[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5103051]Oh so he's just short[/QUOTE]
can i ask what you're researching i'm so curious now
Printable View
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5103051]Oh so he's just short[/QUOTE]
can i ask what you're researching i'm so curious now
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5103051]Oh so he's just short[/QUOTE]It is nor unusual in comics and animation to draw kids and teen absurdly small.
I mean Damian is supposed to be 13 and has the size of a nine year old.
The YJ4 are all at least 16, which would in real live mean that they should be pretty close to their adult hight, but they are all a head shorter than the adult heroes (and in Tim's case also than his own future selfs from alternate time lines).
[QUOTE=Aahz;5104844]It is nor unusual in comics and animation to draw kids and teen absurdly small.
I mean Damian is supposed to be 13 and has the size of a nine year old.
The YJ4 are all at least 16, which would in real live mean that they should be pretty close to their adult hight, but they are all a head shorter than the adult heroes (and in Tim's case also than his own future selfs from alternate time lines).[/QUOTE]
It isn't just that they are just short at 16 compared to Adult heroes.
It is always implied that teens at 16 will still grow a lot to the time they become adults. They usually become so tall as their mentors.
Of course, this isn't anymore the case for Dick, since he's already an adult, but DC wants him to be shorter than Bruce.
I feel like Dick being a little short (by hero standards) is pretty much the norm. Kory is much taller than he is as well, and basically always has been.
No idea what Dick's official height is, but I'm pretty sure he's just of average height, which makes him look short compared to the towering giants that are most superheroes.
Personally, I think it's a great detail.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5105291]I feel like Dick being a little short (by hero standards) is pretty much the norm. Kory is much taller than he is as well, and basically always has been.
No idea what Dick's official height is, but I'm pretty sure he's just of average height, which makes him look short compared to the towering giants that are most superheroes.
Personally, I think it's a great detail.[/QUOTE]
I remember some comments about how Dick was a little less talk than his Pre-Flashpoint version back when the New 52 started, but i never gave it much thought, comic books are rarely consistent with heigths.
[QUOTE=TheCape;5105359]I remember some comments about how Dick was a little less talk than his Pre-Flashpoint version back when the New 52 started, but i never gave it much thought, comic books are rarely consistent with heigths.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't be surprised that Dick was taller as Batman.
It is clear DC use the height as a certain symbol of hierarchy in the Bat-Family. Just look New52 Batman #1 when Bruce appear along Dick, Tim and Damian.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5105291]I feel like Dick being a little short (by hero standards) is pretty much the norm. Kory is much taller than he is as well, and basically always has been.
No idea what Dick's official height is, but I'm pretty sure he's just of average height, which makes him look short compared to the towering giants that are most superheroes.
Personally, I think it's a great detail.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=TheCape;5105359]I remember some comments about how Dick was a little less talk than his Pre-Flashpoint version back when the New 52 started, but i never gave it much thought, comic books are rarely consistent with heigths.[/QUOTE]
Dick's 6' Pre Crisis and 5'10" starting later Post Crisis
Kori's 6'3" Pre Crisis and getting shorter as time passes until she's the same height or shorter than Dick depending on the artist
Bruce is always 6'2"
Babs used to be 5'10-11" and changed to 5'8" starting New 52
Jason's official bio tend to go with 6'-6'2" but the art always makes him shorter than Dick starting New 52 because they like that Batfam stairs
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5105446]Dick's 6' Pre Crisis and 5'10" starting later Post Crisis
Kori's 6'3" Pre Crisis and getting shorter as time passes until she's the same height or shorter than Dick depending on the artist
Bruce is always 6'2"
Babs used to be 5'10-11" and changed to 5'8" starting New 52
Jason's official bio tend to go with 6'-6'2" but the art always makes him shorter than Dick starting New 52 because they like that Batfam stairs[/QUOTE]
"Batfam stairs" that's too funny.
[QUOTE=Wingin' It;5105529]"Batfam stairs" that's too funny.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but unfortunately, it's true. Most artists draw them taller or shorter depending on their order of creation, sometimes depending on their hierarchy in the fam too. That's why Jason's and Tim's height are so inconsistent art wise.
It's too inconsistent too mean anything. Like the skin tone, hair cut, eyes' color. Birthday. In the end is a visual medium, they may use characteristics and design to tell a story or just because it looks cool, whatever fits the mood.
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5105446]Dick's 6' Pre Crisis and 5'10" starting later Post Crisis
Kori's 6'3" Pre Crisis[/QUOTE]
5'10" is what I remember for Dick. Or maybe it was 5'8" or something. I think he was the exact average height for an American male, which is pretty short by superhero standards.
Not that height means anything in comics or is ever treated with any consistency. But I like it when Nightwing is short compared to his peers.
So a preview for Batman 99 is up. I'm glad the Ric nightmare is almost over. I still probably won't read the book until Jurgens leaves....but I gotta admit I'm tempted to grab 75; it's been a long time since I got an issue of Nightwing and I'm feeling the itch.
Pages from JUSTICE LEAGUE #53
[url]https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/status/1296824526618075138[/url]
[QUOTE=Drako;5106799]Pages from JUSTICE LEAGUE #53
[url]https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/status/1296824526618075138[/url][/QUOTE]
Dang, I am really digging the art!
The benefit of being included in the actual event for once and not the event's sub-event is good art lol.
[QUOTE=Drako;5106799]Pages from JUSTICE LEAGUE #53
[url]https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/status/1296824526618075138[/url][/QUOTE]
Oooh!
When Williamson goes on Titans - which surely he will do, after this and his "not finished with the Flash Family" tease - can we keep Xermanico too?
Damn, that preview was like a cup of water in a desert. Been too long Nightwing was in something that seemed like it could be even semi competent.
Hang on I'm counting again
Rebirth backstory timespan is around 10-15 years
Dick here is based on New 52 around 16 years old
He's adopted as a child in King's Batman, unclear age
Okay yeah I can work with this
Say as an example Rebirth back story is 15 years
Current Nightwing - 25 years old
9 years ago - Justice League first meeting - 16 years old
4 years further (13 years ago) - Adopted - 12 years old
That still leaves 2 years - 15 years ago - Batman Year One
I mean there's no set age for his childhood so it can range between 10 to 12 years old but placing it at 12 conveniently set it in Batman Year Three
Well it makes sense if it's just Dick but you add Tim and Jon, and you have Dick meeting the League for the first time around the same time Jon was born and Tim already Robin and meeting Kon
[QUOTE=Drako;5106799]Pages from JUSTICE LEAGUE #53
[url]https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/status/1296824526618075138[/url][/QUOTE]
They are going to use the shitty New 52 Robin costume aren't they and ruin it all?
[QUOTE=Badou;5107268]They are going to use the shitty New 52 Robin costume aren't they and ruin it all?[/QUOTE]
He ain’t going back to the leotard and pixie boots soooooooo
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;5107314]He ain’t going back to the leotard and pixie boots soooooooo[/QUOTE]
Fine. Put pants and boots on his iconic costume then. It is such a simple fix but they keep reusing the awful New 52 costume. It looks so dull to me. The fucking Teen Titans cartoon of the early 2000s understood this but modern DC Comics can't for some reason.
[QUOTE=Rac7d*;5107314]He ain’t going back to the leotard and pixie boots soooooooo[/QUOTE]
Exactly this.
And I'm fine with that. I'm sure the short shorts will still show up here and there in other products and stories, but main continuity isn't going to be hurt by that outfit not returning in its purely original aesthetic.
That said I don't want or need a bunch of excess on the costume either; you start adding in crap and you're left with a generic design that could belong to anyone. So I'd rather Dick's Robin suit just have some proper pants and boots, and leave all the rest largely as-is. But some pants aren't a problem, and I'm sure young Grayson will appreciate it during those cold Gotham nights. :)
Hopefully they'll adapt something more akin to the tv show now.
[url]https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2020/08/20/batman-99-the-dark-knight-and-his-allies-gather-for-a-final-push-to-save-gotham[/url]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]99982[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]99983[/ATTACH]
[QUOTE=Badou;5107268]They are going to use the shitty New 52 Robin costume aren't they and ruin it all?[/QUOTE]
As soon as i posted the preview, I knew you would comment about the suit at some point. :D
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5106999]Hang on I'm counting again
Rebirth backstory timespan is around 10-15 years
Dick here is based on New 52 around 16 years old
He's adopted as a child in King's Batman, unclear age
Okay yeah I can work with this
Say as an example Rebirth back story is 15 years
Current Nightwing - 25 years old
9 years ago - Justice League first meeting - 16 years old
4 years further (13 years ago) - Adopted - 12 years old
That still leaves 2 years - 15 years ago - Batman Year One
I mean there's no set age for his childhood so it can range between 10 to 12 years old but placing it at 12 conveniently set it in Batman Year Three
Well it makes sense if it's just Dick but you add Tim and Jon, and you have Dick meeting the League for the first time around the same time Jon was born and Tim already Robin and meeting Kon[/QUOTE]
If Dick is around 16 there does that mean he became Robin before the Justice League formed? Or is DC still going with the idea that Dick didn't become Robin until he was 15-16 still like in the New 52? Since it felt like for a long time DC wanted to make sure that the JL formed before Dick became Robin. It was very important to DC to establish that. If Dick became Robin at around 10 or 12 years old I don't know if DC would like the idea of Dick being Robin for 4-6 years before the JL existed.
So something feels a bit off here. I think Dick looks too old to be meeting the JL for the first time, or for some reason they are keeping the New 52 era ages? It is just weird.
[QUOTE=Drako;5107651]As soon as i posted the preview, I knew you would comment about the suit at some point. :D[/QUOTE]
I'll never understand it. There have been so many awful New 52 costumes and designs replaced and forgotten about (even Superman there is in his classic design with the red shorts) but for some reason this New 52 Robin one sticks around. It is completely uninspiring. You don't see any fanart of it or cosplay of it and it holds no special place at all in the fandom outside of being a reference to a bad stretch of comics, but it lingers around like a cancer or something. It just doesn't go away.
There is the iconic Robin costume that if you think is too dated that is fine, but instead of trying to take that iconic costume and change it in a way where it retains its iconic status and imagery we are just left with a bland "modern" Robin costume that no one cares about. It isn't how you properly support a brand and I don't really understand DC's thought process.
[QUOTE=Badou;5107690]
There is the iconic Robin costume that if you think is too dated that is fine, but instead of trying to take that iconic costume and change it in a way where it retains its iconic status and imagery we are just left with a bland "modern" Robin costume that no one cares about. It isn't how you properly support a brand and I don't really understand DC's thought process.[/QUOTE]
Just at a guess? DC doesn't care about the new old costume being recognizable or iconic.
We only see Dick's Robin suit in flashback, so it's not like it's got a big presence in the first place. And as long as it maintains the things that make a Robin costume recognizable (mask, cape, logo, color scheme) they're not gonna sweat the overall design sensibility.
They can and do still use the classic suit in their products (like Batman 66) and merchandise, so they're still profiting off of it.
Plus, making Dick and Jason's Robin suits super generic actually helps DC market Robin. A Robin in a generic suit could be any of them. A Robin in short shorts and pixie boots is far more recognizable and helps establish the identity of the person behind the mask. That gets in the way of the brand, in DC's reckoning.
If they ever did a big "Dick Grayson origin" story somewhere, as a mini or whatever, one would hope that they'd take his classic costume, throw some pants on it, and call it a day, retaining the original design everywhere except those silly ass shorts. Because you're right, the new old costume is generic and boring AF and could belong to any street level hero if you change the colors and logo. But it only appears in flashbacks, so it's not a priority for DC.
[QUOTE=Badou;5107690]If Dick is around 16 there does that mean he became Robin before the Justice League formed? Or is DC still going with the idea that Dick didn't become Robin until he was 15-16 still like in the New 52? Since it felt like for a long time DC wanted to make sure that the JL formed before Dick became Robin. It was very important to DC to establish that. If Dick became Robin at around 10 or 12 years old I don't know if DC would like the idea of Dick being Robin for 4-6 years before the JL existed.
So something feels a bit off here. I think Dick looks too old to be meeting the JL for the first time, or for some reason they are keeping the New 52 era ages? It is just weird. [/QUOTE]
We still don't know exactly when he became Robin. The earliest Dick age was in King's Batman, as a child, but he's just Dick there, really early on after his parents' death, still not Robin.
Unless there's something in Jurgens Nightwing but I'm not reading that
Technically both The Justice League and Robin can have their origin whenever in that first 5 years, but according to this preview Dick apparently only met them when he's a teen
[QUOTE=Ascended;5107715]Just at a guess? DC doesn't care about the new old costume being recognizable or iconic.
We only see Dick's Robin suit in flashback, so it's not like it's got a big presence in the first place. And as long as it maintains the things that make a Robin costume recognizable (mask, cape, logo, color scheme) they're not gonna sweat the overall design sensibility.
They can and do still use the classic suit in their products (like Batman 66) and merchandise, so they're still profiting off of it.
Plus, making Dick and Jason's Robin suits super generic actually helps DC market Robin. A Robin in a generic suit could be any of them. A Robin in short shorts and pixie boots is far more recognizable and helps establish the identity of the person behind the mask. That gets in the way of the brand, in DC's reckoning.
If they ever did a big "Dick Grayson origin" story somewhere, as a mini or whatever, one would hope that they'd take his classic costume, throw some pants on it, and call it a day, retaining the original design everywhere except those silly ass shorts. Because you're right, the new old costume is generic and boring AF and could belong to any street level hero if you change the colors and logo. But it only appears in flashbacks, so it's not a priority for DC.[/QUOTE]
I think they do care about iconic costumes, but they just don't care about Dick's Robin costume specifically. You see how much effort they are putting into making Superman's costume look more "iconic" with giving him his shorts back, and even giving Wonder Woman her classic golden elements instead of the silver her New 52 one had, but Dick is still stuck with his same garbage costume. It's frustrating to me.
And it sucks because this is what we are stuck with in basically every flashback with Dick as Robin now which is the only time he appears as Robin in a comic anymore. Flashbacks are all we get as there isn't really any modern Dick as Robin era comic stories. It ruins every continued appearance as Dick as Robin now because they are filtered though him and this awful New 52 costume, which means no one will ever look at these appearance as anything memorable.
Also I think Jason's New 52 Robin costume is actually WAY better than Dick's New 52 one. It actually retained a lot more classic elements. It had basic green pants and boots without the dumb things added on like Dick's, no crotch arrow, gave him a belt, had a less cluttered red vest, but also had the classic yellow cape and the open arms. Jason fans actually like that costume which is why you see it pop up in a lot of fanart with him still, but no one cares about Dick's New 52 one.
[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5107733]We still don't know exactly when he became Robin. The earliest Dick age was in King's Batman, as a child, but he's just Dick there, really early on after his parents' death, still not Robin.
Unless there's something in Jurgens Nightwing but I'm not reading that
Technically both The Justice League and Robin can have their origin whenever in that first 5 years, but according to this preview Dick apparently only met them when he's a teen[/QUOTE]
It's just weird. If this is Dick's first time meeting the JL then there are 3 options and all are a bit odd to me. Either he became Robin late (no Boy Wonder era) like in the New 52 when he was around 16 and he meets the JL shortly after becoming Robin, he became Robin as a kid (8 to 12 years old) and was Robin for years until the JL first formed when he was around 16 and he meets them, or lastly he became Robin as a kid (8 to 12 years old) and the JL formed at the same time or before he was Robin but he didn't meet the JL even though he had been Robin for 4-8 years.
To me this feels like they are still trying to force in some New 52 elements by not wanting Dick to be Robin at a young age because of how it might effect some other characters, but I guess we will have to wait and see.
[QUOTE=Badou;5107846]I think they do care about iconic costumes, but they just don't care about Dick's Robin costume specifically. You see how much effort they are putting into making Superman's costume look more "iconic" with giving him his shorts back, and even giving Wonder Woman her classic golden elements instead of the silver her New 52 one had, but Dick is still stuck with his same garbage costume. It's frustrating to me.
And it sucks because this is what we are stuck with in basically every flashback with Dick as Robin now which is the only time he appears as Robin in a comic anymore. Flashbacks are all we get as there isn't really any modern Dick as Robin era comic stories. It ruins every continued appearance as Dick as Robin now because they are filtered though him and this awful New 52 costume, which means no one will ever look at these appearance as anything memorable.
Also I think Jason's New 52 Robin costume is actually WAY better than Dick's New 52 one. It actually retained a lot more classic elements. It had basic green pants and boots without the dumb things added on like Dick's, no crotch arrow, gave him a belt, had a less cluttered red vest, but also had the classic yellow cape and the open arms. Jason fans actually like that costume which is why you see it pop up in a lot of fanart with him still, but no one cares about Dick's New 52 one.
It's just weird. If this is Dick's first time meeting the JL then there are 3 options and all are a bit odd to me. Either he became Robin late (no Boy Wonder era) like in the New 52 when he was around 16 and he meets the JL shortly after becoming Robin, he became Robin as a kid (8 to 12 years old) and was Robin for years until the JL first formed when he was around 16 and he meets them, or lastly he became Robin as a kid (8 to 12 years old) and the JL formed at the same time or before he was Robin but he didn't meet the JL even though he had been Robin for 4-8 years.
To me this feels like they are still trying to force in some New 52 elements by not wanting Dick to be Robin at a young age because of how it might effect some other characters, but I guess we will have to wait and see.[/QUOTE]
Looks like the last option's the case, both JL and Robin existing but not interacting for quite some time. RIP Superman/Robin friendship.
Hey isn't that the batman arkham batmobile?
[QUOTE=DurararaFTW;5108008]Looks like the last option's the case, both JL and Robin existing but not interacting for quite some time. RIP Superman/Robin friendship.[/QUOTE]
I always read about Superman/Robin Friendship in this thread, but I have never seen them interacting much.
I know Nightwing identity is related to Superman. However, I don't think there was a lot of interactions between Dick and Clark at that time either.
So, when they were close?
[QUOTE=Konja7;5108094]I always read about Superman/Robin Friendship in this thread, but I have never seen them interacting much.
I know Nightwing identity is related to Superman. However, I don't think there was a lot of interactions between Dick and Clark at that time either.
So, when they were close?[/QUOTE]
Superman, Batman and Robin had years of adventures before there was a Justice League to speak off. Robin was at the founding of the Justice League originally. Nightwing has this status of being the one hero everyone in the DC community trusts exactly because he has been in the life as long as he has. New 52 messed with that quite a bit but I feel we are even further away from that status now.
[QUOTE=DurararaFTW;5108115]Superman, Batman and Robin had years of adventures before there was a Justice League to speak off. Robin was at the founding of the Justice League originally. Nightwing has this status of being the one hero everyone in the DC community trusts exactly because he has been in the life as long as he has. New 52 messed with that quite a bit but I feel we are even further away from that status now.[/QUOTE]
I guess that interactions happened before the 80s, right? I haven't looking much about comics before that time.
I think Dick was losing that status even before New52 (although he recovered it during his Batman time), because his interactions with other characters were reduced a lot.
Of maybe I just don't read enough comics.
[QUOTE=Konja7;5108119]I guess that interactions happened before the 80s, right? I haven't looking much about comics before that time.
I think Dick was losing that status even before New52 (although he recovered it during his Batman time), because his interactions with other characters were reduced a lot.
Of maybe I just don't read enough comics.[/QUOTE]
Before the 60s. The original World's Finest, while mainly about Superman and Batman also include Dick.
[QUOTE=Konja7;5108119]I guess that interactions happened before the 80s, right? I haven't looking much about comics before that time.
I think Dick was losing that status even before New52 (although he recovered it during his Batman time), because his interactions with other characters were reduced a lot.
Of maybe I just don't read enough comics.[/QUOTE]
Superman, Batman and Robin were always some of the earliest active heroes of the modern era. How much current Nightwing interacts with other characters may fluctuate but the idea that Superman and the rest of the Justice League had been introduced to most other heroes over a period of years before Robin met someone other then Batman, that's a new low.
Yeah, if it were up to me? I'd bring back the idea that - at least in the league's early days - "Batman And Robin" were an inseparable team. Batman wouldn't appear in Metropolis one week, and Coast City the next, it isn't Batman you'd call for help in solving a crime, if you're walking down an alley in Gotham City and someone pulls a gun on you it isn't Batman who'll appear... It's [I]Batman and Robin.[/I]
That's sort of the point.
[QUOTE=DurararaFTW;5108008]Looks like the last option's the case, both JL and Robin existing but not interacting for quite some time. RIP Superman/Robin friendship.[/QUOTE]
That kind of sucks. I guess DC wants to try and lessen or discount his time as Robin before he was 16 still. It is just weird if he has been Robin for 4-8 years but he doesn't meet any of the JL until he is an older teen. I really enjoy the idea of Dick being Robin from a young age, like 10 years old, because it really puts emphasis on his title as Boy Wonder and how he basically grew up in the hero world. If he is already a teen before anything happens then that title is meaningless.
The Superman stuff also is disappointing, but they have been lessening their relationship for a long time. So at least I'm used to it by now, lol.
[QUOTE=Badou;5107846]I think they do care about iconic costumes, but they just don't care about Dick's Robin costume specifically. You see how much effort they are putting into making Superman's costume look more "iconic" with giving him his shorts back, and even giving Wonder Woman her classic golden elements instead of the silver her New 52 one had, but Dick is still stuck with his same garbage costume. It's frustrating to me.[/QUOTE]
Well that's the thing, we only see Dick's Robin costume in the occasional flashback whereas Clark and Diana are wearing their classic suits (or a close variation) right now.
What bothers me far more than Dick's generic new Robin suit is the design hiccups on his current Nightwing suit.
[QUOTE=Konja7;5108094]I always read about Superman/Robin Friendship in this thread, but I have never seen them interacting much.
I know Nightwing identity is related to Superman. However, I don't think there was a lot of interactions between Dick and Clark at that time either.
So, when they were close?[/QUOTE]
Back in the 40's and 50's, maybe into the 60's (not sure on that) Bruce and Clark would have a lot of adventures together in World's Finest, and Dick would tag along, often with Jimmy Olsen. There were also stories where just Clark and Dick hung out.
That relationship maintained through reboots and Crisis events, though you didn't see Clark and Dick hang out nearly as much after the 70's or so. But you'd have issues where one would guest star in the other's book and they'd still be close. See if you can find a two issue guest spot during Dixon's early Nightwing run and a early issue of Seeley's. There's other examples in the modern era where Clark and Dick hang out but those are two of my favorites. There's also a really good issue of Superman or Action (I forget) where he and Dick are on a stake-out but I can't remember who wrote or drew it.
[QUOTE=Ascended;5108265]Well that's the thing, we only see Dick's Robin costume in the occasional flashback whereas Clark and Diana are wearing their classic suits (or a close variation) right now.
What bothers me far more than Dick's generic new Robin suit is the design hiccups on his current Nightwing suit.
Back in the 40's and 50's, maybe into the 60's (not sure on that) Bruce and Clark would have a lot of adventures together in World's Finest, and Dick would tag along, often with Jimmy Olsen. There were also stories where just Clark and Dick hung out.
That relationship maintained through reboots and Crisis events, though you didn't see Clark and Dick hang out nearly as much after the 70's or so. But you'd have issues where one would guest star in the other's book and they'd still be close. See if you can find a two issue guest spot during Dixon's early Nightwing run and a early issue of Seeley's. There's other examples in the modern era where Clark and Dick hang out but those are two of my favorites. There's also a really good issue of Superman or Action (I forget) where he and Dick are on a stake-out but I can't remember who wrote or drew it.[/QUOTE]
The Nightwing guest appearance was in Action Comics, i remember it because it was written by Joe Kelly, but i don't remember the specific issue.
Back in the day, Clark was pretty much like Dick's Uncle. Like others have mentioned, he, Bruce and Clark spent quite a bit of time together, and honoring Superman was one of the primary reasons he chose the "Nightwing" moniker.