I still like what Geoff did with her in TT. Just a shame that once she got to TT she wasnt part of WW as much anymore. Now New52....that really took away from her character
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I still like what Geoff did with her in TT. Just a shame that once she got to TT she wasnt part of WW as much anymore. Now New52....that really took away from her character
I really think Byrne was right in this matter.
[img] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F32UXztWgAINarx?format=jpg&name=900x900[/img]
He didnt lie about male artists who can only draw Britney Spears.
But sadly Cassie would never remain "ordinary" for that long, just as every male hero needs a six pack and guns for arms...females have to be models.
Her evolution from her introduction to TT though was fairly realisitc.
Can only go down when you start off life as a knockoff.
My thing is, are you the same as you were at 14? Glow-ups are a real phenomenon. If you're a gawky tomboy as a 14 years old you're supposed to stay that way forever? I don't think so. Case in point, here's Britney at 14.
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[QUOTE=Gaius;6572661]Can only go down when you start off life as a knockoff.[/QUOTE]
Worked out for Dick Grayson and Wally West :p.
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6572665]My thing is, are you the same as you were at 14? Glow-ups are a real phenomenon. If you're a gawky tomboy as a 14 years old you're supposed to stay that way forever? I don't think so. Case in point, here's Britney at 14.
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That's Byrne's point. Cassie is [I]not[/I] Britney Spears. There's a reason people made jokes about how all of DC's blonde female characters look alike whether it's Cassie, Kara, Stephanie Brown or Black Canary. Cassie had a look that allowed her to stand out among women and girls in superhero comics and it was thrown away for a design that ridiculously common.
Furthermore, Spears's "glow up" ended up being used to exploit her and this has affected her deeply to this day. The Wonder Woman comics weren't lacking in glamorous female characters, most of whom were much older than Cassie.
It doesn't help that this redesign coincided with her becoming more obnoxious, vapid and incompetent.
Cassie wore a headband that totally distinguishes her from other blondes :p.
[QUOTE=Agent Z;6572820]That's Byrne's point. Cassie is [I]not[/I] Britney Spears. There's a reason people made jokes about how all of DC's blonde female characters look alike whether it's Cassie, Kara, Stephanie Brown or Black Canary. Cassie had a look that allowed her to stand out among women and girls in superhero comics and it was thrown away for a design that ridiculously common.
Furthermore, Spears's "glow up" ended up being used to exploit her and this has affected her deeply to this day. The Wonder Woman comics weren't lacking in glamorous female characters, most of whom were much older than Cassie.
It doesn't help that this redesign coincided with her becoming more obnoxious, vapid and incompetent.[/QUOTE]
Applause, applause ^^^^
[QUOTE=Frontier;6572823]Cassie wore a headband that totally distinguishes her from other blondes :p.[/QUOTE]
ROFL:D
[QUOTE=Frontier;6572823]Cassie wore a headband that totally distinguishes her from other blondes :p.[/QUOTE]
Gwen Stacy would like to have words with her.:p
[QUOTE=Agent Z;6572830]Gwen Stacy would like to have words with her.:p[/QUOTE]
As would Supergirl
[Img]https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BYTUzYWQ0MzgtYmUxMS00Mzk3LWJlZDItZjE3N2M3ZWMyYzczXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNDY3NDY4Mzg@._V1_.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Gaius;6572661]Can only go down when you start off life as a knockoff.[/QUOTE]
You can only trigger yourself buddy.
Cassie was definitely made to replace Vanessa Kapatelis, but her characterization was not the same at all, and they didn't look like each other either.
It's like comparing 1970s Oliver Queen with 1960s Batman
Or Gwen Stacy and Mary Jane Watson
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6572665]My thing is, are you the same as you were at 14? Glow-ups are a real phenomenon. If you're a gawky tomboy as a 14 years old you're supposed to stay that way forever? I don't think so. Case in point, here's Britney at 14.
[/QUOTE]
Why would she need a glow up like that? She was supposed to be like season 1 Veronica Mars, not season 3
[img]https://64.media.tumblr.com/abb4c9c616b327c8d36ae2a38ec40e7e/c76872e29068d5a4-20/s400x600/09ad4f76d14d2789747e6e872cd600b10ed11157.pnj[/img]
[img]https://64.media.tumblr.com/e54e307b6460c37bd8220d9841d5cc6d/8f8dd13210fcc1df-a6/s640x960/db731acfb32a35e7367e7ddca41a7cab5bf2510b.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Alpha;6572864]Why would she need a glow up like that? She was supposed to be like season 1 Veronica Mars, not season 3
[img]https://64.media.tumblr.com/abb4c9c616b327c8d36ae2a38ec40e7e/c76872e29068d5a4-20/s400x600/09ad4f76d14d2789747e6e872cd600b10ed11157.pnj[/img][/QUOTE]
Ah, but how long did Veronica Mars STAY in season 1? Which is Koriand'r's point.
yes, the awkward teen thing makes perfect sense.... but the character has been in comics for 27 years RW time. It's like the Dick Grayson thing....
And much like how Dick became Batman... Cassie has been Wonder Woman in some comics.
Well I personally saw it as a downgrade in the Veronica Mars show (as did others) so I also see it as a downgrade with Cassie.
She showed how a member of the Wonderfamily could still find value in the "wondergirl" identity, while not trying to fit into the gender norms. The idea of Cassie moving more and more away from gender while still having a feminine identity inspired by Diana, is really unique.
She has no impact now.
[QUOTE=Alpha;6572903]Well I personally saw it as a downgrade in the Veronica Mars show (as did others) so I also see it as a downgrade with Cassie.
She showed how a member of the Wonderfamily could still find value in the "wondergirl" identity, while not trying to fit into the gender norms. The idea of Cassie moving more and more away from gender while still having a feminine identity inspired by Diana, is really unique.
She has no impact now.[/QUOTE]
It's interesting how comic book fans rationalize "changes" in comic book characters throughout the years. On one hand, many fans love, cherish, and defend that comic book characters stay the same geeky, gawky, 'normal' teenagers forever because it's relatable and it's the character that they love (Peter Parker for example). On the other hand, geeky, gawky, 'normal' female characters are expected (by some, not by all) to get makeovers that turn them into a grotesque parody/caricature of Britney Spears because reasons.
I definitely prefer Cassie as Byrne created her. It was a breath of fresh air among all the traditionally "hot" Wonder characters, but of course it was inevitable that eventual male writers turned her (visually) into a teenage popstar wannabe circa 1999.
[QUOTE=Alpha;6572903]Well I personally saw it as a downgrade in the Veronica Mars show (as did others) so I also see it as a downgrade with Cassie.
She showed how a member of the Wonderfamily could still find value in the "wondergirl" identity, while not trying to fit into the gender norms. The idea of Cassie moving more and more away from gender while still having a feminine identity inspired by Diana, is really unique.
She has no impact now.[/QUOTE]
"unique"? To what? When was she ACTUALLY that? Even the Byrne thing was about her being underage... not "outside gender norms".... underage, she didn't look like a supermodel because she wasn't old enough yet. Then she got older....
Also part of the Byrne look was not dressing in spandex.... Which she tends to not do even now.
[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6572906]It's interesting how comic book fans rationalize "changes" in comic book characters throughout the years. On one hand, many fans love, cherish, and defend that comic book characters stay the same geeky, gawky, 'normal' teenagers forever because it's relatable and it's the character that they love (Peter Parker for example).[/QUOTE]
I'm a huge Spider-man fan, but......
MC2 dad Pete is best Pete. :p
[QUOTE=marhawkman;6572912]"unique"? To what? When was she ACTUALLY that? Even the Byrne thing was about her being underage... not "outside gender norms".... underage, she didn't look like a supermodel because she wasn't old enough yet. Then she got older....
Also part of the Byrne look was not dressing in spandex.... Which she tends to not do even now.[/QUOTE]
She wore a boy's haircut. That was a big deal in the 90s for a girl. She dressed in a very unisex manner and didn't wear normal jewelry
[QUOTE=marhawkman;6572912]"unique"? To what? [/QUOTE]
To other female characters. If you listed the number of female teenagers in DC, I bet you could count the ones that looked like original Cassie on both hands and still have fingers to spare.
[QUOTE=Frontier;6572811]Worked out for Dick Grayson and Wally West :p.[/QUOTE]
Don’t care for them either. :p
[QUOTE=Alpha;6572935]She wore a boy's haircut. That was a big deal in the 90s for a girl. She dressed in a very unisex manner and didn't wear normal jewelry[/QUOTE]
right... boy's haircut... under a wig.
what superheroines wear jewelry?
[QUOTE=marhawkman;6573086]right... boy's haircut... under a wig.
what superheroines wear jewelry?[/QUOTE]
I was talking about her civillian outfit.
But you do also see that her superhero outfit was quite unisex too right?
[QUOTE=Gaius;6572983]Don’t care for them either. :p[/QUOTE]
Though you also can't argue with success ;).
[QUOTE=marhawkman;6573086] what superheroines wear jewelry?[/QUOTE]
Well, there is Wonder Woman. And Scarlet Witch once had bracelts/bangles and such. Donna Troy used to wear a bird necklace and bracelet (over her bracers). Stretching it a bit, we could consider Wasp's old wrist stings and Black Widow's belt and Bites as "jewelry" too.
[QUOTE=Frontier;6573125]Though you also can't argue with success ;).[/QUOTE]
Flash needs all the success it can get at the moment :p
[QUOTE=marhawkman;6572899]Ah, but how long did Veronica Mars STAY in season 1? Which is Koriand'r's point.
yes, the awkward teen thing makes perfect sense.... but the character has been in comics for 27 years RW time. It's like the Dick Grayson thing....
And much like how Dick became Batman... Cassie has been Wonder Woman in some comics.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=marhawkman;6572912]"unique"? To what? When was she ACTUALLY that? Even the Byrne thing was about her being underage... not "outside gender norms".... underage, she didn't look like a supermodel because she wasn't old enough yet. Then she got older....
Also part of the Byrne look was not dressing in spandex.... Which she tends to not do even now.[/QUOTE]
Thank-you! You saved me a lot of pointless typing.
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6572665]My thing is, are you the same as you were at 14? Glow-ups are a real phenomenon. If you're a gawky tomboy as a 14 years old you're supposed to stay that way forever? I don't think so. Case in point, here's Britney at 14.
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I agree styles evolve but some call backs to her tomboy-ish and sporty personality would also be cool. As far as feminine designs go her best one was this:
[IMG]https://dccontinuityproject.weebly.com/uploads/5/4/5/1/54516433/420063032_orig.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Alpha;6572601]I think this is worth sharing here too. Cassie went from being something meaningful in the Wonderverse, to what she was after Geoff Johns[/QUOTE]
The saddest thing about this post is the last costume is Donna-lite
[QUOTE=Alpha;6572935]She wore a boy's haircut. That was a big deal in the 90s for a girl. She dressed in a very unisex manner and didn't wear normal jewelry[/QUOTE]
" boy's haircut".... It's just short hair. Girls be rocking that for decades and decades now ...lol
Yeah, plenty of actresses had that hair cut back in the day
[img]https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/_4tUpncOmdHd5h_eYvxuRg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTQ1MA--/https://s.yimg.com/os/en-CA/blogs/wide-screen/131104b-dd-5.jpg[/img]
[img]https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2JHCMN8/angelina-jolie-hackers-1995-2JHCMN8.jpg[/img]
Those haircuts aren't that much unisex in the 90s, but they are great examples of breaking gender norms.
Ypu will also notice that those aren't girls. They are women. Both of them were 20.
How many 14 year old girls wore haircuts like those?
[img] https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNPyEkDPoAdM8IPnZyh0giMIS8H-7KHwyHzg&usqp=CAU[/img]
[img] https://s2982.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/wonder-girl-cassie-sandsmark-og-costume.jpg.optimal.jpg[/img]
[img] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETGSeH7UMAAc1hT.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Alpha;6573447]Those haircuts aren't that much unisex in the 90s, but they are great examples of breaking gender norms.
Ypu will also notice that those aren't girls. They are women. Both of them were 20.
How many 14 year old girls wore haircuts like those?
[img] https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNPyEkDPoAdM8IPnZyh0giMIS8H-7KHwyHzg&usqp=CAU[/img]
[img] https://s2982.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/wonder-girl-cassie-sandsmark-og-costume.jpg.optimal.jpg[/img]
[img] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETGSeH7UMAAc1hT.png[/img][/QUOTE]
I was like 5 so...cant tell ya that lol. But considering they had her "conform" when she was in her WG get up with longer hair, her having shorter hair in her civilian look wasnt that big of a thing. Dinah was rocking it, Selina was rocking it, Lois had rocked it. Kudos for Cassie for rocking it at a younger age?
[QUOTE=wonder39;6573379]" boy's haircut".... It's just short hair. Girls be rocking that for decades and decades now ...lol[/QUOTE]
And those women were considered tomboys. Jean Seberg, Jane Birkin and Audrey Hepburn are probably considered feminine today but they were tomboys back then.
[IMG]https://aws-modapedia.vogue.es/prod/designs/v1/assets/640x854/2026.jpg[/IMG]
But if it's just a haircut and style then there shouldn't be any reaction. I always find some of the reactions to female comic characters getting short hair weird.
[QUOTE=Psy-lock;6572835]As would Supergirl
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[QUOTE=OopsIdiditagain;6573169]I agree styles evolve but some call backs to her tomboy-ish and sporty personality would also be cool. As far as feminine designs go her best one was this:
[IMG]https://dccontinuityproject.weebly.com/uploads/5/4/5/1/54516433/420063032_orig.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Huh, that Gwen Stacy black headband is common for blonde characters. Thats weird.
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6573413]Yeah, plenty of actresses had that hair cut back in the day
[img]https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/_4tUpncOmdHd5h_eYvxuRg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTQ1MA--/https://s.yimg.com/os/en-CA/blogs/wide-screen/131104b-dd-5.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Ah, yes, Double Dragon, a true classic of cinema. :D Thing is... in DD she's the sexy female lead. It's just a different gender norm, not "defying" norms.
but that's kinda the reality with "defying norms"... it's simply not using a certain specific norm.
[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6570767]Bravo. I definitely concur 100 %.[/QUOTE]
Thank you!
[URL="https://twitter.com/beywonderous/status/1696643696286920970"]Someone made a thread of possible locations to film a Wonder Woman movie.[/URL]
What idiocy. Wonder Woman isn't about how important Greece is
[QUOTE=Alpha;6581944]What idiocy. Wonder Woman isn't about how important Greece is[/QUOTE]
Not sure what that's got to do with anything, since I'm pretty sure the thread's creator isn't saying they should only film in those places.