Wonder Woman - General Discussion

[QUOTE=Shadowcat;5215522]Honestly they need a higher profile creative team on this book, and structure an event focused on her. And I’m not talking about the Death Metal thing, which was just a sequel to a Batman event. Use her villains against other heroes, to make them better known to the wider DCU. Maybe a fight against some of Superman’s supernatural villains.[/QUOTE]

I think the double-edged sword of a big name creative team is that may attract more interest but I guess I just don't get the sense many of the possible big names at DC seem to have any grasp of the character outside of the "haughty warrior woman".

[QUOTE=Gaius;5215538]I think the double-edged sword of a big name creative team is that may attract more interest but I guess I just don't get the sense many of the possible big names at DC seem to have any grasp of the character outside of the "haughty warrior woman".[/QUOTE]

With her success on Captain Marvel, and the film, plus doing the Black Label book, Kelly Sue would be perfect on this book. I’d love if DC could scoop up Carmen Carnero, Silva, or Larraz for this book. I’d really like Carmen be given a chance. Her CM is absolutely amazing to me.

Maybe tap Jimenez to co-write until the new writer had a real grasp on who she is.

[QUOTE=Shadowcat;5215637]With her success on Captain Marvel, and the film, plus doing the Black Label book, Kelly Sue would be perfect on this book. I’d love if DC could scoop up Carmen Carnero, Silva, or Larraz for this book. I’d really like Carmen be given a chance. Her CM is absolutely amazing to me.[/QUOTE]
Haven’t read any of DeConnick’s works but have heard good things about Aquaman and interviews she and Jimenez have given for [I]Historia[/I] do make me interested in what she’d do with Diana.

Kind of a longshot but given she’s working with DC again in some capacity, I’d be interested in Renae DeLiz on the book.

[QUOTE=PopQuezy;5209828]A bad story in a lackluster run doesn't prove Maxwell Lord is a bad villain. If anything, I'd argue Tamaki's first two issues, which were also her strongest, show the dynamic Diana and Max should have with each other. His very presence should push Diana to the limits of her compassion and forgiveness, which I do think the first 2 issues did well.

I would love a story that truly showed Lord's dynamic with Diana, Steve and Etta. Just because this story isn't it doesn't mean that story doesn't exist.[/QUOTE]

Max Lord was a fantastic villain Pre-Flashpoint. Unfortunately he got Doomsday'd during the New 52 debacle and is just around. It is not likely he will reach the level of epic-ness from the COUNTDOWN reveal through the end of OMAC PROJECT. The best use I have seen since that time was the crossover between the League and the Suicide Squad

[QUOTE=Gaius;5215642]Haven’t read any of DeConnick’s works but have heard good things about Aquaman and interviews she and Jimenez have given for [I]Historia[/I] do make me interested in what she’d do with Diana.

Kind of a longshot but given she’s working with DC again in some capacity, I’d be interested in Renae DeLiz on the book.[/QUOTE]

Ooh. I didn’t even think about DeLiz.

[QUOTE=PopQuezy;5206251]Does anyone think the Netflix release of Blood of Zeus or the success of Harley Quinn Animated Series has at least started discussions of a Wonder Woma Animated Series? Obviously, I don't ask anyone to have a serious answer to that, but I did wonder if you think these releases show WB that there could be a substantial market for a WWAS.

If so, I would actually love a season one (of say 12-15 commercial-free 30-minute episodes) based on Rucka's Year One. I think some changes I would make is Dr. Barbara Ann works at the Smithsonian with Etta who is a lawyer. Steve could still be a soldier at Argus (with Sasha as his boss), and Diana gets a position at the Smithsonian, as well.

I would also have it be the real Ares as her big bad, but Dr. Poison, Paula (as the leader of Team Sear), Max Lord (as the non-META head of a weapons development and manufacturing company), Duke Deception (with Reality Warping powers) and Giganta as the rogues for her first season. (Dr. Psycho,Dr. Cyber, Circe and their travels to the cursed land of Urzkataga) could be added to her rogues for season 2.

With the need for content for HBO Max, the long delay of Wonder Woman1984, the enthusiastic fan reaction to Yara that shows that the Wonder mythos has a large fanbase starving for content, and the fact that animation has always been a strong suit for DC, I'm hoping discussions of a WWAS with Patty Jenkins as a producer/executive (and Gal Gadot, too, but not required) are in serious considerations right now.[/QUOTE]

Personally, I think if they go for an animated series, it would be better for them to use the clay origin if only to differentiate themselves from Blood of Zeus and that percy Jackson series that's in the works.

I hope they make an animated movie out of the Hiketeia and League of One.

[QUOTE=Agent Z;5216003]Personally, I think if they go for an animated series, it would be better for them to use the clay origin if only to differentiate themselves from Blood of Zeus and that percy Jackson series that's in the works.

I hope they make an animated movie out of the Hiketeia and League of One.[/QUOTE]

I imagine if they if ever make another animated movie it'd have the rest of the League in it since that'll probably make it sell better, so I could see something like [I]A League of One[/I].

I think [I]War of the Gods[/I] could make a good a basis for a film, sort of like [I]Under of the Red Hood[/I] where they take an important but not very good story and the streamlining adaptation process could get something good out of it.

[QUOTE=Agent Z;5216003]Personally, I think if they go for an animated series, it would be better for them to use the clay origin if only to differentiate themselves from Blood of Zeus and that percy Jackson series that's in the works.

I hope they make an animated movie out of the Hiketeia and League of One.[/QUOTE]

For an animated series, if they go with a clay origin a lot of people who watch dceu movies are going to be so confused. saying "hold up I thought she was Zeus's daughter?!??"

[QUOTE=Mysterious;5216069]For an animated series, if they go with a clay origin a lot of people who watch dceu movies are going to be so confused. saying "hold up I thought she was Zeus's daughter?!??"[/QUOTE]

Would it particularly relevant to every episode? Not like B:TAS or S:TAS showed the Waynes getting shot or Krypton exploding every episode.

[QUOTE=Mysterious;5216069]For an animated series, if they go with a clay origin a lot of people who watch dceu movies are going to be so confused. saying "hold up I thought she was Zeus's daughter?!??"[/QUOTE]

I don't think people would expect them to be in the same continuity.

Also curious - for an animated series, are people thinking a series for adults or a series for kids? Media can absolutely be made to target kids that adults also like (see many Disney and Pixar movies), but I'm just curious as the the mindset here. Also, if for children, then targeting what age - 4-6 year olds or 8-10 year olds or what?

[QUOTE=Mysterious;5216069]For an animated series, if they go with a clay origin a lot of people who watch dceu movies are going to be so confused. saying "hold up I thought she was Zeus's daughter?!??"[/QUOTE]

Adaptations have deviated from each other before. They'll just see it as another version and if the show fails the difference itself won't be the reason.

I just want an animated series like Batman's or Superman's. One that can be enjoyed by kids but with stories sophisticated enough for adults.

[QUOTE=Nyssane;5216247]I just want an animated series like Batman's or Superman's. One that can be enjoyed by kids but with stories sophisticated enough for adults.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I see it being similar to X-Men TAS or Batman TAS. Stories children can enjoy but with themes that are universal, regardless of age. I would love Patty Jenkins to somehow be involved because I do greatly appreciate and agree with her interpretation of Wonder Woman. I would love it if 2021 could at least announce the development of such a project. The world truly loves Wonder Woman, as evidenced in 2017, and I think now would be a great time to not only get people to love Diana but her world, as well.

[QUOTE=Tzigone;5216118]I don't think people would expect them to be in the same continuity.

Also curious - for an animated series, are people thinking a series for adults or a series for kids? Media can absolutely be made to target kids that adults also like (see many Disney and Pixar movies), but I'm just curious as the the mindset here. Also, if for children, then targeting what age - 4-6 year olds or 8-10 year olds or what?[/QUOTE]

Whatever the age range was for shows B:TAS or GL:TAS.

I'd just hope a show would distill a lot of good WW runs like B:TAS or [I]Spectacular Spider-Man[/I] did.

I just read Spirit of Truth for the first time, and oh my, I am [B]in love[/B] with the art. I think I might read it again tomorrow! There were so many pages where I really wanted it on my wall.

The art is the only good thing about Spirit of Truth.

DC Cancels Wonder Woman 1984 Variants, Rebrands Them as 80th Anniversary Covers for 2021

[url]https://www.cbr.com/dc-cancels-wonder-woman-1984-variants-80th-anniversary-cover-2021/[/url]

I was thinking how great it would be if we could get a Villainy Inc. vs. Wonder Woman graphic novel for the 80th Anniversary. I don't know who I would want to write it, but I'm thinking Renea de Liz or Marguerite Bennett. I would love for Nicola Scott, Liam Sharpe, or Jason Fabok. It could be set in its own universe and have Steve and Etta as supporting cast.

The new editor-in-chief of DC, Marie Javins, apparently grew up a fan reading Wonder Woman and Nubia. Hopefully the means better treatment and more opportunities for WW going forward than under the previous EiCs.

[QUOTE=Gaius;5224803]The new editor-in-chief of DC, Marie Javins, apparently grew up a fan reading Wonder Woman and Nubia. Hopefully the means better treatment and more opportunities for WW going forward than under the previous EiCs.[/QUOTE]

Yes, good for her in general and hopefully it leads to some positive changes. But this in particular is very hopeful for Wonder Woman

[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;5224814]Yes, good for her in general and hopefully it leads to some positive changes. But this in particular is very hopeful for Wonder Woman[/QUOTE]

Yes, especially with WW's 80th next year.

[QUOTE=Gaius;5224803]The new editor-in-chief of DC, Marie Javins, apparently grew up a fan reading Wonder Woman and Nubia. Hopefully the means better treatment and more opportunities for WW going forward than under the previous EiCs.[/QUOTE]
Ohhhhh. I hope so. Especially with some top tier artists and writers.

It would be nice to have an editor who actually cared about Wonder Woman for once

We need an editor like Karen Berger on her title again.

I almost always buy the collected versions of new WW stories (the exceptions being Finch and Robinson), but I have to say, after today's issue I'm definitely not going to be getting Tamaki's run in even TPB form.

I've sat through some bad stuff in WW's history but, wow. Tamaki is as bad as GWW when it comes to displaying a powerhouse hero and even more boring as a story teller. Jeez...

[QUOTE=Shadowcat;5224975]Ohhhhh. I hope so. Especially with some top tier artists and writers.[/QUOTE]

A consistent art team would be nice but not really sure on really who for top tier writers. not many of the big names currently at DC I think I'd be interested in seeing on WW.

Guess we'll just have to wait until March when Future State wrap ups and presumably Tamaki's Max Lord story will be done.

Since Diana is the movie character, does anyone think that if Nubia and/or Yara are successful in their upcoming ventures that they could get an HBO Max series? Since Diana will be on her last film in her trilogy, Patty Jenkins could reserve whatever villains she wants for her film, but then the rest of the rogue gallery could go to HBO Max - including Dr. Poison as I would hate to see a series where she is not included. The Wonder Woman world is so full and rich - literally 80 years of history - that they could easily repurpose old characters and storylines for a Max series.

P.S. this would in no way affect a Diana led Wonder Woman Animated Series as I'm sure WB/DC would not see that as competition for the Diana led films.

[QUOTE=PopQuezy;5225886]Since Diana is the movie character, does anyone think that if Nubia and/or Yara are successful in their upcoming ventures that they could get an HBO Max series? [/QUOTE]

I highly doubt it.

[QUOTE=PopQuezy;5225886]Since Diana is the movie character, does anyone think that if Nubia and/or Yara are successful in their upcoming ventures that they could get an HBO Max series? Since Diana will be on her last film in her trilogy, Patty Jenkins could reserve whatever villains she wants for her film, but then the rest of the rogue gallery could go to HBO Max - including Dr. Poison as I would hate to see a series where she is not included. The Wonder Woman world is so full and rich - literally 80 years of history - that they could easily repurpose old characters and storylines for a Max series.

P.S. this would in no way affect a Diana led Wonder Woman Animated Series as I'm sure WB/DC would not see that as competition for the Diana led films.[/QUOTE]
There own solo stuff? No, but I wouldn't be surprised if say Nubia shows up in one of the pre-existing CW shows.

[QUOTE=Gaius;5225910]There own solo stuff? No, but I wouldn't be surprised if say Nubia shows up in one of the pre-existing CW shows.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]I highly doubt it.[/QUOTE]

I guess I'm being overly optimistic. But I guess my reasoning is if WB/DC wants to keep Wonder Woman a profitable and valuable IP for them, they need to do something to keep it in the public eye even when a movie is not being released. A HBO Max series just seems like a good way to do that, and I would rather a solo show than an Amazons show - unless it focused on Nubia, Yara, and Artemis.

[QUOTE=PopQuezy;5226035]I guess I'm being overly optimistic. But I guess my reasoning is if WB/DC wants to keep Wonder Woman a profitable and valuable IP for them, they need to do something to keep it in the public eye even when a movie is not being released. A HBO Max series just seems like a good way to do that, and I would rather a solo show than an Amazons show - unless it focused on Nubia, Yara, and Artemis.[/QUOTE]

There’s at least stuff to mine for an Amazon show, Yara at the moment is a complete blank slate.

[QUOTE=Shadowcat;5225162]We need an editor like Karen Berger on her title again.[/QUOTE]

This.

More than anything, this!

[URL="https://13thdimension.com/13-comics-pros-pick-the-greatest-wonder-woman-stories-ever/"]Interesting article from a few years ago on various artist and writers naming their favorite WW stories. [/URL]

Some names and their picks:

Greg Rucka - [I]Gods and Mortals [/I]
Trina Robbins - [I]True Amazon[/I]
Gail Simone - #170 “She’s a Wonder”
Cliff Chiang - [I]True Amazon[/I]
Liam Sharp - [I]Year One[/I]
Christie Marston - [I]The Once and Future Story[/I] and the original Marston stories. :p

[QUOTE=Gaius;5233184][URL="https://13thdimension.com/13-comics-pros-pick-the-greatest-wonder-woman-stories-ever/"]Interesting article from a few years ago on various artist and writers naming their favorite WW stories. [/URL]

Some names and their picks:

Greg Rucka - [I]Gods and Mortals [/I]
Trina Robbins - [I]True Amazon[/I]
Gail Simone - #170 “She’s a Wonder”
Cliff Chiang - [I]True Amazon[/I]
Liam Sharp - [I]Year One[/I]
Christie Marston - [I]The Once and Future Story[/I] and the original Marston stories. :p[/QUOTE]

That's super interesting, thanks for sharing!

I feel like I need to give True Amazon another go. I remember being really infuriated by it at the time because it felt like it played into the trope that Diana can only be interesting if she's depicted as "not perfect" (which is usually an excuse for a writer to simply avoid finding the drama and story in her existing character complexity). Even writing that I feel myself being overly harsh - I should probably try it again. Is anyone else a fan of it here that can talk me round to its magic? I'm already sold on the art, but I think I'm missing something in the story to appreciate.

So Max Lord is out of the picture, at least for now. Unfortunately, now we have to deal with his lame ass daughter :p

[I]The Dark Multiverse: War of the Gods[/I] special was interesting. Feels a bit closer to the current JLD book, Zatanna gets a rather semi-prominent showing, than the Perez stuff at the time of the actual WoG event but decent-ish enough Elseworld.

Also like the original event maybe tried to do to much even for an over-sized issue.

[QUOTE=Psy-lock;5246486]So Max Lord is out of the picture, at least for now. Unfortunately, now we have to deal with his lame ass daughter :p[/QUOTE]

I highly doubt he's out of the picture. This entire run has been dedicated to him and even though it "seems" he's gone, I don't see us being that lucky.

But yeah, Liar Liar is trash. Hope we never see her again.

[QUOTE=Gaius;5255657][I]The Dark Multiverse: War of the Gods[/I] special was interesting. Feels a bit closer to the current JLD book, Zatanna gets a rather semi-prominent showing than the Perez stuff at the time of the actual WoG event but decent-ish enough Elseworld.

Also like the original event maybe tried to do to much even for an over-sized issue.[/QUOTE]

It was decent, but definitely tried to do too much for its size.

One thing that weirded me out was seeing that post-Crisis design for Phobos again. That design is just so god awful bad. Which is weird because Deimos and Eris looked rad back then.

[QUOTE=Nyssane;5255725]I highly doubt he's out of the picture. This entire run has been dedicated to him and even though it "seems" he's gone, I don't see us being that lucky.

But yeah, Liar Liar is trash. Hope we never see her again.



It was decent, but definitely tried to do too much for its size.

One thing that weirded me out was seeing that post-Crisis design for Phobos again. That design is just so god awful bad. Which is weird because Deimos and Eris looked rad back then.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Deimos is the real weak link of Ares’ kids designs.

Though I liked he got some use rather than be an all Hecate show.

I think the core premise for the WW comic has been all wrong, since the Silver Age. While Batman, Superman, Flash and Green Lantern seem perfectly iconic in their elements, Wonder Woman feels entirely irrelevant ..in hers. The presence of the U.S. military, and the symbolism of big, important cities don't feel organic to Wonder Woman, the way Gotham does to Batman.

Truth is NOT what Wonder Woman was intended to embody, for the WW comic, and I think that's important to say, because we keep getting hung up, on her representing truth. She never should have been a goddess of truth. I laughed, when John Byrne made her so.

Truth, as creator Marston well understood, ..is the [B]weapon[/B] Diana uses to champion the freedom of others, and freedom is what [I]Wonder Woman[/I] is really about. Maxwell Lord isn't an affront to truth, for truth's sake, but manipulates the truth to enslave others to his power, ..and that is why he's a perfect counter to Wonder Woman. I wouldn't make him her arch-anything, but, he's in the right ballpark - an a-lister in her rogues gallery.

By comparison, changing Steve and Diana's relationship into something more spontaneous, with the capacity to challenge them, in some way that feels natural to us, ..seems impossible. I wasn't crazy about the story or that stupid Liar-Liar, ..but, Max and Diana were more intriguing in a few panels, than Steve and Diana have been, since World War II, ..and he's a super-villain. Something worked, here.

Things keep popping up, coming out of World War II, that make you want to settle Steve Trevor in a sweet, Rockwellian town, somewhere, with a family that loves him, ..while the rest of us slip away in the I-Jet, with Etta, Desira and some blue dude from another dimension. This last story, with Max, is one of those things.