Printable View
[QUOTE=Agent Z;6216441]Just to be clear, do you mean the aftermath of the neck snap? Because Johns didn't write the neck snap.[/QUOTE]
The scene itself wasn't written by him, but Infinite Crisis was a Geoff Johns joint. Considering how awkwardly all of the OMAC/IC stuff was shoehorned into Rucka's run (and how many plot threads were abandoned just as they were getting juicy), I highly doubt it was his decision.
[QUOTE=Agent Z;6216441]Just to be clear, do you mean the aftermath of the neck snap? Because Johns didn't write the neck snap.[/QUOTE]
Yes, just easier shorthand.
Though the neck snap had a lot of cooks in the kitchen BTS since it was part of the buildup to IC. Rucka's original pitch didn't have Lord be the one who was killed.
As I recall, Rucka originally pitched a story involving Diana in a situation where she has to kill a man (not Max). She turns herself in to the authorities, and Superman & Batman actually plot to bust her out, having complete faith in her and her judgment despite their respective "no kill" principles. She appreciates their efforts but insists she's going to cooperate and see this through. Meanwhile, the Amazons retaliate on her behalf and demonstrate they can easily overthrew the US government if they really want.
I don't remember the details, but the story ends with Diana being cleared of the charges and everything more or less working out.
Then Geoff Johns and Dan DiDio decided to tie it in with [I]Infinite Crisis[/I] and make a huge thing out of it. Max Lord became the subject of neck snappage, and the MELODRAMA gets ramped up to eleven with Bruce and Clark being utterly disgusted with Diana's actions. It gets turned into a "Wonder Woman isn't human and that's why she needs a secret identity" thing. And the stuff with the Amazons was later became [I]Amazons Attack[/I], which......oof.
So Greg Rucka's original idea, which would've reinforced Wonder Woman as a paragon of integrity and principle, Clark and Bruce as loyal friends with absolute trust and faith in her, and the Amazons as a force to be reckoned turned into...what we got.
[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/26ybwvTX4DTkwst6U/giphy.gif[/IMG]
And then they kicked Rucka off the book so we could get hyped up new writer that didn't even last four issues.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6215651]Taylor's taken that crown of thorns even if Johns' missteps were more high profile (neck snap & "I [I]deal[/I] with my enemies"). :p[/QUOTE]
The weirdest thing is that Taylor's forte as a writer is knowing his audience, knowing (at least superficially) the characrters he's writing (their histories and the like) about and being able to write at least half-decent character moments (he's pretty weak when it comes to plot, dialogue, pacing... You can see that specially in his creator-owned stuff where he can't rely on fanservice). So it's weird he's incapable or unwilling to, at the very least, give a surface-level passable Diana.
I see the Super family just got a redesign...wish the Wonder family could get one as well.
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6216721]I see the Super family just got a redesign...wish the Wonder family could get one as well.[/QUOTE]
Honestly the only looks I'm not into right now are Donna and Cassie's. Cassie looked great with the kinda spin on the JL: War costume so they should settle on that and the return of Donna's stardust costume is long overdue. Also someone needs to change Diana's boots back to the Rebirth design, will never understand why they switched to the eyesore they are now.
Other than that, though? I'm loving the Wonderfam's looks right now. Yara and Nubia serve 100% of the time, Hippolyta's goddess mode look is gorgeous, Artemis' look is VERY classic Artemis, and the new characters have amazing designs (Faruka, the Esquecida Amazons). I know some people would probably prefer that they match more but I love that they all have so much unique personality in their costumes, as long as they've all got the gauntlets I'm happy.
[QUOTE=Zagre;6216633]The weirdest thing is that Taylor's forte as a writer is knowing his audience, knowing (at least superficially) the characrters he's writing (their histories and the like) about and being able to write at least half-decent character moments (he's pretty weak when it comes to plot, dialogue, pacing... You can see that specially in his creator-owned stuff where he can't rely on fanservice). So it's weird he's incapable or unwilling to, at the very least, give a surface-level passable Diana.[/QUOTE]
His opinion of what's a good written Diana is probably different from ours. :p I assume he'll be resting on "I wrote the [SIZE=1]--elseworld--[/SIZE]story where Wonder Woman kisses another woman" laurels for a while.
Plus as usual, he can always hide behind "it's alternate universe, liberties should be allowed..." he uses for Injustice. ;)
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6216554]As I recall, Rucka originally pitched a story involving Diana in a situation where she has to kill a man (not Max). She turns herself in to the authorities, and Superman & Batman actually plot to bust her out, having complete faith in her and her judgment despite their respective "no kill" principles. She appreciates their efforts but insists she's going to cooperate and see this through. Meanwhile, the Amazons retaliate on her behalf and demonstrate they can easily overthrew the US government if they really want.
I don't remember the details, but the story ends with Diana being cleared of the charges and everything more or less working out.[/QUOTE]
That's basically the long and short of it.
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6216554]Then Geoff Johns and Dan DiDio decided to tie it in with [I]Infinite Crisis[/I] and make a huge thing out of it. Max Lord became the subject of neck snappage, and the MELODRAMA gets ramped up to eleven with Bruce and Clark being utterly disgusted with Diana's actions. It gets turned into a "Wonder Woman isn't human and that's why she needs a secret identity" thing. [B]And the stuff with the Amazons was later became [I]Amazons Attack[/I], which......oof[/B].
So Greg Rucka's original idea, which would've reinforced Wonder Woman as a paragon of integrity and principle, Clark and Bruce as loyal friends with absolute trust and faith in her, and the Amazons as a force to be reckoned turned into...what we got.
[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/26ybwvTX4DTkwst6U/giphy.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
[I]Amazons Attack[/I] was an event that was going to begin and end in the [I][B]same[/B][/I] book. Seriously, it was going to be like, 4 pages max. Rucka pitch for it was: "the shortest war in human history."
So it was supposed to be short and present the Amazons in a positive light, but instead it was long and presented the Amazons in a negative light...
[QUOTE=Zagre;6216633]The weirdest thing is that Taylor's forte as a writer is knowing his audience, knowing (at least superficially) the characrters he's writing (their histories and the like) about and being able to write at least half-decent character moments (he's pretty weak when it comes to plot, dialogue, pacing... You can see that specially in his creator-owned stuff where he can't rely on fanservice). [B]So it's weird he's incapable or unwilling to, at the very least, give a surface-level passable Diana.[/B][/QUOTE]
I think in his mind, he does. His Diana is surface level at its peak to him. Look at the fantasy shlock he's writing, his Diana is tough but not really, strong willed but stupid, and he gave Diana her lesbian kiss, surely, we like how he writes her now, right? lol
[QUOTE=I'm a Fish;6217255]That's basically the long and short of it.
[I]Amazons Attack[/I] was an event that was going to begin and end in the [I][B]same[/B][/I] book. Seriously, it was going to be like, 4 pages max. Rucka pitch for it was: "the shortest war in human history."
So it was supposed to be short and present the Amazons in a positive light, but instead it was long and presented the Amazons in a negative light...[/QUOTE]
Amazons Attack as it was told was a pathetic, enraging portrayal of the Amazons. Zero focus on who the Amazons are as characters and instead used as a plot device.
They gotta stop giving Diana and her mythos such a bad showing in crossovers.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6214466]Diana in the Red Hood Webtoons outlaw from today
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/AoBhs9n.png[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/RB66A8W.png[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/W7J6IT4.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I didn't even notice they were using the Invisible Jet!
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6215731]Where is she struggling?
I know some think that WW should be a stone wall against everyone in the DCU but there's nothing in these panels about struggle and its VERY clear that Diana is not trying to escalate things to a more dangerous place.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, she blocks the first Star Bolt, the second one was a lucky hit, and then she immediately overpowers Starfire and gets her to the ground and her line implies she was treating her with kid gloves up to that point.
Also she did apologize for her behavior after things de-escalated.
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6216554]As I recall, Rucka originally pitched a story involving Diana in a situation where she has to kill a man (not Max). She turns herself in to the authorities, and Superman & Batman actually plot to bust her out, having complete faith in her and her judgment despite their respective "no kill" principles. She appreciates their efforts but insists she's going to cooperate and see this through. Meanwhile, the Amazons retaliate on her behalf and demonstrate they can easily overthrew the US government if they really want.
I don't remember the details, but the story ends with Diana being cleared of the charges and everything more or less working out.
Then Geoff Johns and Dan DiDio decided to tie it in with [I]Infinite Crisis[/I] and make a huge thing out of it. Max Lord became the subject of neck snappage, and the MELODRAMA gets ramped up to eleven with Bruce and Clark being utterly disgusted with Diana's actions. It gets turned into a "Wonder Woman isn't human and that's why she needs a secret identity" thing. And the stuff with the Amazons was later became [I]Amazons Attack[/I], which......oof.
So Greg Rucka's original idea, which would've reinforced Wonder Woman as a paragon of integrity and principle, Clark and Bruce as loyal friends with absolute trust and faith in her, and the Amazons as a force to be reckoned turned into...what we got.[/QUOTE]
That would've been...a much more flattering story. But I guess they really needed the Trinity to feel compromised and at their lowest for Infinite Crisis.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6214466]Diana in the Red Hood Webtoons outlaw from today
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/AoBhs9n.png[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/RB66A8W.png[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/W7J6IT4.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I love Diana and Artemis' facial expressions!
And look at Supes--he is thinking, "Hmmph. I can fly in space without this jet! Why do I have to sit here?"
McFarlane Superpowers Wonder Woman figure and Invisible Jet prototype.
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeZoCcgXEAEi-tC?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeZoGDxWIAElywY?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Gaius;6218380]McFarlane Superpowers Wonder Woman figure and Invisible Jet prototype.
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeZoCcgXEAEi-tC?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeZoGDxWIAElywY?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Since I can see that "Invisible Jet", I wonder if the Jet is going to stay that gray color....or be clear in the final production?
[QUOTE=Phoenixx9;6218432]Since I can see that "Invisible Jet", I wonder if the Jet is going to stay that gray color....or be clear in the final production?[/QUOTE]
Clear, or some color that simulates being clear, since that's just a resin model.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6218443]Clear, or some color that simulates being clear, since that's just a resin model.[/QUOTE]
Oh good. Thanks.
That gray was not appealing to me at all!
Stephanie Williams teased a Colonel Future holiday story featuring Superman and Wonder Woman. Colonel Future is a little-known DC character who can see the future but is “really bad at interpreting it.”
[QUOTE=Gaius;6218443]Clear, or some color that simulates being clear, since that's just a resin model.[/QUOTE]
And it's not a good one, it looks too cute, like a WW Christmas ornament or Happy Meal toy.
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6218983]And it's not a good one, it looks too cute, like a WW Christmas ornament or Happy Meal toy.[/QUOTE]
It's a toy for kids.
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6218983]And it's not a good one, it looks too cute, like a WW Christmas ornament or Happy Meal toy.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Agent Z;6219028]It's a toy for kids.[/QUOTE]
Based around a toy line from the 70s/80s too.
I like the invisible jet, but I'd want it to look cool, syfy jet/spaceship like. But it also needs to be reserved for multi-people/multi-cargo travel mostly for space. I don't want even more scans of Diana coming in on a plane knowing dang well she can fly and fly fast. I feel like there needs a very delicate balance between Diana using a jet and being able to fly. Like, an editor would need to be strong on that, say 'No, don't use the jet here, I don't care, she can fly, let her fly.'
[IMG]https://www.popsci.com/uploads/2019/03/18/JZ6QTMKPJORI745UUOYCKZA5UY.jpg?auto=webp[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Agent Z;6219028]It's a toy for kids.[/QUOTE]
Be that as it may, it doesn't match the action figure. If it did it would look more like this...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]125295[/ATTACH]
Also, this was original concept art for an Invisible Jet for the original Kenner line . A toy like proportion is not unexpected.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]125297[/ATTACH]
[QUOTE=Phoenixx9;6218432]Since I can see that "Invisible Jet", I wonder if the Jet is going to stay that gray color....or be clear in the final production?[/QUOTE]
Those are just 3d renderings for the tooling. I'm sure it would be clear, much like the Batmobile won't be solid, undeco'd grey.
[QUOTE=wonder39;6221984]Also, this was original concept art for an Invisible Jet for the original Kenner line . A toy like proportion is not unexpected.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]125297[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]125298[/ATTACH]
That's not the same jet, it's not the proportions it's the design. It's shorter, cuter and the logo on the nose isn't helping.
[QUOTE=wonder39;6221991]Those are just 3d renderings for the tooling. I'm sure it would be clear, much like the Batmobile won't be solid, undeco'd grey.[/QUOTE]
Thanks. That gray turned me off.
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6222012][ATTACH=CONFIG]125298[/ATTACH]
That's not the same jet, it's not the proportions it's the design. It's shorter, cuter and the logo on the nose isn't helping.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I know what you mean!
Oh I have seen that in the NYCC there was a lot of news regarding the Batfamily and Superfamily for the year 2023 (yes, including in the family their representatives of the JL China)
I already said it once and I say it again, we need the Wonderfamily united and being companions of Diana.
I know that this last year there has been an effort to do this, Nubia was a great success, at least in quality, the failed Trial of the Amazons has generated a new status quo, but I feel that time is passing and we are not yet seeing the fruits of it.
By this I mean seeing Diana on adventures alongside Donna (Troia or under a new name at least!), Wonder Cassie, Artemis, Wonder Yara, Peng Deilan, Nubia, Fury Lyta Trevor, Godess Hippolyta, etc.
It makes me very envious that the readers of Batman and Superman have to talk and speculate and we continue in the same hyperbole as always.
I cross my fingers for news about the future of Diana and her family in the comics.
[QUOTE=Sebastianne;6222395]Oh I have seen that in the NYCC there was a lot of news regarding the Batfamily and Superfamily for the year 2023 (yes, including in the family their representatives of the JL China)
I already said it once and I say it again, we need the Wonderfamily united and being companions of Diana.
I know that this last year there has been an effort to do this, Nubia was a great success, at least in quality, the failed Trial of the Amazons has generated a new status quo, but I feel that time is passing and we are not yet seeing the fruits of it.
By this I mean seeing Diana on adventures alongside Donna (Troia or under a new name at least!), Wonder Cassie, Artemis, Wonder Yara, Peng Deilan, Nubia, Fury Lyta Trevor, Godess Hippolyta, etc.
It makes me very envious that the readers of Batman and Superman have to talk and speculate and we continue in the same hyperbole as always.
I cross my fingers for news about the future of Diana and her family in the comics.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Its weird that we got so much news for those two but nothing for Diana, even if she just had a good year...gotta keep that momentum! Especially if we have a semi magical event that only includes Yara from the WW "fam". Especially reading pre-52 comics again, the Wonder fam was fairly close and intertwined with one another on the semi regular. Now everyone is on their own adventures and it feels more forced than natural.
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6222411]I agree. Its weird that we got so much news for those two but nothing for Diana, even if she just had a good year...gotta keep that momentum! Especially if we have a semi magical event that only includes Yara from the WW "fam". Especially reading pre-52 comics again, the Wonder fam was fairly close and intertwined with one another on the semi regular. Now everyone is on their own adventures and it feels more forced than natural.[/QUOTE]
Yara's thing in The Green Deadly is nothingness itself, she's standing there doing nothing and not understanding anything.
I also don't know why the Son of Kal-El has to be in a magical event, when Kryptonians are supposed to be vulnerable to magic. In his place there should have been someone from the Wonderfamily, Artemis because of her new connection to magic, but well...
[QUOTE=Sebastianne;6222430]Yara's thing in The Green Deadly is nothingness itself, she's standing there doing nothing and not understanding anything.
I also don't know why the Son of Kal-El has to be in a magical event, when Kryptonians are supposed to be vulnerable to magic. In his place there should have been someone from the Wonderfamily, Artemis because of his new connection to magic, but well...[/QUOTE]
Has it even come out yet? We dont know what she'll be doing. Do I think it'll be much? No but...who knows. Artemis would be good though, I agree.
where are the lies! lol
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rTjnkpRLpTU/VngLHR_-DII/AAAAAAAANo0/lySvLc8iYSU/s1600-Ic42/RCO016.jpg[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tFqd-uKOvjc/VngLHUO09JI/AAAAAAAANo0/Qf-xeSsXtUA/s1600-Ic42/RCO017.jpg[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ntMtniSd2ns/VngLXMSjT9I/AAAAAAAANrs/McWi4YBjCbA/s1600-Ic42/RCO009.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Sebastianne;6222430]Yara's thing in The Green Deadly is nothingness itself, she's standing there doing nothing and not understanding anything.
I also don't know why the Son of Kal-El has to be in a magical event, when Kryptonians are supposed to be vulnerable to magic. In his place there should have been someone from the Wonderfamily, Artemis because of his new connection to magic, but well...[/QUOTE]
Not too really worked up over the magical event. Seems just another filler event like that Winter Event that came around Death Metal from a while back since it's supposed to be a one-month thing.
And if any Wonder character should be written by Waid, given his track record better it be the one with not much of an interesting personality to screw up like he did Diana. :p
[QUOTE=Gaius;6222470]Not too really worked up over the magical event. Seems just another filler event like that Winter Event that came around Death Metal from a while back since it's supposed to be a one-month thing.
And if any Wonder character should be written by Waid, given his track record better it be the one with [B][I]not much of an interesting personality[/I][/B] to screw up like he did Diana. :p[/QUOTE]
Lol!
But I was referring to the one shot Dark Crisis: The Green Deadly, which supposedly explores magic. It's still a great meh.
I need more wonderfamily, I think I'm suffering from abstinence.
In that thing called lazarus, it seems that the Wonderfamily doesn't paint at all, maybe luckily.
I'll play the Devil's advocate. Wonder Woman 800 will get published next year. Could just be a normal issue or could be a special issue, we'll see. But we know that there will be a big storyline about various pantheons of gods coming to war (we might meet Yara's father, who knows). This storyline could very well be an event and have various one shots for other characters in the family. So maybe the reason why they didn't announce anything is because that storyline won't begin in January, only a bit later on
I'm guessing the renewed focus on the Super-fam is a DC-wide brand synergy thing. It sounds like they have big plans to push him in the DCEU again (another place where WW is getting paid dust these days, which makes sense - WW84 was awful and JL was a terrible showing for her). But it does seem like the DCEU's problem with women goes beyond that between Batgirl being canceled, Mera apparently being mostly cut from Aquaman 2, original plans to highlight Supergirl being sidelined so they can bring back Superman, and the JSA only having one woman in the line-up.
But yeah, looking damn bleak on the Wonder-side. Historia vol. 3's now pushed all the way out to December (plus we still have no info on whether it'll get picked up for the full 9 issues) and all they have planned beyond the main book is one upcoming Nubia one-shot. And the main book isn't exactly killing it right now either.
We need some updates on the video game for a morale boost...
[QUOTE=bardkeep;6223722]I'm guessing the renewed focus on the Super-fam is a DC-wide brand synergy thing. It sounds like they have big plans to push him in the DCEU again (another place where WW is getting paid dust these days, which makes sense - WW84 was awful and JL was a terrible showing for her). But it does seem like the DCEU's problem with women goes beyond that between Batgirl being canceled, Mera apparently being mostly cut from Aquaman 2, original plans to highlight Supergirl being sidelined so they can bring back Superman, and the JSA only having one woman in the line-up.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, don't get me started on that.
I HATE that not a single trailer or TV clip released for Black Adam has even pretended to bother giving Cyclone any kind of push. Seriously, if BS flops, I will not lament it. Serves them right for ignoring the potential of a female audience to help the box office. If WBD were smarter, they would do multipler clips that feature each member of the JSA and each of their potential to bring in different demos: Cyclone women and LGBTQs (played by a non-binary woman), Hawkman (black audiences), Dr. Fate, (older men and women who love James Bond), etc.
[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6224030]Oh, don't get me started on that.
I HATE that not a single trailer or TV clip released for Black Adam has even pretended to bother giving Cyclone any kind of push. Seriously, if BS flops, I will not lament it. Serves them right for ignoring the potential of a female audience to help the box office. If WBD were smarter, they would do multipler clips that feature each member of the JSA and each of their potential to bring in different demos: Cyclone women and LGBTQs (played by a non-binary woman), Hawkman (black audiences), Dr. Fate, (older men and women who love James Bond), etc.[/QUOTE]
Have any of the clips pushed Atom Smasher. The Rock is the draw here, everyone else are just his Michelles to his Beyonce
[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6224030]Oh, don't get me started on that.
I HATE that not a single trailer or TV clip released for Black Adam has even pretended to bother giving Cyclone any kind of push. Seriously, if BS flops, I will not lament it. Serves them right for ignoring the potential of a female audience to help the box office. If WBD were smarter, they would do multipler clips that feature each member of the JSA and each of their potential to bring in different demos: Cyclone women and LGBTQs (played by a non-binary woman), Hawkman (black audiences), [B]Dr. Fate, (older men and women who love James Bond)[/B], etc.[/QUOTE]
What does he have to do with James Bond? He's Dr. Fate not Dr. No.
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6224173]What does he have to do with James Bond? He's Dr. Fate not Dr. No.[/QUOTE]
He was Bond so has a fan base