Wonder Woman - General Discussion

I really don't care who the next writer is. All I want is someone who can handle a medium sized cast without shortchanging Diana, put the Amazons back in the background again, and build up her supporting cast. And I mean Steve, Candy, Donna, Cassie, and Vanessa. Let the Amazons have an embassy back and have Vanessa and Candy work there, with a small group of Amazons. Let Steve be her contact with the U.S. government. And let Donna be her closest confidant.
I would want the new writer to be able to put their stamp on her legacy by creating a new villain, if they want. But I would rather they use the wealth of villainy that her rogues bring. Bring back Queen Clea. Make something out of Villainy Inc. Use Dr. Cyber creatively. Bring on the Queen of Fables. I wouldn't mind seeing the First Born again (with some updating). Have Devastation live up to her initial promise. Stop using her villains like jokes. I hate seeing her defeat them within two panels at the start of a storyline as a set up to something bigger.

[QUOTE=Alphaxman;6618756]I really don't care who the next writer is. All I want is someone who can handle a medium sized cast without shortchanging Diana, put the Amazons back in the background again, and build up her supporting cast. And I mean Steve, Candy, Donna, Cassie, and Vanessa. Let the Amazons have an embassy back and have Vanessa and Candy work there, with a small group of Amazons. Let Steve be her contact with the U.S. government. And let Donna be her closest confidant.
I would want the new writer to be able to put their stamp on her legacy by creating a new villain, if they want. But I would rather they use the wealth of villainy that her rogues bring. Bring back Queen Clea. Make something out of Villainy Inc. Use Dr. Cyber creatively. Bring on the Queen of Fables. I wouldn't mind seeing the First Born again (with some updating). Have Devastation live up to her initial promise. Stop using her villains like jokes. I hate seeing her defeat them within two panels at the start of a storyline as a set up to something bigger.[/QUOTE]

The Amazons have been in the background for most of her post crisis history, if not further back. The last run to focus heavily on them was Jiminez.

[QUOTE=bardkeep;6618654]Definitely want to take this with a grain of salt because it's not exactly a reputable source (Bleeding Cool, reporting NYCC gossip) but it looks like there's a rumor about DC starting their own spin on the "Ultimate Universe": [url]https://bleedingcool.com/comics/nycc-bar-gossip-dc-ultimate-universe-scott-snyder/[/url]

Got me thinking - if they were going to start an alternate DCU with more creator control and establish a new canon from the ground up, which writer(s) would you like to see in charge of WW?

My picks:

- Kelly Sue DeConnick: Honestly, I'd be thrilled if they just put Historia in the new universe as the canon lore and built everything out from there.

- Phil Jimenez: An obvious choice for a reason - he's sort of like the Mark Waid of WW, though his approach is much more academic. I think he'd take an interesting mix of elements from Pre- and Post-Crisis, lean into the queerness of her world (in the political sense that he often uses it, not just the sexual orientation sense), and make something cool and unique that felt distinct from main continuity but still felt familiar.

- Steve Orlando: Tbh I think he'd take a very similar approach to Phil Jimenez but he's a much more realistic choice.

- Gail Simone: I actually think she's a very likely contender because of the 3 working writers most closely associated with Diana (her, Rucka, Jimenez), she's the only one I could definitely see writing a new DC ongoing or maxi-series. I think she'd very much go to the Perez roots rather than doing something brand new like Jimenez or Orlando would, but she'd put a fun spin on things as she always does and I think she'd do an amazing job setting up a strong supporting cast and foundation.[/QUOTE]

I'd only trust Rucka, Jimenez & Orlando, or possibly KSD. I already know I'd dislike Gail's take, because I don't get her sense of humor or her voice for Diana.

Now that I think about it, if the new universe actually does happen and Scott Snyder is spearheading it, the most likely outcome is that he's gonna do WW. He really digs her and he's wanted to do a run on her book for ages.

I'd be nervous if he took her on because he kinda seems like he digs the n52 flavor of her world (though his take on Diana herself has always been fine), but he hasn't said all that much on the matter and if he's the architect of the new universe she definitely won't be overlooked.

If Snyder's involved, he's probably gonna double down on her being around since the WWII and daddy Zeus.

[QUOTE=bardkeep;6618953]Now that I think about it, if the new universe actually does happen and Scott Snyder is spearheading it, the most likely outcome is that he's gonna do WW. He really digs her and he's wanted to do a run on her book for ages.

I'd be nervous if he took her on because he kinda seems like he digs the n52 flavor of her world (though his take on Diana herself has always been fine), but he hasn't said all that much on the matter and if he's the architect of the new universe she definitely won't be overlooked.[/QUOTE]

It would definitely be either Superman or Wonder Woman. Apparently Snyder talked to someone about his plans and from [URL="https://reddit.com/r/DCcomics/s/3sntKeXwSP"]what that person shared on Reddit[/URL], it was Superman that Snyder seemed intent on writing. He may do both or that person may be lying/wrong however, but I’m leaning towards Supes both because it synergizes with Gunn kicking off his cinematic universe with Superman, and because his work towards the end of his DC tenure seemed to point in that direction.

I don't think I've ever liked anything I've read by Scott Snyder. So I don't want him for either WW or Superman, but I guess I'd prefer the latter if I have to pick since Clark is more likely to get good stuff elsewhere. Too bad it wouldn't be Morrison picking up where their Actions Comics run left off

Thompson would be good for some fresh blood, but I would always be open to Jimenez or Simone coming back.

[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6619339]I don't think I've ever liked anything I've read by Scott Snyder. So I don't want him for either WW or Superman, but I guess I'd prefer the latter if I have to pick since Clark is more likely to get good stuff elsewhere. Too bad it wouldn't be Morrison picking up where their Actions Comics run left off

Thompson would be good for some fresh blood, but I would always be open to Jimenez or Simone coming back.[/QUOTE]

Same for me. Though I somewhat prefer Jiminez to Simone.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6618734]Hmm, Simone would be interesting. Being able to a WW book that didn't have to deal with the status quo left by bad events. I enjoyed that Conan crossover she did did for that reason.[/QUOTE]

No, she'll still find a way to fit monkeys or scatological humor in there, just for the sake of being "whacky".

[QUOTE=Agent Z;6619382]Same for me. Though I somewhat prefer Jiminez to Simone.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I would put them in that order too.

[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6619433]No, she'll still find a way to fit monkeys or scatological humor in there, just for the sake of being "whacky".[/QUOTE]

She had one throw away joke about poop in her first run and it only related to the moneys. So this seems like a weird exaggeration

[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6619433]No, she'll still find a way to fit monkeys or scatological humor in there, just for the sake of being "whacky".[/QUOTE]

The apes would be a more than welcome return to Wonder Woman's supporting cast for me.

[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6619339]I don't think I've ever liked anything I've read by Scott Snyder. So I don't want him for either WW or Superman, but I guess I'd prefer the latter if I have to pick since Clark is more likely to get good stuff elsewhere. Too bad it wouldn't be Morrison picking up where their Actions Comics run left off

Thompson would be good for some fresh blood, but I would always be open to Jimenez or Simone coming back.[/QUOTE]

I liked American Vampire and The Wake but the only superhero stuff of his I've read is his JL, which I only read parts of because I found it unreadable. Everything I dislike about mainstream superhero comics in one convenient package. His Batman run gets such wide acclaim that I figured maybe JL was a fluke but maybe not.

[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6619433]No, she'll still find a way to fit monkeys or scatological humor in there, just for the sake of being "whacky".[/QUOTE]

If the gorillas have one million fans, I'm one of them. If the gorillas have one fan, I'm the one. If the gorillas have no fans, that means I am dead.

[QUOTE=bardkeep;6619534]I liked American Vampire and The Wake but the only superhero stuff of his I've read is his JL, which I only read parts of because I found it unreadable. Everything I dislike about mainstream superhero comics in one convenient package. His Batman run gets such wide acclaim that I figured maybe JL was a fluke but maybe not.[/QUOTE]

I should have clarified I meant superhero work, cuz that's all I've read. I too gave up on his JL run, but I don't think his Batman is run is too much better despite the praise it gets. I dropped out after a few trades and it doesn't look like I missed out on much after that.

Going from Morrison to Snyder was a serious downgrade for that franchuse (as it is for most things that aren't Wonder Woman). I hope Snyder stays away from her.

I'm skeptical they'll bring in any past writers. I think it's probably going to be someone who can bring a new voice to the property or hasn't done a WW run.

God anything, but the monkeys. I would rather have Jason than the monkeys :(

[QUOTE=bardkeep;6619534]
If the gorillas have one million fans, I'm one of them. If the gorillas have one fan, I'm the one. If the gorillas have no fans, that means I am dead.[/QUOTE]

LOL! I hate the gorillas but you almost won me over with that poetry.

[QUOTE=bardkeep;6619534]I liked American Vampire and The Wake but the only superhero stuff of his I've read is his JL, which I only read parts of because I found it unreadable. Everything I dislike about mainstream superhero comics in one convenient package. His Batman run gets such wide acclaim that I figured maybe JL was a fluke but maybe not.



If the gorillas have one million fans, I'm one of them. If the gorillas have one fan, I'm the one. If the gorillas have no fans, that means I am dead.[/QUOTE]

I get that if you're writing Wonder Woman you need characters for her to talk to and interact with, beyond Steve and Etta. It's an opportunity to provide levity and to move the story along. Almost every run has at least one, Cloonrad's talking squirrel, Wilson's three mythological beasts, Maggie, Ferdinand, Hoppy, Rebecca, Chiron etc. Every writer invents new supporting characters. However, it's hard for me to fathom living in [B]an apartment[/B] with 5 talking gorillas, breaking stuff and flinging around poop. I'm sorry, but that's a bridge too far. I just couldn't buy it.

Creating new supporting casts unique to ones run has been an ongoing trend since the Mod era where the supporting cast became I-Ching, Cathy Perkins, Tony Petrucci, and the revolving door of private eye romantic interests.

Even before that we had Kanigher adding to the supporting cast with Genro Genie, Birdboy, and Merboy.
Levitz with Novak, Starfield, Macklin, and Baily
Conway with his Mother Juju
Mishkin with Kieth Griggs, Sofia Constantinas, Atalanta, and Glitch
Perez with the Kapatelis family

It will never stop surprising me how crazy large Wonder Womans supporting cast is.

[QUOTE=Fuzzy Mittens;6620299]Creating new supporting casts unique to ones run has been an ongoing trend since the Mod era where the supporting cast became I-Ching, Cathy Perkins, Tony Petrucci, and the revolving door of private eye romantic interests.

Even before that we had Kanigher adding to the supporting cast with Genro Genie, Birdboy, and Merboy.
Levitz with Novak, Starfield, Macklin, and Baily
Conway with his Mother Juju
Mishkin with Kieth Griggs, Sofia Constantinas, Atalanta, and Glitch
Perez with the Kapatelis family

It will never stop surprising me how crazy large Wonder Womans supporting cast is.[/QUOTE]

I've said before there needs to be a moratorium. At least in so much that if a writer needs a police detective make them Idelicato, a publicist Myndi Mayer, a reporter Tawny Young, a chef Ferdinand, and on and on, instead of inventing new ones. DC editorial seemingly doesn't realize Wonder Woman has long term readers that get tired of all the turnover.

That's why I'm fine with the return of Sarge Steel. Familiarity is comforting, even when it comes to adversaries.

[QUOTE=bardkeep;6619534]
If the gorillas have one million fans, I'm one of them. If the gorillas have one fan, I'm the one. If the gorillas have no fans, that means I am dead.[/QUOTE]
Hahs, yeah they were great

[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6620309]I've said before there needs to be a moratorium. At least in so much that if a writer needs a police detective make them Idelicato, a publicist Myndi Mayer, a reporter Tawny Young, a chef Ferdinand, and on and on, instead of inventing new ones. DC editorial seemingly doesn't realize Wonder Woman has long term readers that get tired of all the turnover.
[/quote]
Yeah that makes sense

I have two questions for anyone who'd like to answer:

[I]1- Is there any character from any era of the Wonder Woman comic that you simply did not like (for whatever reason) at first, but warmed up to lately?

2- Is there any character that you liked from the get go, and whom you think should be revisited due to the potential you think they have?[/I]

1-Sigurðr/Siegfried/Siggy- There was something that rubbed me the wrong way about him. I think it was partly the art, which was gorgeous, for sure, and made him look like a typical himbo you see in a gay owned men's underwear online catalog. LOL Nothing wrong with any of that, but I just could not go past it. I know it's shallow, and it reeks of the whole notion of people being so good looking that they are not "taken seriously." So, yeah, I know there was nothing inherently wrong about the character; it was just me not being able to find anything to connect with beyond his obvious good looks. Oddly enough, I have been re-reading his appearances, and have most definitely warmed up to him. A huge part of that is his odd-couple, homoerotic-ish vibe with Steve. I found it strangely endearing and wholesome, if that makes any sense.

2-Definitely Trevor Barnes and Bobby Barnes are # 1 for me, but I also wish they brought back a character that I can't even remember by name: it was a black woman (not an amazon, not a meta, just a normie) who not too long ago was in the book, and if I recall correctly, fought alongside Atlantiades (or maybe was trained by them)...? Anyone remember her? What was her name...???

I believe you are talking about Maggie

[url]https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Maggie_(Prime_Earth)[/url]

I thought Etta Candy was a waste of time until I actually read the Golden Age stories

[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6623188]I have two questions for anyone who'd like to answer:

1- Is there any character from any era of the Wonder Woman comic that you simply did not like (for whatever reason) at first, but warmed up to lately? [/QUOTE]

Zara, Osira and Minister Blizzard.

Well, warmed up to isn't quite accurate but I have felt they could be reworked in modern stories. Zara could be reimagined as an Ifrit, Osira as a sorceress from Ancient Egypt and Minister Blizzard could be an aspect of Jack Frost.

I didn't really hate them but I've become interested in Mala and Euboea being more prominent Amazon characters.

[QUOTE]2- Is there any character that you liked from the get go, and whom you think should be revisited due to the potential you think they have?[/QUOTE]

Akila and Amaya. They're the most unique of the Bana Amazons we've had. I'd reimagine Akila as a scholar whose pursuits include magic.

[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6623188][I]1- Is there any character from any era of the Wonder Woman comic that you simply did not like (for whatever reason) at first, but warmed up to lately?[/QUOTE]
Blue Snowman. I always thought they were a tad too silly to be a WW villain, but their recent appearances warmed me up to them.

[QUOTE]2- Is there any character that you liked from the get go, and whom you think should be revisited due to the potential you think they have?[/I][/QUOTE]

Achilles from Simone's run. He's by far my favorite male character in WW (though Rama and Siggy aren't bad either). On the villain side, definitely Queen Clea: great design, great foil for Diana.

[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6623188]I have two questions for anyone who'd like to answer:

[I]1- Is there any character from any era of the Wonder Woman comic that you simply did not like (for whatever reason) at first, but warmed up to lately? [/I][/quote]

I never [I]dis[/I]liked her, but Hippolyta was never one of my favorites - I really liked the purpose she served and her relationship with Diana, but I didn't think much about her as a character in herself. Then Historia came out and totally changed my tune. A lot of writers do her dirty, but when she's done well I genuinely think she's the best character in mainstream comics - heroic but deeply flawed, hurt, and messy in a way that feels organic. She reminds me of a lot of moms I know in real life, including my own.

I also love that [I]she's[/I] the main character in the lore, not Diana. Diana's the one with unique powers, but it isn't just another situation where everything orbits around an extra special chosen one - her life, powers, and mission are an extension of Hippolyta's story. It's why I love the Historia take where Hippolyta is an ordinary mortal who begins the whole legend through sheer determination.

[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6623188]2- Is there any character that you liked from the get go, and whom you think should be revisited due to the potential you think they have?[/I]

2-Definitely Trevor Barnes and Bobby Barnes are # 1 for me, but I also wish they brought back a character that I can't even remember by name: it was a black woman (not an amazon, not a meta, just a normie) who not too long ago was in the book, and if I recall correctly, fought alongside Atlantiades (or maybe was trained by them)...? Anyone remember her? What was her name...???[/QUOTE]

Agreed on Bobby Barnes and Maggie. And in terms of other recently-introduced characters, I'd love to see the Esquecida other than Yara used more. It's a shame they haven't had a writer who actually knows/cares about indigenous Brazilian folklore - there's limitless potential there and I hate that they keep putting Yara in the Greek myth playground when her father is a Brazilian river god.

Also Ferdinand made such a big impression that people seem to forget how little he's actually been utilized. He should be a core part of the supporting cast IMO, and when/if they make an animated series I hope he's one of the main characters.

[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6623188]I have two questions for anyone who'd like to answer:

[I]1- Is there any character from any era of the Wonder Woman comic that you simply did not like (for whatever reason) at first, but warmed up to lately?

2- Is there any character that you liked from the get go, and whom you think should be revisited due to the potential you think they have?[/I][/QUOTE]

1. Probably Nubia. I didn't dislike her particularly (given she wasn't in much to begin with) but I mainly found (and still do) the secret lost sibling twin trope eye-rolling. But I liked the stuff that came out of Williams minis.

2. Ferdinand. Why no one outside Rucka uses this guy is beyond me.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6623431]2. Ferdinand. Why no one outside Rucka uses this guy is beyond me.[/QUOTE]

G. Willow Wilson used him in her run (not much but he's there)! And the best WW thing she's done is a hilarious Ferdinand story she and Stjepan Sejic did in a summer anthology a few years back.

[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/BaSvuMFpTL4mbrSwFdlkNHI5joeBiYuCboePHGWFb396b7Kh2URim3AA3LMzzNu2LYdUdiJIpXyulPtVC_6kfmKpJ2-Oywvl6AkpAjH7UlTLNbSinp990rMCElhjJsnFpT2HSVpL=s800?rhlupa=MjQuMjI4LjEyMy4xMDA=&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKE1hY2ludG9zaDsgSW50ZWwgTWFjIE9TIFggMTBfMTVfNykgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzExNS4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2[/img]

Side note, I reallllly love how Sejic draws Diana and Ferdinand.

[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6623188]I have two questions for anyone who'd like to answer:

[I]1- Is there any character from any era of the Wonder Woman comic that you simply did not like (for whatever reason) at first, but warmed up to lately?

2- Is there any character that you liked from the get go, and whom you think should be revisited due to the potential you think they have?[/I][/QUOTE]

1 Mostly I didn’t like a new character if I thought another past character could have fulfilled the role, but there was nothing intrinsically wrong with the character past that. So Nemesis, Maggie and others irked me at first, but I’ve come around to them and how they fit in the overall Wonder tapestry. My one qualifier is Jason… never liked him when he showed up and I still don’t like him. ;)

2 So many: Myndi Mayer, Trevor Barnes, Ferdinand, Siggy, Helena Sandsmark, Angle Man (Jimenez version), Achilles Warkiller, Ed Indelicato, Peter Garibaldi, Rachel Keast and others. And those are just the more modern age characters. I think some others like from earlier eras are equally interesting when coming from a Wonder “tapestry” perspective… Updated and new takes on Camille Sly, Mother Juju, Johnny Double, Mike Bailey, Stacey Macklin, Keith Griggs, Andros, Brad Covington, etc.

But this is all just how my brain works… I like Diana to be able to operate in many scenarios and with many themes.

[QUOTE=HestiasHearth;6623188]I have two questions for anyone who'd like to answer:

[I]1- Is there any character from any era of the Wonder Woman comic that you simply did not like (for whatever reason) at first, but warmed up to lately?

2- Is there any character that you liked from the get go, and whom you think should be revisited due to the potential you think they have?[/I]
[/QUOTE]


1. Sebastian Ballesteros. So much to dislike about the character. But looking at him less as a Cheetah and more as his own character, I found myself appreciating having this evil CEO who has a talent for seeking out the likes of Circe and Doctor Psycho, appealing to their interests and knowing just what to do to get what he wants.

2. To many. Putting aside villains since thats its own thing....
Mala, Galenthias, Mother Juju, Althea the Wood Nymph, Zoe the Neriad, Genro Genie, Cathy Perkins, Glitch, Sofia Constantinas, Jumpa, Myndi Mayer, Pele, Kane Milohai, Sojourner, Camille Sly....

I heard dc vs vampire is going to continue in 2024? Is this true? Why can't Diana catch a break in these crappy stories?

[QUOTE=WonderLight789;6625480]I heard dc vs vampire is going to continue in 2024? Is this true? Why can't Diana catch a break in these crappy stories?[/QUOTE]

In fairness no one else is happy about that either. It is an all around terrible story that treats everyone badly. It is a trainwreck.

Like Killer Frost got killed by being set on fire, [B]THE HEAT VAMPIRE ONE[/B]. And Martian Manhunter got killed wrestling some scrubs and falling over a building, its embarrassing.

Plus the artist Otto Schmidt is a jackass so thats not good either.

[QUOTE=Mantis-Ray;6625512]In fairness no one else is happy about that either. It is an all around terrible story that treats everyone badly. It is a trainwreck.

Like Killer Frost got killed by being set on fire, [B]THE HEAT VAMPIRE ONE[/B]. And Martian Manhunter got killed wrestling some scrubs and falling over a building, its embarrassing.

Plus the artist Otto Schmidt is a jackass so thats not good either.[/QUOTE]

But WW always got it bad in these stories. Always. It is super annoying.

[QUOTE=Mantis-Ray;6625512]In fairness no one else is happy about that either. It is an all around terrible story that treats everyone badly. It is a trainwreck.

Like Killer Frost got killed by being set on fire, [B]THE HEAT VAMPIRE ONE[/B]. And Martian Manhunter got killed wrestling some scrubs and falling over a building, its embarrassing.

Plus the artist Otto Schmidt is a jackass so thats not good either.[/QUOTE]
What happened with Schmidt?

[QUOTE=Gaius;6625543]What happened with Schmidt?[/QUOTE]

From what I remember for one he draws Pro-Kremlin art and its very graphic stuff. Plus he's also friends with an artist who draws extremally gross awful shit whose contents shouldn't be specified.

Its uh some fucked up shit.

[IMG] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8-aNUUWsAAL8YW?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Holt;6626326][IMG] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8-aNUUWsAAL8YW?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I thought it was going to be with the battle skirt for a second there!

Shield looks awful and not a fan of the amount of the stars of the bottoms but a solid C+/B- effort for McFarlane.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6626387]Shield looks awful and not a fan of the amount of the stars of the bottoms but a solid C+/B- effort for McFarlane.[/QUOTE]

The left inner thigh cut is up a little too high for me. I want the Wonder Thang to be fully covered. :p

reminds me of this

[img]https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/e/e0/Wonder_Woman_Vol_3_13.jpg[/img]

Happy Wonder Woman day.