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[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GD1B5OsWwAAFp9C?format=jpg&name=medium[/img]
The biggest thing about the biker outfit is the bra. Turn it into a stylized shirt and the costume is already 10x better.
The Finch costume is like 3-4 different costumes in one. The shoulder pads? Is she in Dynasty? The thigh high boots? As she's weiaring pants? With....is that loin cloth? Not to mention the huge gauntlets...that also double as stabby blades for some reason? And she has as collared shirt?
InJustice isnt even that bad. Change the top, get rid of the gold trim where it shows where the "OG" costume is suppose to be and just have the stars right there...not that bad of a design
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f2/4d/c3/f24dc33ce7ba78fa75cd19552e4dc3d8.png[/img]
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Why do people here hate Kanigher's run? From what I've seen its standard Silver Age affair (including the questionable gender dynamics between Diana and Steve) - super dated, but not much worse than any of the other non-WW titles coming out at the same time.
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[QUOTE=marhawkman;6705282]Every time I see the biker outfit my brain refuses to see it as WW and thinks it should be Donna Troy. :p[/QUOTE]
Aw, no way! Donna does not need that bad outfit nor that bad hair!
Donna has a WONDERful black and silver costume and flowing locks.
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[QUOTE=LordUltimus;6705304]Why do people here hate Kanigher's run? From what I've seen its standard Silver Age affair (including the questionable gender dynamics between Diana and Steve) - super dated, but not much worse than any of the other non-WW titles coming out at the same time.[/QUOTE]
To use a few examples
We had one issues wherin Ronno, Wingo, and Steve grab, toss, and drag Wonder Woman around like a football with her having zero agency as they fight over her and treat her like an object and she does not protest this until a man comes in and declares she should be treated with dignity....Before turning out to be a villain trying to conquer the world, with the message being that things like treating women with respect is a ploy.
We had another issue in which a woman insists that she wants to be more and become a hero just like Wonder Woman and Diana takes her along adventuring and proceeds to upstage the girl and save her from danger to force the woman to realize...That no woman can do what Wonder Woman can do, and she should instead focus on getting married and having children because thats all women are good for.
Then theres the issue where Steve uses the magic lasso on Diana in order to try forcing her to give up superheroing, and become nothing but his obedient housewife in order to pump out kids, because a womans place is in the kitchens and they have no business working.
Over the course of twenty years of stories, Kanigher made some amazingly bad garbage
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[QUOTE=LordUltimus;6705304]Why do people here hate Kanigher's run? From what I've seen its standard Silver Age affair (including the questionable gender dynamics between Diana and Steve) - super dated, but not much worse than any of the other non-WW titles coming out at the same time.[/QUOTE]
Ive also read Superman, batman, and other titles from the Silver Age, and trust me, Wonder Woman was still easily the worst.
First of all, the machismo, already exposed by Fuzzy Mittens. You see the wondy fans complaining when she doesn't appear a lot in a story? Well, none did it worse than Kanigher. Some times Steve Trevor was so much more of a protagonist that you even wondered why the hell bother not put his name on the title.
Then, the temendouuuuuuus lack of originality and ideas. Otto Binder could throw you a lot of crazy ideas on 13 pages, while Kanigher could write... a recycled story from 7 years ago. Or the same story from past year, but written in a very slight diferent way. Many of Kanigher villains are just the same character but with other costume, neer bothering to settle on one.
Also, the disappearance of all Wonder Woman recurring cast and villains. Etta Candy and the Holiday Girls, fundamental for the narrative of the Golden Age, are switched for Steve Trevor, who was used only as a tool by Marston, and the worst ****ty "boyfriends" you can ever imagine.
How hard did Kanigher try to transform Wonder Woman into an Archie character, with much lamer male versions of Lois Lane and Lana Lang.
The ****in racism. You thin kthe number where Lois Lane changes her skin colour is bad? I mean, yes, it's bad, but haven't you heard of EGG-FU?
Kanigher tried to give Wonder Woman a father like three times, if I don't missremember, and funnily enough, none were Zeus.
And there's more, it's one of the, if not the most, radical transofrmations Wonder Woman has ever had. It's not that he hasn't had any lasting contributions to the Wondy mythos, like Nubia, bust most of those are remembered thanks to following authors that took those ideas and improved them.
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[QUOTE=Phoenixx9;6705316]Aw, no way! Donna does not need that bad outfit nor that bad hair!
Donna has a WONDERful black and silver costume and flowing locks.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say GOOD, just that any time I see it I think "Donna Troy".
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[QUOTE=marhawkman;6705708]I didn't say GOOD, just that any time I see it I think "Donna Troy".[/QUOTE]
Lol, well, think of someone else wearing it! :p
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[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEyxswPWsAAXMyd?format=jpg&name=large[/img]
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;6689965]Everytime people talk about post crisis reducing Diana's significance, I wonder what they are talking about. If anything, Diana was [I]far[/I] more important than she had ever been by virtue of having one of the best received runs at the beginning.[/QUOTE]
I mean her role in DC history, by her being a newcomer without an established history the way the other big players were, and she was no longer a founding member of the JLA, or connected to the JSA.
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[QUOTE=witchboy;6710027]I mean her role in DC history, by her being a newcomer without an established history the way the other big players were, and she was no longer a founding member of the JLA, or connected to the JSA.[/QUOTE]
JSA isn't really a problem, because ideally they should be on their own Earth with their own Wonder Woman. Or if it's all on one Earth, just have the JSA be without her because Superman and Batman weren't part of that generation either.
But yeah, her not being one of the first superheroes in the JLA generation has always been dumb, because it's not like there wasn't a ton of published material by DC showcasing her as such. Marvel doesn't have the same problems with the Avengers- if they refer back to the old issues, canon stays more or less consistent with who was on the team. That contributes to some of the dumb continuity problems we have now. Her quality of stories improved dramatically with Perez, but why not just set it in the early days instead of the present so as not to disrupt the rest of it?
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Ulp.
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GE26pdebgAA-4D1?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]
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Personally, WW's "history" in the DC Universe should always bend the knee to WW's solo book in terms of priority as that's more important than her being the token woman on the JSA/JLA.
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[QUOTE=LordUltimus;6710092]Ulp.
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GE26pdebgAA-4D1?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Hoping he answered this more as she can be a brutal warrior and have some nasty fights. He also probably doesn't want to "anger" anybody far in advance.
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[QUOTE=Gaius;6710107]Personally, WW's "history" in the DC Universe should always bend the knee to WW's solo book in terms of priority as that's more important than her being the token woman on the JSA/JLA.[/QUOTE]
I agree on JSA, but her role as a founder of JLA is important. No reason why DC editors couldn't have solved that issue.
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[QUOTE=Gaius;6710107]Personally, WW's "history" in the DC Universe should always bend the knee to WW's solo book in terms of priority as that's more important than her being the token woman on the JSA/JLA.[/QUOTE]
Nothing in her solo book post Crisis really justified the domino effect of her role in the shared universe being altered.
Like, ask yourself: is the Perez run changed a great deal if it were set earlier? Not remotely. There are nothing but positives and the biggest headache (Donna getting screwed over) is gone. Considering the WW fandom owes Donna for even getting Perez on WW in the first place, this has always been a needless annoyance.
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[QUOTE=HsssH;6710119]I agree on JSA, but her role as a founder of JLA is important. No reason why DC editors couldn't have solved that issue.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6710123]Nothing in her solo book post Crisis really justified the domino effect of her role in the shared universe being altered.
Like, ask yourself: is the Perez run changed a great deal if it were set earlier? Not remotely. There are nothing but positives and the biggest headache (Donna getting screwed over) is gone. Considering the WW fandom owes Donna for even getting Perez on WW in the first place, this has always been a needless annoyance.[/QUOTE]
This an ultimately an issue of preference so I don't really think one of us wrong here. I don't consider the shared universe to be huge point of importance when it comes to WW, so it's ultimately not an issue to me if WW's in-universe gets altered. If I want to read WW running in around in WW2, I would just go actually read Golden Age WW.
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Guest stars and team-ups are pretty cool at least.
Like reading Sandman Mystery Theater which is primarily solo adventures for Wesley which is great but the moment he gets in his first team-up with his first hero he meets Hourman was really hype.
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Just for some fun, given the public domain talk, tried to do a break down of all the notable/semi-notable stuff from WW that enters the public domain starting from 2036 onwards. Restricting myself to the Marston/Hummel era);
[B]Already in the public domain[/B]: Hippolyta, the Amazons, the Gods, Hercules, the name "Themyscira", Circe.
[B]2037[/B]: Wonder Woman, Diana Prince, Steve Trevor, Paradise Island, General Darnell, Mala
[B]2038[/B]: Etta Candy, the Holiday Girls, Dr. Poison, Duke of Deception, Earl of Greed, Lord Conquest, Paula Von Gunther, Queen Desira, the Invisible Plane, the Magic Lasso, the Purple Healing Ray, the clay origin.
[B]2030[/B]: Cheetah (Priscilla Rich), Dr. Psycho, Fausta Grables, Zara
[B]2040[/B]: Giganta, Queen Clea, Evilless, Hypnota,
[B]2042[/B]: Blue Snowman,
[B]2044[/B]: Villainy Inc, Minister Blizzard
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[QUOTE=Gaius;6710595]Just for some fun, given the public domain talk, tried to do a break down of all the notable/semi-notable stuff from WW that enters the public domain starting from 2036 onwards. Restricting myself to the Marston/Hummel era);
[B]Already in the public domain[/B]: Hippolyta, the Amazons, the Gods, Hercules, the name "Themyscira", Circe.
[B]2036[/B]: Wonder Woman, Diana Prince, Steve Trevor, Paradise Island, General Darnell, Mala
[B]2037[/B]: Etta Candy, the Holiday Girls, Dr. Poison, Duke of Deception, Earl of Greed, Lord Conquest, Paula Von Gunther, Queen Desira, the Invisible Plane, the Magic Lasso, the Purple Healing Ray, the clay origin.
[B]2038[/B]: Cheetah (Priscilla Rich), Dr. Psycho, Fausta Grables, Zara
[B]2039[/B]: Giganta, Queen Clea, Evilless, Hypnota,
[B]2041[/B]: Blue Snowman,
[B]2043[/B]: Villainy Inc, Minister Blizzard[/QUOTE]
I wonder if the PD creators can get away with having Diana fight an actual cheetah-woman without getting sued by DC? Like, what if they make Cheetah an alien from another dimension? Or if she gets her powers after getting bitten by a radioactive cheetah? :p
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[QUOTE=Psy-lock;6710683]I wonder if the PD creators can get away with having Diana fight an actual cheetah-woman without getting sued by DC? Like, what if they make Cheetah an alien from another dimension? Or if she gets her powers after getting bitten by a radioactive cheetah? :p[/QUOTE]
A character who is a were-Cheetah might actually work, since that's exactly what Barbara and Priscilla AREN'T.
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Golly thats a pretty nice list there
Probably a large swath of lesser villains not on that list, such as Gundra, Queen Atomia, and Queen Sharkeeta, but a good focus on big players
Honestly one could do a werecheetah in the opposite direction (Cheetah becoming some were-beast) and it would be considered original as well.
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[QUOTE=Psy-lock;6710683]I wonder if the PD creators can get away with having Diana fight an actual cheetah-woman without getting sued by DC? Like, what if they make Cheetah an alien from another dimension? Or if she gets her powers after getting bitten by a radioactive cheetah? :p[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Fuzzy Mittens;6710700]Golly thats a pretty nice list there
Probably a large swath of lesser villains not on that list, such as Gundra, Queen Atomia, and Queen Sharkeeta, but a good focus on big players
Honestly one could do a werecheetah in the opposite direction (Cheetah becoming some were-beast) and it would be considered original as well.[/QUOTE]
Would probably be considered cutting it too close to Barbara (who won't be entering PD in any of our lifetimes).
Nothing stopping you from making Priscilla turn in a werewolf version of another Big Cat though. :p
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Could a PD story just use Priscilla as the Cheetah wearing a costume and getting empowered by another source that none of the DC incarnations have?
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[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6710766]Could a PD story just use Priscilla as the Cheetah wearing a costume and getting empowered by another source that none of the DC incarnations have?[/QUOTE]
Presumably yes, just so long as it's something DC couldn't reasonably claim is stealing/infringes on a story they have that's still under copyright
Though companies/estates can be litigious when it comes to this, like how Conan Doyle's estate went after a lot of Holmes adaptations.
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Random thought...while discussing Donna's reactions to losing to Diana in the Donna Troy thread, I had a thought...more a question. Diana admitted to not playing video games very often and was competing against someone who did play fairly often (with Gar and Vic at the least.) Diana is one of those who just seems to be good at everything....but is that skill or more part of the gifts of the gods? Would her inherent gift from Athena allow her to take a lead in something like this? To intuitively know what to do to win? Is it something Ares would have given her?
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[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6710766]Could a PD story just use Priscilla as the Cheetah wearing a costume and getting empowered by another source that none of the DC incarnations have?[/QUOTE]
A were-leopard could be fun. :D Maybe she found a cursed relic or something?
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[QUOTE=OBrianTallent;6711023]Random thought...while discussing Donna's reactions to losing to Diana in the Donna Troy thread, I had a thought...more a question. Diana admitted to not playing video games very often and was competing against someone who did play fairly often (with Gar and Vic at the least.) Diana is one of those who just seems to be good at everything....but is that skill or more part of the gifts of the gods? Would her inherent gift from Athena allow her to take a lead in something like this? To intuitively know what to do to win? Is it something Ares would have given her?[/QUOTE]
It's a superpower, but hard to say why exactly. Gift of wisdom maybe.
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[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/pw/ABLVV84p52Q3_TZiu5q6sPty4lSFd174Sg5IxyZaFJyCmsHUIeXFhDRCBUvtvPEhd1EHogLKrRhJW1oHAqcK05S0OG-7ReW6G8lDQt_xD641VA3Hmhc4Cqc=s1600?rhlupa=MjYwMTo0ODQ6ODAwMzpiNjAwOmYwNTg6NGQ3ZDo1MTIyOmIxOGE=&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzEyMC4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2[/img]
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[QUOTE=Gaius;6710739]Would probably be considered cutting it too close to Barbara (who won't be entering PD in any of our lifetimes).
Nothing stopping you from making Priscilla turn in a werewolf version of another Big Cat though. :p[/QUOTE]
I mean like a Cheetah the animal turning into some sort of werehybrid with humanoid traits
Could give it a name like Barbie Pallas or something
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We probably won't know whats ok untill someone tries it, gets sued and wins in the court.
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Maybe do something like the suit is powered up by a mystical artifact or a deity. Or something, probably not the best representation like the split personality is the Cheetah with powers while Rich is a normal human.
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[QUOTE=Skytten;6711843]Maybe do something like the suit is powered up by a mystical artifact or a deity. Or something, probably not the best representation like the split personality is the Cheetah with powers while Rich is a normal human.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm that could be interesting :D Like magical power armor that's really just clothes.
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It's occurred to me...since I believe [I]Beast World[/I] is wrapping up...we just got through a Tom Taylor-written event where nothing bad happened to Wonder Woman. As far I've seen, she was just kinda in the background the whole time, wrastlin' Garro with Superman and some other heroes.
I wasn't expecting her to do anything noteworthy since this has been a [I]Titans[/I] story first and foremost, but I'll admit I'm a little shocked Taylor didn't have her get swatted aside or transformed into a beast for someone else to put down. And given this is Taylor we're talking about, that's a small miracle.
Not much, but considering today we've gotten a one-two punch of the [I]Suicide Squad[/I] game and the Trinity special, I'll take some good news.
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Wonder Woman comes in at #4 for 10 Most Iconic DC Superhero Costumes, Ranked
[url]https://www.cbr.com/dc-most-iconic-superhero-costumes-of-all-time/[/url]
[quote]Wonder Woman wasn't the first female superhero, but she became the most popular. She quickly became a superstar, getting her own solo series and joining Superman and Batman in the pantheon of DC's most popular heroes. Wonder Woman's costume was amazing - a red top with a golden eagle on it and a blue skirt with white stars - but it would get better when it lost the skirt. Topped off by her tiara and accessorized by her golden bracelets, Wonder Woman's bloomer costume became her most recognizable look.
An argument can be made that her modern skirted version is Wonder Woman's best costume, but it's not the most iconic. Wonder Woman's costume highlighted the character's sexuality, which was important for the time and would be lauded by '70s feminist icon Gloria Steinem, setting a new standard for superheroine costumes. Wonder Woman has a long history, and her bloomer costume is the first thing fans see when they hear the name, "Wonder Woman."[/quote]
Also #3 for 10 Best DC Graphic Novels, Ranked - Wonder Woman: Earth One Presents A Unique Version Of Wonder Woman From One Of Comics' Greatest Creators
[quote]Grant Morrison had their turn writing Batman and Superman, but their time on Wonder Woman might be the most noteworthy. DC’s Earth One line allowed Morrison to tell a story about Wonder Woman unrestrained by continuity. Despite this, Morrison’s habit of using elements from every era of a character’s history are obvious to longtime fans of the Amazonian princess.
The first Earth One graphic novel sees Wonder Woman’s journey away from Themyscira. As she adjusts to the rules in the world of man, the world of man is forced to adjust to her. Earth One provides a vision of Wonder Woman different from what fans might be accustomed to, yet true to her roots as a character who brings peace and understanding over war.[/quote]
#7 for 10 Best Justice League Costumes, Ranked - The DCEU Has Wonder Woman's Best Costume
[quote]Since the Golden Age of comics, William Moulton Marston's Wonder Woman has been one of the most recognizable, treasured heroes in comics. However, she has also been a good example of all the excesses of costume redesigns in comics, with just about every decade seeing its highs and lows. That said, her classic costume has always been king, and whenever creators embrace that look, Wonder Woman shines.
In 2017, Wonder Woman received a long-overdue solo movie that followed her journey away from Themyscira to "man's world," where she and Steve Trevor sought a way to end World War I. It was here where the hero was given her best costume, which took the classic Silver Age look and translated it into live action. With vibrant colors and a warrior's look, Diana became the only DC hero to have her best design on the big screen, rather than in comics.[/quote]
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[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6711304][img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/pw/ABLVV84p52Q3_TZiu5q6sPty4lSFd174Sg5IxyZaFJyCmsHUIeXFhDRCBUvtvPEhd1EHogLKrRhJW1oHAqcK05S0OG-7ReW6G8lDQt_xD641VA3Hmhc4Cqc=s1600?rhlupa=MjYwMTo0ODQ6ODAwMzpiNjAwOmYwNTg6NGQ3ZDo1MTIyOmIxOGE=&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzEyMC4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2[/img][/QUOTE]
The jet feels kind of over-designed here.
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6713015]It's occurred to me...since I believe [I]Beast World[/I] is wrapping up...we just got through a Tom Taylor-written event where nothing bad happened to Wonder Woman. As far I've seen, she was just kinda in the background the whole time, wrastlin' Garro with Superman and some other heroes.
I wasn't expecting her to do anything noteworthy since this has been a [I]Titans[/I] story first and foremost, but I'll admit I'm a little shocked Taylor didn't have her get swatted aside or transformed into a beast for someone else to put down. And given this is Taylor we're talking about, that's a small miracle.
Not much, but considering today we've gotten a one-two punch of the [I]Suicide Squad[/I] game and the Trinity special, I'll take some good news.[/QUOTE]
Taylor definitely loves Donna more than he loves Diana, at any rate.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;6713781]The jet feels kind of over-designed here.
Taylor definitely loves Donna more than he loves Diana, at any rate.[/QUOTE]
Love? He doesn't ecven like Diana.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;6713781]The jet feels kind of over-designed here.
[/QUOTE]Also it's kinda not a jet.
Look at the shape of the engine cowlings. hmm... actually... found a match:
[img]https://www.aircharteradvisors.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/King-Air-250-main-e1603227856391.jpg[/img]
This one is a King Air 250, but several of the models are very similar. Nearly the same lines though.
King Air 100:
[img]https://www.aircharteradvisors.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/turboprop-aircraft-charter-2.jpg[/img]
Also the artist tried to draw internal components and not just the plane outline.
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[QUOTE=marhawkman;6714152]Also it's kinda not a jet.
Look at the shape of the engine cowlings. hmm... actually... found a match:
[img]https://www.aircharteradvisors.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/King-Air-250-main-e1603227856391.jpg[/img]
This one is a King Air 250, but several of the models are very similar. Nearly the same lines though.
King Air 100:
[img]https://www.aircharteradvisors.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/turboprop-aircraft-charter-2.jpg[/img]
Also the artist tried to draw internal components and not just the plane outline.[/QUOTE]
The Wonder Plane!
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[QUOTE=Gaius;6710595]Just for some fun, given the public domain talk, tried to do a break down of all the notable/semi-notable stuff from WW that enters the public domain starting from 2036 onwards. Restricting myself to the Marston/Hummel era);
[B]Already in the public domain[/B]: Hippolyta, the Amazons, the Gods, Hercules, the name "Themyscira", Circe.
[B]2037[/B]: Wonder Woman, Diana Prince, Steve Trevor, Paradise Island, General Darnell, Mala
[B]2038[/B]: Etta Candy, the Holiday Girls, Dr. Poison, Duke of Deception, Earl of Greed, Lord Conquest, Paula Von Gunther, Queen Desira, the Invisible Plane, the Magic Lasso, the Purple Healing Ray, the clay origin.
[B]2030[/B]: Cheetah (Priscilla Rich), Dr. Psycho, Fausta Grables, Zara
[B]2040[/B]: Giganta, Queen Clea, Evilless, Hypnota,
[B]2042[/B]: Blue Snowman,
[B]2044[/B]: Villainy Inc, Minister Blizzard[/QUOTE]
So I've become a bit obsessed and decided to go into other comic characters also. Really puts into perspective how much DC in particular is gonna get by this, the worst for Marvel is Captain America (sorry not sorry to Namor fans)
[B]2034[/B] - Superman, Lois Lane, Krpyton, The Addams family
[B]2035[/B] - Batman, Jim Gordon, Namor, the original Human Torch, Metropolis, Batmobile, Jor and Lara-El
[B]2036[/B] - Captain America, Robin (Dick Grayson), Bucky Barnes, Jimmy Olsen (radio show), Perry White (radio show), The Spirit, Joker, Lex Luthor, Captain Marvel, Catwoman (as "the Cat"), Green Lantern (Alan Scott), Flash (Jay Garrick), Doctor Fate, Hugo Strange, Hawkman and Hawkgirl, Justice Society, Gotham, Daily Planet
[B]2037[/B] - Aquaman, Archie Andrews, Jughead, Betty Cooper, Green Arrow, Penguin
[B]2038[/B] - Mary Marvel, Captain Marvel Jr, Two-Face
[B]2039[/B] - Alfred, Kryptonite, Batcave
[B]2040[/B] - Mister Mxyzptlk
[B]2041[/B] - Superboy, Black Adam
[B]2043[/B] - Scrooge McDuck, Black Canary
[B]2044[/B] - Riddler
