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[QUOTE=DisneyBoy;6716123]Hasn't there been talk that the upcoming merger will pretty much see Gunn ousted, along with his plans?[/QUOTE]
Nope. Zaslav chatted with Paramount about a merger, but said merger would leave Zaslav running the new company. No reason to think anything would change, plus Superman Legacy is already entering production. Gunn’s DCU will live or die by how that does, if it’s a success there’s no reason to believe that Gunn would be replaced even if Zaslav left and someone else took over.
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[QUOTE=PopQuezy;6716408]You act as if Gunn is some unknown quantity. He's been in the movie business for more than a decade, and I've watched several of his movies. I've also watched how his DC Films Studios has been just as chaotic with drama and ambiguity as the last few DC Films regimes. I don't like Gunn's humor, I don't trust Gunn to make strong female characters, and I definitely don't trust him to make a strong Wonder Woman film. I also don't like the casting decisions he's made thus far except for his Lois Lane.
If I'm incorrect, I will happily enjoy his content, but I doubt I'll be incorrect.[/QUOTE]
He's currently 2 for 2 in what he's made. He's made a Suicide Squad that people actually liked and his Peacemaker show wound up being especially good which surprised everyone who thought it was just a marketing vehicle for John Cena. Even the female characters in them are especially well-liked like Ratcatcher 2.
Technically he's already done better than the likes of Zack Snyder or Patty Jenkins who have at most one well-received movie to their name (Man of Steel and Wonder Woman 1).
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;6716442]I'm ambivalent regarding Gunn but it is far too early to call his regime chaotic.[/QUOTE]
There's already been drama with what he's promised people - Gadot. There was drama regarding what involvement Affleck would have in the new universe. Gunn said Affleck was willing to direct a film in the Gunnverse with Affleck immediately denying such a claim. There was a ton of confusion as to who will and will not be retained in the new Gunnverse - hence why we had the Gadot controversy in the first place. There was confusion as to whether it was an actual reboot or a soft reboot. There was confusion as to what will and will not begin the new Gunnverse since Gunn himself kept moving the goalposts because of his Twitter/Threads commentary. He has post saying Blue Beetle both will and will not be a part of this new Gunnverse. A couple of weeks ago there was some drama regarding Gunn confirming that Reeves refused to allow his Batman in the new Gunn universe. There was also drama with people being upset that he hired his brother to play Maxwell Lord.
This is all before the cameras even started rolling for Superman: Legacy.
I'll argue that is a bit chaotic for a new cinematic universe that hasn't even started filming for it's first movie.
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[QUOTE=PopQuezy;6716498]There's already been drama with what he's promised people - Gadot. There was drama regarding what involvement Affleck would have in the new universe. Gunn said Affleck was willing to direct a film in the Gunnverse with Affleck immediately denying such a claim. There was a ton of confusion as to who will and will not be retained in the new Gunnverse - hence why we had the Gadot controversy in the first place. There was confusion as to whether it was an actual reboot or a soft reboot. There was confusion as to what will and will not begin the new Gunnverse since Gunn himself kept moving the goalposts because of his Twitter/Threads commentary. He has post saying Blue Beetle both will and will not be a part of this new Gunnverse. A couple of weeks ago there was some drama regarding Gunn confirming that Reeves refused to allow his Batman in the new Gunn universe. There was also drama with people being upset that he hired his brother to play Maxwell Lord.
This is all before the cameras even started rolling for Superman: Legacy.
I'll argue that is a bit chaotic for a new cinematic universe that hasn't even started filming for it's first movie.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like the drama is primarily happening with the fans, not behind the scenes.
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[QUOTE=Mantis-Ray;6716494]He's currently 2 for 2 in what he's made.[B] He's made a Suicide Squad that people actually liked [/B]and his Peacemaker show wound up being especially good which surprised everyone who thought it was just a marketing vehicle for John Cena. Even the female characters in them are especially well-liked like Ratcatcher 2.
Technically he's already done better than the likes of Zack Snyder or Patty Jenkins who have at most one well-received movie to their name (Man of Steel and Wonder Woman 1).[/QUOTE]
You mean the movie that bombed at the box office only making 168 million worldwide. [url]https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl84510209/[/url] Wonder Woman 1984 released during the height of the pandemic in 2020 with the vast majority of the movie theaters being closed in the country and restrictions for the ones that were open, yet it still made one million more. [url]https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3624109569/[/url]
Or do you mean The Suicide Squad that received the same B+ rating as the original Suicide Squad film. [url]https://comicbook.com/dc/news/the-suicide-squad-cinemascore/[/url]
Or the one that couldn't even beat Mortal Kombat and Godzilla v. Kong in HBO Max viewership. [url]https://deadline.com/2021/08/the-suicide-squad-hbo-max-viewership-1234823567/#:~:text=EXCLUSIVE%3A%20Here's%20some%20data%20we,of%20release%20on%20the%20service[/url].
Or are you talking about the one that couldn't beat Wonder Woman 1984 in DVD sales or Bluray sales. [url]https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Wonder-Woman-1984-(2020)#tab=summary[/url] and [url]https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Suicide-Squad-The-(2021)#tab=summary[/url]
I think people wildly overestimate just how well-received that film was outside of film critics.
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[QUOTE=PopQuezy;6716507]You mean the movie that bombed at the box office only making 168 million worldwide. [url]https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl84510209/[/url] Wonder Woman 1984 released during the height of the pandemic in 2020 with the vast majority of the movie theaters being closed in the country and restrictions for the ones that were open, yet it still made one million more. [url]https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3624109569/[/url]
Or do you mean The Suicide Squad that received the same B+ rating as the original Suicide Squad film. [url]https://comicbook.com/dc/news/the-suicide-squad-cinemascore/[/url]
Or the one that couldn't even beat Mortal Kombat and Godzilla v. Kong in HBO Max viewership. [url]https://deadline.com/2021/08/the-suicide-squad-hbo-max-viewership-1234823567/#:~:text=EXCLUSIVE%3A%20Here's%20some%20data%20we,of%20release%20on%20the%20service[/url].
Or are you talking about the one that couldn't beat Wonder Woman 1984 in DVD sales or Bluray sales. [url]https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Wonder-Woman-1984-(2020)#tab=summary[/url] and [url]https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Suicide-Squad-The-(2021)#tab=summary[/url]
I think people wildly overestimate just how well-received that film was outside of film critics.[/QUOTE]
The first SS was not well-liked, the first WW movie was. His sequel faced a tough fight between the first movie and Covid. Even then he delivered the only successful MCU movie of last year, which had such great word of mouth it recovered from a weak opening due to franchise fatigue caused by how bad Ant-Man 3 was.
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[QUOTE=Vordan;6716509][B]The first SS was not well-liked[/B], the first WW movie was. His sequel faced a tough fight between the first movie and Covid. Even then he delivered the only successful MCU movie of last year, which had such great word of mouth it recovered from a weak opening due to franchise fatigue caused by how bad Ant-Man 3 was.[/QUOTE]
The first Suicide Squad and his The Suicide Squad received the same CinemaScore from audiences which I already linked. The first Suicide Squad also did well in DVD and Bluray sales [url]https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Suicide-Squad#tab=summary[/url]. It far surpassed Gunn's The Suicide Squad DVD and Bluray sales which I already linked. The first Suicde Squad was also a merchandising juggernaut, including Harley Quinn by far being the most popular costume for 2016. [url]https://www.teenvogue.com/story/harley-quinn-costume-halloween-polyvore[/url]
The first Suicide Squad also won an Oscar for costuming and makeup.
Lets's see: the first Suicide Squad was more financially successful at the box office, more successful in DVD/Bluray sales, more successful in merchandising, and helped transform Suicide Squad into a massive IP, including two spinoffs, a sequel, an HBO Max series, a video game, and a Justice League vs. Suicide Squad comic series with one of the most popular comic book artists attached to it. It also won an Academy Award.
Yet Gunn's The Suicide Squad is more successful because it has a higher Rotten Tomatoes score.
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[QUOTE=Vordan;6716509]The first SS was not well-liked, the first WW movie was. His sequel faced a tough fight between the first movie and Covid. Even then he delivered the only successful MCU movie of last year, which had such great word of mouth it recovered from a weak opening due to franchise fatigue caused by how bad Ant-Man 3 was.[/QUOTE]
I also didn't compare Gunn's The Suicide Squad to Wonder Woman but to Wonder Woman 1984. His The Suicide Squad still was not as successful as WW84 in the box office or in DVD/Bluray sales.
The Suicide Squad also hasn't gotten particularly high numbers on Netflix, yet Suicide Squad 2016, Aquaman, Black Adam, and Superpets have all been in the top ten in Netflix films. Suicide Squad 2016 peaked at 6 last I saw.
Again, how is The Suicide Squad more successful, except for Rotten Tomatoes score?
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[QUOTE=PopQuezy;6716521]The first Suicide Squad and his The Suicide Squad received the same CinemaScore from audiences which I already linked. The first Suicide Squad also did well in DVD and Bluray sales [url]https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Suicide-Squad#tab=summary[/url]. It far surpassed Gunn's The Suicide Squad DVD and Bluray sales which I already linked. The first Suicde Squad was also a merchandising juggernaut, including Harley Quinn by far being the most popular costume for 2016. [url]https://www.teenvogue.com/story/harley-quinn-costume-halloween-polyvore[/url]
The first Suicide Squad also won an Oscar for costuming and makeup.
Lets's see: the first Suicide Squad was more financially successful at the box office, more successful in DVD/Bluray sales, more successful in merchandising, and helped transform Suicide Squad into a massive IP, including two spinoffs, a sequel, an HBO Max series, a video game, and a Justice League vs. Suicide Squad comic series with one of the most popular comic book artists attached to it. It also won an Academy Award.
Yet Gunn's The Suicide Squad is more successful because it has a higher Rotten Tomatoes score.[/QUOTE]
Which is David Ayer is the one leading the reboot of the DCEU, right?
We also gonna ignore SS had as big a dropoff as [I]"Save Martha": The Movie[/I]?
All of SS's woes since 2016, such as HQ's movie going off like a dud and their currently flailing video game right now, goes directly back to the first movie being one of the worst films of the past decade.
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[QUOTE=Gaius;6716529]Which is David Ayer is the one leading the reboot of the DCEU, right?
We also gonna ignore SS had as big a dropoff as [I]"Save Martha": The Movie[/I]?
All of SS's woes since 2016, such as HQ's movie going off like a dud and their currently flailing video game right now, goes directly back to the first movie being one of the worst films of the past decade.[/QUOTE]
A big dropoff that still led to $325 million in the US alone. That's still almost double what The Suicide Squad made [I]worldwide[/I].
Harley Quinn is a dud, yet she's about to have an animated series in its fifth season. She's co-headlining a video game, and she's the lead of a spinoff film that still did better in DVD/Bluray sales than The Suicide Squad. [url]https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Birds-of-Prey-(And-the-Fantabulous-Emancipation-of-One-Harley-Quinn)-(2020)#tab=summary[/url]
She's still also a merchandising juggernaut who had the most popular costume in 2016.
No one here argued that David Ayer should be the lead of the new DCU, nor did I argue he was a competent filmmaker. However, I am arguing he delivered the more successful Suicide Squad film in every metric but the Rotten Tomatoes score.
I am also arguing that the audience response to The Suicide Squad is overblown since there are no metrics, besides the Rotten Tomatoes score, that it was well-received by the audience.
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The respective failures of Birds of Prey and TSS can be placed at Suicide Squad killing the hype for it and making them harder sell for audiences.
SS1 only made as much as it did on pure hype, the moment people realized its garbage its legs evaporated and it wound up technically underperforming. Its the same as Ant-Man 3 which did have a good opening weekend but the actual reception killed its word of mouth and people stopped coming in on succeeding weeks.
Also the Suicide Squad video game is about to be our first major video game disaster of the year and this is entirely placed on it being so obsessed with synergizing to the Ayer film giving it all the reasons people already disliked that film for.
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[QUOTE=PopQuezy;6716537]A big dropoff that still led to $325 million in the US alone. That's still almost double what The Suicide Squad made [I]worldwide[/I].
Harley Quinn is a dud, yet she's about to have an animated series in its fifth season. She's co-headlining a video game, and she's the lead of a spinoff film that still did better in DVD/Bluray sales than The Suicide Squad. [url]https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Birds-of-Prey-(And-the-Fantabulous-Emancipation-of-One-Harley-Quinn)-(2020)#tab=summary[/url]
She's still also a merchandising juggernaut who had the most popular costume in 2016.
No one here argued that David Ayer should be the lead of the new DCU, nor did I argue he was a competent filmmaker. However, I am arguing he delivered the more successful Suicide Squad film in every metric but the Rotten Tomatoes score.
I am also arguing that the audience response to The Suicide Squad is overblown since there are no metrics, besides the Rotten Tomatoes score, that it was well-received by the audience.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and as I said. SS being a largely flailing franchise since is because the of the first film being as reviled as it is. Make a bad movie that audiences reject after the first weekend and people won't go to the sequel.
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[QUOTE=Mantis-Ray;6716542]The respective failures of Birds of Prey and TSS can be placed at Suicide Squad killing the hype for it and making them harder sell for audiences.
SS1 only made as much as it did on pure hype, the moment people realized its garbage its legs evaporated and it wound up technically underperforming. Its the same as Ant-Man 3 which did have a good opening weekend but the actual reception killed its word of mouth and people stopped coming in on succeeding weeks.
Also the Suicide Squad video game is about to be our first major video game disaster of the year and this is entirely placed on it being so obsessed with synergizing to the Ayer film giving it all the reasons people already disliked that film for.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Gaius;6716546]Yes, and as I said. SS being a largely flailing franchise since is because the of the first film being as reviled as it is. Make a bad movie that audiences reject after the first weekend and people won't go to the sequel.[/QUOTE]
The film made nearly $90 million in DVD/Bluray sales. That tells me that people did enjoy the film. I assume people don't buy physical media for movies they don't like. Suicide Squad also did better on Netflix than The Suicide Squad even though they were released on the same day. Again, if the [I]audience[/I] likes the film more, then why isn't the audience watching the film they allegedly like more? Less audience at the box office, less audience in physical media, and less audience on Netflix. That doesn't tell me that The Suicide Squad is the more liked film by the audience.
Both of you keep saying how unliked the first Suicide Squad was, yet the audience habits don't agree with you.
Additionally, I can't find any mention of Peacemaker being one of the most worn costumes for 2021. Unless one of you can provide me a link, this says the audience of this allegedly better-received film chose not to watch it in a variety of media, [I]and[/I] they didn't even buy the merchandise/costume of the most popular character from the film.
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Also, according to this Forbes article, The Suicide Squad dropped a "record" 71%. [url]https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2021/08/15/box-office-suicide-squad-drops-71-black-widow-tops-tenet-f9-passes-500m-overseas/?sh=7d26ae2445e8[/url]
Again, how is The Suicide Squad the more well-received film by the audience when all of its metrics show the audience largely ignored or disliked it?
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Personally, I hated the second SS movie.
Meanwhile, in a Wonder Woman thread ....lol
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[QUOTE=PopQuezy;6716556]The film made nearly $90 million in DVD/Bluray sales. That tells me that people did enjoy the film. I assume people don't buy physical media for movies they don't like. Suicide Squad also did better on Netflix than The Suicide Squad even though they were released on the same day. Again, if the [I]audience[/I] likes the film more, then why isn't the audience watching the film they allegedly like more? Less audience at the box office, less audience in physical media, and less audience on Netflix. That doesn't tell me that The Suicide Squad is the more liked film by the audience.
Both of you keep saying how unliked the first Suicide Squad was, yet the audience habits don't agree with you.
Additionally, I can't find any mention of Peacemaker being one of the most worn costumes for 2021. Unless one of you can provide me a link, this says the audience of this allegedly better-received film chose not to watch it in a variety of media, [I]and[/I] they didn't even buy the merchandise/costume of the most popular character from the film.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PopQuezy;6716572]Also, according to this Forbes article, The Suicide Squad dropped a "record" 71%. [url]https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2021/08/15/box-office-suicide-squad-drops-71-black-widow-tops-tenet-f9-passes-500m-overseas/?sh=7d26ae2445e8[/url]
Again, how is The Suicide Squad the more well-received film by the audience when all of its metrics show the audience largely ignored or disliked it?[/QUOTE]
Dark Knight Returns made more than Superman II, but the latter is regarded as better. Money doesn't apply to how well a movie is liked.
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[QUOTE=PopQuezy;6716556]The film made nearly $90 million in DVD/Bluray sales. That tells me that people did enjoy the film. I assume people don't buy physical media for movies they don't like. Suicide Squad also did better on Netflix than The Suicide Squad even though they were released on the same day. Again, if the [I]audience[/I] likes the film more, then why isn't the audience watching the film they allegedly like more? Less audience at the box office, less audience in physical media, and less audience on Netflix. That doesn't tell me that The Suicide Squad is the more liked film by the audience.
Both of you keep saying how unliked the first Suicide Squad was, yet the audience habits don't agree with you.
Additionally, I can't find any mention of Peacemaker being one of the most worn costumes for 2021. Unless one of you can provide me a link, this says the audience of this allegedly better-received film chose not to watch it in a variety of media, [I]and[/I] they didn't even buy the merchandise/costume of the most popular character from the film.[/QUOTE]
And you keep wanting to ignore the SS plummeting at the box office after it's first week or how it's being a cinematic punchline had an effect on that HQ movie, The Suicide Squad, and now the video game that clearly models itself after.
I personally don't care about either SS, and I'm more than happy that the video game is likely the final nail in the coffin of this franchise.
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[QUOTE=LordUltimus;6716590]Dark Knight Returns made more than Superman II, but the latter is regarded as better. Money doesn't apply to how well a movie is liked.[/QUOTE]
This is an odd comparison. Superman II was released in 1980. Dark Knight Rises was released in 2012. We're talking about literal decades of inflation, rising ticket prices, and premium formats like IMAX and 3D for Dark Knight Rises. I've also never heard anyone compare the two films before this moment.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6716595][B]And you keep wanting to ignore the SS plummeting at the box office[/B] after it's first week or how it's being a cinematic punchline had an effect on that HQ movie, The Suicide Squad, and now the video game that clearly models itself after.
I personally don't care about either SS, and I'm more than happy that the video game is likely the final nail in the coffin of this franchise.[/QUOTE]
I'm not ignoring it. Suicide Squad fail 67% in its second weekend. I posted a link earlier in this thread that The Suicide Squad dropped [B]71%[/B] in its second weekend. Even using the second-weekend drop as a metric, The Suicide Squad fails in comparison.
Additionally, Suicide Squad made $133 million in its first weekend. It made $325 million total at the U.S. box office. That means even [I]after[/I] it's 67% drop - which is still lower than The Suicide Squad - the film still made $192 million in the U.S. That means even [I]after[/I] the box office plummet and the alleged rejection of the movie from the audience that you are arguing, the movie [I]still[/I] made more money in the U.S. alone than The Suicide Squad made worldwide.
Again, the only metric that suggests The Suicide Squad was better received than the first film is the Rotten Tomatoes score. Every other metric indicates Suicide Squad was more successful with audiences.
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Yeah and Ant-Man 3 made 476 million dollars yet everybody hates it.
Yes Suicide Squad 1 made money but 8 years down the line its a joke a of a movie infamous for having the worst cinematic incarnation of the Joker. The money is irrelevant at this stage especially since Ayer never got to do a sequel or anything.
Again stop bringing up the money we get it, it made more money. It doesn't matter.
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[QUOTE=PopQuezy;6716683]This is an odd comparison. Superman II was released in 1980. Dark Knight Rises was released in 2012. We're talking about literal decades of inflation, rising ticket prices, and premium formats like IMAX and 3D for Dark Knight Rises. I've also never heard anyone compare the two films before this moment.
[/QUOTE]
I'm including inflation. Counting inflation, Superman II made $593,072,019, while Dark Knight Rises made $1,180,348,316. In fact, Dark Knight Rises ALSO beat the original Superman even accounting for inflation, since counting that Superman 1 made $1,111,063,263. And I don't hear ANYONE claim that DKR is better than Christopher Reeve.
My point is: McDonald's is the most profitable restaurant in the world. Does that make it the BEST restaurant in the world?
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[QUOTE=Mantis-Ray;6716688]Yeah and Ant-Man 3 made 476 million dollars yet everybody hates it.
Yes Suicide Squad 1 made money but 8 years down the line its a joke a of a movie infamous for having the worst cinematic incarnation of the Joker. The money is irrelevant at this stage especially since Ayer never got to do a sequel or anything.
[B]Again stop bringing up the money we get it, it made more money. It doesn't matter.[/B][/QUOTE]
But I'm not only bringing up the box office. I brought up Suicide Squad having a better second-week drop. I brought up Suicide Squad winning an Oscar. I brought up Suicide Squad having the same Cinemascore as The Suicide Squad. I brought up Suicide Squad's better Netflix streaming numbers. I brought up Suicide Squad's better physical media sales, which shows people like the movie enough to add the movie to their physical media collection. I brought up the merchandising sales. I brought up the popularity of Harley Quinn. You say it was the "worst cinematic incarnation of the Joker," yet the Ayer/Leto version of the Joker costume sold well for Halloween that year.
Again, besides Rotten Tomatoes, what indicator says The Suicide Squad was better received than the Suicide Squad? The fact that no one can provide any data leads me to believe there are no such metrics.
I'm not the one focusing on the box office, but people are trying to present me as focusing on the box office because there is seemingly no data to refute my points. The Suicide Squad seemingly being better received as a movie than Suicide Squad is highly overestimated. Rotten Tomatoes is the only data that suggests such a narrative.
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[QUOTE=PopQuezy;6716683]This is an odd comparison. Superman II was released in 1980. Dark Knight Rises was released in 2012. We're talking about literal decades of inflation, rising ticket prices, and premium formats like IMAX and 3D for Dark Knight Rises. I've also never heard anyone compare the two films before this moment.
I'm not ignoring it. Suicide Squad fail 67% in its second weekend. I posted a link earlier in this thread that The Suicide Squad dropped [B]71%[/B] in its second weekend. Even using the second-weekend drop as a metric, The Suicide Squad fails in comparison.
Additionally, Suicide Squad made $133 million in its first weekend. It made $325 million total at the U.S. box office. That means even [I]after[/I] it's 67% drop - which is still lower than The Suicide Squad - the film still made $192 million in the U.S. That means even [I]after[/I] the box office plummet and the alleged rejection of the movie from the audience that you are arguing, the movie [I]still[/I] made more money in the U.S. alone than The Suicide Squad made worldwide.
Again, the only metric that suggests The Suicide Squad was better received than the first film is the Rotten Tomatoes score. Every other metric indicates Suicide Squad was more successful with audiences.[/QUOTE]
And again, like what's been brought up. You can't remove the context of Ayer's film poisoning the well and turning off audiences to seeing more SS or related movies. If it was as loved by audiences as you suggest, why didn't that translate to it's sequel Or the HQ spinoff? Or the video game?
The Transformer movies were infamously awful but they got to five films before audiences revolted, where was that for the SS?
And that's before even getting into the film being released when Covid was still a big concern for audiences, was r-rated, and the film being released simultaneously on HBO MAX. [URL="https://variety.com/2021/film/news/suicide-squad-box-office-delta-variant-covid-1235037074/"]Something not present in 2016. [/URL]
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[QUOTE=Gaius;6716702]And again, like what's been brought up. You can't remove the context of Ayer's film poisoning the well and turning off audiences to seeing more SS or related movies. If it was as loved by audiences as you suggest, why didn't that translate to it's sequel Or the HQ spinoff? Or the video game?
The Transformer movies were infamously awful but they got to five films before audiences revolted, where was that for the SS?
[B]And that's before even getting into the film being released when Covid was still a big concern for audiences and the film being released simultaneously on HBO MAX. [URL="https://variety.com/2021/film/news/suicide-squad-box-office-delta-variant-covid-1235037074/"]Something not present in 2016.[/B] [/URL][/QUOTE]
And again I mentioned Wonder Woman 1984 which released [I]before[/I] the release of the vaccine and opened with more than half of the theaters closed in the U.S. and stricter restrictions for theaters earning $1 million [I]more[/I] than The Suicide Squad.
Godzilla vs. Kong - $470 million
Dune - $402 million
Black Widow - $379.8
All these movies had Covid and Day and Date with a streaming service. Even by these standards, The Suicide Squad was still a bomb.
You say Suicide Squad was toxic, yet it still won a People's Choice Award, Two Teen Choice Awards, and a Critics Choice Award. All things The Suicide Squad wasn't even nominated for.
Suicide Squad was also nominated for three Grammy awards. Again, an accolade The Suicide Squad failed to achieve.
Suicide Squad was not as despised as people like to imagine.
The Suicide Squad was not as beloved as people like to imagine.
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Sorry for the double post
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So....um....
....you guys think they'll ever let Diana have her classic briefs back instead of the (useless) armored skirt?
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[QUOTE=DisneyBoy;6716712]So....um....
....you guys think they'll ever let Diana have her classic briefs back instead of the (useless) armored skirt?[/QUOTE]
I doubt it.
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[QUOTE=PopQuezy;6716521]The first Suicide Squad and his The Suicide Squad received the same CinemaScore from audiences which I already linked. The first Suicide Squad also did well in DVD and Bluray sales [url]https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Suicide-Squad#tab=summary[/url]. It far surpassed Gunn's The Suicide Squad DVD and Bluray sales which I already linked. The first Suicde Squad was also a merchandising juggernaut, including Harley Quinn by far being the most popular costume for 2016. [url]https://www.teenvogue.com/story/harley-quinn-costume-halloween-polyvore[/url]
The first Suicide Squad also won an Oscar for costuming and makeup.
Lets's see: the first Suicide Squad was more financially successful at the box office, more successful in DVD/Bluray sales, more successful in merchandising, and helped transform Suicide Squad into a massive IP, including two spinoffs, a sequel, an HBO Max series, a video game, and a Justice League vs. Suicide Squad comic series with one of the most popular comic book artists attached to it. It also won an Academy Award.
Yet Gunn's The Suicide Squad is more successful because it has a higher Rotten Tomatoes score.[/QUOTE]
I liked the first one better.
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[QUOTE=DisneyBoy;6716712]So....um....
....you guys think they'll ever let Diana have her classic briefs back instead of the (useless) armored skirt?[/QUOTE]
In comics most classic costume elements come back around eventually.
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[QUOTE=Mantis-Ray;6716494]
Technically he's already done better than the likes of Zack Snyder or Patty Jenkins who have at most one well-received movie to their name (Man of Steel and Wonder Woman 1).[/QUOTE]
Once again, this sheds light on how women directors in Hollywood are treated: Jenkins has one beloved crowd-pleasing, critically acclaimed triumph with WW, but after one flop, all her post-WW films were axed, and her career has been halted. Meanwhile, Snyder has three tepidly received failures that set the stage for the death of the DCEU and he is still getting work from Netflix, while Gunn fails with TSS (which lost more than 100 million, and despite critical hosannas, still was not as raved about as the first WW), and yet he gets the keys to the DC kingdom.
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[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6716777]Once again, this sheds light on how women directors in Hollywood are treated: Jenkins has one beloved crowd-pleasing, critically acclaimed triumph with WW, but after one flop, all her post-WW films were axed, and her career has been halted. Meanwhile, Snyder has three tepidly received failures that set the stage for the death of the DCEU and he is still getting work from Netflix, while Gunn fails with TSS (which lost more than 100 million, and despite critical hosannas, still was not as raved about as the first WW), and yet he gets the keys to the DC kingdom.[/QUOTE]
Jenkins also wrote and directed [I]Monster[/I], which got Charlize Theron an Oscar. 2/3 of her directed movies were well received and even WW84 wasn't the same level of joke that BvS was.
It does suck. [I]Rebel Moon[/I] also proves that Snyder being "meh" had little to do with any studio interference.
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Plus WW84 only flopped critically. It was able to do well enough in all other areas given the time for WB to initially ask her to come back for a third.
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[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6716738]In comics most classic costume elements come back around eventually.[/QUOTE]
Thing is, the Gadot outfit [B]is[/B] seen as her “classic” look now. That was most people’s first exposure to WW like how Reeve and Keaton were the first Superman and Batman people saw.
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6716962]Plus WW84 only flopped critically. It was able to do well enough in all other areas given the time for WB to initially ask her to come back for a third.[/QUOTE]
Typically what happens is a bad sequel to a good movie still makes money because of goodwill left over from the first movie. But then the sequel to a bad movie pays for the previous movie’s sins. I dunno how well a WW3 starring Gadot would have done, espeiclaly overseas given the impact of uh “recent events” in the Middle East.
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[QUOTE=Vordan;6717146]Thing is, the Gadot outfit [B]is[/B] seen as her “classic” look now. That was most people’s first exposure to WW like how Reeve and Keaton were the first Superman and Batman people saw.
Typically what happens is a bad sequel to a good movie still makes money because of goodwill left over from the first movie. But then the sequel to a bad movie pays for the previous movie’s sins. I dunno how well a WW3 starring Gadot would have done, espeiclaly overseas given the impact of uh “recent events” in the Middle East.[/QUOTE]
I think the reviews beforehand and word of mouth would've made/break the 3rd film. But yeah recent world events definitely wouldnt have helped.
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[QUOTE]even WW84 wasn't the same level of joke that BvS was.[/QUOTE]
No question, BvS was stupendously bad...but it somehow landed with more dignity than WW84 did. It had the conviction of what it was, and it was tonally in-step with the Man of Steel film.
Maybe it's because WW84 was a "girl movie" and therefore had people ready to chuckle from the outset. And no, I don't think the success of the first WW film meant that Diana suddenly instantly had everyone's respect. That film capably introduced her, but it would have taken another movie or two to cement her personality and traits enough that people would be impressed and excited about her franchise.
She tended to just pop up in the DC stuff and get applause for being the only lady in the room, and one who kicked butt, but seeing her go up against a villain without the benefit of a serious backdrop like WW1 meant the film had to be excellent.
I wonder sometimes if the flashy/fun 80s elements and marketing - even though they really didn't do much justice to the 80s either - only hurt the film, by making it seem less serious. We know the world didn't end in the 80s. So what possible adventure could Wonder Woman have had that would be important and comparable to her first?
Plus, Steve [I][I]having[/I][/I] to come back because people would have complained if he wasn't there otherwise also kinda cut her off at the pass. In hindsight, as much hope as I had for the sequel, there were a lot of iffy decisions being made. It would have been impressive if they'd managed to make it all work, but I think, given the foundation (80s cheese, a were-cat-woman running around, Steve having to come back and yet still "die" again) they were only creating problems for themselves. I'm glad they didn't try to go "grimdark" but maybe different elements needed to be there, for the sake of the franchise being successful and Wonder Woman becoming more of a "sure thing" in the eyes of the public.
[QUOTE]Thing is, the Gadot outfit is seen as her “classic” look now. That was most people’s first exposure to WW like how Reeve and Keaton were the first Superman and Batman people saw.[/QUOTE]
It has definitely landed, between the multiple appearances in movies, and in toy form, but people tend to mention Gal in the same breath as Lynda (thank god), so I think the true "Classic Suit" isn't about to be forgotten. Plus, Halloween costumes and merch with the DC Style Guide illustrations by JLGL are always in circulation. So I doubt the briefs are going to be forgotten.
I eagerly await the day they return LOL.
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This backlash to Batman's depiction in Kill The Justice League might make an adaptation of The Hiketeia even less likely.
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;6717436]This backlash to Batman's depiction in Kill The Justice League might make an adaptation of The Hiketeia even less likely.[/QUOTE]
Which is good. Knowing DC, they'd make it a WonderBat story.
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[QUOTE=Psy-lock;6717448]Which is good. Knowing DC, they'd make it a WonderBat story.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I've never had any faith the Bat fanboys who run DC animation would faithfully adapt a story where Batman not only loses a fight (twice, and with prep time) but is the one on the wrong side of the argument. It's pretty much the antithesis of modern DC adaptions.
They even changed the ending of Tower of Babel to make sure whatever mild consequences/slap on the wrist he suffered in the comic wouldn't be implied in the film.
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There is [B]no[/B] chance the DC animation department is making a movie featuring Batman where he kisses WW’s boot and begs for her protection lmao. Picturing the reaction to it does put a smile on my face though.
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[QUOTE=Gaius;6717587]Yeah, I've never had any faith the Bat fanboys who run DC animation would faithfully adapt a story where Batman not only loses a fight (twice, and with prep time) but is the one on the wrong side of the argument. It's pretty much the antithesis of modern DC adaptions.
They even changed the ending of Tower of Babel to make sure whatever mild consequences/slap on the wrist he suffered in the comic wouldn't be implied in the film.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's hilarious just how lopsided the DC animation is in favor of Batman.
Wonder Woman didn't even get to beat her evil counterpart in Crisis on Two Earths. Batman beat Superwoman and then the climax has Batman taking on the main villain in a one-on-one fight while the rest of the League just stays back.
And as you said, JL: Doom removes all nuance and makes Batman the morally right badass and the rest of the League as useless morons.
And of course it reached tipping point with the DCAMU where 12 out of 16 movies had a Batman character in the lead or co-lead role.
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[QUOTE=Laser_Man;6718316]Yeah, it's hilarious just how lopsided the DC animation is in favor of Batman.
Wonder Woman didn't even get to beat her evil counterpart in Crisis on Two Earths. Batman beat Superwoman and then the climax has Batman taking on the main villain in a one-on-one fight while the rest of the League just stays back.[/QUOTE]
Wonder Woman beat Superwoman in the climactic fight and also defeated Owlman before Batman fought him.
