Wonder Woman - General Discussion

There's this topic I mentioned in another thread and I would welcome your viewpoints. I feel that one of the missed opportunities with Steve Trevor was showing us his own relationship with masculinity and societal rules.

As a cis bisexual man who loves strong willed and physically powerful women, I've always been at odds with how my father enforced masculinity in a way that cultivated autonomy, initiative and control, which are things all human beings need regardless of gender. But those same expectations also made me afraid of being seen as "passive" because of a horrid notion of "a man being effeminate", in all the natural ways I like to express tenderness. For goodness sake, his generation doesn't even know how to hug his son without patting them on the back to make it less "womanly". And these aren't intrinsic things, I've been able to change his mind over time.

I don't think Steve would have the same relationship with masculinity as I do, but l would love to see someone explore the deeper implications this has on him.

And specially, what kind of impact did Paradise Island and the amazons have on him and how he views gender.

[QUOTE=Alpha;6016601]There's this topic I mentioned in another thread and I would welcome your viewpoints. I feel that one of the missed opportunities with Steve Trevor was showing us his own relationship with masculinity and societal rules.

As a cis bisexual man who loves strong willed and physically powerful women, I've always been at odds with how my father enforced masculinity in a way that cultivated autonomy, initiative and control, which are things all human beings need regardless of gender. But those same expectations also made me afraid of being seen as "passive" because of a horrid notion of "a man being effeminate", in all the natural ways I like to express tenderness. For goodness sake, his generation doesn't even know how to hug his son without patting them on the back to make it less "womanly". And these aren't intrinsic things, I've been able to change his mind over time.

I don't think Steve would have the same relationship with masculinity as I do, but l would love to see someone explore the deeper implications this has on him.

And specially, what kind of impact did Paradise Island and the amazons have on him and how he views gender.[/QUOTE]

I LOVE this ^^^ post and I would absolutely love seeing your points explored in a Wonder Woman book. Personally, I'd think that a cisgender heterosexual man like Steve Trevor, who despite being raised in our ciscentric, heterosexist society still falls for a woman who will inevitably be better than him at pretty much everything and will outshine him socially in every way every single time, must be somewhat progressive in his personal views of gender roles and masculinity for him to willingly be with Diana. I mean, let's not sugarcoat it, u gotta be super confident and secure in your so-called masculinity if you are going to be the boyfriend of Wonder Woman, who just happens to be the most powerful woman [literally] in the world. Because of how our gender norms are conceptualized, this dynamic is something that Lois Lane and Mary Jane Watson don't have to struggle with in regard to their relationships with Superman and Spider-Man. But Steve? He would most likely have to self reflect on everything he was taught about gender and assigned gender roles once he decides to be romantically involved with the amazing amazon we all love.

I like to think Steve's mother being in the military had a huge impact on how he viewed woman and predicated him towards accepting Diana and the Amazons with little hesitation.

Of course he would accept it, and easily. But shouldn't it have a more profound positive effect than just that?

[QUOTE=Alpha;6016601]There's this topic I mentioned in another thread and I would welcome your viewpoints. I feel that one of the missed opportunities with Steve Trevor was showing us his own relationship with masculinity and societal rules.

As a cis bisexual man who loves strong willed and physically powerful women, I've always been at odds with how my father enforced masculinity in a way that cultivated autonomy, initiative and control, which are things all human beings need regardless of gender. But those same expectations also made me afraid of being seen as "passive" because of a horrid notion of "a man being effeminate", in all the natural ways I like to express tenderness. For goodness sake, his generation doesn't even know how to hug his son without patting them on the back to make it less "womanly". And these aren't intrinsic things, I've been able to change his mind over time.

I don't think Steve would have the same relationship with masculinity as I do, but l would love to see someone explore the deeper implications this has on him.

And specially, what kind of impact did Paradise Island and the amazons have on him and how he views gender.[/QUOTE]

I really like this idea and topic to explore in stories. It’s a topic that’s absolutely timely as we know more about gender and it’s constructs than ever before. It’s certainly fits the Marston spirit of concepts Wonder Woman should explore, challenge and champion.

Thank you for sharing your personal story Alpha.

I’d love a series of issues or subplot where this gets explored, discussed and compared/contrasted between Steve, Siggy, Etta, Amanda Waller, Achilles Warkiller, Heracles and Doctor Psycho. Lots of angles from which to approach it and lots of intersectionality to discuss.

[QUOTE=Alpha;6016601]There's this topic I mentioned in another thread and I would welcome your viewpoints. I feel that one of the missed opportunities with Steve Trevor was showing us his own relationship with masculinity and societal rules.

As a cis bisexual man who loves strong willed and physically powerful women, I've always been at odds with how my father enforced masculinity in a way that cultivated autonomy, initiative and control, which are things all human beings need regardless of gender. But those same expectations also made me afraid of being seen as "passive" because of a horrid notion of "a man being effeminate", in all the natural ways I like to express tenderness. For goodness sake, his generation doesn't even know how to hug his son without patting them on the back to make it less "womanly". And these aren't intrinsic things, I've been able to change his mind over time.

I don't think Steve would have the same relationship with masculinity as I do, but l would love to see someone explore the deeper implications this has on him.

And specially, what kind of impact did Paradise Island and the amazons have on him and how he views gender.[/QUOTE]

Steve Trevor was written to be the anti-masculine man. He's not masculine. He's not Bruce, Clark (though he hasn't been written this way for a while), Zorro, Flash Gordon, Tarzan, Conan, etc. I think was Fuzzy Mittens who mentioned Steve is basically dad material. The guy who take kids to parks, zoo, cooks, goes on dates with Diana. Also at the same time, Steve should be written as a highly-respected and capable military man (well, to a certain extent gotta get saved by Wonder Woman ;)). Steve Trevors would be closer to Maes Hughes (minus the dying of course) than anything.

Steve should definitely have his badass moments, not going to lie.

I like this property the Lasso has on those who shouldnt be handling it
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/tjqLvKoetmpmfah2i2Yso4IA8Q4J_YwFpeQsxYxrKcsbPb3FNveG-eApMpNtnZvr9LhzROLlgRHWhQkthhIwNRjMWrIFDHS2GWtw3SttN4CvqtjuySeu7LJWXOP4wDCwF-x06Fgkig=s1200[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/sSgAZjHD4ON33Yb0E1hNpjrauaN6s4pKnwjYanTQKTMkh6P9hn6G-r8fPsHW3RRgrVeH7O0WPCvemojBrpBNdjPgPhmEwgKiZbsWRnPSt9syp-bYGxJoW4AzAN6RSMIy33FPIZmacg=s1200[/img]

A couple of movie reboots down the road, this would be a good take for a film
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/FXq3JTl7amNvsIFUdFv9lqZVrUJP72UPCVjmSRSPThGyToiM_GRb1hLceJJxbQjLUhmY2OIFJ7GzuwIMkCUCMT0LAA_6nkDeksvSyKQeloEUAK-sawNcrLNm40DyywEKi_ZyqGeWswk=s1200[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/9mh1LvE8p51y1k7yYZwHBUNpNBpVY2shdb9wZrGjcyp1q0BQ5lR4jwQfHYmo-PabhbVN_EUGRxpRw9ZThbv-9uyZgNofG_tHVKWe16Xn2BSUE8JcHaWQ58YH3PQ5yqaPkSOncy6ymXc=s1200[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/PR-_-rSuAAzLVG107JKWc3kZ-rLhQciN-KL35489cYiGXMbo5Vsu0Rfrsba0gFxBc9ZYN8FS5TG5UPOVe0x1D9bILPF41lftsykPc8SkI_TJYaMHp5KaHkjEneDEOdM_AGlXhYvQXo4=s1200[/img]

Ane-Comics?

[QUOTE=Frontier;6030447]Ane-Comics?[/QUOTE]

yep. Shame the art went down drastically after the first issue.

[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6030455]yep. Shame the art went down drastically after the first issue.[/QUOTE]
Hard to top Amanda Conner...

[URL="https://aiptcomics.com/2022/05/02/dc-comics-first-seven-pages-of-dark-crisis-1/"]Wonder Woman Dark Crisis (lol) tie-in in September.
[/URL]
[QUOTE]
Dark Crisis: Worlds Without a Justice League – Wonder Woman #1 – Tini Howard (w) and Leila Del Duca (a); Martian Manhunter backup by Dan Watters (w) and Bandon Peterson (a)
[/QUOTE]

So it will not at all interupt the Wonder Woman book and will instead be contained to a one shot by the current Catwoman writer

Well, at least the silly gimmick event is keeping themselves contained and not spilling over to the rest of the titles.

Makes sense too as the price of the average comic has gone up so you can't expect audiences to buy 3 dozen tie ins.

Kinda weird tho. One would expect that a comic where character x DIES would have some effects on character x series

[QUOTE=Gaius;6032302][URL="https://aiptcomics.com/2022/05/02/dc-comics-first-seven-pages-of-dark-crisis-1/"]Wonder Woman Dark Crisis (lol) tie-in in September.
[/URL][/QUOTE]
I've heard mixed things about Tini Howard.

[QUOTE=Fuzzy Mittens;6032353]So it will not at all interupt the Wonder Woman book and will instead be contained to a one shot by the current Catwoman writer[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=John Venus;6032411]Well, at least the silly gimmick event is keeping themselves contained and not spilling over to the rest of the titles.[/QUOTE]
Thank Christ for that. This whole death of the League/Dark Crisis nonsense has just started and I already wish it was over with.

[QUOTE=Frontier;6032474]I've heard mixed things about Tini Howard.[/QUOTE]
Can't speak for her Catwoman, but I understand she writes a pretty lousy Betsy Braddock.

As I said in another thread, I expect this comic will be mainly from Yara or Donna's POV and be about how much they miss Wonder Woman with a bunch of lip service about how important she is/was.

Probably would have more impact if Diana didn't just "die" and come back less than a year ago, and her latest "death" actually meant something and wasn't just Pariah's hand-wave of doom.

[QUOTE=Frontier;6032474]I've heard mixed things about Tini Howard.[/QUOTE]

Never read anything by her. So no expectations but that also puts on the higher end of DC's writers I'd trust with WW. lol

[QUOTE=Frontier;6032474]I've heard mixed things about Tini Howard.[/QUOTE]

Her Marvel stuff is not good, but I've been enjoying her Catwoman.

Justice league old cartoons were the best


[url]https://youtu.be/NQafLjPRXGM[/url]

[QUOTE=Frontier;6032474]I've heard mixed things about Tini Howard.[/QUOTE]

Writing is kinda controversial, she really makes herself a bit uninteligible on Excalibur. You either love (my case) or hate her run with the mutants.

But her Catwoman run is being funny enough. Just gained her a little more polemic for reasons beside her writing because Ram V's was being the best thing that has happened to the character in recent history, and DC cut it after only 13 numbers. Howard's run has a very diferent setting and tone, but when you forget Ram V it's an interesting change for Selina. More bisexual indeed

Rewatching WW and ....good times back in the day lol. These were aliens.
[img]https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ru_JLUMUkiQ/Vu6_q93jkxI/AAAAAAAAnGI/zD32LkaFPwUxRT7kEhAeAhFhxrSQo9V-Q/s1600/3-20-2016%2B9-16-57%2BAM.png[/img]

Reminds me of Back to the Future when Marty pretended to be an "alien"

[QUOTE=Nyssane;6032568]Her Marvel stuff is not good, but I've been enjoying her Catwoman.[/QUOTE]

I too can attest to enjoying her Catwoman.

I love them. 70s fantastic-ness. Back when television wardrobe departs would use anything to create a costume. Lol.

I’ve been working on the Skrill in my Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee - too bad whatever you do with them, someone will think you’re ripping of the name Skrull.

[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6040595]Rewatching WW and ....good times back in the day lol. These were aliens.
[img]https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ru_JLUMUkiQ/Vu6_q93jkxI/AAAAAAAAnGI/zD32LkaFPwUxRT7kEhAeAhFhxrSQo9V-Q/s1600/3-20-2016%2B9-16-57%2BAM.png[/img][/QUOTE]

LOL!! Skrill!!

Not Skrull! SKRILL!!

They will steal your mind and store them for sale! After all, a mind is a terrible thing to waste! But only the good ones. :p

I haven't checked out WW in a while, are Diana, Steve and Siegfried a throuple now? Good for them.

The sound effects for WW when she uses her powers/lasso are everything. The lasso effect being a computer processing something was a good choice i guess.

[QUOTE=OopsIdiditagain;6042159]I haven't checked out WW in a while, are Diana, Steve and Siegfried a throuple now? Good for them.[/QUOTE]

Only in fan fiction.

I took a risk with this comic and not only did I enjoy it and have fun like when I was a child, but the whole Wonderdon part was fantastic, I hope they continue on that path with this character.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/B8ezVGT.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=OopsIdiditagain;6042159]I haven't checked out WW in a while, are Diana, Steve and Siegfried a throuple now? Good for them.[/QUOTE]

Steve and Siegfried are currently bro roommates, which has been basically fish-out-of-water comedy shtick to this point.

[QUOTE=Sebastianne;6049752]I took a risk with this comic and not only did I enjoy it and have fun like when I was a child, but the whole Wonderdon part was fantastic, I hope they continue on that path with this character.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/B8ezVGT.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

Original idea for WW was apparently a Pteranodon.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6050077]Original idea for WW was apparently a Pteranodon.[/QUOTE]

Looks like a Triceratops, not a Pteradon.

[QUOTE=Phoenixx9;6050136]Looks like a Triceratops, not a Pteradon.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, like I said the original idea was for a Pteranodon before the artist decided a Triceratops worked better.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6050151]Yeah, like I said the original idea was for a Pteranodon before the artist decided a Triceratops worked better.[/QUOTE]

Ah.

But maybe... the Pteradon was a better idea since Dianasaurus could then glide on air currents.....?

[QUOTE=Sebastianne;6049752]I took a risk with this comic and not only did I enjoy it and have fun like when I was a child, but the whole Wonderdon part was fantastic, I hope they continue on that path with this character.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/B8ezVGT.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Yeah I thought Jurassic League ruled, can’t wait for this version of the Trinity to meet!

[QUOTE=Phoenixx9;6050155]Ah.

But maybe... the Pteradon was a better idea since Dianasaurus could then glide on air currents.....?[/QUOTE]

Yeah but Triceratops > Pteranodon.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6050151]Yeah, like I said the original idea was for a Pteranodon before the artist decided a Triceratops worked better.[/QUOTE]

I was googling the Triceratops to find some relation to the name of WonderDON, even the dinosaur version of Hippolyta speaks of themselves as the 'DONS', and I couldn't find anything.
I am far from knowing anything or being a dinosaur specialist beyond the Jurassic Park movie, so I was left with the doubt.
Will this be the explanation? Because she rides a PterodnoDON.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6050194]Yeah but Triceratops > Pteranodon.[/QUOTE]

Lol, true, Triceratops is a much stronger dinosaur form than a Pteradon, and I guess more appropriate overall for Dianasaurus.

I don't know how The World's Finest fits into canon, but the origin of clay here is very clear.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/PcHGyUx.jpg[/img]