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[QUOTE=Gaius;6507109]Yeah, I got to wonder how successful Gunn's reboot will be given it'll have to overcome DC films being seen as synonymous with "bad movies" and there's two more DC films to get through until his Superman film.[/QUOTE]
This is the point everyone keeps trying to dodge, dismiss, or minimize. But it's so real. And the numbers as well as the reviews bear this out.
While Gal had a good run as WW w/6 appearances (making her the actor with the most dc film appearances) it is a shame that she didn't get to bring Diana to a proper end and be the first female hero with a trilogy.
Glad Gadot seems to be in a good place and is excited about where she goes from here. She was one of the only highlights of the DCEU and while I think that whole thing needs to be burned down for the greater good, I'm still gonna miss her Diana and it's a shame she didn't get to finish a trilogy. Haven't seen WW84 I hear it's so bad, but a good finale would've been nice.
[QUOTE=HotBoy;6507060]Insiders are claiming that there's "no such thing as superhero movie fatigue," but I think that's wishful thinking on their part. [/QUOTE]
Maybe. One thing I learned after college is that everyone, no matter how educated or experienced, has their blind spots and biases. And it seems like the higher you climb the corporate ladder, the less aware of them you become.
[QUOTE]It's pretty much because all of these films follow the exact same model. And that can only be boring after the 56th time you've seen it.[/QUOTE]
Which is why I believe this is more a matter of "bad movie/I've seen this before" fatigue and not genre fatigue. I think if we were looking at genre fatigue, and audiences were bored of superheroes as a concept, then we wouldn't be seeing success in places like The Boys, Wandavision, Spider-Verse, etc. Most of the genre's hits these days appear to come from the projects that were weird/different/experimental, while most of the average/failures are often ones that have followed the standardized MCU/Iron Man formula.
And when 75% of the genre's content is made by one studio, and 90% of what they make is formulaic, I get why people think it's the whole genre.
[QUOTE=Vordan;6507151]Can’t agree personally. The only C-List characters that have done consistently well have been MCU movies.[/QUOTE]
Sure, but the only characters that have done consistently well, at all, are MCU movies. Outside of Marvel, there hasn't *been* a 'consistent' to use as a metric. We can say that the only A-listers to do consistently well are MCU movies too. DC is consistently bad, with only a couple highlights to their name. Sony is a 50/50 split, with stuff as great as Spider-Verse and as bad as Morbius. And those three are about the only major, regular players in the game now. Everyone else just dabbles, I think. Back when Fox was still making superhero movies they were a mixed bag leaning towards 'bad' too.
[QUOTE=Mantis-Ray;6507627]
With Marvel they've hit that inevitable point where if your making so many movies, not all of them are gonna be hits. They've become the average and it doesn't help they've become extremally formulaic and by committee in their film design.[/QUOTE]
And there it is again. I dunno about anyone else but the complaint I keep hearing online, and in reviews and such, isn't usually 'superheroes suck and the concept is dumb, costumes are silly' it's 'I'm tired of the same old thing, I'm bored and after fifteen years I'm no longer entertained by it.'
[QUOTE]With Gunn there's hope he can at least provide a unique vision to the franchise, that is hopefully better received than Snyder's.[/QUOTE]
His recent talk about taking a more 'mythological' approach makes me a bit optimistic. But we're still two years away from the 'true' start of the new DCU so who knows how things will turn out?
You all here acting like James Gunn career on WB will survive this summer
[QUOTE=Garrac;6509843]You all here acting like James Gunn career on WB will survive this summer[/QUOTE]
It will lol. He didn’t greenlight Black Adam, The Flash, Shazam 2, Blue Beetle, or Aquaman 2. All of those were greenlit by Walter Hamada who was pushed out. Gunn’s career will live or die by the success or failure of Superman: Legacy.
[QUOTE=Vordan;6509852]It will lol. He didn’t greenlight Black Adam, The Flash, Shazam 2, Blue Beetle, or Aquaman 2. All of those were greenlit by Walter Hamada who was pushed out. Gunn’s career will live or die by the success or failure of Superman: Legacy.[/QUOTE]
That's logic. Stop asuming Warner Bros acts according to logic. They don't even care about business logic.
[QUOTE=Garrac;6509873]That's logic. Stop asuming Warner Bros acts according to logic. They don't even care about business logic.[/QUOTE]
Zaslav may be a lot of things but he knows the old regime films dont matter in the new regime. Gunn is that new regime, has a 2 year deal and it will be seen through.
[img]https://i.ibb.co/rf9VN1n/Batman-Superman-World-s-Finest-2022-016-020.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.ibb.co/pZMWgVV/Batman-Superman-World-s-Finest-2022-016-021.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.ibb.co/4mZ15fd/Batman-Superman-World-s-Finest-2022-016-022.jpg[/img]
The only thing that throws me of is the random bandages.
[QUOTE=Frontier;6510645]The only thing that throws me of is the random bandages.[/QUOTE]
And them big-@$$ bracelets. ��
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6509960]Zaslav may be a lot of things but he knows the old regime films dont matter in the new regime. Gunn is that new regime, has a 2 year deal and it will be seen through.[/QUOTE]
You're telling me he at least has that inner business logic 24 hours after it came to the understatement of the periodists that he's going to gut the TCM movies, mere months after he promised he'd defend them on the TCM festival.
I don't trust Warner with nothing until I see a trailer, or worse
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6506045][SPOIL]I haven't seen [I]Flash[/I], nor do I plan to because it looks terrible. But I've seen a handful of clips on Twitter and other places.
Cool to see Diana indisputably fly at least. Though there is something sadly ironic that the (most likely) last we'll see of Gal Gadot's Diana in a movie is her flying away.
[/spoil][/QUOTE]
It's not that bad. And a huge bonus is that the comic book Flashpoint will likely never make it into live action in the foreseeable future.
[B][SIZE=4]Wonder Woman's Gal Gadot Hints at Behind-the-Scenes Work on Her DCU Future[/SIZE][/B]
[IMG]https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/gal-gadot-as-diana-prince-drawing-her-sword-in-wonder-woman-2017.jpg?q=50&fit=contain&w=1140&h=&dpr=1.5[/IMG]
[url]https://www.cbr.com/gal-gadot-hints-wonder-woman-work-dcu-future-hope/[/url]
[QUOTE]Amid speculation of her prospects in the DC Universe, acclaimed actor Gal Gadot hints the Wonder Woman film franchise may still have a future after all.
Speaking with Entertainment Tonight at Netflix's Tudum: A Global Fan Event in São Paulo, Brazil, Gadot was asked about whether the films would continue after the latest sequel was scrapped as part of a major DC Studios overhaul. The Israeli actor suggested there are discussions taking place behind the scenes about the film series, revealing she'll soon have more information to share with DCU fans. "Things are being worked behind the scenes...and once the right moment arrives, you'll know about it," she said.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Garrac;6510992]You're telling me he at least has that inner business logic 24 hours after it came to the understatement of the periodists that he's going to gut the TCM movies, mere months after he promised he'd defend them on the TCM festival.
I don't trust Warner with nothing until I see a trailer, or worse[/QUOTE]
I don't trust WB or Zaslav either, but I *do* think Gunn is safe until his own stuff starts to hit. He was hired to clean up the mess of the DCEU, and I don't think the current regime at WB is quite foolish enough to blame him for the mistakes he was explicitly hired to correct.
[QUOTE=Frontier;6510645]The only thing that throws me of is the random bandages.[/QUOTE]
It's not a bandage. it's a form of cloth wrap the Greeks used to use instead of gloves.
[QUOTE=Ascended;6511780]I don't trust WB or Zaslav either, but I *do* think Gunn is safe until his own stuff starts to hit. He was hired to clean up the mess of the DCEU, and I don't think the current regime at WB is quite foolish enough to blame him for the mistakes he was explicitly hired to correct.[/QUOTE]
Just as a show of how fools they can be:
[url]https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1671970150822584325?s=20[/url]
Will y'all really trust this motherfuckers to do something logic?
[QUOTE=Garrac;6512293]Just as a show of how fools they can be:
[url]https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1671970150822584325?s=20[/url]
Will y'all really trust this motherfuckers to do something logic?[/QUOTE]
There is a method to the madness. They are in heavy debt and so they are selling off whatever they can and doing tax write offs to save money.
[QUOTE=Garrac;6512293]Just as a show of how fools they can be:
[url]https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1671970150822584325?s=20[/url]
Will y'all really trust this motherfuckers to do something logic?[/QUOTE]
Ha, I was just talking about them selling off assets the other day!
But there's indeed logic to that. Business logic, which is different from people logic a lot of the time. We're just sitting on the wrong side of the equation to benefit from it.
I already knew it so it wasnt surprising but lord...putting together Superman and Batman fam live action takes....WW starving big time. truly ridiculous.
Wonder Woman #800 in top 10 of the top 50 comics sold by units.
[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/WonderWoman/comments/14u6e7h/wonder_woman_800_in_top_10/[/url]
Priest disrespecting Wonder Woman? Who could've foreseen this?!
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0xX7IpWAAkXoE1?format=jpg&name=900x900[/IMG]
...aside from everyone....
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6530278]Priest disrespecting Wonder Woman? Who could've foreseen this?!
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0xX7IpWAAkXoE1?format=jpg&name=900x900[/IMG]
...aside from everyone....[/QUOTE]
I don't see what this accomplishes other than making Lois look bad.
I always felt that Lois Lane of all people would be the very last person to be chosen as the female character to tell Diana "I never liked you." If anything, I think Diana would be the female superhero that would most elicit feelings of trust and sisterhood/camaraderie out of LOis.
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6530278]Priest disrespecting Wonder Woman? Who could've foreseen this?!
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0xX7IpWAAkXoE1?format=jpg&name=900x900[/IMG]
...aside from everyone....[/QUOTE]
Lois herself states she is not being rational. I'm not really seeing how Diana is being disrespected.
Can't really say I care all that much.
I don't read Superman anymore and consider Wonder Woman's "friendship" with him to be an active detriment to her as a character so how she's portrayed in a book which I A) a
not read and B) expect her to be treated badly doesn't really mean much to me.
What book is this?
While I dont need everyone in the dc universe to get along....Lois being annoyed or not liking Diana is off. If anything I would think she wouldn't be Selina Kyles biggest fan
[img]https://64.media.tumblr.com/bc5c0336d49068c90f6c227ac92c1a03/tumblr_nndwrv6DLX1sqep2mo1_1280.png[/img]
I'd prefer the nuanced middle ground of Lois having petty jealous feelings towards Diana but also a great deal of genuine admiration, and liking her as a person.
This right here is just stupid, not helped by Priest being a lousy WW writer in general.
I think the Phil Jiminez interview issue handled it the best.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/Xxjecir.jpeg[/img]
[QUOTE=Frontier;6530818]I think the Phil Jiminez interview issue handled it the best.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/Xxjecir.jpeg[/img][/QUOTE]
Surely complete coincidence it was by a writer who actually likes Wonder Woman.
Also from over 20 years ago.
I guess everyone knows by now that Hawkgirl (alongside Mr. Terrific & Guy Gardner), played by Isabela Merced, will be making her big screen live action debut in [I]Superman Legacy[/I], confirmed by James Gunn himself. What really excites me about this is that the inevitable first Justice League film from the DCU might actually have more than one female member in its roster. Obviously, WW will be part of it, but now we know that Supergirl and Hawkgirl are going to be a part of the DCU, so maybe one of them will be in JL. The Wonder Woman/Hawkgirl combo has been a fan favorite for a loooong time. I definitely look forward to actually seeing Diana interact with other supergals in a team setting.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6530870]Surely complete coincidence it was by a writer who actually likes Wonder Woman.
Also from over 20 years ago.[/QUOTE]
True, but it shows that Diana and Lois can work together.
[img]https://static.dc.com/sites/default/files/imce/2015/02-FEB/SENWW_26_300-010_HD_54ee618860eab8.85620159.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6530879]I guess everyone knows by now that Hawkgirl (alongside Mr. Terrific & Guy Gardner), played by Isabela Merced, will be making her big screen live action debut in [I]Superman Legacy[/I], confirmed by James Gunn himself. What really excites me about this is that the inevitable first Justice League film from the DCU might actually have more than one female member in its roster. Obviously, WW will be part of it, but now we know that Supergirl and Hawkgirl are going to be a part of the DCU, so maybe one of them will be in JL. The Wonder Woman/Hawkgirl combo has been a fan favorite for a loooong time. I definitely look forward to actually seeing Diana interact with other supergals in a team setting.[/QUOTE]
I remember her relationship with Shayera in the DCAU was kind of...difficult, but I don't think we see Diana and Kendra that much.
[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6530797]I'd prefer the nuanced middle ground of Lois having petty jealous feelings towards Diana but also a great deal of genuine admiration, and liking her as a person.
This right here is just stupid, not helped by Priest being a lousy WW writer in general.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sold on her being jealous, but I'm cool with it when there's nuance. I just think the root of her envy needs to be that Diana can connect with all of the parts of him that she can't access rather than "superhumanly hot lady in a skimpy outfit who's close to my husband." Phil Jimenez largely approached it the right away, where a big thing that sets off Lois' jealousy is Diana calling him Kal (though I've never liked how he gave Diana lingering feelings for Clark).
I don't mind Lois fixating on how hot and strong Diana is though. I just think Clark should be the one who's jealous of Diana because Lois has a schoolgirl crush on her :P
[QUOTE=Frontier;6530945]I remember her relationship with Shayera in the DCAU was kind of...difficult, but I don't think we see Diana and Kendra that much.[/QUOTE]
Man, between the whole Lois jealousy thing and the WW/Hawkgirl rivalry in JL/JLU, it really does show how many writers hate female friendships.
Hopefully there have been enough shows/movies about women actually being friends that we don't have to deal with the "women are catty" nonsense in the new DCU...
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCA8eoFXsAUvqsL.jpg:large[/img]
[img]https://dccomicsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/A-Gown-For-A-Princess.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/67/3b/32/673b32a08fa6e912eddb5b616ce4e1b1.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Frontier;6530945]True, but it shows that Diana and Lois can work together.
[img]https://static.dc.com/sites/default/files/imce/2015/02-FEB/SENWW_26_300-010_HD_54ee618860eab8.85620159.jpg[/img]
[/QUOTE]
When written by WW writers, seemingly.
Guess it's beyond the talents of the writers of other DC characters.
[QUOTE=Frontier;6530945]
I remember her relationship with Shayera in the DCAU was kind of...difficult, but I don't think we see Diana and Kendra that much.[/QUOTE]
Insufferable would be a better word. Could not stand those two acting like 5-years old towards each other for 4 seasons when I rewatched JL/JLU.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6531168]When written by WW writers, seemingly.
Guess it's beyond the talents of the writers of other DC characters.[/QUOTE]
I don't think Priest is a barometer of most DC writers.
[QUOTE]Insufferable would be a better word. Could not stand those two acting like 5-years old towards each other for 4 seasons when I rewatched JL/JLU.[/QUOTE]
The episode where they finally get along the one episode where they finally address the Lasso of Truth's powers 5 seasons later :p.
[QUOTE=bardkeep;6531074]I'm not sold on her being jealous, but I'm cool with it when there's nuance. I just think the root of her envy needs to be that Diana can connect with all of the parts of him that she can't access rather than "superhumanly hot lady in a skimpy outfit who's close to my husband." Phil Jimenez largely approached it the right away, where a big thing that sets off Lois' jealousy is Diana calling him Kal (though I've never liked how he gave Diana lingering feelings for Clark).
I don't mind Lois fixating on how hot and strong Diana is though. I just think Clark should be the one who's jealous of Diana because Lois has a schoolgirl crush on her :P
Man, between the whole Lois jealousy thing and the WW/Hawkgirl rivalry in JL/JLU, it really does show how many writers hate female friendships.
Hopefully there have been enough shows/movies about women actually being friends that we don't have to deal with the "women are catty" nonsense in the new DCU...[/QUOTE]
I think Lois is shallow/petty enough that "my husband's super hot co-worker who wears a revealing bathing suit spends a lot of time with him" would be a legit issue with her. It should just never be the sum total of her feelings for Diana, the deeper emotions (positive and negative) should be there too.
Part of the appeal of Lois is that she isn't a saint. She's can be petty and cutting, in addition to being intelligent, brave, loving, compassionate, etc. She's a woman who will value Jimmy as a friend and professional photographer, but also lose patience with him and call him a weird dumbass if he's annoying her on a bad day.
Priest is just not the person to write the dynamic, because we're not gonna get any nuance. Not with Diana involved at least
Diana's only in that issue for the one page.
They go through a succinct conversation where Lois asks her for the Lasso of Truth cause Superman is still incredibly despondent and shell-shocked over being back on Earth.
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6530604]What book is this?[/QUOTE]
Superman: Lost
Basically shit happens and Superman is transported an incomprehensible time-displaced distance away from Earth and he has no idea how to get back. So it took him 20 years to return to Earth and as a result he's severely traumatized by the experience.
The series covers both his feelings of depression in the modern day as his family adjust to his current condition and flashbacks detailing his odyssey back home.
Plus this is an Elseworlds book so none of this is actually reflective of their main universe versions.
And what do people think of Kurt Busiek? I found this conversation very interesting
[url]https://twitter.com/KurtBusiek/status/1679244331323125760[/url]
[QUOTE]
I wrote a pre-Crisis WONDER WOMAN fill-in and a mini-series right at the tail end of CRISIS (both of which are collected in WONDER WOMAN: FORGOTTEN LEGENDS), and she was one of the leads in TRINITY 1-52 (collected in three TPBs).
Glad you liked that SUPERMAN appearance! It...
...was originally written and drawn as a WONDER WOMAN story guest-starring Superman (again, pre-Crisis), but it didn't get finished by the time WW got rebooted. So decades later, Richard Howell and I reworked it as a SUPERMAN story guest-starring WW (mostly by moving the story...
...from Washington DC to Metropolis and bringing in Lois rather than Etta). I wanted to do more with Khyrana but we never found the right place for it.
The reason it opens the way it does, by the way, is that when Richard and I conceived the story, the first thing he said was...
..."I want to start off by drawing Wonder Woman ripping a car in half." So that's what we did.
I wanted to have Diana confront Zeus to get him to lift the curse. And then Khyrana was going to sap Zeus's power so she was god-powered, on Olympus and very, very angry.
I don't remember where we were going to go from there.
[/QUOTE]
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[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F03QpfLaEAAMmVS?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F03QIgYaAAANjC9?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Lucas 35;6531432]And what do people think of Kurt Busiek? I found this conversation very interesting
[url]https://twitter.com/KurtBusiek/status/1679244331323125760[/url]
[/QUOTE]
Probably wrote one of the only good post-Marston pre-Crisis WW stories with Trina Robbins. Found the other times he's written her to be good.
Think he's probably one of the only few whose written a good Wonder Woman, Superman, and Batman solo stuff.