Wonder Woman - General Discussion

I'll wait and see what Williamson is cooking before passing judgement even though DC's track record doesn't inspire much confidence.

I would say the JL isn't good for any member of the Trinity (though more so with Diana than any Superman and Batman):

-Superman: Frequently turned into a jobber so other characters can contribute. Or treated like a naive sap and is only nominally leader and never in action.

-Batman: turned into a paranoid nut job in order to make him fit the League when in his solo comics he is supposed to be just a noir themed detective in a bat suit.

-Wonder Woman: treated like a female Superman, jobber, Superman's baby mama, very little of her mythology makes it in (frequently in unflattering ways), written like a succubus for evil Superman or a fangirl for Batman.

Having read a lot of JL comics from the 70's all the way up to the end of the Detroit era plus being a fan of the JLA: Year One, I think Flash and GL should be the 'heart' of the JL team and should be at the center of running the team, not the Trinity, who should be off in their own corners of the DCU or running their own teams: Batman with the Outsiders, Superman with the Legion or the Superman Squad and Wonder Woman with the Holiday Girls and Justice League Dark.

As I recall wasnt one of the future state stories establishing some mysterious event wherin the Justice League wound up being disbanded only for a later generation to pick up the mantle?

A Mortal Kombat fan from Twitter suggested some Halloween skin ideas for a possible MK12. These include Kitana as Wonder Woman and Jade as either Nubia or Talia al Ghul.

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJT5uy1UcAEAd1-?format=jpg&name=small[/IMG]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJT5uyzVkAIjIJk?format=jpg&name=small[/IMG]

[url]https://twitter.com/oblivious_z/status/1483084764714131460[/url]

[QUOTE=Gaius;5902837]This and Trial has me now suspecting [I][B]the main book will pretty much become the Yara Flor Show[/B][/I] now when that's over.

Really kind of undercuts both Trial and Cloonan/Conrad's run at the moment for me if I'm being honest if that's what it's all leading to.[/QUOTE]

You mean the main Wonder Woman book?
Ugh. Why would they replace Diana in her own solo book with the dullest, most generic character to "grace" the WW mythos in a long time? I truly hope this does not happen....

[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;5903961]You mean the main Wonder Woman book?
Ugh. Why would they replace Diana in her own solo book with the dullest, most generic character to "grace" the WW mythos in a long time? I truly hope this does not happen....[/QUOTE]

What's generic about Yara compared to the rest of the Wonder Family. I love Cassie, I can see potential in Nubia, and I appreciate Donna, but in terms of mythos and characterization, they don't really stand out all that much.

[QUOTE=Alpha;5903998]What's generic about Yara compared to the rest of the Wonder Family. I love Cassie, I can see potential in Nubia, and I appreciate Donna, but in terms of mythos and characterization, they don't really stand out all that much.[/QUOTE]

Conversely, what is so great about Yara that they might make her the main focus of a Wonder Woman monthly instead of, I don't know, Diana?

There is room for all of them. There is no need to pit them against each other.

[QUOTE=BiteTheBullet;5904038]Conversely, what is so great about Yara that they might make her the main focus of a Wonder Woman monthly instead of, I don't know, Diana?[/QUOTE]

All of these theories are based on nothing aside form speculation. I've refrained from commenting until someone at DC says anything about replacing Wonder Woman.

[QUOTE=BiteTheBullet;5904038]Conversely, what is so great about Yara that they might make her the main focus of a Wonder Woman monthly instead of, I don't know, Diana?[/QUOTE]

Hopefully, this whole thing is indeed speculation and fanboy theories. I know that legacy characters is a common trope/gimmick in comic books, but I personally have no interest whatsoever in buying a comic named "Wonder Woman" in which the title character is not Diana.

I find it fun to speculate and theory guess but unless that justice league thing will be a few weeks thing if that and wont affect most books.
Their making an 'Aquamen' book coming out in a few months where the core premise is the two Aquamans are a team.
Flash currently has a book about how he has a family again and such. Which has only been going for a few months at that.

More relevant to us, the current writers have been building up a focus Wonder Womans interactions with other people and her supporting cast. I simply don't see them building up all of this when they have talked about further plans for these characters, and their interactions with Diana. This wont be like the Batwoman show where they tried replacing the lead character and expected the supporting cast to somehow all maintain the same relevence.

[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;5903961]You mean the main Wonder Woman book?
Ugh. Why would they replace Diana in her own solo book with the dullest, most generic character to "grace" the WW mythos in a long time? I truly hope this does not happen....[/QUOTE]

The writer of Action Comics has said this won't effect his stories for Clark and as Fuzzy Mittens brought up DC is launching an Aquamen book at the moment with Arthur as a co-lead. So I would hope that means the same is true for WW.

But yeah, otherwise I'm with you I wouldn't be interested in a Yara Flor-led, or even co-lead, based on her current resume.

[QUOTE=John Venus;5903220]I'll wait and see what Williamson is cooking before passing judgement even though DC's track record doesn't inspire much confidence.

I would say the JL isn't good for any member of the Trinity (though more so with Diana than any Superman and Batman):

-Superman: Frequently turned into a jobber so other characters can contribute. Or treated like a naive sap and is only nominally leader and never in action.

-Batman: turned into a paranoid nut job in order to make him fit the League when in his solo comics he is supposed to be just a noir themed detective in a bat suit.

-Wonder Woman: treated like a female Superman, jobber, Superman's baby mama, very little of her mythology makes it in (frequently in unflattering ways), written like a succubus for evil Superman or a fangirl for Batman.

[b]Having read a lot of JL comics from the 70's all the way up to the end of the Detroit era plus being a fan of the JLA: Year One, I think Flash and GL should be the 'heart' of the JL team and should be at the center of running the team, not the Trinity, who should be off in their own corners of the DCU or running their own teams: Batman with the Outsiders, Superman with the Legion or the Superman Squad and Wonder Woman with the Holiday Girls.[/b][/QUOTE]

Agreed. I like the Trinity in their own respective books outside of the JL proper. I did like Diana in the JL Dark though. Was bummed when it became a backup to the main JL book.

[img]https://www.previewsworld.com/SiteImage/MainImage/STL214557.jpg[/img]

Well looks like we're about to have a good ole superhero vs superhero in the vampire comic

[QUOTE=The Frog Bros;5904304]Agreed. I like the Trinity in their own respective books outside of the JL proper. I did like Diana in the JL Dark though. Was bummed when it became a backup to the main JL book.[/QUOTE]

I forgot about JLD. I would love it if it became a tertiary WW title as well.

[URL="https://www.superherohype.com/geek-culture/510489-wonder-woman-statue-by-tweeterhead-comes-in-two-sizes#/slide/7"]New Wonder Woman statue by Tweeterhead[/URL]

[IMG]https://cdn1-www.superherohype.com/assets/uploads/gallery/tweeterhead-wonder-woman-maquette/272793280_4906454179416383_3527772837645427418_n.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdn1-www.superherohype.com/assets/uploads/gallery/tweeterhead-wonder-woman-maquette/272765143_4906453899416411_1838499765920371961_n.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdn1-www.superherohype.com/assets/uploads/gallery/tweeterhead-wonder-woman-maquette/272683498_4906455202749614_8796590674237512727_n.jpg[/IMG]

This is a powerful-looking piece!

I like the long-spear, sword, and axe swap-outs.

[QUOTE=Gaius;5915291][URL="https://www.superherohype.com/geek-culture/510489-wonder-woman-statue-by-tweeterhead-comes-in-two-sizes#/slide/7"]New Wonder Woman statue by Tweeterhead[/URL]

[IMG]https://cdn1-www.superherohype.com/assets/uploads/gallery/tweeterhead-wonder-woman-maquette/272793280_4906454179416383_3527772837645427418_n.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdn1-www.superherohype.com/assets/uploads/gallery/tweeterhead-wonder-woman-maquette/272765143_4906453899416411_1838499765920371961_n.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdn1-www.superherohype.com/assets/uploads/gallery/tweeterhead-wonder-woman-maquette/272683498_4906455202749614_8796590674237512727_n.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Six pack!!

[QUOTE=Hypo;5878803]This is out this week I believe:

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/rweXmnz.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVupyKeHdXw[/url]

I want to voice my appreciation for these omnibus. I like not being the only one whose read all of Wonder Woman

I hope I'll live to see the Bronze Age fully collected. An underrated era!

Indeed!
People seem to assume that Perez's run was created wholly from a vacuum and don't realize how much he borrowed from the Conway and Mishkin runs when crafting his amazing take
Makes the elements that Perez did come up with himself stand out all the more in my eyes

[QUOTE=Fuzzy Mittens;5919435]Indeed!
People seem to assume that Perez's run was created wholly from a vacuum and don't realize how much he borrowed from the Conway and Mishkin runs when crafting his amazing take
Makes the elements that Perez did come up with himself stand out all the more in my eyes[/QUOTE]

What is the era called up to when Wonder Woman was rebooted under Perez? I am talking about pre-Perez and gliding on currents Wonder Woman. I would hope they make an omnibus of that era (70's to mid 80's)

Unsure to be honest.
People equate Kanighers run to the silver age and the mod era as the start of her bronze age. However the mod era was in '68 and people seemingly just lump that entire 68'-86 as her bronze age

[QUOTE=Psy-lock;5919429]I hope I'll live to see the Bronze Age fully collected. An underrated era![/QUOTE]

Here in my country in 2010 the work of Gene Colan in Wonder Woman was compiled in a kind of omnibus, from issue #288 to 305, the scripts and the drawings fascinate me, and there I really discovered how Perez was so inspired by that era. It is amazing!

[QUOTE=Fuzzy Mittens;5919495]Unsure to be honest.
People equate Kanighers run to the silver age and the mod era as the start of her bronze age. However the mod era was in '68 and people seemingly just lump that entire 68'-86 as her bronze age[/QUOTE]

Thanks, but it sounds like to me we will probably never get the omnibus that I want :(

[QUOTE=Sebastianne;5919713]Here in my country in 2010 the work of Gene Colan in Wonder Woman was compiled in a kind of omnibus, from issue #288 to 305, the scripts and the drawings fascinate me, and there I really discovered how Perez was so inspired by that era. It is amazing![/QUOTE]

I love Gene Colan's heavy lines and dramatic style!

So where we ranking this in terms of alt universe Wonder Women:

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/D4nWKMd.png?1[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Fuzzy Mittens;5904091]I find it fun to speculate and theory guess but unless that justice league thing will be a few weeks thing if that and wont affect most books.
Their making an 'Aquamen' book coming out in a few months where the core premise is the two Aquamans are a team.
Flash currently has a book about how he has a family again and such. Which has only been going for a few months at that.

More relevant to us, the current writers have been building up a focus Wonder Womans interactions with other people and her supporting cast. I simply don't see them building up all of this when they have talked about further plans for these characters, and their interactions with Diana. This wont be like the Batwoman show where they tried replacing the lead character and expected the supporting cast to somehow all maintain the same relevence.[/QUOTE]

I think Conrad/Cloonan and company, with TOTA, are creating an opportunity to show the purpose or relevance of the Wonder Woman family characters, respectively. Hopefully, Yara will come out of this, with a narratively sustainable purpose, beyond representing what racial and multicultural diversity looks like, in a Wonder-uniform.

I think the idea, with Yara, was that she should represent or be an avatar for young people of color and, specifically, ..young women. Let me say, emphatically, ..I think that is just fine, considering that Mary Marvel, Supergirl, Bat-Girl and the rest were created for similar reasons and have enjoyed decades of inspiring girls and women to imagine being powerful and important ..and charged with great purpose. Past the crafting of a marvelous origin for Yara, which plugs her into the mythos - a good send-off - I don't think much thought was given.

Now, what do they do, with her?

Will Yara become the ideological and symbolic superheroine, on a smaller, regional scale, that Dr. Marston created Wonder Woman to be, in World War II? Will she live in some place, where her Wonder-situation uplifts, empowers or inspires young women of color - and even more specifically, LATINAS - in their struggle to create a free and hopeful existence, for themselves and their families?

For Latinos - my great grandaunt was real-life, black and Mexican American, migrant worker heroine, [B]Mentha Dyer Morrison[/B] - uplift is always going to be about our [B]families,[/B] as well as our individual progress, ..and in exactly that order. Through that uplift, even when inspired by something in the arts, our communities are positively transformed. The challenge: how to get a story out of that imperative for Yara, which is entertaining and relevant to ALL readers, without turning Yara's stories, ..into preachy pamphlets. Whoever is writing Yara must understand all of this, if her unique relevance will ever be realized.

As much, as I dread the thought of [I]another[/I] Wonder-heroine, in an urban setting and in stories reflecting urban values and ambitions - the presumed supremacy of the urban American experience - I imagine politically conscious writers will make Yara a creature of the cities, like Black Lightning was in his earliest stories. She will be written, taking stands on socio-economic justice (including police brutality), LGBTQA understanding, fighting poverty and gender equality, ..and I imagine this will become Yara's unique role in the DCu and the Wonderverse, for the foreseeable future...

Otherwise, she's just the pretty, new, [B]ethnic Wonder Girl,[/B] with the big bottom. Like Diana, Yara needs a purpose - Yara's purpose, addressed in some way, [I]very similar[/I] to the one I described, before she can carry a WG comic, ..something I would LOVE to see that happen. All things considered and to get back to the OP's topic...

No, I don't think Yara Flor is ready to take over, as Wonder Woman.

[QUOTE=Alpha;5903998]What's generic about Yara compared to the rest of the Wonder Family. I love Cassie, I can see potential in Nubia, and I appreciate Donna, but in terms of mythos and characterization, they don't really stand out all that much.[/QUOTE]

I agree, Alpha. Yara's got a fine backstory - daughter of a Perez Amazon and the king of the Amazon River gods, adopted by mortals and trained on Olympus. Donna's and Cassie's stories are comparatively generic, against Yara's.

The problem with Yara has been writers figuring out what to do with her, as is. Wonder Woman and Donna have on-going narratives, driven by strong ideas of what their purpose is, in their respective mythoses and the larger DCU. Yara, comparatively speaking...doesn't?

And on a sidenote, I would really like to see some writer get Wonder Woman out of Washington, away from the looming spectre of the US government and the military, and out into the American West or Southwest. I would like to see a good writer return Etta Candy to her roots, as a rural-origin character, and to see an on-going narrative built around Diana's enduring friendship, with her. Between leaps into lost civilizations, time warps and gods know what else, writers might build a new narrative, around the struggles of people (white, brown, Asian and all colors), in the American West and further South.

I want to see Wonder Woman and the Wonder Girls carry their patriotic colors, sparkly costumes and powers into places, where they mean [B]nothing[/B] ..and [I]make them[/I] mean something. That was the Marston Golden Age. That's what jumping into subatomic universes, on giant kangaroos, was all about, and what the Cloonrad machine recaptured, with [I]Wonder Woman: Afterworlds.[/I] I don't think that's happening in Washington or Gateway City or Boston, and I don't think it will ..or has to. With Yara, on board, as new, Latinex Wonder Girl, ..perhaps, Wonder Woman's mission could find new impact, out of the big, important cities...

In some place, new and [B]different.[/B]

[QUOTE=Hypo;5924271]So where we ranking this in terms of alt universe Wonder Women:

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/D4nWKMd.png?1[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Well, it's a DC Elseworld not written by Tom Taylor, so maybe she has a chance of being good. But [I]Dead Earth[/I] **** the bed in it's last two issues.

But it's a also a Dinosaur, so that on that basis it's in the positive range.

[QUOTE=rubyruby;5924305]It is just that your acting is shaky. It was a pretty boring movie and the ending was nonsense but a little forced because bringing back this franchise demands three movies and two sequels and they had to do this for money I suppose. It just didn't make sense and how literally everyone in the world did not find this land in seconds. Also can you look at the Wonder Woman comic books and respect those just a little?[/QUOTE]

Truthfully, RubyRuby, I still don't know what WW84 was about or intended to accomplish. I don't even think it was a good Steve-Diana story, as a romantic adventure fantasy. KRULL and GHOST and even the first WW film (2017)are good romantic adventures, that put lovers, in the middle of a story - WW84 doesn't come close to either of these films, in what it does, with Steve and Diana.

I am looking, at the comic. I think the creative team needs time to accomplish, what they have said (in interviews), they want to, ..and I'm giving them [B]time.[/B]

So it is canon that Diana is in the patriarcal world since WWII?

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ZQ11m5F.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/LGuDb4j.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Sebastianne;5924890]So it is canon that Diana is in the patriarcal world since WWII?

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ZQ11m5F.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/LGuDb4j.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://c.tenor.com/zySGP75JLWgAAAAM/well-yes-but-actually-no-well-yes.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Hypo;5924271]So where we ranking this in terms of alt universe Wonder Women:

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/D4nWKMd.png?1[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Well I’m ranking it on “shut-up and take my money DC”. This is the best idea they’ve had in decades.

[QUOTE=I'm a Fish;5924899][IMG]https://c.tenor.com/zySGP75JLWgAAAAM/well-yes-but-actually-no-well-yes.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://c.tenor.com/iVSwWjuh-jUAAAAC/not-sure.gif[/IMG]

Honestly, DC's approach to Diana in World War II seems more like an effort to have their cake and eat it, too.

She's in WWII but they won't bother explaining how Steve Trevor's alive. I'm pretty sure Barbara and Etta are still canonically among Diana's first friends in the Man's World, but they're still alive. For that matter, is Cheetah hundreds of years old now, too? I'll grant becoming cursed could make her immortal as well, but that seems like something that should be clarified. Is Priscilla Rich canon?

We're led to believe the outfit she wears now is the outfit she left Themyscira in, but with the exception of the page posted above, whenever they show a flashback of WWII, she's dressed like she did in the Golden Age. Isn't there lore behind Diana's armor? Did the Amazons insist she wear a pleated skirt so as not to offend the sensibilities of the 40's, but somewhere along the way decided she should return to her roots and wear something more Greek?


It's so stupid and unnecessary.

These things are like winks to the audience. Should someone be interested in actually exploring them, they could come up with multiple reasons why Steve/Etta werent there back in the past.

Ill go with my own headcanon of Steves grandmother crashing on PI, taking Diana back with her and giving Diana something a bit more "american" to wear before she decides that it isnt for her and changes into her Amazon gear. Its easy to explain any of it away but once again...no one is really going to bother with her origin anytime soon in this "everything is in continuity" phase DC is in.

It's left ambigiously enough that they could go either way. Diana could be in WW2 but it could also be any war set about any part of Eastern Europe.

It could also just be a reference to past canon when WW was in WW2 since everything is canon now.

Both One-Star Squadron and that other comic (I’m guessing it’s Sensational WW?) are of dubious canon. Right now it’s “all” canon, so some writers can say Diana is from WWII and others can still treat Rucka’s origin as being her canon beginning.

[QUOTE=Vordan;5926350]Both One-Star Squadron and that other comic (I’m guessing it’s Sensational WW?) are of dubious canon. Right now it’s “all” canon, so some writers can say Diana is from WWII and others can still treat Rucka’s origin as being her canon beginning.[/QUOTE]

Basically every title operates more like an fan fic on ff.net than a functional shared universe. Some of them are connected, some of them aren't, some of them references canon, others don't and end up going off on their own tangent. In some stories, the characters are in-character but in others they are not.