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[QUOTE=masterwitcher88;6297357]who would be the best fighter in the air? How does one keep tabs on this?
Seriously hate stuff like this, some characters should just be as they are, Flash and Batman are legit the only people I can think of needing something like this in the league.[/QUOTE]
No idea. It's the same creatively dead mindset that got us Daddy Zeus instead of brought to life as clay by the Goddesses because it's "simplified".
[QUOTE=masterwitcher88;6297248]If Diana can fly and is invulnerable to bullets, she's just Superman with tits, end of discussion. That's all it takes, nothing else but those things. No need to think any deeper than that.[/QUOTE]
We don't need to turn this into a discussion but that's definitely not what I was saying
I've always thought the "super hero speciation" to be superficial and detrimental. These are characters, not packaged superpowers, use them [I]as characters[/I] and it'll be fine. Sueprman and Wonder Woman don't do the same things because they've got different senses, education, abilities (beyond jsut the super-powers thing) even biases. If you can't differentiate between them in your script, maybe you aren't great at writing teams.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6297331]Reminds of me of how Jimenez said in an interview with KSD how when DC editors and writers were trying to narrow down each role of the "Big 7" on the League the best they could come up with Wonder Woman was "Best Fighter[SIZE=1] on the ground only[/SIZE] in the DC Universe".
Had to laugh with DeConnick said she was surprised DC didn't go with "the most prettiest". I'm surprised they didn't go with that.[/QUOTE]
[B]Bruce Timm:[/B] She's the one who loves Batman.
[B]Geoff Johns/Mark Waid:[/B] She's the one who stabs people. And loves Superman.
[B]Tom Taylor:[/B] She's the one who stabs people. And loves Superman. And Batman. And Supergirl.
[QUOTE=Zagre;6297948][B]Bruce Timm:[/B] She's the one who loves Batman.
[B]Geoff Johns/Mark Waid:[/B] She's the one who stabs people. And loves Superman.
[B]Tom Taylor:[/B] She's the one who stabs people. And loves Superman. And Batman. And Supergirl.[/QUOTE]
The Bad, The Worse, and The Ugly. :p
[IMG]https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/ioyp5HmFk7eqMXs7GdqFiB-1200-80.jpg.webp[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Gaius;6298650]
[IMG]https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/ioyp5HmFk7eqMXs7GdqFiB-1200-80.jpg.webp[/IMG][/QUOTE]
This is SO CUTE!! Love everything about it. Where is it from?
Earth Mother Diana is the best Diana.
[QUOTE=bardkeep;6298668]This is SO CUTE!! Love everything about it. Where is it from?
Earth Mother Diana is the best Diana.[/QUOTE]
Variant for a spring-themed DC holiday special in March.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6298682]Variant for a spring-themed DC holiday special in March.[/QUOTE]
WW will also be appearing in a story in that anthology - not just on the variant:
[URL="https://www.gamesradar.com/move-over-legion-of-doom-here-comes-dcs-legion-of-bloom/"]Move over Legion of Doom, here comes DC's Legion of Bloom[/URL]
[QUOTE]"How do you announce winter is coming to an end? You spring it on them!" reads DC's description of the special.
"Welcome the springtime with a celebration of DC's greenest and greatest. As the flowers bloom, breathe in that Swamp Thing smell. Watch the Blue Beetles fly out from Titans West. Pick a Captain Carrot or two from Floronic Man's garden, but make sure to avoid the Poison Ivy. The season may go by in a Flash, but don’t worry—stories like these last forever. Oh, and Wonder Woman will be there, too!"[/QUOTE]
Old comics had it right, E1 WW being Furys "Aunt" Diana.
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ktwY_mjPpK29gq2nJTjfFoz--xoMQ-RdpZ7U41MCtyCCaGw2SkxLyp8mCOhtirCHC6awXo5Xv1Z6dTYoRdJHd6tZGvQpVM3PMSbJDo8ZY0Q5qzsm6Zc3W8jnZmQMPLxAfQvzqLtiDg=s0?rhlupa=MjcuNjguMTM4LjI2&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKExpbnV4OyBBbmRyb2lkIDYuMC4xOyBTTS1KNTEwRk4gQnVpbGQvTU1CMjlNKSBBcHBsZVdlYktpdC81MzcuMzYgKEtIVE1MLCBsaWtlIEdlY2tvKSBDaHJvbWUvNjAuMC4zMTEyLjExNiBNb2JpbGUgU2FmYXJpLzUzNy4zNg[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/89Xf1QjZ5XTvlk120-voDTGZrZMtPHRuoMMoJ8EC8eUkx7Rbu-_E9Qe_XSvtE0K8AG4k4ucRPu2Bwao8oqMUBu7fDlg1c92y7I_5KoGWS3AJzRKW_Lc1MM8JwSrccrqu_Iau2dttvFs=s0?rhlupa=MTcxLjI1NS4xMjQuMTU1&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKExpbnV4OyBBbmRyb2lkIDUuMC4yOyBBU1VTX1owMExEIEJ1aWxkL0xSWDIyRykgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzYwLjAuMzExMi4xMTYgTW9iaWxlIFNhZmFyaS81MzcuMzY=[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/livNPW2fqyLGgfAEVf2o3zt3R7ChFuHhL8UUFL0m3bqMH69Q09dcUeG4Gl-80X8AdI-kRflh1EZUYlg1l6ZHDG0Vb46fVKT3z8uX39vHEbq-edp4BkTd9cabOs47CXoOSP2tYSjsSw=s0?rhlupa=MjcuNjguMTM4LjI2&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKExpbnV4OyBBbmRyb2lkIDYuMC4xOyBTTS1KNTEwRk4gQnVpbGQvTU1CMjlNKSBBcHBsZVdlYktpdC81MzcuMzYgKEtIVE1MLCBsaWtlIEdlY2tvKSBDaHJvbWUvNjAuMC4zMTEyLjExNiBNb2JpbGUgU2FmYXJpLzUzNy4zNg[/img]
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6302935][img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/89Xf1QjZ5XTvlk120-voDTGZrZMtPHRuoMMoJ8EC8eUkx7Rbu-_E9Qe_XSvtE0K8AG4k4ucRPu2Bwao8oqMUBu7fDlg1c92y7I_5KoGWS3AJzRKW_Lc1MM8JwSrccrqu_Iau2dttvFs=s0?rhlupa=MTcxLjI1NS4xMjQuMTU1&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKExpbnV4OyBBbmRyb2lkIDUuMC4yOyBBU1VTX1owMExEIEJ1aWxkL0xSWDIyRykgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzYwLjAuMzExMi4xMTYgTW9iaWxlIFNhZmFyaS81MzcuMzY=[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/livNPW2fqyLGgfAEVf2o3zt3R7ChFuHhL8UUFL0m3bqMH69Q09dcUeG4Gl-80X8AdI-kRflh1EZUYlg1l6ZHDG0Vb46fVKT3z8uX39vHEbq-edp4BkTd9cabOs47CXoOSP2tYSjsSw=s0?rhlupa=MjcuNjguMTM4LjI2&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKExpbnV4OyBBbmRyb2lkIDYuMC4xOyBTTS1KNTEwRk4gQnVpbGQvTU1CMjlNKSBBcHBsZVdlYktpdC81MzcuMzYgKEtIVE1MLCBsaWtlIEdlY2tvKSBDaHJvbWUvNjAuMC4zMTEyLjExNiBNb2JpbGUgU2FmYXJpLzUzNy4zNg[/img][/QUOTE]
Hahaha, well, you answered the question I was going to ask: If Donna ever met Fury and E2 WW, and if Fury ever met Donna and E1 WW and if the Supes, PG and the Marvels ever met them all.
No surprise that the Wonders had nothing to really do in the final issue compared to the men. The DC Universe getting Black Adams powers in order to have an impact in the war was funny.
[img]https://i.ibb.co/ykKpMvK/Screenshot-2022-12-20-205318.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6304071]No surprise that the Wonders had nothing to really do in the final issue compared to the men. The DC Universe getting Black Adams powers in order to have an impact in the war was funny.
[img]https://i.ibb.co/ykKpMvK/Screenshot-2022-12-20-205318.png[/img][/QUOTE]
Is this Dark Crisis? At least the Wonders got a prominent placing, and I hope Donna's starts are lit up from now on. I love the effect.
Seeing all those scans people post of how prominent Black Adam is in this story is pretty funny given the movie bombing being the final nail in the coffin of the DCEU.
Who would have thought the creative genius behind the Eisner/Oscar/Emmy/Grammy/Pulitzer Prize award winning story "Justice League vs. Murder Quinn and Pals" couldn't produce another genre defining classic for folks.
And with all said and done, Wonder Woman's main contribution to this ultimate battle with the Great Darkness was....
1) not her idea
2) happened entirely off-panel
3) didn't really matter because it turned out the League would've gotten free on their own anyway or had already
Ah, but this wasn't Diana's story. This was about legacy and the next generation of heroes.
That's why Yara............um.....
And Donna.........
<crickets>
In all seriousness though, I really shouldn't complain. Considering how Diana and the Wonder family is usually treated in DC's events, I'll happily accept harmless nothing. And since this whole thing turned out to be a pitiful wet fart, we really didn't miss out.
Now onto the next lousy crossover event.....
[QUOTE=Gaius;6304087]Seeing all those scans people post of how prominent Black Adam is in this story is pretty funny given the movie bombing being the final nail in the coffin of the DCEU.
Who would have thought the creative genius behind the Eisner/Oscar/Emmy/Grammy/Pulitzer Prize award winning story "Justice League vs. Murder Quinn and Pals" couldn't produce another genre defining classic for folks.[/QUOTE]
They even straight up drew him as The Rock in one panel lol
Part of me wants them to bring things like this back. We get info now through leaks but somehow this just makes it seem more put together
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ltEM1UcokU4tbHYhjXPH5ClpJ0VrPs7EGjQ1FjQbQPV-RTx5r5-FvMjqmNrpkkUHPfg1grZTju13LLbk_DpiP-YCUHPhlN2w2G65k_VZZ2hZ4Cf8dnWy-gykb0UT5Tyzm71QaRLsBw=s1600?rhlupa=OTMuMTc3Ljc1LjI1NA&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzEwNi4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2[/img]
[QUOTE=Gaius;6304087]Seeing all those scans people post of how prominent Black Adam is in this story is pretty funny given the movie bombing being the final nail in the coffin of the DCEU.
Who would have thought the creative genius behind the Eisner/Oscar/Emmy/Grammy/Pulitzer Prize award winning story [B]"Justice League vs. Murder Quinn and Pals"[/B] couldn't produce another genre defining classic for folks.[/QUOTE]
I still liked that story :p.
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6304088]And with all said and done, Wonder Woman's main contribution to this ultimate battle with the Great Darkness was....
1) not her idea
2) happened entirely off-panel
3) didn't really matter because it turned out the League would've gotten free on their own anyway or had already
Ah, but this wasn't Diana's story. This was about legacy and the next generation of heroes.
That's why Yara............um.....
And Donna.........
<crickets>
In all seriousness though, I really shouldn't complain. Considering how Diana and the Wonder family is usually treated in DC's events, I'll happily accept harmless nothing. And since this whole thing turned out to be a pitiful wet fart, we really didn't miss out.
Now onto the next lousy crossover event.....[/QUOTE]
I think Donna at least got...some stuff? Like she got to have an inspiration talk or something? Am I remembering right?
The bar for writing wonder-verse characters was under the ground and they just barely didn't trip over it.
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6304071]No surprise that the Wonders had nothing to really do in the final issue [B]compared to the men[/B]. The DC Universe getting Black Adams powers in order to have an impact in the war was funny.
[img]https://i.ibb.co/ykKpMvK/Screenshot-2022-12-20-205318.png[/img][/QUOTE]
I don't know why people still think Wonder Woman sets the bar for whether DC is being fair to female characters or not. The female Doctor Light was a key character in the finale and the whole epilogue was about Amanda Waller.
But yeah, Dark Crisis was a stake story that did give us DC fans (not soecifically Wonder Fans) sone cool things, but overall was a waste of time
[QUOTE=Alpha;6304195]I don't know why people still think Wonder Woman sets the bar for whether DC is being fair to female characters or not. The female Doctor Light was a key character in the finale and the whole epilogue was about Amanda Waller.
But yeah, Dark Crisis was a stake story that did give us DC fans (not soecifically Wonder Fans) sone cool things, but overall was a waste of time[/QUOTE]
Your contradicting yourself within the same post. At first you don't know why Wonder Woman fans set the bar for being fair to her (she is a female character), and then in the next statement state that the story was a waste of time for Wonder Fans. Highlighting Amanda Waller and Doctor Light is proving a point to us Wonder fans.
Have Wonder Woman and her family just stay out of 'events'. Given her current sales that would mean very low exposure in the comic world, but at least her name can still sell items.
[QUOTE=BiteTheBullet;6304336]Your contradicting yourself within the same post. At first you don't know why Wonder Woman fans set the bar for being fair to her (she is a female character), and then in the next statement state that the story was a waste of time for Wonder Fans. Highlighting Amanda Waller and Doctor Light is proving a point to us Wonder fans.
[/QUOTE]
The wonders had nothing to do compared to the men and the women, that's my point. No contradiction buddy
[QUOTE=BiteTheBullet;6296305]
And, if you know your Wonder Woman history, you should know that Wonder Woman couldn't fly under her own power before Post Crisis. Flying on air currents is not what I consider to be under her own power, by the way. So...she couldn't fly in the TV series since this was before Post Crisis, the special effects at the time would have made gliding on air currents look very cheap/stupid. The TV show was also in a self contained universe in which she was the only known superhero. She didn't have to compete with alpha males like Batman/Superman or any of their ilk.
[/QUOTE]
Do people really see a distinction between riding air currents and flying?
By that logic, does Silver Swan fly?
Wonder Woman's powers never had anything to with the wind, they just used the "riding on air currents" as an explanation for how she could "learn" how to fly, as if it was a skill. Which is why I thought storm riding on air currents was an important distinction, but not with Diana. Do others disagree?
I always saw "riding on air currents" as a mechanical explanation for flight, just like anti gravity, jet propulsion and telekinesis
[QUOTE=Alpha;6304195]I don't know why people still think Wonder Woman sets the bar for whether DC is being fair to female characters or not. The female Doctor Light was a key character in the finale and the whole epilogue was about Amanda Waller.
But yeah, Dark Crisis was a stake story that did give us DC fans (not soecifically Wonder Fans) sone cool things, but overall was a waste of time[/QUOTE]
Light given a crunb doesn't change the fact that the men still dominated this.
[QUOTE=Alpha;6304372]Do people really see a distinction between riding air currents and flying?
By that logic, does Silver Swan fly?
Wonder Woman's powers never had anything to with the wind, they just used the "riding on air currents" as an explanation for how she could "learn" how to fly, as if it was a skill. Which is why I thought storm riding on air currents was an important distinction, but not with Diana. Do others disagree?
I always saw "riding on air currents" as a mechanical explanation for flight, just like anti gravity, jet propulsion and telekinesis[/QUOTE]
There is a distinction. Riding on air currents is monumentally dumb, even for comics. So, if someone has this 'power' of riding on air currents, does that mean they can't fly but only in the direction the wind is blowing? Are they useless in a tornado or hurricane? Let's say the wind is blowing at 100 kph (about 60 mph), wouldn't someone like Wonder Woman be able to run much faster than gliding on air currents, and of course for the wind to be going in the direction they need to go?
So...gliding versus self propelled flying in a comic medium. I will take the self propelled flying any day of the week because the air current thing is just stupid. Like birds, would Wonder Woman have to flap her arms to go against the wind, or make her self some stupid outfit with feathers to help her out?
And...Alpha, why are you bringing this up again? We know that you don't want Wondy to fly, yet you seem to be very interested in the notion of flying with her.
[QUOTE=BiteTheBullet;6304466]There is a distinction. Riding on air currents is monumentally dumb, even for comics. So, if someone has this 'power' of riding on air currents, does that mean they can't fly but only in the direction the wind is blowing? Are they useless in a tornado or hurricane? Let's say the wind is blowing at 100 kph (about 60 mph), wouldn't someone like Wonder Woman be able to run much faster than gliding on air currents, and of course for the wind to be going in the direction they need to go?
So...gliding versus self propelled flying in a comic medium. I will take the self propelled flying any day of the week because the air current thing is just stupid. Like birds, would Wonder Woman have to flap her arms to go against the wind, or make her self some stupid outfit with feathers to help her out?[/quote]
I admit that I'm not an expert on this, but that's not how her powers worked in the Robert Kanigher stories I read. She just flew. The whole "riding on air currents" was again, just an explanation. It didn't change how her powers worked.
So the distinction you (and maybe others, who knows) see isn't about air currents being portrayed as a different power? The distinction you see is that the term they use would supposedly describe something different from flying, even though the comics itself don't portray it that way?
[Quote]
And...Alpha, why are you bringing this up again? We know that you don't want Wondy to fly, yet you seem to be very interested in the notion of flying with her.[/QUOTE]
Well I'm not really talking about why I don't think she should fly.
E1&2 WW various meetings
[img]https://i.ibb.co/7RS8x2w/Be-Funky-collagecsssss.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.ibb.co/R6zbnPf/Be-Funky-collagecssss.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.ibb.co/5kGKYBM/Be-Funky-collagecsss.jpg[/img]
I like seeing the E1 and E2 versions of WW, but mostly when I can tell them apart, lol! Those first panels were hard to tell one from the other.
Wonder Woman started out not being able to fly, hence why she had the Invisible Plane.
Later, she could ride or glide on air currents, but this is not the same thing as flying.
WW still had her Invisible Plane, but now could stand outside of it while in flight if need be, and use her lasso for example.
While the Invisible Plane was updated to the Invisible Jet, WW still could only glide.
Much later, Diana was rightly given the power of flight.
What a shame for Jimenez to pencil an interesting idea, Perez's post-Crisis Diana meeting Marston's Golden Age OG Diana, and it's for a lame event like IC and get told she needs to be "more human".
Remain baffled when people say "Wonder Woman failing her mission" was some plot point in her books that IC apparently "solved". I can only assume, as I usually do, that people who say that weren't actually reading Rucka's WW run.
Rucka's Wonder Woman? What did Diana accomplish in the Rucka Run? She wrote a book. She attended parties. Was there something I'm forgetting about?
[QUOTE=Alpha;6305003]Rucka's Wonder Woman? What did Diana accomplish in the Rucka Run? She wrote a book. She attended parties. Was there something I'm forgetting about?[/QUOTE]
Ruckas run correctly showed that her mission was an ongoing, pretty much impossible thing but she would never stop at it. Like a hero should.
IC saying she failed at it was stupid as hell. The parties she attended also included a White House meeting that was highly important to Themyscira, and a dinner with the C.H.R High Commissioner to discuss the recommendations of the committee against torture. She wasn't attending random soirees
edited. nvm.
And this is why I maintain that Wonder Woman needs Holliday College, as an alternative community that practices different ways of living and allows people to discover their true potential and experiment. Allow Diana to actually change in the world, in that exemplary model neighbourhood of her own
Rather than inconsequential performance like in Rucka, Jimenez etc
Diana's life fell apart due to bad circumstances, many of which were beyond her control.
According to [I]IC[/I], that equals failing her mission. Just like how the start of her problems wasn't actually her alleged friends scum-bagging her, it was that she's apparently not human enough.
Seriously, Diana's arc in [I]Infinite Crisis[/I] is just everyone coming together to gaslight her.
If writers think Leonardo Dicaprio / Angelina Jolie style "activism" is good storytelling then those writers should let someone else take over for them
[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6305009]Ruckas run correctly showed that her mission was an ongoing, pretty much impossible thing but she would never stop at it. Like a hero should.
IC saying she failed at it was stupid as hell. The parties she attended also included a White House meeting that was highly important to Themyscira, and a dinner with the C.H.R High Commissioner to discuss the recommendations of the committee against torture. She wasn't attending random soirees[/QUOTE]
Yeah.
Don't know how he got that from my post but unsurprising.
[I]~Somethin' somethin'~[/I] journey is more important than the destination [I]~somethin' somethin'~[/I]
[QUOTE=Alpha;6305028]If writers think Leonardo Dicaprio / Angelina Jolie style "activism" is good storytelling then those writers should let someone else take over for them[/QUOTE]
Rucka's work on Wonder Woman earned him two Eisner nominations. Seems to me like he was doing a good job.
It's about as much change as any other version of Diana has ever accomplished. Or is there a story arc in the Golden/Silver Ages about Diana bringing about world peace, eradicating inequality and solving environmental collapse I'm not aware of?
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6305026]Diana's life fell apart due to bad circumstances, many of which were beyond her control.
According to [I]IC[/I], that equals failing her mission. Just like how the start of her problems wasn't actually her alleged friends scum-bagging her, it was that she's apparently not human enough.
Seriously, Diana's arc in [I]Infinite Crisis[/I] is just everyone coming together to gaslight her.[/QUOTE]
That same story also claimed that last time Superman inspired someone was when he died, which Superman fans have also called bullshit on.
[QUOTE=Alpha;6305023]And this is why I maintain that Wonder Woman needs Holliday College, as an alternative community that practices different ways of living and allows people to discover their true potential and experiment. Allow Diana to actually change in the world, in that exemplary model neighbourhood of her own
Rather than inconsequential performance like in Rucka, Jimenez etc[/QUOTE]
How is anything in the Jimenez ans Rucka runs performative? She was actually doing stuff (including also bringing that one dictator to the Hague in the first issue). Ideally, Holliday College would be included along with the Embassy, instead of one or the other.
Any effort made at Holliday College would be inconsequential in the long run as well. DC wouldn't allow it to have any long term change any more than her efforts in the other runs.