Why is it that DC can't stop making events every 3 seconds? Not everything in the DCU needs to be connected. And why is waid still writing WW into his stories, when he said he can't do her jusice, and never gives her anything important to do?
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Why is it that DC can't stop making events every 3 seconds? Not everything in the DCU needs to be connected. And why is waid still writing WW into his stories, when he said he can't do her jusice, and never gives her anything important to do?
[QUOTE=Frontier;6734604]I don't think Waid is going to be [B]that[/B] bad myself, but I'll hope for the best.
I think the nostalgia for DCAU Superman gets underrated.
It's just funny how Batman and Superman have characters connected to their own storylines while Wonder Woman gets...Amanda Waller.[/QUOTE]
and also a sword, and gauntlet bracelets, and surely a shield and a bloodthirsty personality :P
Waid wrote her well in the 80th anniversary and he has in the past expressed regrets for how he wrote Diana in Kingdom Come. I hope this is his redemption arc when it comes to Diana.
[QUOTE=Psy-lock;6734302]I'm surprised MAWS didn't win for Superman, I though the DCAU version wasn't particularly beloved? But Lynda Carter would be my pick for WW as well. It's the most unadulterated version of the character, before Warrior Woman, Daddy Zeus and Trinity shipping.[/QUOTE]
For most millennials the DCAU is the platonic ideal of what DC should be. While we hardcore Superman and WW fans have gripes about their portrayal, most people love that franchise’s take on the characters. MAWS would have to get a 5 season run to even begin to challenge the DCAU. Same holds true for the DCAMU (the animated move universe), plenty of people hate on it but to a lot of zoomers, that’s [B]their[/B] universe, it’s what they grew up on, and movies like Flashpoint or JL War get plenty of love.
I’ve made my peace with it even as I hope eventually it gets supplanted by something better.
[IMG]https://i.imgflip.com/8guzqf.jpg[/IMG]
I initially dismissed it as typical DC stupidity, but it actually is rather dumb that there's apparently no Wonder Woman rogue involved with Waller's [I]Absolute Power[/I] scheme considering it involves robbing the heroes of their powers. You'd think, given Diana's magic/divine powers, it would behoove Amanda to have a magic-based villain who knows Diana well enough to screw with her powers as opposed to Brainiac and Batman's other, [B]other[/B] contingency plan screw-up.
This can only mean we're going to get treated to Mark Waid contriving some nonsense explanation that will probably make zero sense, if not completely misinterpret Diana's abilities.
I mean this is the same guy who had Batman's brilliant contingency for Wonder Woman be "shoot a VR chip into her brain that makes her think she's fighting an unbeatable opponent, thus he competitive nature will drive her to overexert herself and die."
This is gonna suck so bad.
Wait, that robot is [I][B]another[/B][/I] Batman contingency plan gone wrong?
[IMG]https://media3.giphy.com/media/TJawtKM6OCKkvwCIqX/200w.gif?cid=6c09b9520npk1yhna1qto0lc2o8h631qc6tmkwnzar5f8gks&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6735025]I initially dismissed it as typical DC stupidity, but it actually is rather dumb that there's apparently no Wonder Woman rogue involved with Waller's [I]Absolute Power[/I] scheme considering it involves robbing the heroes of their powers. You'd think, given Diana's magic/divine powers, it would behoove Amanda to have a magic-based villain who knows Diana well enough to screw with her powers as opposed to Brainiac and Batman's other, [B]other[/B] contingency plan screw-up.
This can only mean we're going to get treated to Mark Waid contriving some nonsense explanation that will probably make zero sense, if not completely misinterpret Diana's abilities.
I mean this is the same guy who had Batman's brilliant contingency for Wonder Woman be "shoot a VR chip into her brain that makes her think she's fighting an unbeatable opponent, thus he competitive nature will drive her to overexert herself and die."
This is gonna suck so bad.[/QUOTE]
I think the main issue is Sovereign wouldn't make a good visual or might be wrapped up by the time this is starting.
Brainiac Queen and Zur-Bats is building off of stuff going on in those respective franchises, King might not have wanted any of his stuff involved.
Of course since you don’t like Waid Guy, I would say you probably wouldn’t enjoy anything he’d do with any Wondy villain anyway.
As a guy who does feel more positively towards Waid I do wish we could have had Cyber involved. She was the best revamp of Rucka’s run and no one has exploited her full potential since!
[QUOTE=Frontier;6735064]I think the main issue is Sovereign wouldn't make a good visual or might be wrapped up by the time this is starting.
Brainiac Queen and Zur-Bats is building off of stuff going on in those respective franchises, King might not have wanted any of his stuff involved.[/QUOTE]
Yes my hunch is King didn’t want to “waste” Sov on this. Or, they might be saving Sov to be the Big Bad of his own event, King did say he wanted his run to impact the entire DCU, that’s why he came back to the mainline after being at BL for so long.
[QUOTE=I'm a Fish;6735063]Wait, that robot is [I][B]another[/B][/I] Batman contingency plan gone wrong? [/QUOTE]
Yeah, I haven't followed it that close, but apparently Bats subconsciously created Failsafe as yet another contingency to defeat and humiliate his allies if they step out of line. And, just like the other times, it backfired.
[QUOTE=Vordan;6735069]Of course since you don’t like Waid Guy, I would say you probably wouldn’t enjoy anything he’d do with any Wondy villain anyway.[/QUOTE]
Got me there.
That reminds me--slight tangent--during the recent [I]World's Finest[/I] arc, I saw some people saying Waid might use it as a chance to address or rectify how he wrote her during [I]Kingdom Come[/I]. Of course he didn't, nor did I expect him to, but what if he had tried? Does anyone believe it would've amounted to any more than Superman and Batman lecturing her about how killing is always wrong and she should feel bad about herself?
Maybe it's better he left it at Darkseid smashing her into the ground and her sulking in the background...which, since I'm already complaining, seems to have become Waid's go-to way of avoiding having to write Diana any more than he needs: have the villain immediately crush her, sometimes off-panel, so the real heroes can save the day instead.
I'm sorry, but a measly Silver Age throwback in the 80th anniversary book doesn't impress me.
Anyway...back to my original point, at least magic might be a better explanation than whatever "clever" nonsense he conjures up to negate Diana's powers.
Or maybe it wouldn't. There is no bottom.
[QUOTE=I'm a Fish;6735063]Wait, that robot is [I][B]another[/B][/I] Batman contingency plan gone wrong?
[IMG]https://media3.giphy.com/media/TJawtKM6OCKkvwCIqX/200w.gif?cid=6c09b9520npk1yhna1qto0lc2o8h631qc6tmkwnzar5f8gks&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g[/IMG][/QUOTE]
All I know is Batman fans give Spider-Man fans a run for their money in terms of hating the main Batman/Spider-Man writer but yet still buy their book in massive numbers anyway.
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6735108]Yeah, I haven't followed it that close, but apparently Bats subconsciously created Failsafe as yet another contingency to defeat and humiliate his allies if they step out of line. And, just like the other times, it backfired. [/QUOTE]
Technically Failsafe was a contingency towards himself which it later revealed it was never intentionally made by him.
It was the creation of Zur, an artificial personality created by Batman who has since run wild and created Failsafe so he can transplant his mind into the robot so he can gain a body into the physical world without Batman holding him back.
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6735108]Got me there.
That reminds me--slight tangent--during the recent [I]World's Finest[/I] arc, I saw some people saying Waid might use it as a chance to address or rectify how he wrote her during [I]Kingdom Come[/I]. Of course he didn't, nor did I expect him to, but what if he had tried? Does anyone believe it would've amounted to any more than Superman and Batman lecturing her about how killing is always wrong and she should feel bad about herself?
Maybe it's better he left it at Darkseid smashing her into the ground and her sulking in the background...which, since I'm already complaining, seems to have become Waid's go-to way of avoiding having to write Diana any more than he needs: have the villain immediately crush her, sometimes off-panel, so the real heroes can save the day instead.
I'm sorry, but a measly Silver Age throwback in the 80th anniversary book doesn't impress me.
Anyway...back to my original point, at least magic might be a better explanation than whatever "clever" nonsense he conjures up to negate Diana's powers.
Or maybe it wouldn't. There is no bottom.[/QUOTE]
No one defeated Darkseid in that fight, you're getting stuff wrong. He trashed literally everyone, including both Supermen as they were nothing to him, and he was about to accomplish his goal of gaining an anti-life equation from Gog's mind. He was only stopped by Magog murdering Gog before Darkseid had a chance to read his mind.
What follows is everyone giving Magog grief for what he did. Absolutely no one gave any shade to Wonder Woman, and she was just as horrified as everyone else at what Magog did because he killed someone.
[QUOTE=Mantis-Ray;6735113]Technically Failsafe was a contingency towards himself which it later revealed it was never intentionally made by him.
It was the creation of Zur, an artificial personality created by Batman who has since run wild and created Failsafe so he can transplant his mind into the robot so he can gain a body into the physical world without Batman holding him back.[/QUOTE]
Huh.
I genuinely don't know if that explanation makes it better or worse.
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6735117]Huh.
I genuinely don't know if that explanation makes it better or worse.[/QUOTE]
Yeah Darkseid utterly wrecked both Supermen:
[IMG]https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/4g6hhP3tAW8zorAXRjUvxY.jpg[/IMG]
Haha I love that he freaking stepped on Clark’s body on the way to Gog. My opinion is Darkseid is not someone any single Leaguer can beat one on one. Hell even all together it should be a close thing. Mongul is the villain for Superman you can use for a pure physical brawl between a hero and a villain, and Grail is now the one you can use for Wonder Woman, but Darkseid should demand more effort. Darkseid wrecking everyone is fine with me.
Not sure how Darkseid wrecking other heroes invalidates my point that Waid's Wonder Woman is functionally useless in his plots.
In a previous arc, she got wrecked by Newmazo, and before that, turned to mud. Thus my point: Waid gets around writing Diana by having her get her ass kicked as quickly as possible. He could just NOT include her in his books and save everyone the trouble, but apparently that's unfathomable.
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6735129]Not sure how Darkseid wrecking other heroes invalidates my point that Waid's Wonder Woman is functionally useless in his plots.
In a previous arc, she got wrecked by Newmazo, and before that, turned to mud. Thus my point: Waid gets around writing Diana by having her get her ass kicked as quickly as possible. He could just NOT include her in his books and save everyone the trouble, but apparently that's unfathomable.[/QUOTE]
Because she wasn't treated different from anyone else, there is no point to be held here. This issue had Alan Scott Green Lantern in his kickass KC armor look getting thrashed same as Diana, and said issue also had Flash and Shazam getting their asses grassed as well.
Wonder Woman isn't treated any worse than anyone else. Again you bring up Newmazo, again I remind you that everyone was involved in that fight and she didn't do particularly any worse than anyone else.
Constantly whining that Wonder Woman isn't treated like an immaculate untouchable God every time she appears isn't a legitimate issue.
[QUOTE=Mantis-Ray;6735113]Technically Failsafe was a contingency towards himself which it later revealed it was never intentionally made by him.
It was the creation of Zur, an artificial personality created by Batman who has since run wild and created Failsafe so he can transplant his mind into the robot so he can gain a body into the physical world without Batman holding him back.[/QUOTE]
So he makes an AI that makes a Justice League contingency plan?
[IMG]https://media1.tenor.com/m/yQNhGq0p1qsAAAAC/will-ferrell-whats-happening.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Mantis-Ray;6735139]Because she wasn't treated different from anyone else, there is no point to be held here. This issue had Alan Scott Green Lantern in his kickass KC armor look getting thrashed same as Diana, and said issue also had Flash and Shazam getting their asses grassed as well.
Wonder Woman isn't treated any worse than anyone else. Again you bring up Newmazo, again I remind you that everyone was involved in that fight and she didn't do particularly any worse than anyone else.
Constantly whining that Wonder Woman isn't treated like an immaculate untouchable God every time she appears isn't a legitimate issue.[/QUOTE]
She gets the short end of the stick and jobbs more often than all the characters you mentioned. dceased, dc vs vampire, world's fines, injustice, jl movie, suicide squad game, for the man who has everything(both comic and tv version), and the list goes on.
[QUOTE=I'm a Fish;6735063]Wait, that robot is [I][B]another[/B][/I] Batman contingency plan gone wrong?
[IMG]https://media3.giphy.com/media/TJawtKM6OCKkvwCIqX/200w.gif?cid=6c09b9520npk1yhna1qto0lc2o8h631qc6tmkwnzar5f8gks&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g[/IMG][/QUOTE]
DC broke their universe. Batman’s prep time schtick along with the BWL has become so ridiculous that I can no longer read the comics. I don’t know what they were thinking.
[QUOTE=WonderLight789;6735176]She gets the short end of the stick and jobbs more often than all the characters you mentioned. dceased, dc vs vampire, world's fines, injustice, jl movie, suicide squad game, for the man who has everything(both comic and tv version), and the list goes on.[/QUOTE]
Superman has been jobbing alot too. Batman’s previous books under King and Tyson had him OOC and got his ass kicked alot. In Detective run, Batman is always being tortured, possessed, or taking a L. Wonder Woman never had her spine ripped out or pissed herself like Batman which is as disrespectful as you can get. Batman and Superman get higher moments, but their lows are the absolute worst.
[QUOTE=Mantis-Ray;6735139]Because she wasn't treated different from anyone else, there is no point to be held here. This issue had Alan Scott Green Lantern in his kickass KC armor look getting thrashed same as Diana, and said issue also had Flash and Shazam getting their asses grassed as well.
Wonder Woman isn't treated any worse than anyone else. Again you bring up Newmazo, again I remind you that everyone was involved in that fight and she didn't do particularly any worse than anyone else.
Constantly whining that Wonder Woman isn't treated like an immaculate untouchable God every time she appears isn't a legitimate issue.[/QUOTE]
You know "But other characters got shat on" isn't the great defense you think it is. Just means Mark Waid is a pretty mediocre writer.
And given that he's openly admitted he doesn't get Wonder Woman, nor does he know what to do with her, maybe he should just stop trying and stay in his goddamn lane.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6734913][IMG]https://i.imgflip.com/8guzqf.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I'd say thats about right.
Sampere nicely carving himself a place in great Wonder Woman artists.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/YlyNgPO.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6735244]You know "But other characters got shat on" isn't the great defense you think it is.[B] Just means Mark Waid is a pretty mediocre writer.[/B]
And given that he's openly admitted he doesn't get Wonder Woman, nor does he know what to do with her, maybe he should just stop trying and stay in his goddamn lane.[/QUOTE]
Not really no, but you're already predisposed to automatically despising everything so what can ya do.
[QUOTE=I'm a Fish;6735149]So he makes an AI that makes a Justice League contingency plan?
[IMG]https://media1.tenor.com/m/yQNhGq0p1qsAAAAC/will-ferrell-whats-happening.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
He makes an AI that is technically a contingency for himself, but for some reason is loaded with kryptonite daggers to kill Superman if necessary.
This is entirely on Chip Zdarsky, the idea of Failsafe as a contingency does not make sort of sense with how Batman's contingency plans are previously portrayed.
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6735244]You know "But other characters got shat on" isn't the great defense you think it is. Just means Mark Waid is a pretty mediocre writer.
And given that he's openly admitted he doesn't get Wonder Woman, nor does he know what to do with her, maybe he should just stop trying and stay in his goddamn lane.[/QUOTE]
Even if he hasn't consistently written Diana well doesn't automatically make him mediocre in my opinion.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6735112]All I know is Batman fans give Spider-Man fans a run for their money in terms of hating the main Batman/Spider-Man writer but yet still buy their book in massive numbers anyway.[/QUOTE]
I'm not buying 'em.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6735257]Sampere nicely carving himself a place in great Wonder Woman artists.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/YlyNgPO.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Does great action, characters, and expressions.
New character designs...not so much.
[QUOTE=Frontier;6735264]
Does great action, characters, and expressions.
New character designs...not so much.[/QUOTE]
I mean Perez and Jimenez are G.O.A.T.s but for every one they knocked out of the park there's at least two or three we don't speak of again. :p
[QUOTE=VaLoa;6735222]Superman has been jobbing alot too. Batman’s previous books under King and Tyson had him OOC and got his ass kicked alot. In Detective run, Batman is always being tortured, possessed, or taking a L. Wonder Woman never had her spine ripped out or pissed herself like Batman which is as disrespectful as you can get. Batman and Superman get higher moments, but their lows are the absolute worst.[/QUOTE]
batman getting his spine broken by one of his villains in which became an iconic moment for him is not an example of jobbing. WW's powers, skills and gear failing to get the plot going is an example of jobbing. Like in all the examples i gave. And their lows are not as low as what they do to WW.
[QUOTE=Frontier;6735264][B]Even if he hasn't consistently written Diana well doesn't automatically make him mediocre in my opinion. [/B]
I'm not buying 'em.
Does great action, characters, and expressions.
New character designs...not so much.[/QUOTE]
It makes him a mediocre Wonder Woman writer.
Folks if you don't like Waid's stuff just don't read it.
[QUOTE=WonderLight789;6735490]batman getting his spine broken by one of his villains in which became an iconic moment for him is not an example of jobbing. WW's powers, skills and gear failing to get the plot going is an example of jobbing. Like in all the examples i gave. And their lows are not as low as what they do to WW.[/QUOTE]
That “iconic” moment became a running gag and has been parodied in mainstream media for years.
You should read Killing Time. Batman was worfed by Tom King’s OC, The Help, who he couldn’t even touch. And had Catwoman in the same story manage to get a good hit on the guy.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6735514]Folks if you don't like Waid's stuff just don't read it.[/QUOTE]
Seriously. And just because he clearly doesn't click well with Wonder Woman, it doesn't mean he's a mediocre writer. After the travesty of what he did with Wally West, I wouldn't write off Tom King as bad overall just on the strength of "Outlaw," and his other GNs. Rucka also isn't a mediocre writer just because he writes a boring Superman.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6735282]I mean Perez and Jimenez are G.O.A.T.s but for every one they knocked out of the park there's at least two or three we don't speak of again. :p[/QUOTE]
What designs do you think Perez and Jimenez struck out on?
[QUOTE=I'm a Fish;6735149]So he makes an AI that makes a Justice League contingency plan?
[IMG]https://media1.tenor.com/m/yQNhGq0p1qsAAAAC/will-ferrell-whats-happening.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
More like "he invented an alternate personality, that invented an AI robot, that made a Justice League contigency plan".
[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6735545]Seriously. And just because he clearly doesn't click well with Wonder Woman, it doesn't mean he's a mediocre writer. After the travesty of what he did with Wally West, I wouldn't write off Tom King as bad overall just on the strength of "Outlaw," and his other GNs. Rucka also isn't a mediocre writer just because he writes a boring Superman.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I've had my fun/rants against Taylor but I haven't paid attention to anything he's actually written in two years. It's just mentally healthier.
[QUOTE=Frontier;6735551]What designs do you think Perez and Jimenez struck out on?[/QUOTE]
Perez - Silver Swan, Shim'tar, and Donna's early starfield look
Jimenez - Most of his Circe designs (though I wonder if that was supposed to be intentional), Artemis civie design
But like I said, still my favorites and don't takeaway from their Ares, Circe, Cheetah, or Historia designs.
[QUOTE=Zagre;6735590]More like "he invented an alternate personality, that invented an AI robot, that made a Justice League contigency plan".[/QUOTE]
Yeah I'm not a fan of Zdarsky's handling of "Batman's contingincy for himself".
Like say what you will about Tower of Babel, at least those anti-JL plans were consistently similar.
Here though Zdarsky made Failsafe an invincible God robot who can solo the DC universe. Its supposed to be a "deconstruction" over how Batman's over-preparedness and Batgod backfired on him with disastrous consequences, but honestly whatever intended metacommentary is rendered the book is just going unironic Batgod and falling into all the exact traps its supposedly criticizing.
Seriously Failsafe defeats Superman the second time by "attacking him with Kryptonian pressure points Superman never knew about". Yes Failsafe knows more about Superman's biology than Superman himself, its all incredibly contrived. I mean we criticize Sovereign for being a a bit of an obnoxious new character, but at least Sovy is getting defeats and admitting when things don't go his plan.
But Failsafe and Zur are infuriatingly invincible, everything constantly going exactly as they planned and with minimal effort. Its why I can Failsafe a God robot, cause the way its written has it immediately stomping everyone no effort like a shitty creator's pet.
Hope that Jurassic League animated movie gets made, despite my problems with Dead Earth I thought DWJ did a great job with Dino Wondy.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6735594]Yeah, I've had my fun/rants against Taylor but I haven't paid attention to anything he's actually written in two years. It's just mentally healthier.
[/QUOTE]
Been doing my best to follow that advice myself. Least Taylor will probably never write the WW book, but it’s likely he’s going to get one of the Superbooks at some point :(. Honestly I’d rather he just do his Injustice series where I can ignore him rather than having him on the mainline. Better for him and for me.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6735257]Sampere nicely carving himself a place in great Wonder Woman artists.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/YlyNgPO.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
He, Jorge Jimenez, Rafa Sandoval, and Dan Mora (I know you don’t like him but I think you’d agree that regardless of personal taste he’s an “A-List” artist in terms of sales appeal) are the new guard who are defining the look of DC in the wake of the previous icons (Reis, Mahkne, Fabok, Janin) all leaving DC or doing side books.
[QUOTE=Mantis-Ray;6735657]Yeah I'm not a fan of Zdarsky's handling of "Batman's contingincy for himself".
Like say what you will about Tower of Babel, at least those anti-JL plans were consistently similar.
Here though Zdarsky made Failsafe an invincible God robot who can solo the DC universe. Its supposed to be a "deconstruction" over how Batman's over-preparedness and Batgod backfired on him with disastrous consequences, but honestly whatever intended metacommentary is rendered the book is just going unironic Batgod and falling into all the exact traps its supposedly criticizing.
Seriously Failsafe defeats Superman the second time by "attacking him with Kryptonian pressure points Superman never knew about". Yes Failsafe knows more about Superman's biology than Superman himself, its all incredibly contrived. I mean we criticize Sovereign for being a a bit of an obnoxious new character, but at least Sovy is getting defeats and admitting when things don't go his plan.
But Failsafe and Zur are infuriatingly invincible, everything constantly going exactly as they planned and with minimal effort. Its why I can Failsafe a God robot, cause the way its written has it immediately stomping everyone no effort like a shitty creator's pet.[/QUOTE]
This is sort of why I stopped taking Batman seriously in the comics. The writers editors don’t care much about good stories but rather treat everything and everyone like a joke. Chip admitted to doing BatGod on purpose. And he personally doesn’t like Superman either. This is why I primarily focus on the content unrelated to comic books. I heard they only print them for copyright reasons not for true IP managements. I see it more like wattpad stores than anything that actually matters for the characters.
More stuff from that untitled OGN by Sylvain Runberg/Miko Montllo that I'm still not 100% convinced is real:
[url]https://www.instagram.com/p/Cu7WxjittFP/[/url]
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/F864RCV/Image.png[/IMG]
[url]https://www.instagram.com/p/Cu9J5fdNXdn/[/url]
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/KmwL6Wj/image.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=VaLoa;6735534]That “iconic” moment became a running gag and has been parodied in mainstream media for years.
You should read Killing Time. Batman was worfed by Tom King’s OC, The Help, who he couldn’t even touch. And had Catwoman in the same story manage to get a good hit on the guy.[/QUOTE]
Compared to WW. batman and superman are treated as royalty.