Wonder Woman - General Discussion

Superwoman beat up Batman twice. Flash’s counterpart outclassed him and was about to kill him until the good Flash stepped in. He got beat up by Owlman. The only reason Batman survived any of those scenarios is because they were toying with him.
Superman beat both Superwoman and Owlman without too much effort.
Wonder woman did the same.
The evil Flash sacrificed himself heroically

If any of the real JL faught Owlman at the end, I’ll be over in less of a second and there would be no stakes thus boring.

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFq4odeXEAA2bZi?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG]

"Yes, Wonder Woman, you died having accomplished nothing of value. But the gods will resurrect you out of the kindness of our hearts because you're just a golem anyway."


I really don't like [I]Justice[/I].

[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6718606]"Yes, Wonder Woman, you died having accomplished nothing of value. But the gods will resurrect you out of the kindness of our hearts because you're just a golem anyway."


I really don't like [I]Justice[/I].[/QUOTE]

It's not really doing anything that Perez didn't also do. Even if one doesn't like it in Perez, it's pretty disingenuous to act like [I]Justice[/I] is otherwise some big slight against Wonder Woman. She doesn't act OOC and her storyline revolves around her own arch nemesis, who gets a great showing and is the only one who actually accomplishes her goal of killing her hero (even if just temporarily).

[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6718881]It's not really doing anything that Perez didn't also do. Even if one doesn't like it in Perez, it's pretty disingenuous to act like [I]Justice[/I] is otherwise some big slight against Wonder Woman. She doesn't act OOC and her storyline revolves around her own arch nemesis, who gets a great showing and is the only one who actually accomplishes her goal of killing her hero (even if just temporarily).[/QUOTE]

WW is not a useless jobber under Perez. So i don't see how justice WW is the same as Perez WW.

[QUOTE=Agent Z;6718323]Wonder Woman beat Superwoman in the climactic fight and also defeated Owlman before Batman fought him.[/QUOTE]
[img]https://25.media.tumblr.com/7551106f5cee789222acc9b0bce80daa/tumblr_mmrs4bejJX1s54dcso1_1280.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6718606][IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFq4odeXEAA2bZi?format=jpg&name=large[/IMG]

"Yes, Wonder Woman, you died having accomplished nothing of value. But the gods will resurrect you out of the kindness of our hearts because you're just a golem anyway."


I really don't like [I]Justice[/I].[/QUOTE]
I haven't read the whole thing but this page doesn't come across that way to me at all?

[QUOTE=WonderLight789;6718884]WW is not a useless jobber under Perez. So i don't see how justice WW is the same as Perez WW.[/QUOTE]

The only person she "jobs" to in that story is Cheetah.

Shouldn't that make you happy? Cheetah being treated as an actual threat?

[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6718976]The only person she "jobs" to in that story is Cheetah.

Shouldn't that make you happy? Cheetah being treated as an actual threat?[/QUOTE]

And poison ivy?

And that cheetah is literally a human. What a feat for a character with Godly powers. Defeated by human level strength and speed.

[QUOTE=WonderLight789;6718987]And poison ivy?

And that cheetah is literally a human. What a feat for a character with Godly powers. Defeated by human level strength and speed.[/QUOTE]

Marston had Priscilla (just a lady who dresses as a cheetah) beat Diana (who lasso'd the sun).

Did he not know how to write WW?

[QUOTE=WonderLight789;6718987]And poison ivy?

And that cheetah is literally a human. What a feat for a character with Godly powers. Defeated by human level strength and speed.[/QUOTE]

Ivy isn't shown as being a challenge to Wonder Woman at all. It's a sneak attack from the nano machines controlling Batman, made from alien tech, that temporarily take her out.

As for Cheetah, take it up with Marston . He created both of them.

I haven't read Justice. Why is there a second body next to Hippolyta? Is it a vaguely human-sized lump of clay that gets Diana's conscience transferred into it, because her body is destroyed or something?

[QUOTE=DisneyBoy;6719006]I haven't read Justice. Why is there a second body next to Hippolyta? Is it a vaguely human-sized lump of clay that gets Diana's conscience transferred into it, because her body is destroyed or something?[/QUOTE]

Earlier in the story, Cheetah uses the poison that killed Hercules on Diana, which gradually undoes the magic that originally gave her life and returns her to clay. Hippolyta sculpts a new body from clay and Aphrodite transfers Diana's soul into it and gives it life.

It took literal divine intervention to thwart Cheetahs plan, making this the most successful iteration of her ever.

It's so unearned. Diana dies, doing nothing, and only comes back via deus ex machina. Literally; the gods bring her back because...nepotism? As stupid as it is to take this route at all, they couldn't at least had her die doing something useful?

No, just rot away to mulch over in the corner, Diana. Alex Ross has no nostalgia for you, so piss off.

I remember, when this series was coming out, [I]Wizard Magazine[/I] did an interview with Ross where he went over the various characters and how he sought to challenge them in different ways. And for Diana, it was basically: "Well, Wonder Woman is really pretty. What would happen if something made her ugly?"

Brilliant.

Just another useless [I]Justice League[/I] story that wastes, if not actively screws Wonder Woman.
In other words, another [I]Justice League[/I] story.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6718997]Marston had Priscilla (just a lady who dresses as a cheetah) beat Diana (who lasso'd the sun).

Did he not know how to write WW?[/QUOTE]

Marston had that version of Cheetah planing ahead. One issue she stole from amazons to gain physical stats to fight WW. Other times she would take dvantage of WW's weakness to being tied up by the lasso. Or the soft spot on the back of Amazon's head. Silly weakness but still. Did any of that happened in justice? No. WW simply struggled with human stats because apparently she is human stats herself.

And just because martston does something. Doesn't mean i approve. I will never be ok with the inconsistencies in power levels in the comics.

[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6719004]Ivy isn't shown as being a challenge to Wonder Woman at all. It's a sneak attack from the nano machines controlling Batman, made from alien tech, that temporarily take her out.

As for Cheetah, take it up with Marston . He created both of them.[/QUOTE]

WW was losing to ivy too. She was useless in battle the whole time.

Did justice WW had the same weaknesses as GA WW? No. We saw a human being beating an amazon with Godly powers. Marston did not create that WW. So no, i don't have to take it up with him. WW was a useless jober in justice. And there is no way to deny it.

[QUOTE=WonderLight789;6719029]Marston had that version of Cheetah planing ahead. One issue she stole from amazons to gain physical stats to fight WW. Other times she would take dvantage of WW's weakness to being tied up by the lasso. Or the soft spot on the back of Amazon's head. Silly weakness but still. Did any of that happened in justice? No. WW simply struggled with human stats because apparently she is human stats herself.

And just because martston does something. Doesn't mean i approve. I will never be ok with the inconsistencies in power levels in the comics.[/QUOTE]

So Cheetah under Marston thought ahead, looked at weaknesses, and used it level the playing field.

So pretty much exactly what happens in [I]Justice[/I], Cheetah has Wonder Woman poisoned to level the playing field between them,

And to go to Perez, there was when the regular Bana Amazons poisoned WW and overpowered her. She a "useless jobber" there too?

So I guess I should read Justice and make my own opinions :).

[QUOTE=Gaius;6719054]So Cheetah under Marston thought ahead, looked at weaknesses, and used it level the playing field.

So pretty much exactly what happens in [I]Justice[/I], Cheetah has Wonder Woman poisoned to level the playing field between them,

And to go to Perez, there was when the regular Bana Amazons poisoned WW and overpowered her. She a "useless jobber" there too?[/QUOTE]

She was easily getting tagged and physically struggling with a human in justice.

A regular amazon taking her by surprised with a uper poison is not the same.

[QUOTE=Frontier;6719057]So I guess I should read Justice and make my own opinions :).[/QUOTE]

You should. It's beautiful, and Justice's Cheetah is still the best version of the character for me.

I don't quite know why she'd wear a Cheetah carcass as a costume, but I'm willing to give it a look and find out, LOL.

Are we taking bets as to whether or not this Amazons series actually gets made?

[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6719015]It's so unearned. Diana dies, doing nothing, and only comes back via deus ex machina. Literally; the gods bring her back because...nepotism? As stupid as it is to take this route at all, they couldn't at least had her die doing something useful?

No, just rot away to mulch over in the corner, Diana. Alex Ross has no nostalgia for you, so piss off.

I remember, when this series was coming out, [I]Wizard Magazine[/I] did an interview with Ross where he went over the various characters and how he sought to challenge them in different ways. And for Diana, it was basically: "Well, Wonder Woman is really pretty. What would happen if something made her ugly?"

Brilliant.

Just another useless [I]Justice League[/I] story that wastes, if not actively screws Wonder Woman.
In other words, another [I]Justice League[/I] story.[/QUOTE]

Diana acts selflessly heroic while being on deaths door for the duration of the story, doesn't act Ooc, Amazon values are not attacked, and her big villain who is usually treated as a joke in such team up settings gets a great showing. Her story revolves around her own villain. Ross's interview is stupid, but isn't within the story itself and Diana isn't portrayed as vain or anything.

This seems to be making mountains out of ant hills to find reasons to be mad at the Justice League.

[QUOTE=WonderLight789;6719070]She was easily getting tagged and physically struggling with a human in justice.

A regular amazon taking her by surprised with a uper poison is not the same.[/QUOTE]

So pretty much exactly what happened under the aforementioned Marston and Perez. Cheetah, a regular woman was able to go to-to-toe with Diana like in Marston, but because of poison was able to level the playing field, like in Perez.

If you don't like [I]Justice[/I] that's fine but calling WW a ''useless jobber'' when it seems on par with portrayals in her book, by people considered definitive WW writers is a weird double standard.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6719193]So pretty much exactly what happened under the aforementioned Marston and Perez. Cheetah, a regular woman was able to go to-to-toe with Diana like in Marston, but because of poison was able to level the playing field, like in Perez.

If you don't like [I]Justice[/I] that's fine but calling WW a ''useless jobber'' when it seems on par with portrayals in her book, by people considered definitive WW writers is a weird double standard.[/QUOTE]

That didn't happen in Perez. So not the same. Justice WW was indeed shown a useless jober. And having WW struggle physically with humans is a big bad writing moment. If a WW writer does that at one point, it is still bad even if other arcs of thst writer are good. Perez did not have WW struggling with human level stats anyway. So again, not the same.

[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6719158]Diana acts selflessly heroic while being on deaths door for the duration of the story, doesn't act Ooc, Amazon values are not attacked, and her big villain who is usually treated as a joke in such team up settings gets a great showing. Her story revolves around her own villain. Ross's interview is stupid, but isn't within the story itself and Diana isn't portrayed as vain or anything.

This seems to be making mountains out of ant hills to find reasons to be mad at the Justice League.[/QUOTE]

She was a jobber. as she usually is in JL stories. Being portrayed as a jobber is still bad.

[QUOTE=WonderLight789;6719336]That didn't happen in Perez. So not the same. Justice WW was indeed shown a useless jober. And having WW struggle physically with humans is a big bad writing moment. If a WW writer does that at one point, it is still bad even if other arcs of thst writer are good. Perez did not have WW struggling with human level stats anyway. So again, not the same.[/QUOTE]
Vol 2. Issue 30, Wonder Woman's incapacitated by poison that we're given no reason to believe is magic/divine in nature.

[QUOTE=WonderLight789;6719339]She was a jobber. as she usually is in JL stories. Being portrayed as a jobber is still bad.[/QUOTE]

How is it jobbing if it's to her own archenemy, are Superman and Batman jobbers when Lex and Joker get the better of them. There is a difference between jobbing and ''this character can never, ever, ever, ever, ever under circumstances lose a fight/get bested by a villain''

Frankly, at this point it's obvious you don't like the idea Wonder Woman can ever lose. Doesn't matter the circumstances, writer, or character.

[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6719158]Diana acts selflessly heroic while being on deaths door for the duration of the story, doesn't act Ooc, Amazon values are not attacked, and her big villain who is usually treated as a joke in such team up settings gets a great showing. Her story revolves around her own villain. Ross's interview is stupid, but isn't within the story itself and Diana isn't portrayed as vain or anything.

This seems to be making mountains out of ant hills to find reasons to be mad at the Justice League.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gaius;6719193]So pretty much exactly what happened under the aforementioned Marston and Perez. Cheetah, a regular woman was able to go to-to-toe with Diana like in Marston, but because of poison was able to level the playing field, like in Perez.

If you don't like [I]Justice[/I] that's fine but calling WW a ''useless jobber'' when it seems on par with portrayals in her book, by people considered definitive WW writers is a weird double standard.[/QUOTE]

Why y'all keep taking the bait. :p

[QUOTE=Gaius;6718997]Marston had Priscilla (just a lady who dresses as a cheetah) beat Diana (who lasso'd the sun).

Did he not know how to write WW?[/QUOTE]
The absolute BEST moment for Priscilla Rich was in Superfriends. [url=https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Friends_(TV_Series)_Episode:_Secret_Origins_of_the_Super_Friends]Priscilla uses time travel to create a temporal paradox where she erases WW from history and takes her place as Wonder Woman[/url] :D Wonder Cheetah! :D

That was definitely a cool plot.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6719429]Vol 2. Issue 30, Wonder Woman's incapacitated by poison that we're given no reason to believe is magic/divine in nature.



How is it jobbing if it's to her own archenemy, are Superman and Batman jobbers when Lex and Joker get the better of them. There is a difference between jobbing and ''this character can never, ever, ever, ever, ever under circumstances lose a fight/get bested by a villain''

Frankly, at this point it's obvious you don't like the idea Wonder Woman can ever lose. Doesn't matter the circumstances, writer, or character.[/QUOTE]

By a surprised attack with a poison said to be able to kill almost any mortal instantly. We saw how easily she dealt with all those amazons before and after. While in justice, She was getting tagged and physically struggling with a human before getting poisoned.

WW can lose, but justice was not a good example of a losing moment done right

[QUOTE=WonderLight789;6719597]By a surprised attack with a poison said to be able to kill almost any mortal instantly. We saw how easily she dealt with all those amazons before and after. While in justice, She was getting tagged and physically struggling with a human before getting poisoned.

WW can lose, but justice was not a good example of a losing moment done right[/QUOTE]

Everyone gets beat up in comics.

[QUOTE=VaLoa;6719604]Everyone gets beat up in comics.[/QUOTE]

How they are beat up is the key. Don't ecpect me to believe that a human stats character should have even the smallest chance fighting a super powered being, with powers of the Gods in a physical confrontation. there is need to be explanation and planing for things like this.

[QUOTE=WonderLight789;6719656]How they are beat up is the key. Don't ecpect me to believe that a human stats character should have even the smallest chance fighting a super powered being, with powers of the Gods in a physical confrontation. there is need to be explanation and planing for things like this.[/QUOTE]

Why do you read comics then? The stories have always had piss poor powerscailing.

Made a WW supporting characters tier template to with the villain one I made.

[url]https://tiermaker.com/create/wonder-woman-supporting-characters-rankings-16496629[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/LsqIghI.png[/IMG]

Ferdinand the GOAT

[QUOTE=marhawkman;6719468]The absolute BEST moment for Priscilla Rich was in Superfriends. [url=https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Friends_(TV_Series)_Episode:_Secret_Origins_of_the_Super_Friends]Priscilla uses time travel to create a temporal paradox where she erases WW from history and takes her place as Wonder Woman[/url] :D Wonder Cheetah! :D[/QUOTE]

Iconic.
[img]https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J74SmHw7BjM/XM-pUSrSL9I/AAAAAAAAcPc/ztBxf36F68ItP5TVN0xjIG1PV2SWH0TrgCLcBGAs/s1600/origins2.jpg[/img]

[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/pw/ABLVV87pW_rS_lC9p-xcq_QlMmDgXQ9AcDDkagsdSDntpvT6XPrGGCZuB9wTE--QmYVlVQVP6X0fFve0i_ELOCBnGhFcWd4TTJ1DobCFtuz8j4X0DIvjxeM=s1600?rhlupa=MjYwMTo0ODQ6ODAwMzpiNjAwOjFjMzo2NmI5OmJlN2Y6ZDA4OA&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzEyMS4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/pw/ABLVV87TZrXy62FuQaJtr2z7uqq0vDqwaoMkkTO_6FlF8SpngyP8M6I1unFL_RBifuFFq1xnQldvXqzHb6EceRTBiQCUyLtaP566OqUiFKnK3miV0ERq8WQ=s1600?rhlupa=MjYwMTo0ODQ6ODAwMzpiNjAwOjFjMzo2NmI5OmJlN2Y6ZDA4OA&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzEyMS4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2[/img]
[img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/pw/ABLVV85BCmh5plahwaEmuPOgZZ-XNGycIrxvDKW-SEClbS3ZyN-dgZFCZLvZsH48sixQCO8A_QgXi5ghngNrQj-EGrmaj8cheXBqiaplmEeqtPlGLuODrpg=s1600?rhlupa=MjYwMTo0ODQ6ODAwMzpiNjAwOjFjMzo2NmI5OmJlN2Y6ZDA4OA&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzEyMS4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2[/img]

My list
[Img]https://i.imgur.com/yfTKqww.png[/img]

Jason needed to be there with his own tier :p

[QUOTE=Psy-lock;6720034]My list
[Img]https://i.imgur.com/yfTKqww.png[/img]

Jason needed to be there with his own tier[/QUOTE]
Ask and ye shall receive :p.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Pi3w2ql.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Gaius;6720048]Ask and ye shall receive :p.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Pi3w2ql.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

And now it's perfect

[Img]https://i.imgur.com/5BJiZIy.png[/img]

Aww... no Lyta Milton?

Ah this was fun ^.^
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