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[QUOTE=Mel Dyer;4997743]Sounds like a great premise, going forward!
I think an iconic city would be great. I also think the WW comic's editors just think a town and supporting cast would be too much trouble to keep up with. Continuity requires real editing, real hours...etc. Maybe, they don't want to invest that in a book that has never sold, as well, as the Superman or Batman comics.[/QUOTE]
I don't really think editors are putting any man hours even into Gotham or Metropolis nowadays. I think Superman is getting an influx because Bendis likes exploring the infrastructure. That groundwork was primarily laid down by Byrne, although prior to that in the 70s there was a move to make Metropolis more cohesive and a real setting, which was no doubt spurred on by the same 1970s era in Batman. When Denny came onto Batman he started diving a little deeper, but Gotham wasn't really fleshed out the way it is now until he became the Bat-Editor, and it remained super fleshed out all through his Editorial Stewardship, right up to No Man's Land, and Brubaker & Rucka's New Gotham transitioned from there. Writers with a foot in that era like Morrison tend to at least play with the game board, but more recently there's not much consistency. Anyway, it seemed like Metropolis really followed suit. No surprise. Denny had his hands on Superman, too, as did the other like-minded writers and editors of the time, and yeah, Byrne really took it and ran, unifying a cohesive tapestry out of Superman stuff, Kirby stuff, and more. I think Paul Dini and the Animateds, since they drew so much on those eras and "showed them to us", the masses, really cemented that cohesion.
But you still see it when a good writer likes to use that kind of stuff. I think Williamson's Flash does a good job with Central (because the TV show, you know, showed us a cohesive setting and gave it a city identity. I think to some degree Johns did a bit of work with Coast, as well as Keystone back in the day, as did other Wally Flash writers. Dixon obviously spent a lot of time on Bludhaven, coming out of that Editor Denny era. Denny did it double because he did Hub City, too. And more recently Cam Stewart and Crew did a great job fleshing out Burnside.
So it's totally up to a writer, because I think editorial is just a lot more loose about it.
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Should Donna live in this same town? I think she can be just as jetsetting and global as Diana...just in smaller, more character-driven stories.
Stories, where she can hug you and call you 'hon'...
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It would depend on when Donna comes in. I would have her go to Holliday College also. I would have her stay in for a while until Teen Titans unless we have her go back and forth
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[QUOTE=Mel Dyer;5000898]Should Donna live in this same town? I think she can be just as jetsetting and global as Diana...just in smaller, more character-driven stories.
Stories, where she can hug you and call you 'hon'...[/QUOTE]
True.
My version of Donna is based out of New York for some personal and professional reasons, but also rolls up to Diana’s city and Themyscira often to check on her sister and her adopted mom and sisters regularly.
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[QUOTE=WonderScott;5000992]True.
My version of Donna is based out of New York for some personal and professional reasons, but also rolls up to Diana’s city and Themyscira often to check on her sister and her adopted mom and sisters regularly.[/QUOTE]
Interesting. I mean she technically could start off living with Diana for 1 or 2. I mean she likes Diana doesn't know much. The question is also who would be her Steve. I don't mean in romantic ways rather the bridge.
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If we’re not going to have Donna be the resident hero when Diana’s working off world or globally, we should find some secondary heroes that can step in and keep the peace, like Guardian is for Metropolis and Birds of Prey are for Gotham.
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So it should be a known Wonder Woman character. How about Cassie? Cassie should be born and raised. I mean Donna should live with Diana until Donna finds her own footing.
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[QUOTE=CRaymond;5001305]If we’re not going to have Donna be the resident hero when Diana’s working off world or globally, we should find some secondary heroes that can step in and keep the peace, like Guardian is for Metropolis and Birds of Prey are for Gotham.[/QUOTE]
Yes, this!
I have a list of established DC characters I’d move to the city, but I have several others (and a team) that develop in the city, because of Diana.
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5001038]Interesting. I mean she technically could start off living with Diana for 1 or 2. I mean she likes Diana doesn't know much. The question is also who would be her Steve. I don't mean in romantic ways rather the bridge.[/QUOTE]
I kind of think of Donna as the bridge, but I hear what you’re saying too.
I have some clear ideas of who her friends in New York should be, but I haven’t thought too much about additional romantic partners, past Angelo Bend’s interest in her.
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I don't want to blow us off-topic, but, Donna being a 'Gateway' resident is problematic for me. Donna needs her own role to play in the DCU, ..and I think she needs her own smaller town to do it in. Furthermore, I think the town should reflect or compliment her personality...the 'hon' thing, I keep beating you folks over the head with.
I don't think Gateway is the town that makes the most out of Donna or showcases her personality.
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[QUOTE=Mel Dyer;5002982]I don't want to blow us off-topic, but, Donna being a 'Gateway' resident is problematic for me. Donna needs her own role to play in the DCU, ..and I think she needs her own smaller town to do it in. Furthermore, I think the town should reflect or compliment her personality...the 'hon' thing, I keep beating you folks over the head with.
I don't think Gateway is the town that makes the most out of Donna or showcases her personality.[/QUOTE]
I agree but I think there would be no problem with her at least spending one year with Diana in Gateway. Not as a resident if that makes sense.
A second question would be should Steve be a resident? Or should he be born somewhere else?
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I like her being in Paris a lot. At least as a base of her operations/place to put her feet up.
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Okay Steve born in D.C moves to Gateway to start Argus
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Also generally some heroes live near each other. What hero would make for a good cameo ?
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I generally see Achilles Warkiller living in the city and hanging out with Diana from time to time.
I’ve considered moving Extraño to the city, for a bit of a magic element and supporting character in the title. My version of Extraño and Donna Troy become BFFs.
For in-universe politics and punditry, I’ve thought about moving Jack Ryder/The Creeper to Diana’s city. I like the idea of a television reporter (with a secret of his own) hosting a program with pundits commenting on and spinning whatever Diana does to meet their own ends.
There’s a team of allies I’ve been developing that rises up for a few specific reasons directly, and indirectly, related to Diana.
What I love about ARGUS is that it’s breadth is so wide in terms of what and who they’re trying to manage in the world, that it occasionally opens the door to have superhero specialists guest-star. I’d vote for Mr. Terrific, Doctor Light, and Bumblebee to guest star.
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I think Diana's city could help define her, as a character, and even help writers to develop her best super-villains.
For me, Diana's city - [I]Marston City[/I] or Gateway - is a port city for supernatural beings, ..like a classical Amazon freedom-fighter from a time-lost utopia, who have nowhere else to go. Like all immigrants, they've come to the city to make a better life for themselves, and Diana is the protectress of their hopes for the future. In the middle of all of that, DEO threatens their freedom, with its myriad plots to monitor and control the 'aliens' and 'freaks', putting Diana between her newfound friends ..and the awesome, hi-tech authority of the US military.
From [I]the stage[/I] of this iconic city, Diana's stories launch her into the wildest, far-flung, most imaginative adventures that DC Comics has ever published! From her myth-inspired origins, as daughter of a once-enslaved race, Diana travels the world and beyond, challenging all, who would subdue or terrorize others, ..as her own Amazon nation was subdued. The city, as much as her origin, serves to reinforce why Diana became Wonder Woman and what she is doing in Man's World. More than just a launching pad, the City launches Diana in a coherent direction that, for writers, ..shapes and informs her on-going narrative.
It irritates me to no end that the [I]Supergirl TV show,[/I] in one season, was able to realize that for DC Comics' girl-Superman, while Wonder Woman, DC's First Lady of Weird, continues to limp along, with no direction. What is worse, she's even given her own fictional, iconic city, something reserved for DC's top heroes, which happens to be called [I]'National City',[/I] which sounds so much like a caricature of Washington, DC, ..Wonder Woman's iconic roost, in the Golden Age. The [I]Supergirl TV show[/I] has even thrown in storylines involving social injustice issues and LGBT characters, making Supergirl the champion of the DCU's disenfranchised minorities - not the world-famous, freedom-loving Amazing Amazon...but, [I]Supergirl?[/I] It all just felt, to me, like a robbery of what could or should have been done for Wonder Woman, the first and best of female superheroes - without whom there might not be a [I]Supergirl TV show[/I] ..or [B]comic[/B] - a very long time ago.
Conceptually speaking, I felt [I]National City[/I] and the role it plays in that show ..should have been Wonder Woman's.
ARGUS, at its worst, like Supergirl's DEO, ..is just one more conquest-driven monster for Diana to protect all of us from. That is why I see it, at the center of Diana's city, where I think it serves to remind us [I]who[/I] Wonder Woman is ..and [I]why[/I] she is doing, what she's doing. Diana's archenemy, whoever that turns out to be (looks like Warmaster), should probably be a reflection or extension of that dynamic, in her enmity, with Diana. When Diana isn't battling her [I]female, Ming the Merciless/Vandal Savage[/I] combo platter (Clea, Atomia, Villainess X, etc), ARGUS and its X-Filesy presence should keep Diana's mission, on point, in her hometown. The iconic city should accomplish that, in the same way Metropolis and Gotham do for their respective champions.
That's what an iconic city, in a superhero comic, is for.
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Okay. While I don't think this should be a common thing. I had an idea that at least Athena would be living in Gateway. Any other mythical people or creatures you would want to be in the city. Also, would you guys like Artemis to live in Gateway
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5011480]Okay. While I don't think this should be a common thing. I had an idea that at least Athena would be living in Gateway. Any other mythical people or creatures you would want to be in the city. Also, would you guys like Artemis to live in Gateway[/QUOTE]
Would Athena be in human form, as Zola? I can't see Zola living, anywhere, but, Oliveburn.
Is it really that hard to just move her to her own fictional, iconic city ..or college? Are we still talking about this, in 2020?
Embarrassing...
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They don't know what to do with her. With Athena she does have a human form but not Zola. I don't know how to feel about Zola due to it being part of New 52. I was going to have Athena either be in charge of Marston University or the police force
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[QUOTE=Mel Dyer;5011233]I think Diana's city could help define her, as a character, and even help writers to develop her best super-villains.
For me, Diana's city - [I]Marston City[/I] or Gateway - is a port city for supernatural beings, ..like a classical Amazon freedom-fighter from a time-lost utopia, who have nowhere else to go. Like all immigrants, they've come to the city to make a better life for themselves, and Diana is the protectress of their hopes for the future. In the middle of all of that, DEO threatens their freedom, with its myriad plots to monitor and control the 'aliens' and 'freaks', putting Diana between her newfound friends ..and the awesome, hi-tech authority of the US military.
From [I]the stage[/I] of this iconic city, Diana's stories launch her into the wildest, far-flung, most imaginative adventures that DC Comics has ever published! From her myth-inspired origins, as daughter of a once-enslaved race, Diana travels the world and beyond, challenging all, who would subdue or terrorize others, ..as her own Amazon nation was subdued. The city, as much as her origin, serves to reinforce why Diana became Wonder Woman and what she is doing in Man's World. More than just a launching pad, the City launches Diana in a coherent direction that, for writers, ..shapes and informs her on-going narrative.
It irritates me to no end that the [I]Supergirl TV show,[/I] in one season, was able to realize that for DC Comics' girl-Superman, while Wonder Woman, DC's First Lady of Weird, continues to limp along, with no direction. What is worse, she's even given her own fictional, iconic city, something reserved for DC's top heroes, which happens to be called [I]'National City',[/I] which sounds so much like a caricature of Washington, DC, ..Wonder Woman's iconic roost, in the Golden Age. The [I]Supergirl TV show[/I] has even thrown in storylines involving social injustice issues and LGBT characters, making Supergirl the champion of the DCU's disenfranchised minorities - not the world-famous, freedom-loving Amazing Amazon...but, [I]Supergirl?[/I] It all just felt, to me, like a robbery of what could or should have been done for Wonder Woman, the first and best of female superheroes - without whom there might not be a [I]Supergirl TV show[/I] ..or [B]comic[/B] - a very long time ago.
Conceptually speaking, I felt [I]National City[/I] and the role it plays in that show ..should have been Wonder Woman's.
ARGUS, at its worst, like Supergirl's DEO, ..is just one more conquest-driven monster for Diana to protect all of us from. That is why I see it, at the center of Diana's city, where I think it serves to remind us [I]who[/I] Wonder Woman is ..and [I]why[/I] she is doing, what she's doing. Diana's archenemy, whoever that turns out to be (looks like Warmaster), should probably be a reflection or extension of that dynamic, in her enmity, with Diana. When Diana isn't battling her [I]female, Ming the Merciless/Vandal Savage[/I] combo platter (Clea, Atomia, Villainess X, etc), ARGUS and its X-Filesy presence should keep Diana's mission, on point, in her hometown. The iconic city should accomplish that, in the same way Metropolis and Gotham do for their respective champions.
That's what an iconic city, in a superhero comic, is for.[/QUOTE]
I love a lot of this and my take on her city includes ARGUS and some weird-meets-reality, in that I love imagining what politics and society would be like in a world with Wonder Woman. Life would be similar in some ways, but very different in others. That’s the world-building I want to see. Where it blends and where it comes into conflict. Gotham and Metropolis do that to some degree, but I don’t feel like the differences have ever been truly embraced, so that’s something I can see Diana leading with and exploring in her title in her iconic city.
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5011480]Okay. While I don't think this should be a common thing. I had an idea that at least Athena would be living in Gateway. Any other mythical people or creatures you would want to be in the city. Also, would you guys like Artemis to live in Gateway[/QUOTE]
Artemis might show up occasionally, but I see her as having a home base somewhere else and being a bit more of a world adventurer.
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One thing that I think is Transformation Island should be in Gateway. By that, it's in one of the dimensions. Diana doesn't have her own special place anymore for her villains.
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5012385]One thing that I think is Transformation Island should be in Gateway. By that, it's in one of the dimensions. Diana doesn't have her own special place anymore for her villains.[/QUOTE]
I think Transformation Island is absolutely an interesting aspect of Wonder Woman lore, but I like it as one of the archipelagos surrounding Themyscira.
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[QUOTE=WonderScott;5015283]I think Transformation Island is absolutely an interesting aspect of Wonder Woman lore, but I like it as one of the archipelagos surrounding Themyscira.[/QUOTE]
Maybe mixing it. Transformation Island is near Paradise Island. I mean maybe due to who is there transformation island is somewhat is it's own thing. If that makes sense.
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5016119]Maybe mixing it. Transformation Island is near Paradise Island. I mean maybe due to who is there transformation island is somewhat is it's own thing. If that makes sense.[/QUOTE]
My vision is it’s an archipelago off Themyscira and I’ve developed the island with its own origin story so-to-speak.
Your “maybe mixing it” comment has got me thinking that perhaps Diana’s city needs a rehabilitation center of its own - one for adversaries not destined for Transformation Island.
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[QUOTE=WonderScott;5017312]My vision is it’s an archipelago off Themyscira and I’ve developed the island with its own origin story so-to-speak.
Your “maybe mixing it” comment has got me thinking that perhaps Diana’s city needs a rehabilitation center of its own - one for adversaries not destined for Transformation Island.[/QUOTE]
Who would it be for? Maybe Transformation Island could be more of the magical foes?
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5017387]Who would it be for? Maybe Transformation Island could be more of the magical foes?[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure I would classify or categorize it that way necessarily. In some ways I want to think about the kind of help an adversary might need and that would be dependent on where they might be housed. I’ve being a lot of thinking about the Amazons approach to medicine, healing, mental health, etc. and how that might influence Transformation Island versus a regular prison in Man’s World.
I don’t think Diana would be impressed by Arkham Asylum or Stryker’s Island.
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I use to think that Diana didn't need a city, but as time has gone on I've come to appreciate the benefits that having a city of their own can have for a superhero. I think a lot of the issues that the character has had over the years can be tied, at least in part to the transient nature of the book. Cities can do many things for a character, but one of those things is attaching them to a particular place, and the supporting characters and locations in that place. The Marvel characters have New York City and all its iconic landmarks. Superman has Metropolis, Batman has Gotham. Even The Flash have Central City. City's in superhero comics tend to reflect their heroes in some way. Marvel heroes living in a real-world city kind of emphasizes the whole heroes with real-world problems that Stan and Jack were going for. Superman is called the man of Tomorrow so he lives in a futuristic city. Ideally, Wonder Woman would live in a real city that has a deep association with magic or myth, or an imaginary city with fanciful undertones. It would probably have a large immigrant population, and be either filled with overt sexism or have the thin veneer of a post sexist society. If done right, having a city of her own wouldn't limit the character, in fact, it would probably open the character up for more stories. You can also have the globe-trotting stories too. Having Metropolis doesn't hinder Superman from going out into space. It just gives him something to reliably come back to.
Most importantly it gives Diana something else to do other than save Themyscira, yet again.
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I feel like making up a city for her at this point isn't needed. Kal, Bruce, etc always had their made up cities. Diana has mostly had DC and Boston. Both cities steeped in history and culture (like Themyscira/ Paradise Island) and I've always loved the neoclassic architecture of Washington DC reminding Diana of home, and it's a sort of modern reflection of her island home... and of course it's nostalgic....heaven forbid
Giving her some made up city now feels like the constant tossing of her supporting cast and replacing it with a new group... just build upon the world she has and stop throwing stuff on her to see if it sticks.
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I'd have her live in Washington but operate in multiple cities, the ones she has the strongest ties with (Boston, Gateway, London). No need for another fictional city. From what I've seen, the strongest argument for giving her one is that it'll fix her mythos, make it more consistent, help define her character, ect...Which is quite ironic, the thing that'll supposedly fix her is the thing she never had for 80+ years of her history. It feels like another case of "let's change her origin to make her more relatable" or "let's make Grail her arch-enemy".
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Diana is a big enough character to support her own city that reflects certain themes about her, similarly to how Metropolis and Gotham do for their residents. There are a lot of real-world cities where I’d love to see Diana roll into town and interact with its inhabitants and intuitions. Washington DC is high on the list in the sense of Diana interacting with the federal government, given her mission and status as a family member of a constitutional monarchy - some interesting things to unpack there for one aspect of her character.
But, I really think Diana needs her own fictional city to really do the character justice.
1. Instead of giving her yet again another new cast of characters, it’d allow creatives and editorial the opportunity to merge a lot of Wonder characters and concepts into a single physical area and build off that... I’m talking about Ed Indelicato, Camille Sly, Micah Raines, Mike Schorr, Trevor Barnes, Helena Sandsmark, Myndi Mayer, Keith Griggs, Tod, Stacy Macklin, Lila Brown, Priscilla Rich, and other characters residing there.
B. A fictional city can better encompass all of what Diana is thematically and add to her world and concepts over time.
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[QUOTE=WonderScott;5018732]Diana is a big enough character to support her own city that reflects certain themes about her, similarly to how Metropolis and Gotham do for their residents...A fictional city can better encompass all of what Diana is thematically and add to her world and concepts over time.[/QUOTE]
I agree that Diana's city should have a role to play, in the broader DCU.
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I mean I don't know. Diana is supposed to be both in myths and real political. Why not have Gateway be a real city hiding within D.C? Like I said the other trinity has a city that fits them. So D.C doesn't have that. So if we have both Gateway and D.C has one that could work.
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Part of the appeal of Gateway as a magical hub city with a million ways to travel from location to location is that she can be in Gateway one minute and Washington DC on the other side of a door.
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[QUOTE=Mel Dyer;5019074]I agree that Diana's city should have a role to play, in the broader DCU.[/QUOTE]
I absolutely agree. And it *could* do that.
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Okay, why would heroes or villains go to Gateway? Okay if we take Diana out of the equation. It has mythical ideas. It has Marston University which should be considered one of the best. We have to make a reason why this city is important to DC. Even without people knowing about the hub.
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5020781]Okay, why would heroes or villains go to Gateway? Okay if we take Diana out of the equation. It has mythical ideas. It has Marston University which should be considered one of the best. We have to make a reason why this city is important to DC. Even without people knowing about the hub.[/QUOTE]
It's the DCU's most militarized city, with over-sized tanks, planes and cannons in the streets, ..as well as the port city for supernatural and weird beings...the Capital of Weird. Tabloids say it's sidewalk cafes are peopled with secret agents and time-lost and extra-dimensional visitors, like Diana. Basically, it's the Spectre's old, [I]supernatural super-city,[/I] but with a larger-than-life military presence juxtaposed, against it. This is why people come to 'Gateway'! Calling it [I]Marston City, Georgetown[/I] or [I]Holliday City[/I] would only make it something especially [B]new,[/B] for Diana.
It's the X-files Capital of the DCU.
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When I thought about the type of city. It should somehow be hidden. Like I said earlier. The city much like certain things only can be seen by certain people and others who they tell will never believe them. Like at first I thought it would be funny either Bruce or Clark should see it. Despite battling magic beings. I often think it would be interesting to see how they learn something from her.
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The more I think about it. Should Vannesa be the same age as Diana? Her and Diana going to Holliday College?