Wonder Woman - General Discussion

[QUOTE=FutureWonder;5395444]I will never understand why Diana has never been used in any major way in the Legion. It boggles the mind that an immortal demigoddess has not been featured in any LSH book that I remember. I also don't remember any LSH story that mentions the amazons or Diana.[/QUOTE]

Probably because it's mainly a Superman sub-franchise so his stuff/story takes more precedence there. From what I can tell not much of the present day DC stuff seems to last to the time of the Legion, the GLs are completely gone and largely forgotten by that time period from what I've been told.

Plus it seems since COIE, the Legion spends more time stuck in cycles of endless reboots trying to re-establish themselves in a new status quo rather than add on other stuff. :p

[QUOTE=Gaius;5395539]Probably because it's mainly a Superman sub-franchise so his stuff/story takes more precedence there. From what I can tell not much of the present day DC stuff seems to last to the time of the Legion, the GLs are completely gone and largely forgotten by that time period from what I've been told.

Plus it seems since COIE, the Legion spends more time stuck in cycles of endless reboots trying to re-establish themselves in a new status quo rather than add on other stuff. :p[/QUOTE]

Good points!

An now, back to my broken-record complaint about Wonder Woman representation in pop culture :D : I was just watching the first ten minutes of the new show Superman & Lois, and I teared up a little. Not just because the scene is beautiful and inspirational (and believe me, it made me shed a tear despite the fact I have never been a fan of Supes), but also because once again I wished that we could see Diana in other live-action showcases beyond the movies. I will never not believe that things like Smallvill, Lois & Clark, and now Superman & Lois are precisely what keeps Superman firmly entrenched in pop culture as a beloved icon. It just keeps cementing the character's mystique. It doesn't matter that these shows have different levels of quality; they do what they are supposed to do: perpetuate the Superman brand. I wish with all my heart that I see this happening to Wonder Woman before I die.

[QUOTE=Alpha;5392197]I mean, how would you revamp a brainwashing prison?[/QUOTE]

While a brainwashing prison feels really out of touch for Diana now, I do wonder if a revamp of the concept could be more about expanding the tradition of transformative justice in the Amazons' philosophy. There's so much amazing work out there in that field in the real world right now, and it would really fit Diana's ethos to lean into that. I think that probably means we're not talking about an island of incarceration and brainwashing, but an island that's a centre of excellence for transformative justice wisdom and practice, and possibly for respite, healing and change for those "villains" who need it. Something to act in contrast to the brutality of the prison system Diana is having to currently drop her enemies into (when she catches them). It doesn't really fit for me that Diana would just hand over villains to a system that won't support them in changing when she is committed to saving them herself. Orlando's issue with Mayfly is a good example of starting to explore what kind of committment Diana would have to saving her enemies over time.

I also really like the challenge this presents where transformation and healing is actually what Diana aims for with her foes, because from a writing perspective you both need to see her succeed at it (say, with Vanessa or Mayfly for example), but for villains to stay threatening she also needs to fail at it (with Circe). And the back and forth of near success (with Cheetah) creates tragedy and tension. This kind of concept seems more fit to Diana than perhaps any other DC hero. There's also potential for introducing Amazon characters on that island who work directly with these "villains", and who act as the source of some of this wisdom and practice on transformative justice, encouraging Diana when she finds it difficult or loses her way, and acting as foils to other Amazons who are hotter headed (hi Artemis).

Ok seems interesting. I have to admit that I'm not very familiar with the specific techniques around the world. I've heard some things about Rwandan prisons that sound interesting, although quite surprising (such as prisioners being allowed to leave the prison during holidays to keep them connected to the outside world). Would like to understand more of what you have in mind.

I mean if the lasso get be ridden of the whole mind control aspect why not have the Venus girdle be for the more serious violent ones. They have their own thoughts just can't attack others. Now the question is should it be on the Island or where Diana lives. I know someone said maybe it should be in it's own Dimension

Have to say between the pic with the decapitated heads and the leaks of the original plans for JL, we dodged quite the bullet with Wonder Woman only being directed by Snyder a few times.

More like an intercontinental ballistic missile but point taken.

Wonder Woman's Snydercut teaser:

[video=youtube;BY2799T9LKI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY2799T9LKI[/video]

[QUOTE=AlexLyo;5396225]While a brainwashing prison feels really out of touch for Diana now, I do wonder if a revamp of the concept could be more about expanding the tradition of transformative justice in the Amazons' philosophy. There's so much amazing work out there in that field in the real world right now, and it would really fit Diana's ethos to lean into that. I think that probably means we're not talking about an island of incarceration and brainwashing, but an island that's a centre of excellence for transformative justice wisdom and practice, and possibly for respite, healing and change for those "villains" who need it. Something to act in contrast to the brutality of the prison system Diana is having to currently drop her enemies into (when she catches them). It doesn't really fit for me that Diana would just hand over villains to a system that won't support them in changing when she is committed to saving them herself. Orlando's issue with Mayfly is a good example of starting to explore what kind of committment Diana would have to saving her enemies over time.

I also really like the challenge this presents where transformation and healing is actually what Diana aims for with her foes, because from a writing perspective you both need to see her succeed at it (say, with Vanessa or Mayfly for example), but for villains to stay threatening she also needs to fail at it (with Circe). And the back and forth of near success (with Cheetah) creates tragedy and tension. This kind of concept seems more fit to Diana than perhaps any other DC hero. There's also potential for introducing Amazon characters on that island who work directly with these "villains", and who act as the source of some of this wisdom and practice on transformative justice, encouraging Diana when she finds it difficult or loses her way, and acting as foils to other Amazons who are hotter headed (hi Artemis).[/QUOTE]

Bingo. This.

I’ve worked on Reform/Transformation Island in my Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee and have developed its history to the Amazons and the when and why a “prison” is built there. It’s one of three archipelagos to Themyscira that I’m working on.

Hey maybe the brainwashing could be what some villains have done to when they got the venus girdle. Also what about the purple healing ray? I have an idea that Diana is trying to build one but it can't be used due to the different materials on the Island compared to outside world. I had the idea that Doris wanted to use that on herself and this is what caused her power.

[QUOTE=FutureWonder;5395444]I will never understand why Diana has never been used in any major way in the Legion. It boggles the mind that an immortal demigoddess has not been featured in any LSH book that I remember. I also don't remember any LSH story that mentions the amazons or Diana.[/QUOTE]

Because she's only been a demigoddess since the nu52, and LSH has been in shambles for decades...also, I don't think being a demigod doesn't automatically make you immortal. And Amazons are only immortal if they stay on the Island, yet age more slowly when off the Island vs normal mortals.

Jumpa is back
[IMG]https://static3.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/jumpa-wonder-woman-770.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=412&dpr=1.5[/IMG]

I wonder if Jumpa will ever be seen outside the island

I heard she once had telepathy of some kind. If so, what happened to that power?

[QUOTE=Mik;5429429]I heard she once had telepathy of some kind. If so, what happened to that power?[/QUOTE]

It was erased after post crisis.

[QUOTE=Agent Z;5429438]It was erased after post crisis.[/QUOTE]

Why? It would make her power set more interesting.

She had one other in Super friends like controlling her plane and her lasso

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5429466]She had one other in Super friends like controlling her plane and her lasso[/QUOTE]

Haha, i've never watched super friends.

Does she have any other hidden powers?

She could change her voice much like Superman in one comic version. She could make her lasso shapeshift. Golden age she can go so fast she could go to other dimension. She could astral projection

[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5429596]She could change her voice much like Superman in one comic version. She could make her lasso shapeshift. Golden age she can go so fast she could go to other dimension. She could astral projection[/QUOTE]

Cool. Why doesn't she use those powers anymore?

[QUOTE=Mik;5429604]Cool. Why doesn't she use those powers anymore?[/QUOTE]

Probably for the same reason superman shoot a mini version of himself out of his hand anymore. It's just the times changing and people want their superheroes to have limits and rules on their powers, or don't want their heroes to have "silly" powers. (all their powers are silly when you apply physics to them :p)

[QUOTE=I'm a Fish;5429643]Probably for the same reason superman shoot a mini version of himself out of his hand anymore. It's just the times changing and people want their superheroes to have limits and rules on their powers, or don't want their heroes to have "silly" powers. (all their powers are silly when you apply physics to them :p)[/QUOTE]

I don't think astral projection or telepathy are silly, especially since Martian Manhunter does it. The thing is, Superman already has so many powers so he doesn't need extra. But Wonder Woman's power set is just Superman's with fewer powers, so she's a bit shortchanged IMO

She can talk to animals. Her lasso allows her to bind and force people to admit the truth and she has warrior training.

I actually think Diana's powers are more manageable that Superman's. The latter's super senses alone makes any fight choreography impossible.

[QUOTE=John Venus;5429858]She can talk to animals. Her lasso allows her to bind and force people to admit the truth and she has warrior training.

I actually think Diana's powers are more manageable that Superman's. The latter's super senses alone makes any fight choreography impossible.[/QUOTE]

Diana's got super senses too, but what cool about hers is that she can even feel movements in air pressure, which is why she can block bullets without even looking at them. And superman's hearing is often used as a weakness instead of a strength.

[QUOTE=I'm a Fish;5429876]Diana's got super senses too, but what cool about hers is that she can even feel movements in air pressure, which is why she can block bullets without even looking at them. And superman's hearing is often used as a weakness instead of a strength.[/QUOTE]

:p

[IMG]https://pm1.narvii.com/5773/3c14c25991a4d64a8e078467351fb6cf6eb9ff3f_hq.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Mik;5429805]I don't think astral projection or telepathy are silly, especially since Martian Manhunter does it. The thing is, Superman already has so many powers so he doesn't need extra. But Wonder Woman's power set is just Superman's with fewer powers, so she's a bit shortchanged IMO[/QUOTE]

I don't think those powers are silly either, I just think people think they are silly if Wonder Woman has them. I don't agree with that, but I can imagine people thinking "why would an amazon warrior have telepathy?".

[quote=gaius;5429878]:p

[img]https://pm1.narvii.com/5773/3c14c25991a4d64a8e078467351fb6cf6eb9ff3f_hq.jpg[/img][/quote]

the exact moment i was thinking of!!! Looool

Oh also I forgot about her super cool gauntlet slapping shockwave power that the comics don't utilize nearly enough of. It's like Hulk's thunder clap only it glows!

[QUOTE=I'm a Fish;5429891]Oh also I forgot about her super cool gauntlet slapping shockwave power that the comics don't utilize nearly enough of. It's like Hulk's thunder clap only it glows![/QUOTE]

Yeah, there was some stuff pre-movie that was kind of similar to it but I'd like to see it more incorporated into Diana's standard abilities.

She used it quite a few times in the movies.

Id prefer Diana to be empathic than telepathic. It’d just fit more with her character, I would think.

I guess so. But telepathy seems to be an uncommon power in the JL

[QUOTE=Mik;5429460]Why? It would make her power set more interesting.[/QUOTE]

She gets accused of being a Superman ripoff just for being a flying brick. Giving her telepathy is just asking for people to compare her to Martian Manhunter.

[QUOTE=Agent Z;5430450]She gets accused of being a Superman ripoff just for being a flying brick. Giving her telepathy is just asking for people to compare her to Martian Manhunter.[/QUOTE]

Those people need to get a better hobby. It is ridiculous how with WW, it always seems to be a problem portraying her as a powerhouse. As if SM owns the rights to beng a fying brick or as if MM owns the thelepathy rights. For many years now. DC has been doing a pretty bad job with WW. They will hype her up a lot, only to come out short. If they really think she is all that powerful. It's about time they start to actually show it on panel. And stop worrying about who is or isn't "unique" because of a power set.

[QUOTE=Mik;5430447]I guess so. But telepathy seems to be an uncommon power in the JL[/QUOTE]

In DC, everyone gets super speed. In Marvel, everyone gets telepathy (X-men characters to be exact).

[QUOTE=I'm a Fish;5430509]In DC, everyone gets super speed. In Marvel, everyone gets telepathy (X-men characters to be exact).[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it would be nice if there was more of an even distribution of powers in the JL and the Avengers. The secondary characters always seem to be the ones with interesting powers. Martian Manhunter alone seems to have half the potential superpowers in the team.

[QUOTE=Shadowcat;5430265]Id prefer Diana to be empathic than telepathic. It’d just fit more with her character, I would think.[/QUOTE]

Same, I'd tie to the blessing she gets from Aphrodite.

Empathic means just sensing emotions, not full thoughts, right?

[QUOTE=Mik;5430657]Empathic means just sensing emotions, not full thoughts, right?[/QUOTE]

That's correct.

Ok. I'd be ok with her having some extra abilities besides the basic strength/speed/invulnerability. It's about as generic as it gets.

Sad to see Superman being used as a jobber. He deserves better.