Wonder Woman - General Discussion

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Can't remember having ever heard about this, but it will be nice to get another WW GN. The art looks really good.

[QUOTE=Skytten;6679039]Can't remember having ever heard about this, but it will be nice to get another WW GN. The art looks really good.[/QUOTE]

It was only really announced on their own personal social media pages years ago.

Closing seriously the gaps on my Wonder Woman collection. I have: 416 remaining issues.

I assume sooner or later DC will start re-editing the Bronze Age, so when this obssesion ends there'll be only one missing spot on my library: the Eric Luke run. Sadly, it has never been re-edited on any format...

Not that it's a very good run, or even bad, it just sucks not being able to complete my vol.2 collection.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6679669]It was only really announced on their own personal social media pages years ago.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. Makes sense why I haven't heard about it before.

[QUOTE=Frontier;6678888]Not only a Diana and Donna team-up but them working together to end a fight without fighting with their lasso's? As I live and breathe :D![/QUOTE]

Yes! I really liked this too.

Re-read the Orlando run, forgot the part when Diana just lets go a kinight woman after murdering some rando on a bar, which makes King's run even funnier

Re-read the Tamaky run, and, now whitout all the hype and expectation... it's not as bad as I thought i remembered. Once you forgive Tamaky for making the Lords the protagonists of this story, it's actually well paced, has cool art (mostly Janín and Pugh, tho, cos of course there's like 4 artists in just 10 issues), and a final meaning for the overall plot. Alltho, Wonder Woman writers should reaaaaaaally stop doing unsolved cliffhangers. No more cliffhangers for you until you solve some of the latest 5 ones.

I'm now re-reading the Messner-Loebs run, but also starting to prepare the motors for a re-read on Cloonrad, which I remember was a very good comic when there weren't any amazons on the story, for some reason.

Does anyone know between what issues Byrne's WW novel Gods and Goddesses takes place?

i didnt know this was even a thing...
[url]https://www.amazon.com/Wonder-Woman-Gods-Goddesses-Novel/dp/0761517138[/url]

Merry Christmas Wonder Woman fans :).

Just got the McFarlane WW figure. Although I don't think he got her face quite right, he def got the balance between power and femininity right in her figure. Still iffy about her having an axe, though.

Is there a Wonder Woman story like Knightfall or Death and Return of Superman? I know Gail Simone gave her a Doomsday but the Simone run (and I love it) is nothing like Knightfall or Death and Return of Superman.

[QUOTE=batnbreakfast;6684980]Is there a Wonder Woman story like Knightfall or Death and Return of Superman? I know Gail Simone gave her a Doomsday but the Simone run (and I love it) is nothing like Knightfall or Death and Return of Superman.[/QUOTE]

The Contest/Challenge of Artemis by William Messner-Loebs.

Alternativly Byrnes run on Wonder Woman. Particularly [url]https://comicvine.gamespot.com/wonder-woman-123-hell-hath-no-fury/4000-43865/[/url]
to [url]https://comicvine.gamespot.com/wonder-woman-126-where-have-all-the-heroes-gone/4000-44178/[/url]

[QUOTE=Fuzzy Mittens;6685048]Alternativly Byrnes run on Wonder Woman. Particularly [url]https://comicvine.gamespot.com/wonder-woman-123-hell-hath-no-fury/4000-43865/[/url]
to [url]https://comicvine.gamespot.com/wonder-woman-126-where-have-all-the-heroes-gone/4000-44178/[/url][/QUOTE]

Is it any good?

[QUOTE=HsssH;6685285]Is it any good?[/QUOTE]

Not really. Diana's death is so underwhelming, it's laughable. It felt like a death of a side character.

Thank you, Psy-lock and Fuzzy Mittens.

[QUOTE=HsssH;6685285]Is it any good?[/QUOTE]

Now thats a different kettle of fish. I will say, the covers look nice. But it was written by someone who clearly wanted to do a death of superman story purely because of death of superman, without really working out a means of making the story actually interesting.

Setting up the story is:
1. We find out that Hippolyta was so guilty after events in Loebs run that she fled Themyscira and has wandered the world.
2. Its established that the only reason Diana lost against Artemis in the contest for the mantle is because Hippolyta cursed Diana to lose all of her powers whenever she was in the pressence of Artemis. (Never mind that they fought alongside one another against various metahumans, demons, and the White Magician over the course of Loebs run and the Artemis mini)
3. Artemis became a professional demon slayer and found out that Hippolyta was playing a shell game with prophecy to save Diana, sacrificing her, so she wants to kill Hippolyta.
4. Necron has been setting up a series of events to lure Diana into a trap to kill her.
5. Etrigan the demon moved to Gateway city and is dating Helena Sandsmark, Cassies mother.

Hijinks ensue, Necron pulls everyone to hell, and he uses his power to flambe Wonder Womans body and soul before....Returning everyone to Earth for some reason?

Following this
1. Diana sits in a hospital for a week as the super community heal Dianas body but find her soul impossible to heal, leaving her a vegetable. Also were told that her soul is still on fire and has been constantly burning in hellfire for the entire time and shes in perpetual agony.
2. Doris Zuel (Giganta before the origin story) is dying of Zuel syndrome, an ultra rare disease which she is the first and only victim of. So she plans to use a brain transfer machine she made to stick her brain in Wonder Womans body.
3. Transfer fails, and Diana dies, and Doris' mind instead instead winds up in that of a gorillas. (Unrelated but the gorilla goes after Cassie, gets shot by a cop, and falls off a roof. Were told it dies by the end of Byrnes run.)
4. Athena pops up after Diana is dead and instantly heal her soul which she could have done the entire time. Also declares that Diana is now a god and that she must go live on Olympus, wisking her away.
5. Artemis, Donna, Cassie, and Hippolyta immediently decide someone needs to take Dianas place so they draw straws, and Hippolyta wins, becoming Wonder Woman.
6. Immediately after this Hippolyta winds up on a time travel adventure and spends a couple years in World War 2 as a member of the Justice Society, rewriting history to establish Hippolyta was the Wonder Woman of the era.
8.Its established that goddess Diana isn't allowed to actually interact with the world or talk to people or grant blessings because 'gods dont do that' and should she do so, their going to kick her out of Olympus and make her mortal again.

More hijinks ensue involving Morgan Le Fay, evil Merlin, mind controlled Etrigan, and Dark Angel. Diana gives her friends and family the blessing of encouragement and inspiration to win. They prevail, and Diana is kicked out of Olympus to retake her title at the end of the run.

To be fair ive seen some people say they find it rather enjoyable. However its a bit of a stretch to compare it to Knightfall, Death of Superman, or pretty much anything penned by George Perez on Wonder Woman

Before taking up the mantle Byrne said he didn't bother to read any Wonder Woman comics at all, and it shows.

Byrne's run is controversial, but I enjoyed it.
A lot of the problems are problems he inherited, like how corrupt Hippolyta had become, Wonder Woman's reduced role in DC history, Donna Troy's ties to Wonder Woman having been cut. He tried to fix those things and for me I think he left the series in a better place than he found it.

[QUOTE=witchboy;6686129]Byrne's run is controversial, but I enjoyed it.
A lot of the problems are problems he inherited, like how corrupt Hippolyta had become, Wonder Woman's reduced role in DC history, Donna Troy's ties to Wonder Woman having been cut. He tried to fix those things and for me I think he left the series in a better place than he found it.[/QUOTE]

Was Byrne's Wonder Woman run the one that introduced DC's version of Morgan Le Fay as a Wonder Woman villain, or am I misremembering things?

[QUOTE=witchboy;6686129]Byrne's run is controversial, but I enjoyed it.
A lot of the problems are problems he inherited, like how corrupt Hippolyta had become, Wonder Woman's reduced role in DC history, Donna Troy's ties to Wonder Woman having been cut. He tried to fix those things and for me I think he left the series in a better place than he found it.[/QUOTE]

Again, Byrne didnt read anything before him... Messner-Loebs run included. Their relationship doesnt really echo the one from before. Yes, he recovers the ties of Donna Troy with Diana, but to do so he totally fucks up Donna's continuity and status quo. Not to forget that he's the one who totally cuts the Kapatelis and Boston from the series, which is sad since Perez inteded for Vanessa to become Wonder Girl... a role that is copycatted by Cassandra Sandsmark on his run to earn royalities (dont worry because Cass ended u p being memorable thanks to Peter David, not Byrne)

There are also more problems, like how he undermines Artemis acomplishments and she as a character in general, how he uses Wonder Woman just as an excuse to use Jack Kirby toys (the same guy that HATED him for licking the fingers of the editorials while he and gerber & co. were fighting for workers rights, yes), converting Diana into a secondary of the series...

I do get why people enjoy this run, but the stuff behind the chameras involving Byrne makes it impossible for me. I consider it the worst run on vol. 2 (as Eric Luke did nothing sustantially bad if you ignore the hindu boyfriend, and you can tell Messner-Loebs was totally messed up by editorial telling him to do everything that George Perez wouldnt)

Man, it's gotten annoying trying to find stuff about WW comics on youtube and having to navigate through all the people who hate stalk Tom King and DeConnick.

Just a random tangent.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6688734]Man, it's gotten annoying trying to find stuff about WW comics on youtube and having to navigate through all the people who hate stalk Tom King and DeConnick.

Just a random tangent.[/QUOTE]

Sadly, almost all the good comic creators seem to be doing podcasts instead of videos, lol. Try out The Comics Collective Podcast!

Also, if u want nice youtube wondy content, theres the Wonder Woman Iceberg. Just a bro talking about the story of Wondy, Donna, and the amazons during almost 3 hours, lol

Been going through a lot of articles recently pertaining to characters entering the public domain. Will be interesting in WW's case, which would be around 2037, given how much of WW's stuff is already public domain (Amazons, Hippolyta, Themyscira, Ares, Circe) that combined with most of WW's iconic stuff that was established pretty early on in the early issues that you'd arguably have more to play with than Superman or Batman.

[QUOTE=Garrac;6689086]Sadly, almost all the good comic creators seem to be doing podcasts instead of videos, lol. Try out The Comics Collective Podcast!

Also, if u want nice youtube wondy content, theres the Wonder Woman Iceberg. Just a bro talking about the story of Wondy, Donna, and the amazons during almost 3 hours, lol[/QUOTE]

Ah, thanks!

[QUOTE=Gaius;6689847]Been going through a lot of articles recently pertaining to characters entering the public domain. Will be interesting in WW's case, which would be around 2037, given how much of WW's stuff is already public domain (Amazons, Hippolyta, Themyscira, Ares, Circe) that combined with most of WW's iconic stuff that was established pretty early on in the early issues that you'd arguably have more to play with than Superman or Batman.[/QUOTE]

Being in the public domain could be great for her, but then the upcoming non-Disney projects for Mickey Mouse look so banal...

[QUOTE=Psy-lock;6689880]Being in the public domain could be great for her, but then the upcoming non-Disney projects for Mickey Mouse look so banal...[/QUOTE]
Can't wait for the Amazon's Horror Movie :).

[QUOTE=Garrac;6688049]Again, Byrne didnt read anything before him... Messner-Loebs run included. Their relationship doesnt really echo the one from before. Yes, he recovers the ties of Donna Troy with Diana, but to do so he totally fucks up Donna's continuity and status quo. Not to forget that he's the one who totally cuts the Kapatelis and Boston from the series, which is sad since Perez inteded for Vanessa to become Wonder Girl... a role that is copycatted by Cassandra Sandsmark on his run to earn royalities (dont worry because Cass ended u p being memorable thanks to Peter David, not Byrne)
[/QUOTE]

Where did Perez say he intended Vanessa to be Wonder Girl?

[QUOTE=Agent Z;6689910]Where did Perez say he intended Vanessa to be Wonder Girl?[/QUOTE]

Um, good point. Looks like I got the fact confused because of an interview of Phil Jimenez talking about Kapatelis, his conversations with Perez, and Silver Swan.

Alltho, Id say up to before Byrne's run narratively it would have made the most sense.

[QUOTE=witchboy;6686129]Byrne's run is controversial, but I enjoyed it.
A lot of the problems are problems he inherited, like how corrupt Hippolyta had become, Wonder Woman's reduced role in DC history, Donna Troy's ties to Wonder Woman having been cut. He tried to fix those things and for me I think he left the series in a better place than he found it.[/QUOTE]

Everytime people talk about post crisis reducing Diana's significance, I wonder what they are talking about. If anything, Diana was [I]far[/I] more important than she had ever been by virtue of having one of the best received runs at the beginning.

Is that Amazons show still happening?

[QUOTE=Agent Z;6689968]Is that Amazons show still happening?[/QUOTE]

As far as we know? The thing is we don't have hard dates, we have a slate of what order their in.

[IMG]https://media.comicbook.com/2023/01/dc-slate-of-movies-revealed-by-james-gunn-and-peter-safran-1350451-1280x0.png?width=1200[/IMG]

Of ten announced projects, Amazon show is the ninth one. Nothing that has been announced has actually come out. Their still working on casting for the Superman movie. And for that show to even happen we have to somehow have four movies and four tv shows be high enough successes before they even consider doing that.

And this is assuming
1. Zaslav doesn't jettison the whole widdle universe for a tax break.
2. 'Max' still exists by the time the show is made which is by no means a guarantee the way their operating.
3. They don't change their mind about doing it at all. Which could very well happen as gods know higher ups panicking and at the last minute deciding to completely change their game plan is a common thing. (See Weadon taking the meh Justice League movie and turning it into a complete garbage fire because executive meddlying.)

And none of thats even going into the time involved.
We [I]think[/I] Creature Commandos is coming out this year in 2024.
Superman is slated for 2025, and supposedly there are no delays despite strikes.
Waller was already a confirmed project so it could feasibly also come out in 2025.

If that does well enough to financially prove this universe has merit, we might see others. Best case scenario they invest in the first few in advance of Supermans release, meaning we get that -shudders- Authority movie. Which will probably be a 2026 release in this best case scenario? 2027 otherwise.

Making a guesstimate on this whole thing and assuming Paradise Lost isn't doomed to the same purgatory as the Cyborg movie which was announced for 2022 release, we can probably expect the show somewhere between 2028-2030.

Even then given the rapidly decreasing length of tv show run times and the likelihood of it being the equivelent of a mini series, I see it being some 4-6 episodes, no intention of a second season, and thats it. And all we know about the thing is that it will be based on Amazon Historia, and the civil war storyline by Jiminez.

The fact that its at the very END is sus. Of course Supergirl is right before it and is already going to be in production by end of the year but I have a feeling Paradise Lost will truly be another 3-5 years away which is crazy. And it hinges of all those other titles being successful.

Yeah, I don't put much faith in Gunn for any WW content if I'm honest. I strongly suspect the Paradise Lost "show" is just repacking all those rumors of an Amazons show that dated back to 2017. And just about any WW-related stuff he's been associated since with is just free publicity/no investment tweets like when he says he's "pushing" WB animation to do more WW or that Historia tweet.

[QUOTE=Psy-lock;6689880]Being in the public domain could be great for her, but then the upcoming non-Disney projects for Mickey Mouse look so banal...[/QUOTE]
Well yes but I wouldn't really say garbage cashgrabs from indie horror directors but that doesn't mean someone couldn't come along and do their own cool take on WW using the stuff that falls into the PD.
[QUOTE=Frontier;6689887]Can't wait for the Amazon's Horror Movie :).[/QUOTE]
*looks at the recent BOP issues*

Because truly only DC comics is capable of producing good WW/Amazons stories.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6690048]Well yes but I wouldn't really say garbage cashgrabs from indie horror directors but that doesn't mean someone couldn't come along and do their own cool take on WW using the stuff that falls into the PD.

*looks at the recent BOP issues*

Because truly only DC comics is capable of producing good WW/Amazons stories.[/QUOTE]
I haven't been given much reason to trust stuff in the public domain yet either.

Something I loved about New52 - E2 is that heroes were 'Wonders" since WW influenced the world.

They should do a massive WW event that brings in the Age of Wonders to the main DCU. Have a god/gods killed off and it grants powers to various people creating new heroes or enhancing some.

If she had her own WB show, that'd basically be the concept to go with

[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6690253]Something I loved about New52 - E2 is that heroes were 'Wonders" since WW influenced the world.

They should do a massive WW event that brings in the Age of Wonders to the main DCU. [B]Have a god/gods killed off and it grants powers to various people creating new heroes or enhancing some.
[/B]
If she had her own WB show, that'd basically be the concept to go with[/QUOTE]
I like that idea. Though kind of reminds me of the New Guardians a little...

[QUOTE=Frontier;6690101]I haven't been given much reason to trust stuff in the public domain yet either.[/QUOTE]

I mean, yeah PD produces a lot of garbage but that's the great thing about something being available for everyone it's not the only version that's allowed to exist and people are free to make their own.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6690361]I mean, yeah PD produces a lot of garbage but that's the great thing about something being available for everyone it's not the only version that's allowed to exist and people are free to make their own.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but so far it's just been delivering bargain-basement versions.

I do remember hearing news about them doing a Pooh origin story but I'm still not seeing any net benefit to public domain yet.

[QUOTE=Frontier;6690411]Yeah, but so far it's just been delivering bargain-basement versions.

I do remember hearing news about them doing a Pooh origin story but I'm still not seeing any net benefit to public domain yet.[/QUOTE]

I mean...the public domain existed long before [I]Pooh: Blood and Honey[/I], I don't think a bad movie made horror hacks discredits the idea of works eventually being open to everyone. Disney's entire early catalogue is built off public domain characters, Universal's Dracula and Frankenstein (who will be entering the PD soon also) were based off public domain works, Sherlock Holmes is public domain, etc, etc.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6690831]I mean...the public domain existed long before [I]Pooh: Blood and Honey[/I], I don't think a bad movie made horror hacks discredits the idea of works eventually being open to everyone. Disney's entire early catalogue is built off public domain characters, Universal's Dracula and Frankenstein (who will be entering the PD soon also) were based off public domain works, Sherlock Holmes is public domain, etc, etc.[/QUOTE]
I get that but I have yet to see positive benefits to franchises I actually care about currently entering into public domain at the moment.