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[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6202421]She had as much ease as she had difficulty.[/QUOTE]
She didn't have any ease. She lost and needed to be saved. And she lost to a clone that wasn't as strong as the real one. And needed saving from a character that she is supposed to be stronger than. Although i guess, we can give it a pass. Since this is from the arc where she was getting weaker. As her body was starting to fall apart and died from a curse that turned her back to clay.
[QUOTE=Rightoya;6202475]That can not be true if she lost, and Wonder Woman losing against a Sinestro on earth who barely does anything impressive, is 1 of the many fights for the trash bin.[/QUOTE]
It can. She broke through his cage with ease. Being on Earth or space wouldnt make a difference. And this was also part of an overall arc of her losing her powers and being deceived by Heracles.
Hmm, that's the Byrne run from what I recall since that is his art. Found it a bit amusing when in 2017, IIRC, I think that was the only post-Crisis WW that was available in affordable trades at book stores aside from some of Rucka's first run. Perez, Simone, and Jimenez still had even had omnibuses from what I recall.
Can't say I'm a fan of the run from what I've read. Cassie's never really escaped being a Vanessa K.O. imo and outside of Daddy Zeus, "Hippolyta in WW2" has to be my least favorite retcon/change to the backstory in WW history.
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6202562]It can. She broke through his cage with ease. Being on Earth or space wouldnt make a difference. And this was also part of an overall arc of her losing her powers and being deceived by Heracles.[/QUOTE]
There is no such thing as ease if she lost. She was getting weaker. But that sinestro was weaker than the real one. So it's like 50/50. too bad while weakened, she still can''t win against a clone that is weaker than the original.
[QUOTE=Gaius;6202565] Cassie's never really escaped being a Vanessa K.O. imo.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand that point of view. Cassie was a tomboy prone that wanted to get in on the action. Not much in common with Vanessa aside from their moms.
They don't act the same way and they don't talk the same way.
I wish Themysicira looked like this:
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/faXoI6M_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/UetKYJx_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/N4ZDOG7_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium[/IMG]
To me their architecture should show us a different path our evolution could've taken.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/IiwY9Qe_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/MPAOrP9_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/FOYqiyE_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium[/IMG]
This was such a lame story...
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It's so dumb, it's funny.
Yep. Always hated it when writers, and a good chunks of fans, overthink the clay origin as being "she's still made from clay".
That it involves the lamest Bat-villain who somehow clawed his way up to B-list is just icing on the cake.
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6205256]This was such a lame story...
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YHy3ON_7fDs/VnfnN9zUhoI/AAAAAAAAEyY/pGvEVqIDt9k/s0-Ic42/RCO013.jpg[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-o-5IrAwX41k/VnfnN6dGIeI/AAAAAAAAEyY/3nnqIBzIxsM/s0-Ic42/RCO014.jpg[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-s_n2chYHAvU/VnfnPa8Ys6I/AAAAAAAAEyY/iLeuD__9La4/s0-Ic42/RCO021.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Not to mention the mistreatment Donna receives from Diana. Vaughan is going to be a well-known writer but I hope he won't go near WW again.
[QUOTE=Sebastianne;6205512]Not to mention the mistreatment Donna receives from Diana. Vaughan is going to be a well-known writer but I hope he won't go near WW again.[/QUOTE]
Donna being a part of the story was the only slight positive and even then yeah like you said...Diana going off on her was...
The Star Wars movie that Patty Jenkins was gonna direct has been removed from the schedule. I'm guessing this means it was cancelled.
Not sure if this makes it more likely that WW3 will happen in the next few years, or not
Honestly wouldn't mind if some version of Earth 2 is back post DCOIE, they just have only Wonder Woman exists from the trinity, so no Superman or Batman. Would let her be above most.
uh... what is the most "up to date" origin for Diana? This clayface sequence has thrown me for a loop.
[QUOTE=Hypestyle;6206359]uh... what is the most "up to date" origin for Diana? This clayface sequence has thrown me for a loop.[/QUOTE]
They don't talk about her birth nowadays so its up in the air
Yeah, I feel like her origin is dependent on who is writing her and what take they prefer... I think Cloonrad seem to be erring with Zeus as her father, but only in how they color some of the interactions. I don't think anything has been explicitly stated since Zeus reentered the book, though, again, I got a vibe from Hippolyta and Zeus' interaction in the oneshot. Schrodinger's origin, I guess.
I really hope NYCC brings some announcements of new WW books! C'mon books for Nubia, Artemis, Yara, Donna, and Cassie!
[QUOTE=Shimbo;6206475]Yeah, I feel like her origin is dependent on who is writing her and what take they prefer... I think Cloonrad seem to be erring with Zeus as her father, [/QUOTE]
Nope in Wonder Woman 787 the villain makes an explicit threat mention about Diana being molded from clay.
[QUOTE=Hypestyle;6206359]uh... what is the most "up to date" origin for Diana? This clayface sequence has thrown me for a loop.[/QUOTE]
The current team has alluded to both the clay and Zeus origins but for the most part, it's not directly talked about. There was a recent one-shot where Hippolyta was in Olympus and her relationship with Zeus is never brought up.
That Clayface story is from like 20 years ago.
[QUOTE=Alpha;6206488]Nope in Wonder Woman 787 the villain makes an explicit threat mention about Diana being molded from clay.[/QUOTE]
You're right about that. Honestly, I doubt DC editorial even knows haha. Or if they do, it's in conflict with what their writers prefer, so they just don't mention it. It'd be nice to have an arc where this is finally repudiated and we can have our subversive feminist utopian matriarchal origin back! Zeus can stay Cassie's grand daddy and need not be a relevant fixture. Hera does the job of antagonist better than him anyway, even if I'm partial to Historia's Hera.
I agree with everything you wrote aside from saying that Zeus
can be Cassie's dad. She should go back to her original background of being an ambitious normal girl that gained powers from artifacts she was trusted with
[QUOTE=Alpha;6206596]I agree with everything you wrote aside from saying that Zeus
can be Cassie's dad. She should go back to her original background of being an ambitious normal girl that gained powers from artifacts she was trusted with[/QUOTE]
I, too, hate the Zues origin. I would prefer the Wonder Women's origins not really give much significance to men. That isn't to say they can't have loving male figures in their creation, but I don't want their power to have anything to do with a man.
Diana being born of clay and Poly's love is all I need. Same with Cassie having the heart of an Amazon of not the blood of one.
With Cassie I do encourage her having a good relationship with her father, and a complex relationship with he mother, but she shouldn't have a special birth or lineage.
[QUOTE=Alpha;6206661]With Cassie I do encourage her having a good relationship with her father, and a complex relationship with he mother, but she shouldn't have a special birth or lineage.[/QUOTE]
That's perfectly fine. She can also have a male best friend, brother, whatever. I just want what makes them heroes to be from within themselves or other women.
No male patron gods or anything. Let the Wonderverse be a celebration of women, you know? I'm not saying get rid of Steve, but keep Zues out of what makes Di and Cassie special, you know?
I like Cassie being an offspring of Zeus and the general way it was handled. Could add more drama. A child of Zeus, sibling of Hercules & Ares unknowingly being Dianas #1 fan and becoming an honorary Amazon really brings things fully circle.
Just because Cassie gets her powers because of her lineage, it isnt what makes her special. Dianas influence is what makes her special.
Personally, I like Ares being Cassie's dad.
[QUOTE=masterwitcher88;6206766]Personally, I like Ares being Cassie's dad.[/QUOTE]
I'm ambivalent to Cassie's actual parentage but I did enjoy their interactions/relationship.
Then vs.
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GHe0b43AWw0/Vnfq3d1c5DI/AAAAAAAAFtU/txOWGkrcVVI/s0-Ic42/RCO014.jpg[/img]
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[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BWthdG79cjw/Vnfq4nc_AvI/AAAAAAAAFtU/viaKKqpAUM0/s0-Ic42/RCO018.jpg[/img]
vs. Now
[img]https://i.ibb.co/MPj5rLX/Wonder-Woman-791-002.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.ibb.co/fDdtvF6/Wonder-Woman-791-003.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.ibb.co/M7j4Lyq/Wonder-Woman-791-004.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/1YXUyQp.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/ESHfUGq.jpg[/img]
[url]https://www.dc.com/blog/2022/09/22/knight-has-fallen-batmans-six-greatest-defeats[/url]
[QUOTE=Sebastianne;6206825][img]https://i.imgur.com/1YXUyQp.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/ESHfUGq.jpg[/img]
[url]https://www.dc.com/blog/2022/09/22/knight-has-fallen-batmans-six-greatest-defeats[/url][/QUOTE]
lol, alright. Fess up, which one of us here for works for DC comics media-team?
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6206705]I like Cassie being an offspring of Zeus and the general way it was handled. Could add more drama. A child of Zeus, sibling of Hercules & Ares unknowingly being Dianas #1 fan and becoming an honorary Amazon really brings things fully circle.
Just because Cassie gets her powers because of her lineage, it isnt what makes her special. Dianas influence is what makes her special.[/QUOTE]
I mean, that's not how it works tho. That's why when you see any description of who she is they say "daughter of Zeus"
But more importantly, thematic cohesion is something I love in the Wonderverse. Diana has such profound themes. While Donna represents a version of Diana whose childhood was full of angat and insecurity, Cassue represents how a normal young gurl could become extraordinary in the world that Diana is creating through her efforts. She's a fangirl, but also a follower, and that's what took her on the road to claim those artifacts as hers and suddenly being totally powerful.
If Cassie has a special birth or lineage then it defeats the purpose of her unique place in this universe. She would ve extraordinary and powerful even if Diana had never become a figure of change in the world
[QUOTE=Alpha;6206908]I mean, that's not how it works tho. That's why when you see any description of who she is they say "daughter of Zeus"
But more importantly, thematic cohesion is something I love in the Wonderverse. Diana has such profound themes. While Donna represents a version of Diana whose childhood was full of angat and insecurity, Cassue represents how a normal young gurl could become extraordinary in the world that Diana is creating through her efforts. She's a fangirl, but also a follower, and that's what took her on the road to claim those artifacts as hers and suddenly being totally powerful.
If Cassie has a special birth or lineage then it defeats the purpose of her unique place in this universe. She would ve extraordinary and powerful even if Diana had never become a figure of change in the world[/QUOTE]
Writers, esp those who write WW are going to use the splashiest titles/phrases there are and daughter of zeus is a splashy title. Doesn't mean that it takes away from Dianas influence and tutelage making her more special.
Sure if she was just a normal every day girl that'd be cool, but depending on which Donna version you go with, she to was that normal every day baby who was saved and granted gifts. Cassie jumping into the fight before she knew of her special birth, before she was initially gifted powers by Zeus is already special enough and doesnt take away from how she joined the superhero game.
Donna was never a normal girl. She was raised on Paradise Island. There's nothing normal about that.
And thematically Donna doesn't represent a mortal girl influenced by Diana to reach limits nobody else would attempt before her. That's Cassie.
What Donna represents is a version of Diana that lacked love when she was growing up. Someone full of insecurities that has to learn to overcome them
[QUOTE=Alpha;6207026]Donna was never a normal girl. She was raised on Paradise Island. There's nothing normal about that.
And thematically Donna doesn't represent a mortal girl influenced by Diana to reach limits nobody else would attempt before her. That's Cassie.
What Donna represents is a version of Diana that lacked love when she was growing up. Someone full of insecurities that has to learn to overcome them[/QUOTE]
Not the original version of Donna. Her life as Hippolyta's daughter and Diana's sister, her family of Titans. She had a life of love and family...
[QUOTE=wonder39;6207037]Not the original version of Donna. Her life as Hippolyta's daughter and Diana's sister, her family of Titans. She had a life of love and family...[/QUOTE]
Yes it's true, the original Wonder Girl stories had her being treated in kind. But she was already full of many insecurities like being very envious of Wonder Woman and feeling lesser to her specially when she pines for the older men that like Wonder Woman. All that would continue for decades on, and the best versions of her history explore this idea of those insecurities coming from a deep and problematic childhood
[QUOTE=Robanker;6206667]That's perfectly fine. She can also have a male best friend, brother, whatever. I just want what makes them heroes to be from within themselves or other women.
No male patron gods or anything. Let the Wonderverse be a celebration of women, you know? I'm not saying get rid of Steve, but keep Zues out of what makes Di and Cassie special, you know?[/QUOTE]
Completely agree, though I will say I was alright with Hermes as one of her patrons in Perez’s origin. Maybe because Perez’s Hermes always read as kinda fruity to me…
It could just as easily be Nike but I could see Hermes’ patronage being a nod to her gay male following as long as he’s not written as masc/straight.
[QUOTE=bardkeep;6207114]Completely agree, though I will say I was alright with Hermes as one of her patrons in Perez’s origin. Maybe because Perez’s Hermes always read as kinda fruity to me…
It could just as easily be Nike but I could see Hermes’ patronage being a nod to her gay male following as long as he’s not written as masc/straight.[/QUOTE]
Now that you mentioned it, Siggy reminds of me of Perez's Hermie a lot. Steve should've dated him instead of Etta :p
[Img]https://img.com-x.life/comix/4654/77668/1604258102_0.18543500.jpg[/img]
Wonder Woman showed up the Outlaws webtoon today.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/qV8Nyg6.png[/IMG]
So, I was browsing around [URL="www.amazonarchives.com"]Amazon Archives[/URL]...just looking up stuff. And I've decided I never want Joshua Williamson to ever write Wonder Woman again.
I was kind of ambivalent to him before, but yeah, he's on my WW black list now. [SIZE=1]We all have one.[/SIZE]
Why do the worst WW writers so often end up DC's golden boys?