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If you want to go with the stain analogy, I'd say that at worse OMD may have been ruining a wash by trying to get out a stain, but Sin Pasts is more like looking at an outfit and going out of you way to add a stain to it.
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[QUOTE=Triniking1234;4995857]Sins Past is the stain that can be removed with a cup of Tide.
One More Day is the stain that ruins the rest of the load when you try to wash it out.[/QUOTE]
Yep. Well said. Sins Past doesn't even matter in any way to the comics today, and would be undetectable to any reader. Gwen's sex life was the subject of absolutely no stories. No one can say, well she wouldn't have slept with Norman Osborn because its documented that she was sleeping with Miles Warren! (yuck). Outside of reading the original story, and the follow up story, how would one even know it existed? Thats two stories, and each are not easy to find.
OMD is totally detectable, since it got rid of a marriage that's very commonly portrayed in comics available all over the place in stores. We're talking hundreds of stories out there, if not thousands, that contradict the current OMD-generated status quo.
Every beginning splash page of a Spider-Man comic now states quite clearly "this story brought to you by OMD"!
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For me, OMD is the bigger offender because it’s had a bigger, much more long term impact, and because it can’t be subjected to a “Let us never speak of this again” approach to dissatisfied readers.
Sins Past is something I could look at, shrug, and ignore, and it doesn’t need to impact any future stories.
OMD is a perpetual editorial edict that forces certain plot annoyances to continue and forever ix-nays a positive development, allowing stagnation to exist instead of growth.
Sins Past is a bad speed bump. One More Day is someone kicking you out of you’re preferred car and making you drive around in an older one with worse MPG And bad air conditioning cause they insist its a classic with character.
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Can't believe Marvel went through that mess just to show Gwen didn't die an incel.
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[QUOTE=godisawesome;4998382]For me, OMD is the bigger offender because it’s had a bigger, much more long term impact, and because it can’t be subjected to a “Let us never speak of this again” approach to dissatisfied readers.
Sins Past is something I could look at, shrug, and ignore, and it doesn’t need to impact any future stories.
OMD is a perpetual editorial edict that forces certain plot annoyances to continue and forever ix-nays a positive development, allowing stagnation to exist instead of growth.
Sins Past is a bad speed bump. One More Day is someone kicking you out of you’re preferred car and making you drive around in an older one with worse MPG And bad air conditioning cause they insist its a classic with character.[/QUOTE]
You people are on fire! LOL, another great description of the madness behind OMD and its distasteful aftermath.
I like characters that change and grow, oh, and romance (to a degree). Spidey fighting villains is fun yeah but if that was all he was I must admit I wouldn't be a fan. Marvel told me in 2007 they didn't care what I wanted as a reader they knew what was best. I doubt I'll ever fully forgive them, especially Big Joe for the infantilization of Peter Parker.
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By far, One More Day is the worst Spider-Man book I ever read. I heard from many people that after they read that comic, they quit reading comic books entirely. That shows how bad it was.
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Sorry, OMD/BND was the worst thing to happen in Spider-Man and comic book history. I quit the books after that and took me years to come back on board (And a lot of money buying all the missed books second hand for my collection)
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[QUOTE=themasething;5019538]Sorry, OMD/BND was the worst thing to happen in Spider-Man and comic book history. [U]I quit the books after that and took me years to come back on board [/U](And a lot of money buying all the missed books second hand for my collection)[/QUOTE]
Same here, I only (reluctantly at the time) returned because I was intrigued by the concept of Superior Spider-Man, which I ultimately got burned by (again). Truthfully, my Spidey fandom has never fully recovered. I still take breaks from the main book doing so would have been unthinkable for me before OMD. What I suspect it boils down to is my subconscious fear that if I like a Spider-Man plot development they'll magically delete it in the future. Why become emotionally interested in a character or his supporting cast if you know they'll be reset to square one at any time with a minimum explanation or narrative impact?
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[QUOTE]Why become emotionally interested in a character or his supporting cast if you know they'll be reset to square one at any time with a minimum explanation or narrative impact? [/QUOTE]
Because you like the stories as they're happening?
What does it matter if somebody comes along later and says they don't count? What counts is you enjoying them.
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[QUOTE=Alan2099;5021197]Because you like the stories as they're happening?
What does it matter if somebody comes along later and says they don't count? What counts is you enjoying them.[/QUOTE]
That's your view, not mine. I care less about a story if I know beforehand that permeant character development and plot movement are impossible. Marvel tipped their hand when they stated bluntly that their goal is to keep Peter young & single FOREVER. Even if true they never should have admitted such so as to preserve the illusion of change, if nothing else. I have no interest in witnessing the same characters overcoming the exact same struggles a million times and then they start over again. Until OMD Spider-Man's adventures felt like serialized fiction in which everything mattered, had an impact upon Peter, his loved ones (especially so his personal life) and his world, not so Post-OMD.
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Easily sins past for me. A classic character who was innocent and never used in any way other then damsell in distress all of a sudden is a cheating slut with her boyfriends arch nemsis villian and has 2 super villian kids. There was absolutely no point in this story in any shape or fashion.
The only worse idea for gwen stacy was slott trying to add she woke up on top of the bridge and found out peter was spiderman.
Omd was boring and used the boring save aunt may off her death bed cliche. I was not reading previews or forums so the marriage ending was genuinely a shock. I like mj but the marriage isnt a must have feature or im never reading ASM again. There is also the fact that at any moment the no marriage deal can be retconned away where peter and mj remember they did in fact get married and gave any memory of it away to save aunt may. I also am glad that OMD exists because it meant the end to worst spiderman run that i have read (havent read from ASM 320-440 and vol 2 1-20)
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One thing that doesn't get brought up enough is how both stories feel like they're from a bygone era. I picked up on this while reading them for the first time last year.
If I recall correctly, the decision to have Gwen lie to Peter was JMS' way of making Gwen seem "less perfect" and more "three-dimensional". In a world where [I]The Spectacular Spider-Man[/I] and Emma Stone's Gwen exist, this makes no sense. The two-dimensionality of the Lee/Romita Gwen was more-or-less "fixed" in those versions. If those versions are still too 'perfect' for JMS, there is the punk-goth Gwen from [I]Ultimate Spider-Man[/I] and [I]Spider-Gwen[/I] as an alternative. [I]Sins Past[/I] is a solution to a non-problem way more in the 2010's than it even was in the 2000's.
In the case of OMD, it reads like it's written by someone from a time where marriage was seen as the end-all-be-all of love. Given that marriage is technically just a legal contract, and that it is not uncommon anymore for two adults to fall in love but never get married, what exactly does Mephisto hope to accomplish by erasing Peter's wedding day? Heck, according to Quesada himself, all other events with Peter and MJ still happened. They are even back together in Spencer's run, they're just not legally married. On top of all the problems that already plague OMD, it also makes Mephisto look foolish for thinking simply not getting married would separate them.
On top of both being bad, they show a clear generational divide in values and experiences with Spider-Man.
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OMD contains a scene where an alternate version of Peter whines about how he can't be a hero and how nerds are losers. This is a comic book about men and women in spandex fighting villains. Really?
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[QUOTE=Kaitou D. Kid;5030059]One thing that doesn't get brought up enough is how both stories feel like they're from a bygone era. I picked up on this while reading them for the first time last year.
If I recall correctly, the decision to have Gwen lie to Peter was JMS' way of making Gwen seem "less perfect" and more "three-dimensional". In a world where [I]The Spectacular Spider-Man[/I] and Emma Stone's Gwen exist, this makes no sense. The two-dimensionality of the Lee/Romita Gwen was more-or-less "fixed" in those versions. If those versions are still too 'perfect' for JMS, there is the punk-goth Gwen from [I]Ultimate Spider-Man[/I] and [I]Spider-Gwen[/I] as an alternative. [I]Sins Past[/I] is a solution to a non-problem way more in the 2010's than it even was in the 2000's.
In the case of OMD, it reads like it's written by someone from a time where marriage was seen as the end-all-be-all of love. Given that marriage is technically just a legal contract, and that it is not uncommon anymore for two adults to fall in love but never get married, what exactly does Mephisto hope to accomplish by erasing Peter's wedding day? Heck, according to Quesada himself, all other events with Peter and MJ still happened. They are even back together in Spencer's run, they're just not legally married. On top of all the problems that already plague OMD, it also makes Mephisto look foolish for thinking simply not getting married would separate the
On top of both being bad, they show a clear generational divide in values and experiences with Spider-Man.[/QUOTE
I happen to agree with you, and besides that, OMD ( at least in my mind) is highly unoriginal. Why do I believe this?I have long felt the “Inspiration” ( for a lack of a better word) for OMD was a 1985 movie called “I Dream of Jeannie 15 Years Later.” For those unfamiliar with the movie and the series I Dream of Jeannie, Jeannie in the final season marries her master ( Tony Nelson), but in the movie she must make a deal with the Haji (head Genie) for Tony to forget her ( and their son) in order to save his life.( sound familiar?). But of course, as Jeannie pointed out “It does not mean we cannot start all over again.” What is happening with Spencer is simply a variation of Peter and MJ starting all over again, and like Haji Mephisto will end up failing.
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Honestly I think that Sins Past is the WORST SM story EVER. It's simply awful, it completely destroys Gwen Stacy and Mary Jane for no reason at all. Gwen becomes a stupid girl who had sex with a 50 years old man without a reason cheating on her 20 years old boyfriend and MJ looks like a total b**** who knew everything and never told Peter. Also, the story is completely incoherent with lots of earlier stories. It's 100% garbage, terrible and offensive.
