trust solicitations.
The concept of the "son of Batman" is pretty popular and profitable, so I don't think they really want him to go rogue.
[QUOTE=Konja7;5092167]I really doubt Young Justice comic will survive for much longer. Its reception isn't really good.[/QUOTE]Depends on what happens with the Bendis Imprint, Young Justice is kind of it's flag ship book so it will probably continue as long as this Imprint.
Given the success of the cartoon and its ability to showcase multiple characters, I'd imagine YJ has decent odds of surviving, but it'll almost certainly get a new creative team, and probably a change in direction that brings it closer to the show.
Damian might stop being Robin for a minute, but that's a storyline, he'll be back in the cape before long I'm sure (I'm just assuming). "Robin, the son of Batman" is too good a concept to throw away, especially if DC is going to start trying to appeal to a wider audience than the LCS crowd.
And yeah, Dick's not going anywhere and I doubt anyone is really worried about him disappearing into limbo. I'm not convinced his solo is safe but the character won't go away completely.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5091411]Im concerned about Nightwing's future, and its sad people lost their job, but DC needed to retool. I felt like they were running around like a chicken with no head.[/QUOTE]
Tv and movie characters will proably be prioritized
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;5092699]Tv and movie characters will proably be prioritized[/QUOTE]
Oh good. He's on TV.
If dc is reducing the line I dont think titans will be around in the mainline because I believe dc will go with teen titans instead of titans.
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5092037]Oh yeah that Snyder book might end up never happen if they're cutting cost[/QUOTE]
Nah that won't happen, DC's focus is on OGNs so if anything, the Nightwing OGN would be prioritized over the mainline book.
[QUOTE=Morgoth;5092080]Dick, in my opinion, is just one of those characters that we shouldn't worry about at all. Even if they completely close his ongoing, he will either be in Batman or in the Titans, no one will touch them for sure, he'll be there.[/QUOTE]
Well that's sort of the issue isn't it? Nightwing's solo is not guaranteed to ever be good if it doesn't get cut since we've seen how they treat the book under regular circumstances, but if it does get cut, he'd end up in Batman stuff which is arguably worse than if he was stuck in a mediocre solo. A Titans book is something I wouldn't mind, but I don't see it as likely and that's not even getting to whether the book would be good or not.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5093066]If dc is reducing the line I don't think titans will be around in the mainline because I believe dc will go with teen titans instead of titans.[/QUOTE]
The easiest way is to merge them all under one title since the most popular name is TT but the most popular cast are in Titans, basically making it like the Young Justice TV with the older ones acting as a mentor
The selling cast would be Nightwing, Starfire, Beast Boy, Cyborg, and Raven with Donna, Wally, Wallace, Damian, Tim, Jason, Kon, Cassie, and Bart following.
[QUOTE=Grayson - The Dark Heir;5093093]Well that's sort of the issue isn't it? Nightwing's solo is not guaranteed to ever be good if it doesn't get cut since we've seen how they treat the book under regular circumstances, but if it does get cut, he'd end up in Batman stuff which is arguably worse than if he was stuck in a mediocre solo. A Titans book is something I wouldn't mind, but I don't see it as likely and that's not even getting to whether the book would be good or not.[/QUOTE]
Well, presumably after the culling only the best creators will be left, perhaps reinforced with new writers from outside the comic industry. In theory we'll be left with a smaller, but more skillful, talent pool. So if Dick's solo survives, he might still get the bottom of the creative barrel, but instead of that being someone like Lobdell, it'd be someone like, I dunno, Williamson. So we'd be way better off than we are now if that happens.
If Dick loses the solo and ends up in a Bat book, then that'll just continue the path of "adult sidekick" DC has put him on. I think this is the worst case scenario, as Dick won't ever get to drive a narrative of his own and will be completely at the mercy of Bruce's story. We've seen where that takes us and none of us want to repeat it.
Third obvious option is Dick being put into a ensemble team book, probably a Titans of some sort, maybe a Batfam title, maybe something brand new. I'd prefer this over a Batman book, as a ensemble team will (if written well) give equal attention to the entire roster and everyone will get their moments to shine, their own subplots, etc. It's not nearly as preferable as a solo, but better than being a sidekick in a Bat book.
A little bit of good news for y'all.
Joshua Williamson said his Justice League story from Death Metal will be from Nightwing point of view. Some good tidbits in this interview here.
[url]https://www.gamesradar.com/inside-the-nightwing-starfire-and-cyborg-reunion-with-justice-league-and-death-metal/[/url]
[QUOTE=Drako;5093421]A little bit of good news for y'all.
Joshua Williamson said his Justice League story from Death Metal will be from Nightwing point of view. Some good tidbits in this interview here.
[url]https://www.gamesradar.com/inside-the-nightwing-starfire-and-cyborg-reunion-with-justice-league-and-death-metal/[/url][/QUOTE]
Haven't read that, but I was just from DC's website and there are some covers and solicits
[ATTACH=CONFIG]99701[/ATTACH]
“Doom Metal” part two of five storms the stage in this essential Dark Nights: Death Metal tie-in! It’s the Titans reunion you've been clamoring for when Starfire and Cyborg join Nightwing in this twisted Justice League. The team is hell-bent for Brimstone Bay to free the Legion of Doom, but what horrors and desires will the Valley of Starros reveal to them—and who or what is the villain named Mindhunter?
JUSTICE LEAGUE #54, written by JOSHUA WILLIAMSON, art by XERMANICO, cover by LIAM SHARP, variant cover by HOWARD PORTER, Wonder Woman 1984 variant cover by JIM LEE and SCOTT WILLIAMS, ON SALE 10/6/20.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]99702[/ATTACH]
The motley crew of “Doom Metal” sets sail for the cliffs of insanity, captained by Nightwing—or so he thinks! The team fractures, and Detective Chimp reveals the horrible secret wish in his heart. And speaking of hearts, Hawkgirl will stop at nothing to find Martian Manhunter, even if she jeopardizes the League’s mission and their souls. Part three of this five-issue tie-in to Dark Nights: Death Metal features the debut of a villain so huge he dwarfs all hope. Enter the Omega Knight.
JUSTICE LEAGUE #55, written by JOSHUA WILLIAMSON, art by ROBSON ROCHA and DANIEL HENRIQUES, cover by LIAM SHARP, variant cover by SIMONE BIANCHI, ON SALE 10/20/20.
That's the last Nightwing cover.
The last two issues focus on Hawkgirl, MM, Omega Knight and Luthor.
My kingdom for Williamson and Mora to be the next creators on Nightwing.
Those covers remind me of that world the Titans visit in TTGO! The Night Begins to Shine and all that.
Off topic, but it makes me super sad that I know what Cyborg's favorite foods and music are in a kids' cartoon, but the comics don't come close to that level of characterization. In, what, the DCYOU series we find out Vic likes the blues and it's never mentioned again, yet I think I've caught Vic humming that song from BER on the show with no direct reference to it at all.
[QUOTE=Drako;5093421]A little bit of good news for y'all.
Joshua Williamson said his Justice League story from Death Metal will be from Nightwing point of view. Some good tidbits in this interview here.
[url]https://www.gamesradar.com/inside-the-nightwing-starfire-and-cyborg-reunion-with-justice-league-and-death-metal/[/url][/QUOTE]
Talking about Dark Martian Manhunter and his powers, they said with Nightwing he'd be like 'You're still feeling like you messed up and lost your memory for a while.'
Hnnnnnnnnng
Ric should be looked at as a failure, if it’s looked at again at all. Dick can’t exactly call out the creators for it so he is going to have to bear that burden.
It was one of the lowest points in his existence, they could either ignore it or reflect it as such. Though I guess they could try and pull a Lobdell and push it back onto the readers. But that kind of out of touch ignorance and tact is part of why Ric turned out like it did.
"There's a scene where it's the team that they're crossing the Valley of Starros, and it gives an opportunity for Cyborg, Nightwing, and Starfire to just talk for a moment, to catch up with each other. They've all gone into these crazy changes. If you think about what they've all gone through. All the things Cyborg and Starfire went through in Justice League Odyssey, and all the things that Nightwing went through in his own book.
All these really big changes and I wanted all of them to come together and talk about that and realize that about each other."
If the "Ric" storyline isn't going to be ignored this is the next best thing. Looking forward to Dick, Kory and Vic interacting again.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5093404]Well, presumably after the culling only the best creators will be left, perhaps reinforced with new writers from outside the comic industry. In theory we'll be left with a smaller, but more skillful, talent pool. So if Dick's solo survives, he might still get the bottom of the creative barrel, but instead of that being someone like Lobdell, it'd be someone like, I dunno, Williamson. So we'd be way better off than we are now if that happens.
If Dick loses the solo and ends up in a Bat book, then that'll just continue the path of "adult sidekick" DC has put him on. I think this is the worst case scenario, as Dick won't ever get to drive a narrative of his own and will be completely at the mercy of Bruce's story. We've seen where that takes us and none of us want to repeat it.
Third obvious option is Dick being put into a ensemble team book, probably a Titans of some sort, maybe a Batfam title, maybe something brand new. I'd prefer this over a Batman book, as a ensemble team will (if written well) give equal attention to the entire roster and everyone will get their moments to shine, their own subplots, etc. It's not nearly as preferable as a solo, but better than being a sidekick in a Bat book.[/QUOTE]If nightwing loss his solo and is stuck between a supporting character in batman or tec or a teen titan. That being suck between a rock and a hard place.
Maybe it's time to think outside of the box a little. The batfamily is so bloated let cass, kate or Duke be the support characters in batman. Have nightwing moved to wonder woman or superman as a support character at less then maybe no more adult sidekick.
But I believe nightwing will keep his solo.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5093894]If nightwing loss his solo and is stuck between a supporting character in batman or tec or a teen titan. That being suck between a rock and a hard place.
Maybe it's time to think outside of the box a little. The batfamily is so bloated let cass, kate or Duke be the support characters in batman. Have nightwing moved to wonder woman or superman as a support character at less then maybe no more adult sidekick.
But I believe nightwing will keep his solo.[/QUOTE]
It will likely be worse for Nightwing to be a support img character in Wonder Woman and Superman.
Wonder Woman is usually a mess with the supporting characters.
I also really doubt there is place for a non-superpowered hero in a Superman book.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5093404]Third obvious option is Dick being put into a ensemble team book, probably a Titans of some sort, maybe a Batfam title, maybe something brand new. [/QUOTE]If they are really going to shrink down their line up to the biggest IPs I doubt they will do a brand new team (and if they do it would be probably some kind of Justice League spin off).
[QUOTE=Konja7;5093900]It will likely be worse for Nightwing to be a support img character in Wonder Woman and Superman.
Wonder Woman is usually a mess with the supporting characters.
I also really doubt there is place for a non-superpowered hero in a Superman book.[/QUOTE]True but thats because most people don't give a crap about wonder woman supporting characters, there boring and underdeveloped but not nightwing. Hell the way most wonder woman fans talk about how they would what steve trevor to be is usually just a blonde dick grayson.
A non-superpowered super is basically what nightwing is as a titan.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5093952]True but thats because most people don't give a crap about wonder woman supporting characters, there boring and underdeveloped but not nightwing. Hell the way most wonder woman fans talk about how they would what steve trevor to be is usually just a blonde dick grayson.
A non-superpowered super is basically what nightwing is as a titan.[/QUOTE]
These wonder woman fans don't want a blonde Dick Grayson, they want Steve Trevor with certain personality traits.
Dick works as a non-superpowered hero in Titans, because he's the leader in the team. Obviously, he couldn't be this in Superman books.
Dick can't even be used like the "heart" in Superman books because there are already characters in that role (many times Superman himself).
Yeah, I love Nightwing and Superman interactions but ultimately they don't need each other the way other characters can be written to need either of them.
[QUOTE=Drako;5093421]A little bit of good news for y'all.
Joshua Williamson said his Justice League story from Death Metal will be from Nightwing point of view. Some good tidbits in this interview here.
[url]https://www.gamesradar.com/inside-the-nightwing-starfire-and-cyborg-reunion-with-justice-league-and-death-metal/[/url][/QUOTE]
[I]"You'll see, once you start the first few pages, you're going to see how much it's a Nightwing story."[/I] - yeah, it's nice to hear that it's not just A Story With Nightwing In It, but a proper Nightwing story. And although it's nice that Nightwing's "return" is being given such prominence in both the [I]Batman [/I]and [I]Justice League[/I] books, it's a shame that this whole period in his history isn't just being buried in a big, deep hole. Mind you, I'd be happy if "lost his memory for a bit" becomes how it's remembered - and the specifics of Ric, the Nightwings, the weird house-breaking stuff, Bea - just got forgotten.
And then we can go back to crossing our fingers that if Bendis keeps doing "Leviathan" stories, Dick can have the role in some of them that he really should have had from the start.
[QUOTE=Aahz;5093903]If they are really going to shrink down their line up to the biggest IPs I doubt they will do a brand new team (and if they do it would be probably some kind of Justice League spin off).[/QUOTE]
I mostly meant new for Dick. Granted, he's been on most of DC's big teams already but he could do something we've rarely seen. Maybe join the League or Outsiders again, maybe the JSA or (shudder) Squad.
I expect the publishing line will be *mostly* the Big Name franchises, but I think they'll probably have a few books that're more left field too. Even Rebirth, which was all about "getting back to basics" for the publishing line, had some titles that weren't established A-list, so perhaps there'll be a return of StormWatch or the Authority, or the Seven Soldiers of Victory or who knows what?
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5093098]The easiest way is to merge them all under one title since the most popular name is TT but the most popular cast are in Titans, basically making it like the Young Justice TV with the older ones acting as a mentor
The selling cast would be Nightwing, Starfire, Beast Boy, Cyborg, and Raven with Donna, Wally, Wallace, Damian, Tim, Jason, Kon, Cassie, and Bart following.[/QUOTE]
That roster will never happen, you have four out of five Robins (only Spoiler is missing), all three Kid Flashes, and both Wonder Girls.
[QUOTE=Aahz;5092195]Depends on what happens with the Bendis Imprint, Young Justice is kind of it's flag ship book so it will probably continue as long as this Imprint.[/QUOTE]I don't think YJ will last much longer either. The cover of #20 (shown on Bendis's Instagram) shows the whole team in a generic pose. Very much what you'd expect from a Final Issue. We'll know in two hours 15 minutes when the solicits are out.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5094292]I mostly meant new for Dick. Granted, he's been on most of DC's big teams already but he could do something we've rarely seen. Maybe join the League or Outsiders again, maybe the JSA or (shudder) Squad.[/QUOTE]I doubt that, JLA and JSA will probaly have realtivly classic line ups, I doubt that they will do Outsiders and Dick doesn't really fit on the Suicide Squad, I think for him it is Titans or some kind of Justice league B-team.
That would be my assumption too, I'm just saying they *could* do something different with him.
I'm sure Dick, if he ends up on a team again at all, will be on a League title or a Titans team. That's a safe bet, but we don't *know* he will, and with a big shake up like we seem to be getting, some characters might end up in some odd places just so they have somewhere to go at all.
I mean, if the line gets cut down to the bare basics, will there even be a League B-team at all? Hell, will there even be a Titans? Unless the current run is doing better than I think it is, that's a franchise that hasn't sold well in a long time, so will it's pedigree be enough to keep it around or will DC say "Well, we've only got X books now, do we have room for a title that's in the bottom half of our sales?"