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[QUOTE=CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree;4883792]Avengers vs X-Men was written by Bendis who Couldn't care less how powerful characters are supposed to be.[/QUOTE]
Jason Aaron is the one that wrote Rachel beating Thor, not Bendis. Kaare Andrews wrote his defeat by Emma
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[QUOTE=Havok83;4883799]Jason Aaron is the one that wrote Rachel beating Thor, not Bendis.[/QUOTE]
My point still stands. Jason Aaron is Bendis 2.0 pretty much.
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[QUOTE=Cronus;4883553]Actually, this notion is not far from the Thor Stan envisioned. Thor was a departure from the previous characters utilizing the "feet made of clay" formula. Thor was Stans first Cape at Marvel and subtle competition to Superman. As far as success, do you think Thors rogue gallery is insufficient to challenge Thor? Desak, Mangog, The Enchanters (woefully underused), The Absorbing Man, Kurse? Hmmmm. What I'd like to see is Thor [i][b]returned[/b][/i] to form.
Kind of sounds like you're happy with Thor being depicted as a drunken moron who is now weaker than Shulk. Because that's not really my idea of a Thor I want to read either.[/QUOTE]
Mangog is woefully underused. I would also add the Destroyer Armor, Jormungand, Surtur and Durok the Demolisher as challenging Thor villains.
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[QUOTE=CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree;4883859]Mangog is woefully underused. I would also add the Destroyer Armor, Jormungand, Surtur and Durok the Demolisher as challenging Thor villains.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely, further cementing Thor's formidable rogues gallery.
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[QUOTE=CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree;4883859]Mangog is woefully underused. I would also add the Destroyer Armor, Jormungand, Surtur and Durok the Demolisher as challenging Thor villains.[/QUOTE]
I feel like the classic Simonson run pretty much exhausted the potential of Surtr and Jormungandr (while introducing Malekith and Kurse, IIRC). I'm pretty cool with Surtr being succeeded by Sindr, and wouldn't mind seeing her developed further, but Jormungandr definitely needs some sort of follow up (spawn erupting from his remains, and now competing for which of them gets to become the new 'midgard serpent?'), as do older classic Thor foes like Fenris/Garm or Ulik, king of the trolls.
New villains could be crafted from the old mythos as well. There's no need for Hela, for instance, to show up for every punch-fest, when a simple sorcerer-priest or cult of Hela (perhaps recruited during her time on Earth, in Vegas?), able to summon legions of the dead, and use various darker magics and invocations (like 'the Lies of Loki,' an illusion spell that creates a bunch of illusions of themself, or 'Sindr's Sword,' a giant flaming sword attacking their foes) could be a different sort of threat. Or the dragon Fafnir, slain long ago and one of his fangs used to craft the original Valkyrie's sword, could be resurrected by someone who has stolen said sword and used it to fuel a spell to regrow his body and restore his threat.
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[QUOTE=MichaelC;4883653]Who is that?[/QUOTE]
Currently I would say Howard Stark.
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[QUOTE=Havok83;4883573]You missed him being owned by Rachel Grey as well as Emma Frost[/QUOTE]
Phoenix enhanced Frost.
Ah the good old days when he blasted Rachel right out of her spiked red leather boots and kissed Storm into unconsciousness...
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[QUOTE=brettc1;4885478]Phoenix enhanced Frost.
Ah the good old days when he blasted Rachel right out of her spiked red leather boots and kissed Storm into unconsciousness...[/QUOTE]
Thor and Storm would make a good ship.
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[QUOTE=CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree;4885689]Thor and Storm would make a good ship.[/QUOTE]
I never understood why Marvel NEVER made this happen or had them interact more often.
In fact Storm and Thor have BARELY even talk to each other. I can only think of 3 interactions.
[QUOTE=CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree;4883833]My point still stands. Jason Aaron is Bendis 2.0 pretty much.[/QUOTE]
Really? Yikes.
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[QUOTE=stormphoenix;4885824]I never understood why Marvel NEVER made this happen or had them interact more often.
In fact Storm and Thor have BARELY even talk to each other. I can only think of 3 interactions.
I mean he seems to be doing well for Thor as of right now. I don't see how Jason Aaron is shitting on Thor currently.[/QUOTE]
I would love to see them work together more often.
And I prefer what Cates has going on for Thor currently in his run than what Aaron was doing, but then I haven't been keeping up with Avengers lately either.
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[QUOTE=twisted sun;4885846]I would love to see them work together more often.
And I prefer what Cates has going on for Thor currently in his run than what Aaron was doing, but then I haven't been keeping up with Avengers lately either.[/QUOTE]
I rather Storm and Thor work MORE together also. I think the adventures and conversations they'd have would be "Interesting" in fact comical.
Yes, Cates seems to be doing better actually he is better than Aaron. In Avengers Thor does not seem to be......Interesting.
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[QUOTE=stormphoenix;4885850]I rather Storm and Thor work MORE together also. I think the adventures and conversations they'd have would be "Interesting" in fact comical.
Yes, Cates seems to be doing better actually he is better than Aaron. In Avengers Thor does not seem to be......Interesting.[/QUOTE]
I remember this moment.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]94395[/ATTACH]
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that's not canon to 616
it was from marvel adventures
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[QUOTE=Cronus;4883543]That was Stans original vision for Thor. Like Stan mentions in [i]Origins of Marvel Comics[/i], "...we were hooked on superlatives at the time". I happen to agree with that view. Not everyone, including writers, agree with that perspective, but I do. Evidently, so does Kevin Grevioux.
.
I find this an odd notion. Hulk at his angriest...is as strong as a god...and likely among the strongest in the entire marvel universe....and this is an affront to Hulk fans? I dont see it as being problematic. Prior to De Falco, Thor and Hulk were seen as two of the BMOCs at Marvel, so why a return to this is a slight for Hulk is beyond me.
[I]Equal[/i] by definition doesn't equate to exclusivity.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, Hulk fans went through a similar dork age with Jeph Loeb's run on Hulk: The main character gets regressed into a more stupid individual and becomes a side character of his own series (Thor becoming a jobber and a drunken slob/Hulk suddenly being regressed to his old ''hulk smash'' persona) while the spotlights are on the writer's god mode sue character who stomps powerful characters left and right without issues, even characters that should be more powerful than him (Jane Fosthor/Red Hulk).
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[QUOTE=Ichijinijisanji;4886267]that's not canon to 616
it was from marvel adventures[/QUOTE]
Still cute though.
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[QUOTE=Sutekh;4884271]I feel like the classic Simonson run pretty much exhausted the potential of Surtr and Jormungandr (while introducing Malekith and Kurse, IIRC). I'm pretty cool with Surtr being succeeded by Sindr, and wouldn't mind seeing her developed further, but Jormungandr definitely needs some sort of follow up (spawn erupting from his remains, and now competing for which of them gets to become the new 'midgard serpent?'), as do older classic Thor foes like Fenris/Garm or Ulik, king of the trolls.
New villains could be crafted from the old mythos as well. There's no need for Hela, for instance, to show up for every punch-fest, when a simple sorcerer-priest or cult of Hela (perhaps recruited during her time on Earth, in Vegas?), able to summon legions of the dead, and use various darker magics and invocations (like 'the Lies of Loki,' an illusion spell that creates a bunch of illusions of themself, or 'Sindr's Sword,' a giant flaming sword attacking their foes) could be a different sort of threat. Or the dragon Fafnir, slain long ago and one of his fangs used to craft the original Valkyrie's sword, could be resurrected by someone who has stolen said sword and used it to fuel a spell to regrow his body and restore his threat.[/QUOTE]
I like a lot of your new villain ideas, but I disagree with the bit about Surtur. Aside from being the big bad in Simonson's run, he is a woefully underdeveloped character. Surtur and the entire realm Muspellheim have barely been touched except for the odd event motivator. But instead, Marvel has chosen to just make a female Surtur-lite with this Sindr character. Why develop Surtur more when you can just toss him in the bin and make a female knock-off? Sounds like another stellar Marvel idea. Also, while he may look like it at first glance, Surtur is not a demon or a devil and Muspellheim is [I]not[/I] some realm of damnation filled with demons. I really wish Marvel writers would understand this. Surtur is the living embodiment of cosmic heat and flame. There is more potential for the character with this understanding in my opinion.
As for Jormungand, he/it is really not even interesting as an idea to me. I haven't been a fan of any version Marvel has done of the character. It's really just supposed to sleep until the end of time.
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[QUOTE=Doombot;4889972]I like a lot of your new villain ideas, but I disagree with the bit about Surtur. Aside from being the big bad in Simonson's run, he is a woefully underdeveloped character. Surtur and the entire realm Muspellheim have barely been touched except for the odd event motivator. But instead, Marvel has chosen to just make a female Surtur-lite with this Sindr character. Why develop Surtur more when you can just toss him in the bin and make a female knock-off? Sounds like another stellar Marvel idea. Also, while he may look like it at first glance, Surtur is not a demon or a devil and Muspellheim is [I]not[/I] some realm of damnation filled with demons. I really wish Marvel writers would understand this. Surtur is the living embodiment of cosmic heat and flame. There is more potential for the character with this understanding in my opinion.
As for Jormungand, he/it is really not even interesting as an idea to me. I haven't been a fan of any version Marvel has done of the character. It's really just supposed to sleep until the end of time.[/QUOTE]
I like your vision of Surtur. Although i think Mangog is the most underrated Thor villain. He's pretty much Marvel's Doomsday before Doomsday was cool.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;4883589]Are you assuming that people nostalgic for those eras ignore a lack of actual substance in those eras? I don't think that's true for Simonson.[/QUOTE]
That's almost the opposite of what I was saying.
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[QUOTE=Cronus;4883553]Actually, this notion is not far from the Thor Stan envisioned. Thor was a departure from the previous characters utilizing the "feet made of clay" formula. Thor was Stans first Cape at Marvel and subtle competition to Superman. As far as success, do you think Thors rogue gallery is insufficient to challenge Thor? Desak, Mangog, The Enchanters (woefully underused), The Absorbing Man, Kurse? Hmmmm. What I'd like to see is Thor [i][b]returned[/b][/i] to form.
Kind of sounds like you're happy with Thor being depicted as a drunken moron who is now weaker than Shulk. Because that's not really my idea of a Thor I want to read either.[/QUOTE]
Friendly reminder we just go through 5 years of this garbage.
[video=youtube;mjMwbMt8bl0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjMwbMt8bl0[/video]
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[QUOTE=Ichijinijisanji;4869337]the worst of this, far as I can tell, is just one writer who's been a main writer on thor for 5 years.
I don't remember fraction's run showing him this poorly.[/QUOTE]
And now even when he Is not writing the Thor series anymore, he couldn't help but having Jane being stronger than Thor in her book. Not even Bendis is this petty.
I don't know why Aaron hates Thor so much
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[QUOTE=CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree;4891993]And now even when he Is not writing the Thor series anymore, he couldn't help but having Jane being stronger than Thor in her book. Not even Bendis is this petty.
I don't know why Aaron hates Thor so much[/QUOTE]
eh
maybe the black stuff made him weaker
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[QUOTE=Ichijinijisanji;4892193]eh
maybe the black stuff made him weaker[/QUOTE]
But Jane easily shrugged off the black stuff.
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[QUOTE=CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree;4892210]But Jane easily shrugged off the black stuff.[/QUOTE]
well it's like cancer, and she's had cancer so it's a more familiar sensation to be able to fight it. Maybe cancer survivors are more resistant. She also took smaller attacks from it, rather than thor just plunging his hammer into the source directly
and since it appears to have an effect of weakening and draining your life force away, that is an explanation for how she can win the physical fight atleast
this is just no-prizing it, until the issue comes out and maybe this is explained
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[QUOTE=CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree;4891601]Friendly reminder we just go through 5 years of this garbage.
[video=youtube;mjMwbMt8bl0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjMwbMt8bl0[/video][/QUOTE]
Yeah, and evidently not over as long as Aaron is writing Thor in Avengers. Hes obviously made this personal.
*sigh*
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On the other hand, I am enjoying Cates' run on Thor so far!
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[QUOTE=Cronus;4892316]Yeah, and evidently not over as long as Aaron is writing Thor in Avengers. Hes obviously made this personal.
*sigh*[/QUOTE]
Maybe Aaron should be taken off the Avengers as well. He seems spiteful. Obviously can’t take criticism from fans it seems. I dropped the Avengers. Space mountain and the BC Avengers just weren’t doing it for me.
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[QUOTE=CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree;4891993]And now even when he Is not writing the Thor series anymore, he couldn't help but having Jane being stronger than Thor in her book. Not even Bendis is this petty.
I don't know why Aaron hates Thor so much[/QUOTE]
Have you seen Valkyrie's sales? He rode on the back of 90s style stunt writing and now he is (finally) realizing that what made Foster popular was the hammer. His run will be mentioned in the same breath as The Clone Saga, Emerald Twilight, The Death Of Superman, That story that resulted in Tony Stark being turned into a teenager lol and Knighfall in the "Hey, remember when..." dustbin
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[QUOTE=Anthony W;4892360]Have you seen Valkyrie's sales? He rode on the back of 90s style stunt writing and now he is (finally) realizing that what made Foster popular was the hammer. His run will be mentioned in the same breath as The Clone Saga, Emerald Twilight, The Death Of Superman, That story that resulted in Tony Stark being turned into a teenager lol and Knighfall in the "Hey, remember when..." dustbin[/QUOTE]
The Death and Return of Superman is a good storyline though.
I really wonder why JKtheMac hasn't tried to defend Aaron's Thor and Valkyrie here.
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[QUOTE=CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree;4892389]The Death and Return of Superman is a good storyline though.[/QUOTE]
Okay, take out Death and Return of Superman and use Maximum Carnage instead.
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Or use that saga that resulted in Cap wearing armor.
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[QUOTE=Anthony W;4893941]Or use that saga that resulted in Cap wearing armor.[/QUOTE]
In which issues? I never heard of Captain America wearing armor.
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[QUOTE=CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree;4894065]In which issues? I never heard of Captain America wearing armor.[/QUOTE]
in gruenwald's run, cap was paralyzed and had to wear an armor to operate
this came back up during axis when his serum had worn off and he was an old man. Before hickman's secret wars, old steve in armor fought inverted tony in an armor and the world basically exploded around them
then the secret empire arc had hydra cap wear another type of armor that channeled the cosmic cube
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[QUOTE=Ichijinijisanji;4894086]in gruenwald's run, cap was paralyzed and had to wear an armor to operate
this came back up during axis when his serum had worn off and he was an old man. Before hickman's secret wars, old steve in armor fought inverted tony in an armor and the world basically exploded around them
then the secret empire arc had hydra cap wear another type of armor that channeled the cosmic cube[/QUOTE]
Mark Gruenwald's run was good but even he wasn't immune to nineties trends.
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[QUOTE=CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree;4890327]I like your vision of Surtur. Although i think Mangog is the most underrated Thor villain. He's pretty much Marvel's Doomsday before Doomsday was cool.[/QUOTE]
There is a marvel character called doomsday man by the way that came out before doomsday.
Doomsday Man (Earth-616)
[IMG]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/4/42/Doomsday_Man_%28Earth-616%29_from_Ms._Marvel_Vol_2_12_001.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/325?cb=20170107210150[/IMG]
First Appearance
Silver Surfer #13
(February, 1970)
[url]https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Doomsday_Man[/url]
[url]https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Kerwin_Korman_(Earth-616)[/url]
[url]https://comicvine.gamespot.com/doomsday-man/4005-19948/[/url]
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[video=youtube;_ZFlIIlSTSQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZFlIIlSTSQ&t=309s[/video]
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durok is kinda like a doomsday too
actually did kill thor
[QUOTE=mace11;4894776]There is a marvel character called doomsday man by the way that came out before doomsday.
Doomsday Man (Earth-616)
[/QUOTE]
yeah, he started off as someone unbeatable for Silver surfer, and then somehow became carol's rogue
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durok was even beaten by time travelling him to some post-apocalyptic earth
Not exactly a "hunter/prey" but reminiscent
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[QUOTE=Ichijinijisanji;4894837]durok was even beaten by time travelling him to some post-apocalyptic earth
Not exactly a "hunter/prey" but reminiscent[/QUOTE]
Durok problem is that he's another powerful and one-dimensional rampaging monster. The Destroyer Armor and Mangog already took that niche. I can see why he's forgotten.
The similarities between how he was defeated by Silver Surfer and how Supes defeated Doomsday are hilarious in hindsight.
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Nah. Mangog is a master planner, at least when Kirby had him.
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[QUOTE=Triniking1234;4894908]Nah. Mangog is a master planner, at least when Kirby had him.[/QUOTE]
Mangog never struck me as a planner. Under Kirby all he did was beating up Ulik, smashing storm giants and some asgardian outposts and getting wished away by Odin.