Wonder Woman - General Discussion

I watched [I]Thor: Love and Thunder [/I]and I found it a blast and a half. Yes, it had a lot of jokes, but jokes in action movies is not a new thing or an invention of the MCU. And it most definitely IS NOT a bad, sinful, shameful thing (somehow, many CBM fans have convinced themselves that comedy in action films "lessens" said films, or worse...that it "disrespects the source material." Huh?). Many of the best, most iconic, most beloved action films of all time have tons of comedic elements. But yes, I agree that we all enjoy different things. I love my CBMS to be fun, joyful, and funny (as well as action-packed, emotionally resonant, and with high stakes, all of which T:L&T was). I totally understand that the comedy in Thor 3 is not for everybody. Oh, well.

[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6114497]I watched [I]Thor: Love and Thunder [/I]and I found it a blast and a half. Yes, it had a lot of jokes, but jokes in action movies is not a new thing or an invention of the MCU. And it most definitely IS NOT a bad, sinful, shameful thing (somehow, many CBM fans have convinced themselves that comedy in action films "lessens" said films, or worse...that it "disrespects the source material." Huh?). Many of the best, most iconic, most beloved action films of all time have tons of comedic elements. But yes, I agree that we all enjoy different things. I love my CBMS to be fun, joyful, and funny (as well as action-packed, emotionally resonant, and with high stakes, all of which T:L&T was). I totally understand that the comedy in Thor 3 is not for everybody. Oh, well.[/QUOTE]

Thor: Ragnarök had plenty of comedy and barely anyone thought that it lessened the film. Ant-Man has PLENTY of comedy and its very well liked. Not to mention Deadpool. Love and Thunder isnt the first film to incorporate comedy, just plenty of people think it overpowered everything in the movie and wasn't written well.

[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6114021]The audience score, reviews, and RT wont be making any comebacks.
[/QUOTE]

They are aggregate scores. They will fluctuate as more people give their scores.

Anyway, people are entitled to their opinion but whether you liked Thor 4 or not, opinions are not facts.

But what does Thor 4 have to do with WW anyway?

[QUOTE=John Venus;6114768]They are aggregate scores. They will fluctuate as more people give their scores.

Anyway, people are entitled to their opinion but whether you liked Thor 4 or not, opinions are not facts.

But what does Thor 4 have to do with WW anyway?[/QUOTE]

Zeus is actually in it, he's not just talked about.

[QUOTE=John Venus;6114768]They are aggregate scores. They will fluctuate as more people give their scores.

Anyway, people are entitled to their opinion but whether you liked Thor 4 or not, opinions are not facts.

But what does Thor 4 have to do with WW anyway?[/QUOTE]

The only facts we have are scores right in front of us. But yeah other than that, most of us have agreed that our opinions arent facts.

Comparing L&T and 84 ties into WW

I don't care what anyone says, I bet a Wonder Woman film directed by Taika Waititi would be fun AF, and I bet he would make the amazons more science fiction-meets-high-camp-meets Greek Myth than the usual sword-and-sandals tropes that we get in most media.

[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6115040]I don't care what anyone says, I bet a Wonder Woman film directed by Taika Waititi would be fun AF, and I bet he would make the amazons more science fiction-meets-high-camp-meets Greek Myth than the usual sword-and-sandals tropes that we get in most media.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree with this.

[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6115040]I don't care what anyone says, I bet a Wonder Woman film directed by Taika Waititi would be fun AF, and I bet he would make the amazons more science fiction-meets-high-camp-meets Greek Myth than the usual sword-and-sandals tropes that we get in most media.[/QUOTE]

No one is denying his directing skills.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6114440]Wonder if all this Thor talk is how Superman fans feel when the Captain America movies are compared to the modern Superman films. :p[/QUOTE]

The Thor/Wonder Woman comparisons are so surface-level it honestly makes me wonder if those people have ever read or watched any Thor/Wonder Woman media. :p

[QUOTE=I'm a Fish;6115509]The Thor/Wonder Woman comparisons are so surface-level it honestly makes me wonder if those people have ever read or watched any Thor/Wonder Woman media. :p[/QUOTE]

It's generally people having to make "equivalents" in different forms of media, so when comparing the DC Trinity to the Avengers current big three you get Superman=Captain America, Batman=Iron Man and Wonder Woman=Thor.

I agree the comparision is superficial (as are the other two).

[QUOTE=I'm a Fish;6115509]The Thor/Wonder Woman comparisons are so surface-level it honestly makes me wonder if those people have ever read or watched any Thor/Wonder Woman media. :p[/QUOTE]

Well, speaking like an authority on Wonder Woman when you've also read little-to-no Wonder Woman seems like a prerequisite for a large chunk of DC fans, so not too surprising.

;)

[QUOTE=Gaius;6115997]Well, speaking like an authority on Wonder Woman when you've also read little-to-no Wonder Woman seems like a prerequisite for a large chunk of DC fans, so not too surprising.

;)[/QUOTE]

I think it's also a prerequisite for being a DC media executive. :p

Give me enough time and I can write up a similar superficial comparison between WW84 and Batman Returns:

-Both are Christmas movies.

-Bespectacled blonde woman who is constantly harassed until she reaches her breaking point and adopts a fursona that represents their inner desire. Both are initially ignored by the hero.

-Evil rich guy who acts as an opportunist and enabler.

-Hero is rejected by their love interest at the end of the movie for the 'greater good'.

-Both Bruce Wayne and Diana wear coats in their respective movie whilst standing near a Christmas tree.

-Villain gets electrocuted in the movie.

-One of the threats of the movie are missiles. Both heroes hack into live transmissions during the movie.

-Hero beats up masked bad guys at the beginning of the movie.


If only WW84 had Diana race through the sewers to stop a penguin army from shooting missiles at newborns whilst being chased by Maxwell Lord on a giant yellow duck, that might have gotten it better reviews.

Just shows that superhero films aren't that original.

Someone do 84 and the 2nd Wolverine next.

[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6115040]I don't care what anyone says, I bet a Wonder Woman film directed by Taika Waititi would be fun AF, and I bet he would make the amazons more science fiction-meets-high-camp-meets Greek Myth than the usual sword-and-sandals tropes that we get in most media.[/QUOTE]

I would agree with you. Just saw Love and Thunder yesterday and liked it. It certainly wasn't the mess that WW84 was and had some great action scenes, something that just isn't happening under Patty.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/CaTOPVS.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Gaius;6125553][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/CaTOPVS.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

My only but is that they could not be consistent with the Artist, although the style is similar, it was difficult for me to understand several panels.

[QUOTE=Sebastianne;6126049]My only but is that they could not be consistent with the Artist, although the style is similar, it was difficult for me to understand several panels.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, art was a major step down from the first two issues.

[URL="https://muldercomics.wordpress.com/2006/03/26/wonder-woman-hiketeia-making-of-the-cover/"]Process work and earlier concept for the Hiketeia cover.[/URL]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Xbs4iq8.png[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/VDKk42e.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Gaius;6127133][URL="https://muldercomics.wordpress.com/2006/03/26/wonder-woman-hiketeia-making-of-the-cover/"]Process work and earlier concept for the Hiketeia cover.[/URL]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Xbs4iq8.png[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/VDKk42e.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Everything you want Batman iteracting with Wonder Woman distilled into one picture. :p

[QUOTE=Gaius;6127133]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/VDKk42e.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Wow, Diana is such a badass

[Img]https://dvdprime.com/g2/data/cheditor5/1708/view_thumbnail/mania-done-20170813154744_tsqwnlou.jpg[/img]

[Img]https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/hostedimages/1473772797i/20512172._SY540_.jpg[/img]

This is why we love Diana
[Img]https://i.pinimg.com/236x/05/03/65/050365f6912a76c9eb3faf2945096e7f.jpg[/img]
[Img]https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1424712193l/25003088.jpg[/img]

I personally dislike Warrior Woman as much as many here, but those levels of violence are not comparable. Plus Batman was uncharacteristically assholish during [I]The Hiketeia[/I] (even a bit OOC, something that also happened to him in a League of One) so it kinda makes sense she'd be having none of it.

Having none of it isn't the same thing as having a super woman that can crush his skull put her boot on top of a coworker and fellow hero's head while he is lying weak on the ground and slowly telling him in a vile way:

Don't
Get
Up

Despite her main tool being an unbreakable lasso made to restrain others.

It's a very low moment in her time as a hero, specially when she is all about empowerment. He was an asshole doing what he thought a hero should do.

And she humiliated him in the most unecessary manner. Nothing heroic about it, it's just sad. No reason to glorify that. The images I posted are just as vile as the one people here keep celebrating. Specially the one where she is holding Donna Troy by her hair, and the one where she is hanging Steve Trevor with her lasso

[QUOTE=Gaius;6127133][URL="https://muldercomics.wordpress.com/2006/03/26/wonder-woman-hiketeia-making-of-the-cover/"]Process work and earlier concept for the Hiketeia cover.[/URL]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Xbs4iq8.png[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/VDKk42e.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Nice, thank you, never seen this before!
So at some point the name of Batman was also going to head the graphic novel?

[QUOTE=Sebastianne;6127426]Nice, thank you, never seen this before!
So at some point the name of Batman was also going to head the graphic novel?[/QUOTE]
Seems like it. There's a few other pics on the page I linked to with alternate title designs.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6127133][URL="https://muldercomics.wordpress.com/2006/03/26/wonder-woman-hiketeia-making-of-the-cover/"]Process work and earlier concept for the Hiketeia cover.[/URL]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Xbs4iq8.png[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/VDKk42e.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Yowza, I can't tell if Rucka's suggestion that it be a strappy sandal made the original version inherently horny or if JG Jones made it horny by drawing it as a very femme pointed-toe high heel rather than an actual gladiator sandal.

Either way I'm glad they went with the boot for the same reasons Jones mentioned and I prefer the expression he settled on for Batman. Part of me wishes they'd kept the Greek column but it's true that the starkness of the final cover is really striking.

[QUOTE=bardkeep;6129385]Yowza, I can't tell if Rucka's suggestion that it be a strappy sandal made the original version inherently horny or if JG Jones made it horny by drawing it as a very femme pointed-toe high heel rather than an actual gladiator sandal.

Either way I'm glad they went with the boot for the same reasons Jones mentioned and I prefer the expression he settled on for Batman. Part of me wishes they'd kept the Greek column but it's true that the starkness of the final cover is really striking.[/QUOTE]

Column is interesting but I think I prefer the all white background, like you said it's more stark/striking.

I know Rucka wanted to have WW's swimsuit redesigned to something more Greek hoplite in his first run (WB/DC apparently shot it down) so I assume the strap sandal was maybe testing the idea.

Dark Crisis: The Deadly Green

[img]https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/DarkCrisis_TheDeadlyGreen_1-25Ratio_Beach.jpg[/img]

With how much b###### the character has to take from DC. Those covers should be her stepping on DC editors. LOL

Not a fan of the Hiketeia cover, it’s very unlike Diana to press her foot against somebody’s face imo. She wouldn’t do it to Cizko, let alone a comrade in arms. To me, Wonder Woman is sugar, spice and everything nice, she doesn’t have it in her to be obnoxious, even to horrible people like Psycho who deserve it

rawr

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/qENEXO0.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=VonHammersmark;6129564]Not a fan of the Hiketeia cover, it’s very unlike Diana to press her foot against somebody’s face imo. She wouldn’t do it to Cizko, let alone a comrade in arms. To me, Wonder Woman is sugar, spice and everything nice, she doesn’t have it in her to be obnoxious, even to horrible people like Psycho who deserve it[/QUOTE]

I don't think she'd do that either, but I'm fine with it as a cover. They're striking images and it does really, really sell the fight it promises. Covers often have out of character shit. They're designed to draw the eye and grab attention. It's very successful at that.

But the action itself and what happens during the fight in general feels like fanfic gone too far. Neither of them feel in character for me.

I don't mind Diana pressing her foot on Batman's head both in the cover and the story itself. In the context of the story, he had it coming. My main issue was how needlessly dickish and antagonistic Batman was written just to justify him and WW coming to blows so Diana will have an excuse to pin him down like that.

[QUOTE=John Venus;6131743]I don't mind Diana pressing her foot on Batman's head both in the cover and the story itself. In the context of the story, he had it coming. My main issue was how needlessly dickish and antagonistic Batman was written just to justify him and WW coming to blows so Diana will have an excuse to pin him down like that.[/QUOTE]

Batman in the story in my opinion is better viewed similar to how Superman was used in DKR, whittled down to his most basic stereotype through a very unflattering lenses. He exists to be more as an obstacle for WW than as an actual character in the story.

Unfair to Batman? Sure. Tit for tat imo given Batman writers are far more guilty of this than vice-versa. ;)

It's also worth noting we never get in his head/Pov about what he actually thinks of all this.

[QUOTE=John Venus;6131743]I don't mind Diana pressing her foot on Batman's head both in the cover and the story itself. In the context of the story, he had it coming.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by "had it coming"

You have read the story you're constantly criticizing right?

[QUOTE=Gaius;6131783]Batman in the story in my opinion is better viewed similar to how Superman was used in DKR, whittled down to his most basic stereotype through a very unflattering lenses. He exists to be more as an obstacle for WW than as an actual character in the story.

Unfair to Batman? Sure. Tit for tat imo given Batman writers are far more guilty of this than vice-versa. ;)

It's also worth noting we never get in his head/Pov about what he actually thinks of all this.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, true. But eye for an eye leaves everybody blind.

If I had to make any alteration to the story, I would have Bruce either being subtly manipulated by the Furies or the girl ended up harming someone close to him (Gordon, Vesper or Vicki or Dick) and that's why he is so hellbent on capturing the girl.

[QUOTE=John Venus;6131743]I don't mind Diana pressing her foot on Batman's head both in the cover and the story itself. In the context of the story, he had it coming. My main issue was how needlessly dickish and antagonistic Batman was written just to justify him and WW coming to blows so Diana will have an excuse to pin him down like that.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, If he took that girl away, it would have broken the Hiketeia and Diana would have died. And he either didn't believe her or didn't care because the law is more important, despite the glaring hypocrisy of that ideology coming from Batman because he breaks it [B][I]all the time[/I][/B].

[QUOTE=John Venus;6131909]You have read the story you're constantly criticizing right?



Yeah, true. But eye for an eye leaves everybody blind.

If I had to make any alteration to the story, I would have Bruce either being subtly manipulated by the Furies or the girl ended up harming someone close to him (Gordon, Vesper or Vicki or Dick) and that's why he is so hellbent on capturing the girl.[/QUOTE]

Oh, that actually wouldn't be a bad idea given, from what I recall, the Furies were the ones who pushed Dany into killing the folks she did.

Definitely would have made more sense if it was someone like Captain Atom, Peacemaker or Vigilante.