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[QUOTE=Konja7;5207166]Zatanna was Bruce's love interest at some point. I don't think she would be the best option.[/QUOTE]
I agree completely. Ideally, two members of the same family should not date the same person. And I do ship him with Barbara, and wouldn't want magic to be a major part of his story, anyway. And I think it'd be better for Zee not to be mired in Bats.
Though, was she ever Batman's love interest in main-universe in continuity in the comics? I know she was in animated verse.
[QUOTE=Drako;5206909]Hey, look what made a comeback in today's issue of Tomasi's Detective Comics.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Q2Dynn1.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I like seeing Dick with his own gear.
[QUOTE=qwazer07;5207163]Don't read Batgirl. WASTE OF MONEY. I told you guys numerous times. Babs is a bad and boring love interest. Babs is someone who puts him down and holds him back. Our boy is meant to fly. Give him Zatanna. Please ;)[/QUOTE]
Wasn't Babs there watching over him all the while when he was in a coma? Bab's or [insert female character name] can be good and interesting if the writer wishes it.
Right now though I just need the title to focus on Dick fully returning to his old self and prefer DC focus on stories that build up the character and his relationships[not romantic].
DC should be putting effort into building a stable Nightwing support staff. Shipping can come later.
[QUOTE=qwazer07;5207163]Don't read Batgirl. WASTE OF MONEY. I told you guys numerous times. Babs is a bad and boring love interest. Babs is someone who puts him down and holds him back. Our boy is meant to fly. Give him Zatanna. Please ;)[/QUOTE]
Yeah I like dick and babs as friends but not love interest. Because as a love interest babs locks dick into Gotham and in Gotham dick is just redundant and batman's lieutenant.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5207222]Yeah I like dick and babs as friends but not love interest. Because as a love interest babs locks dick into Gotham and in Gotham dick is just redundant and batman's lieutenant.[/QUOTE]
Ah, but I think Barbara should leave Gotham, too. I don't like her as Batman's lieutenant, either. I hate that she was retconned to his protege. Honestly, Tim and Steph will likely have to go, too, fairly soon. As long as they stay there, they stay subordinate to Batman. That's not good. They should leave for their own cities in adulthood if they are ever going to be full-on solo heroes instead of Batman's soldiers. Little more on the fence on preBoot Cass and when she should leave, but don't know current Cass enough to say.
Batgirl #50 does set up a potential way to Babs to move away - while rallying with a reluctant Congresswoman Alejo, and after managing to get Jim Gordon on side, she gets asked if she's considered going to Washington. They meant that she should run for office herself. She was a Congresswoman in the 1970s, could that happen again? Of course she wouldn't be the only superhero in Washington, as that's also Wonder Woman's base.
I would very much be fine with Babs getting back into politics (especially if she returns as Oracle instead of the ever-redundant Batgirl). Though odds are she'd run as a House representative and remain in Gotham most of the time.
So 'Tec is where Rocafort's been hiding huh? Pages look good, though it pisses me off that the best Nightwing (art *or* writing) is never in his own series.
[QUOTE=Tzigone;5207196]I agree completely. Ideally, two members of the same family should not date the same person. And I do ship him with Barbara, and wouldn't want magic to be a major part of his story, anyway. And I think it'd be better for Zee not to be mired in Bats.
Though, was she ever Batman's love interest in main-universe in continuity in the comics? I know she was in animated verse.[/QUOTE]
She was Dick's (short term) love interest in animation too - just not the same continuity.
Nice to see Dick in Tec. Looked good and I hope he stays around. I'm not mad at Tomasi for ignoring Ric. There were enough opportunities for other writers to handle the fallout and they didn't (at least not with good writing imo, except for Williamson in JL), so I don't expect him to deal with it even if I'm crossing my fingers that Dick and Damian will interact in Tec (if they aren't going to in NW #77) and have a conversation. That Dick still hasn't asked about him is a travesty, then again he's still never met Jon so whatever, I guess.
Batgirl... Oh, lord. That conversation didn't belong into the book at all imo. Bea has appeared more in Batgirl since the Ric arc than Dick has. And the whole "actions speak louder than words do" theme in regards to Dick just straight up ignored how they brought him back. He got flung into Joker War the second he got his memories back. He listened to Barbara even if he disagreed with her in #75. And the "Bea wouldn't like to hear you talking to me like that"? What is wrong with that writer? Those characters aren't insecure teenagers!
You mean like how Babs did all the work to bring him back, despite being rejected and attack by him. Dick should have to do some work to repair his relationship with the only person who seemed to give a shit and tried to help. But he's still Bea obsessed. He's all focused on keeping her in his life, and resentful towards pretty much everyone else.
Well in his own words Bea is stronger and more amazing than 100 Nightwings. So abandoning everything and everyone one for some stranger basically was clearly the right call on his part. :p
[QUOTE=Pohzee;5207028]We know Snyder is coming. Gotham or not, it’s the biggest spotlight Dick has been given in nearly a decade. There’s no need to hedge on being hopeful. Good things are on the way.[/QUOTE]
Snyder is probably the only writer left at DC that has any real interest in writing Dick's character. Outside those like a Seeley that had their turn and don't want to go back I don't think anyone else has any interest other than a cameo or just doing the bare minimum. So I want to believe Snyder's story will be good, but I still have some doubts about what he's said so far about it. Maybe if we get an artist attached to it I'll think a little more positively, but not much lately has me thinking that way.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5207222]Yeah I like dick and babs as friends but not love interest. Because as a love interest babs locks dick into Gotham and in Gotham dick is just redundant and batman's lieutenant.[/QUOTE]
Babs doesn’t do that Batman does
[QUOTE=Tzigone;5207225]Ah, but I think Barbara should leave Gotham, too. I don't like her as Batman's lieutenant, either. I hate that she was retconned to his protege. Honestly, Tim and Steph will likely have to go, too, fairly soon. As long as they stay there, they stay subordinate to Batman. That's not good. They should leave for their own cities in adulthood if they are ever going to be full-on solo heroes instead of Batman's soldiers. Little more on the fence on preBoot Cass and when she should leave, but don't know current Cass enough to say.[/QUOTE]
Dick and Barbara will be Batman's lieutenant while they are part of Batman's editorial. It doesn't matter if they left Gotham, their stories will still be dependent on Batman.
Even if it seems that they are being independent for an arc or story, that would be an illusion. After all, Batman editorial can use them for Batman anytime they want.
[QUOTE=Tzigone;5207225]Ah, but I think Barbara should leave Gotham, too. I don't like her as Batman's lieutenant, either. I hate that she was retconned to his protege. Honestly, Tim and Steph will likely have to go, too, fairly soon. As long as they stay there, they stay subordinate to Batman. That's not good. They should leave for their own cities in adulthood if they are ever going to be full-on solo heroes instead of Batman's soldiers. Little more on the fence on preBoot Cass and when she should leave, but don't know current Cass enough to say.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, they made a brand new map just for Burnside as a district of Gotham across the bridge in the mainland because there's no place left within the 3 islands, they should've just made it a new town.
Then again, Bristol, the Manor, and Kane Estate are all in the mainland and counted as a part of Gotham
[QUOTE=Badou;5207753] Snyder is probably the only writer left at DC that has any real interest in writing Dick's character. Outside those like a Seeley that had their turn and don't want to go back I don't think anyone else has any interest other than a cameo or just doing the bare minimum. So I want to believe Snyder's story will be good, but I still have some doubts about what he's said so far about it. Maybe if we get an artist attached to it I'll think a little more positively, but not much lately has me thinking that way.[/QUOTE]
I mean, the interest was pretty much punched out of them by editorial... so there is to hoping it might get better thanks to the changes DC is going through. Dick's writers up to Ric had good ideas. Even Percy was coming around after his first arc. The second someone glimpsed that writers wanted to do something bigger with Dick it was snuffed out.
[QUOTE=Avi;5208140]I mean, the interest was pretty much punched out of them by editorial... so there is to hoping it might get better thanks to the changes DC is going through. Dick's writers up to Ric had good ideas. Even Percy was coming around after his first arc. The second someone glimpsed that writers wanted to do something bigger with Dick it was snuffed out.[/QUOTE]
I don't think many writers are that interested in Nightwing. So I have doubts it will get any better because I don't think Nightwing is positioned well in DC to produce good stories, but maybe I'll be wrong. Dunno. My gut tells me that come March, or whenever we get some announcements post Future State, that the Nightwing book is just going to be the same stuff. Since it has been a long time since Didio was let go and there has been zero evidence that DC looks at Nightwing any differently than they did before. I need to see some change before I believe it.
Even a Seeley didn't want to write Nightwing at first because he had to use stuff like Bludhaven and Blockbuster. It's a problem when a writer that was already writing the character is hesitant to continue writing him because of his baggage, and a Percy I had issues with because he mostly just had a story idea about technology and slapped Nightwing on it kind of awkwardly. Like with having Dick be anti-technology and technology illiterate to try and fit him in the story he wanted to tell. Obviously I would have much preferred that story over the Ric stuff though, lol.
I was actually thinking about Percy's run the other day because I reread the Who is Donna Troy story since I was in the mood to read an actual GOOD Dick Grayson story since it has been so long, haha. That is probably the last great Dick as Robin story ever made which is a bit sad, but in it I noticed how he used computers and even science to try and figure out Donna's mystery. There is actually a panel of him at a science station. It struck me how strange that felt because you don't see Dick like that anymore because of how diffused the Robin identity/characters are now were Dick gets pigeonholed into "the Robin that can do flips well" so him using computers or science are completely absent from his modern stories, but if you try and have him use computers or science now I bet readers would say it is out of place because they have been conditioned for so long to only read the character one way.
[QUOTE=Tzigone;5207196]I agree completely. Ideally, two members of the same family should not date the same person. And I do ship him with Barbara, and wouldn't want magic to be a major part of his story, anyway. And I think it'd be better for Zee not to be mired in Bats.
Though, was she ever Batman's love interest in main-universe in continuity in the comics? I know she was in animated verse.[/QUOTE]
I think Bruce and Zatanna have a romance in main continuity. I didn't even know they have a romance in animated verse.
[QUOTE=Badou;5208519]I don't think many writers are that interested in Nightwing. So I have doubts it will get any better because I don't think Nightwing is positioned well in DC to produce good stories, but maybe I'll be wrong. Dunno. My gut tells me that come March, or whenever we get some announcements post Future State, that the Nightwing book is just going to be the same stuff. Since it has been a long time since Didio was let go and there has been zero evidence that DC looks at Nightwing any differently than they did before. I need to see some change before I believe it.
Even a Seeley didn't want to write Nightwing at first because he had to use stuff like Bludhaven and Blockbuster. It's a problem when a writer that was already writing the character is hesitant to continue writing him because of his baggage, and a Percy I had issues with because he mostly just had a story idea about technology and slapped Nightwing on it kind of awkwardly. Like with having Dick be anti-technology and technology illiterate to try and fit him in the story he wanted to tell. Obviously I would have much preferred that story over the Ric stuff though, lol.
I was actually thinking about Percy's run the other day because I reread the Who is Donna Troy story since I was in the mood to read an actual GOOD Dick Grayson story since it has been so long, haha. That is probably the last great Dick as Robin story ever made which is a bit sad, but in it I noticed how he used computers and even science to try and figure out Donna's mystery. There is actually a panel of him at a science station. It struck me how strange that felt because you don't see Dick like that anymore because of how diffused the Robin identity/characters are now were Dick gets pigeonholed into "the Robin that can do flips well" so him using computers or science are completely absent from his modern stories, but if you try and have him use computers or science now I bet readers would say it is out of place because they have been conditioned for so long to only read the character one way.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. I've remembered people saying Dick as Robin in Young Justice takes from Tim, because he was good with technology.
Dick having a lively and laid back personality wasn't part of NTT either. He was pretty stoic and serious at that time.
Yeah using technology isn't a character trait you steal in this day an age. Unless someone decided to write Dick as Amish that is...
Does anyone know if Dick is slated to join the Justice League proper?
[QUOTE=Pohzee;5209404]Yeah using technology isn't a character trait you steal in this day an age. Unless someone decided to write Dick as Amish that is...[/QUOTE]
LoL, right.
[QUOTE=bearman;5209462]Does anyone know if Dick is slated to join the Justice League proper?[/QUOTE]Unlikely as long as Batman is on the team. He should either lead an adult Titans team... or maybe a secondary JLA team. But he won't even make the main JL roster as long as Bruce is there.
[QUOTE=Digifiend;5209817]Unlikely as long as Batman is on the team. He should either lead an adult Titans team... or maybe a secondary JLA team. But he won't even make the main JL roster as long as Bruce is there.[/QUOTE]
Whilst I agree, my new hot take is that next time they redo the League's origin then Dick should have been with it from the start. Batman And Robin, The Dynamic Duo.
I dont even want Nightwing on the League. That's Bruce's team, and Dick being there would likely only further cement the idea of Dick being nothing but Bat-lite.
I actually think Dick should be one of the League's greatest critics. Not someone who is just all anti-League all the time, but someone who won't be blinded by the League's fame and status, who understands the kind of pressure they face, and will not only expect the highest possible moral/ethical standards from them but also get in the League's face when the team starts to slip.
There aren't a ton of people who could stand in front of the Justice League and tell them they're not doing their jobs well enough, that they're letting things slide and compromising....and of the few who would actually say those things, Dick's one of the few who everyone would actually listen to.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5207712]You mean like how Babs did all the work to bring him back, despite being rejected and attack by him. Dick should have to do some work to repair his relationship with the only person who seemed to give a shit and tried to help. But he's still Bea obsessed. He's all focused on keeping her in his life, and resentful towards pretty much everyone else.[/QUOTE]
Having read the issue proper it comes off as victim blaming, sorry. Dude got shot in the head, lost his memories, had his mind manipulated by the Court of Owls, and then Brainwashed into becoming Joker's henchman. I think it can be forgiven if he didn't act like himself through all of that.
There was a better way to write that scene. Like maybe have Babs acknowledge that she know she isn't being fair but she still needs some space and hopes Dick accepts that. I think that comes off way better than punching down over something he had no control over.
[QUOTE=CrimsonEchidna;5210326]Having read the issue proper it comes off as victim blaming, sorry. Dude got shot in the head, lost his memories, had his mind manipulated by the Court of Owls, and then Brainwashed into becoming Joker's henchman. I think it can be forgiven if he didn't act like himself through all of that.
There was a better way to write that scene. Like maybe have Babs acknowledge that she know she isn't being fair but she still needs some space and hopes Dick accepts that. I think that comes off way better than punching down over something he had no control over.[/QUOTE]
Babs was being way too self-righteous and ungrateful to practically everyone but the domestic terrorist boyfriend in that issue in my opinion.
What are you talking about, Ric was fine though. He wasn't a victim. Ric was just who he was, and who he still wants to be :p. She’s the jerk for wanting him back, but there is no accountability for him being a weak willed moron, criticizing everyone for not accepting who he was and what he wanted, while playing puppet boy to everyone and trying to kill her. Ric the perpetual victim. That didn't see himself as a victim, and rejected anyone who did. Even with his memories back Dick resents them, and pretty much anyone that isn't Bea.
Dude tried to kill her cause him and his girlfriend were too delusional and insensitive to listen to her in the first place and guilted her off. Ya he was brainwashed, but that’s exactly my point. He was messed in the head to begin with. First Babs is criticized and guilt tripped for not accepting Ric, now she’s being mean for not giving Dick a pass for what he did as Ric. Just like she’s the bad guy for wanting him to be himself. It’s ridiculous. What, she should just continue to be subservient to Nightwing’s writers whims. They conveniently contort Babs to help the express what they want to forcefully impose on readers, but it’s Ric’s writers stupid narrative with here that you guys are defending here lol.
That whole issue was heavy handed in execution, but I still respect the intent there. Other creators should push back against Nightwing’s current crap. What Babs tells him is actually rather meta. He’s got his memories back, yet he still wants to be like Ric. The only thing that has been recognizable about his character in his book is the suit he didn’t want to put on. And if they want to get readers interested in him again they need to do the work then with him. Prove that he’s not just a haven for bad creative, and put in the work to produce things of actual quality with him.
From the start of Ric Babs was the audience surrogate there, and they treated the audience like poop, well now his audience surrogate is just telling him what needs to be done for him to be a viable character again. Just take what she tells him and apply the audience to it. You want an audience back in your life. Do the work. Earn their friendship. Maybe even ditch the constant reminder that is Bea. Otherwise people have other stuff to do.
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;5207790]Babs doesn’t do that Batman does[/QUOTE]What? Everything about babs is gotham and Batman, that's her life. Even her superhero id has bat in it same as batman and she lives and works in gotham. So please tell me how babs does not lock dick into gotham and doesn't get in the way of dick independence? And no "I like them together" is not an answer.
[QUOTE=WonderNight;5210633]What? Everything about babs is gotham and Batman, that's her life. Even her superhero id has bat in it same as batman and she lives and works in gotham. So please tell me how babs does not lock dick into gotham and doesn't get in the way of dick independence? And no "I like them together" is not an answer.[/QUOTE]
Oracle and Nightwing have worked together out side of Gotham
Collaboration with the Titans
Only Bruce centers dick in Gotham
I agree there’s no place for Dick on the League with Bruce these. But Bucec is hugely overexposed... let his protege step in, do everything Batman does on the team, and do it with good humor and grace. MUCH better team dynamics.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5210305]
I actually think Dick should be one of the League's greatest critics. Not someone who is just all anti-League all the time, but someone who won't be blinded by the League's fame and status, who understands the kind of pressure they face, and will not only expect the highest possible moral/ethical standards from them but also get in the League's face when the team starts to slip.
There aren't a ton of people who could stand in front of the Justice League and tell them they're not doing their jobs well enough, that they're letting things slide and compromising....and of the few who would actually say those things, Dick's one of the few who everyone would actually listen to.[/QUOTE]
I like that idea a lot. And he has done it before. Can't see it organically working in the current universe, though. The JL are framed too godlike at the moment and Dick needs his ties to the wider DCU back first. Apart from Clark, maybe Diana thanks to that one Titans Annual and Cyborg thanks to him slowly being an ex-Titan again, Dick has no pull over the Leaguers. He's only been portrayed as the tag-along Robin in the recent stories.
[QUOTE=Avi;5211040]I like that idea a lot. And he has done it before. Can't see it organically working in the current universe, though. The JL are framed too godlike at the moment and Dick needs his ties to the wider DCU back first. Apart from Clark, maybe Diana thanks to that one Titans Annual and Cyborg thanks to him slowly being an ex-Titan again, Dick has no pull over the Leaguers. He's only been portrayed as the tag-along Robin in the recent stories.[/QUOTE]
All very true. The "Nightwing seal of approval" that supposedly crosses multiverses and makes even a Superman stop and take notice....doesn't seem to extend to the offices of DC Comics. :(
I still hope better days are coming. New people in charge, new directives and goals, and goals that align well with Dick's larger media profile......if we're going to escape the bullsh*t and get a proper Nightwing who's capable and respected, this is the time. Might take a while for DC's plans to take effect and reach the shelf, but if a crew at DC is gonna fix Nightwing I'm hoping it's these new guys. We just have to wait and see what they offer.
Reading the Dark Multiverse Hush tale was pretty enjoyable. It also makes me kind of hopeful that DC and/or the devs won't dismiss Dick's connection to the CoO in the upcoming video game the way it happened in the animated movie. The Talon design wasn't bad... looking at it I wish they would have used something similar in Batman: Ninja with Nightwing colors. Maybe it's just the scarf and the sword but I'm getting a steampunk-ninja vibe.
Justice League continues to be quite good in its character work. It deals with more of the amnesia aftermath this time. Dick's bout of [spoil] self-doubt was over a bit too suddenly to feel organic but it seems to me as if JL is supposed to bring back the Nightwing others have trust in and look to as a leader, so that's good.[/spoil]
[QUOTE=Ascended;5211459]All very true. The "Nightwing seal of approval" that supposedly crosses multiverses and makes even a Superman stop and take notice....doesn't seem to extend to the offices of DC Comics. :( [/QUOTE]
Well said. Here is to hoping!
JL was giving me IC vibes.
Haven’t picked it up yet, but is New Order any good?
[QUOTE=Shadowcat;5218032]Haven’t picked it up yet, but is New Order any good?[/QUOTE]
It was fun
[QUOTE=Shadowcat;5218032]Haven’t picked it up yet, but is New Order any good?[/QUOTE]
It was different. I didn’t hate it, and I was glad to see Higgins get some redemption on it.
[QUOTE=Godlike13;5216949]JL was giving me IC vibes.[/QUOTE]
Identity Crisis? Infinite Crisis? Haven't got a chance to read it because it was uploaded was a Wonder Woman book on the DC app or something.
Infinite Crisis. With the tower and everything.
Good to hear. I just bought the first 50 issues of the Rebirth era, as well as the Joker War tie-ins. Hope I love it, as Dick has always been one of my favorite male characters.