TBF, they are Doomsday clones and while I think the Amazons are strong and fast and could take down a few on their own, I can't see them being able to defeat an army of Doomsdays with not causalities.
Printable View
TBF, they are Doomsday clones and while I think the Amazons are strong and fast and could take down a few on their own, I can't see them being able to defeat an army of Doomsdays with not causalities.
[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;5815037]So, who is Marvel's "Wonder Woman"? Again...in what capacity?
[/QUOTE]
It would be a female character who is the lead of their franchise (not a side kick or a female version of a male hero) with her own rogues gallery and has their own ongoing title. Technically, Marvel doesn't have a WW, even Carol is ultimately a female spin off of the male Captain Marvel, they just don't mention him nowadays but she is the one they're currently pushing as their female lead. WW has been consistently published till she reached 700 issues, the last time I checked the only other female hero who had an unbroken ongoing till they reached a 100 was the MC2 universe version of Spider-Girl/Mayday Parker. After that you have start adding up all the sporadic ongoings that She Hulk, Captain Marvel and Black Widow. I think Marvel is well aware of this weakness so they tend to overcompensate (especially in the era of diversity) but talking up how awesome their female roster are. Meanwhile, DC almost treats WW like a token they can put out to show how diverse they are but never really follow up on it. Currently, no female heroes outside of the Sup/Bat/WW sphere has any solo ongoings.
Either way, Carol has been the female lead of Marvel for the '10's and probably for most of the 20's as well. Good chance of Monica overtaking her if her MCU version becomes more popular. But until then, Carol is the lead, both in the comics, the MCU and even the EMH's cartoon that treated her with a certain reverences that I haven't see applied to WW.
I mean:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH70PjMPs2M[/url] [stopping the Hulk]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABVXFumiPFc[/url] [joining the Avengers]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW8A-6JSY-Y[/url] [managing to push back Galactus before getting defeated]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wTmu1nOlyY[/url] [Rallying the villains to help them fight against a bigger threat]
Compared to this, the best DC seem to be able to do with WW is to give her fight scenes (which I don't mind) but fall short on actual character development. Or as a love interest to Superman or Batman. Or show her jobbing to show powerful the latest threat is. Or just slapping on the 'Daughter of Zeus' label with no respect to her actual comic book history.
[QUOTE=John Venus;5821974]It would be a female character who is the lead of their franchise (not a side kick or a female version of a male hero) with her own rogues gallery and has their own ongoing title. Technically, Marvel doesn't have a WW, even Carol is ultimately a female spin off of the male Captain Marvel, they just don't mention him nowadays but she is the one they're currently pushing as their female lead. WW has been consistently published till she reached 700 issues, the last time I checked the only other female hero who had an unbroken ongoing till they reached a 100 was the MC2 universe version of Spider-Girl/Mayday Parker. After that you have start adding up all the sporadic ongoings that She Hulk, Captain Marvel and Black Widow. I think Marvel is well aware of this weakness so they tend to overcompensate (especially in the era of diversity) but talking up how awesome their female roster are. Meanwhile, DC almost treats WW like a token they can put out to show how diverse they are but never really follow up on it. Currently, no female heroes outside of the Sup/Bat/WW sphere has any solo ongoings.
Either way, Carol has been the female lead of Marvel for the '10's and probably for most of the 20's as well. Good chance of Monica overtaking her if her MCU version becomes more popular. But until then, Carol is the lead, both in the comics, the MCU and even the EMH's cartoon that treated her with a certain reverences that I haven't see applied to WW.
I mean:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH70PjMPs2M[/url] [stopping the Hulk]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABVXFumiPFc[/url] [joining the Avengers]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW8A-6JSY-Y[/url] [managing to push back Galactus before getting defeated]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wTmu1nOlyY[/url] [Rallying the villains to help them fight against a bigger threat]
Compared to this, the best DC seem to be able to do with WW is to give her fight scenes (which I don't mind) but fall short on actual character development. Or as a love interest to Superman or Batman. Or show her jobbing to show powerful the latest threat is. Or just slapping on the 'Daughter of Zeus' label with no respect to her actual comic book history.[/QUOTE]
I think we've at least gotten equivalent moments of this in other productions (like animated movies or certain episodes of shows) even if it hasn't been consistently in one production. Aside from maybe DC Super Hero Girls.
I don't really think of Carol as [B]the[/B] female of Marvel, though she's definitely one of the hardest they push.
I guess props to Avengers: EMH for not making Carol arm candy for Tony Stark.
More credit than you give the DCAU. ;)
[QUOTE=Gaius;5822032]I guess props to Avengers: EMH for not making Carol arm candy for Tony Stark.
More credit than you give the DCAU. ;)[/QUOTE]
Speaking of Avengers, Grey Griffin is a better Diana than she is a Carol Danvers.
[QUOTE=Frontier;5822017]I think we've at least gotten equivalent moments of this in other productions (like animated movies or certain episodes of shows) even if it hasn't been consistently in one production. Aside from maybe DC Super Hero Girls. [/QUOTE]
Name specific examples.
[QUOTE=Frontier;5822017]I think we've at least gotten equivalent moments of this in other productions (like animated movies or certain episodes of shows) even if it hasn't been consistently in one production. Aside from maybe DC Super Hero Girls.
I don't really think of Carol as [B]the[/B] female of Marvel, though she's definitely one of the hardest they push.[/QUOTE]
She's too dislikable.
The Wonder Fam:
[IMG]https://64.media.tumblr.com/df3d2ae708b270f74e1d2f5ccb58d144/8c15e2e03e36de65-5a/s640x960/402c7db1747052637193636e1ad2e95023e6cb00.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=John Venus;5822437]The Wonder Fam:
[IMG]https://64.media.tumblr.com/df3d2ae708b270f74e1d2f5ccb58d144/8c15e2e03e36de65-5a/s640x960/402c7db1747052637193636e1ad2e95023e6cb00.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Love it. Though i hate Cassie constantly being viewed as the cute kid in the WW family nowadays. She desperately needs a revamp closer to pre-52
[QUOTE=John Venus;5822437]The Wonder Fam:
[IMG]https://64.media.tumblr.com/df3d2ae708b270f74e1d2f5ccb58d144/8c15e2e03e36de65-5a/s640x960/402c7db1747052637193636e1ad2e95023e6cb00.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Yara and Donna should switch places.
[QUOTE=PopQuezy;5822633]Yara and Donna should switch places.[/QUOTE]
Nah, Artemis should take Yara's spot.
[QUOTE=John Venus;5822437]The Wonder Fam:
[IMG]https://64.media.tumblr.com/df3d2ae708b270f74e1d2f5ccb58d144/8c15e2e03e36de65-5a/s640x960/402c7db1747052637193636e1ad2e95023e6cb00.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I want Donna got go back to her old Post-Crisis costume and I think it's time for Cassie to get a new costume again.
[QUOTE=Gaius;5822642]Nah, Artemis should take Yara's spot.[/QUOTE]
Yara is more important to the Wonderverse right now, so she should be front and center. Actually, Artemis is also more important, so maybe Donna should be in Artemis' place with Yara next to Diana.
[QUOTE=PopQuezy;5822711]Yara is more important to the Wonderverse right now, so she should be front and center. Actually, Artemis is also more important, so maybe Donna should be in Artemis' place with Yara next to Diana.[/QUOTE]
It's fanart. People are placed where they are because that's how the artist wanted it.
[QUOTE=PopQuezy;5822711]Yara is more important to the Wonderverse right now, so she should be front and center. Actually, Artemis is also more important, so maybe Donna should be in Artemis' place with Yara next to Diana.[/QUOTE]
Who cares who sells better? Donna is the OG! DC can take away her origin, but not her seniority. And yeah, Artemis deserves Yara's spot for being the best and most consistent supporting character in the Wonderverse.
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;5822402]She's too dislikable.[/QUOTE]
I don't think Carol will ever fully be [B]the[/B] female character for Marvel. Storm, She-Hulk and Invisible Woman all have higher chances due to their lasting presence in the comics. But really, Marvel may never have a definitive female superhero.
Yara should be included, but she's too much of a Johnny Come Lately compared to Donna and Artemis who have already put the work in as being established as important supporting characters to Diana. Or at least in Donna's case, spent time as Wonder Girl in a prolific classic DC run.
Artemis should have her spot and Donna's shouldn't be swapped out. But if it's just fanart, whatever.
[QUOTE=Nyssane;5822806]I don't think Carol will ever fully be [B]the[/B] female character for Marvel. Storm, She-Hulk and Invisible Woman all have higher chances due to their lasting presence in the comics. But really, Marvel may never have a definitive female superhero.[/QUOTE]
Storm and invisible woman are part of a team and not solo characters and She Hulk will always be in the Shadow of Hulk
[QUOTE=Gaius;5822718]It's fanart. People are placed where they are because that's how the artist wanted it.[/QUOTE]
Obviously. I am commenting on the placing the artist chose. When someone/anyone chooses to share their art with the world, people comment on it.
[QUOTE=Psy-lock;5822801]Who cares who sells better? Donna is the OG! DC can take away her origin,[B] but not her seniority.[/B] And yeah, Artemis deserves Yara's spot for being the best and most consistent supporting character in the Wonderverse.[/QUOTE]
How true! However, seniority doesn't count for much in this case as Yara is the one with the Wonder Girl name and comic and was recently shown on a DC ad to encourage vaccinations among young kids. Yara is also the one who is going to play a major role in the Trial of the Amazons and was featured on the promo art.
Seniority got Donna one page that she shared with Cassie for Diana's return from the dead. Donna really needs better representation because seniority is getting her the bare minimum.
[SIZE=1]I can't believe this is a topic of debate.[/SIZE]
The Wonder Girls are arranged based on their order of introduction. Donna is closer to the foreground since she was the first. Cassie is a little behind her since she was the second and Yara is a little further behind since she was just introduced and is the third WG.
Donna is standing next to Nubia with Diana in the foreground representing the fact that they are both Diana's closest sisters. Whether that sisterhood is due to them being clones/blood twins/adopted/whatever, doesn't matter. The point is Donna and Nubia are Diana's sisters.
The only change I would suggest for this drawing is to have Yara and Artemis standing on the opposite of the same steps, so they represent Amazons from different tribes.
Also have Phillipus appear more prominently next to Hippolyta representing her the Hipppolyta's right hand and primarily confidant and lover.
Do we really have to argue about placement? Even if this was official everyone is clearly seen and not a blip in the background. This is better than the official art we got of the family.
[QUOTE=Frontier;5822696]I want Donna got go back to her old Post-Crisis costume and I think it's time for Cassie to get a new costume again.[/QUOTE]
I like Donna's (current?) armored costume with the shoulder guards and all the straps, it looks tactical and like she needs more protection than Wonder Woman but like she's still part of the family.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]115709[/ATTACH]
I think it was Gaius who posted Cassie confronting Ares about her parentage and I'd almost forgotten how perfect the simple red and gold and ponytail looked on her. Her new costume is too many things...skirt, star leggings, jacket, red, yellow, blue, black, brown, headband and choker, often times less is more.
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;5823362]I like Donna's (current?) armored costume with the shoulder guards and all the straps, it looks tactical and like she needs more protection than Wonder Woman but like she's still part of the family.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]115709[/ATTACH]
I think it was Gaius who posted Cassie confronting Ares about her parentage and I'd almost forgotten how perfect the simple red and gold and ponytail looked on her. Her new costume is too many things...skirt, star leggings, jacket, red, yellow, blue, black, brown, headband and choker, often times less is more.[/QUOTE]
I do prefer the more “civie” look for Cassie (and Conner by extension) even if I think Cassie’s never had a costume that’s cemented as my favorite like Diana, Donna, and Artemis do.
[QUOTE=Nyssane;5822806]I don't think Carol will ever fully be [B]the[/B] female character for Marvel. Storm, She-Hulk and Invisible Woman all have higher chances due to their lasting presence in the comics. But really, Marvel may never have a definitive female superhero.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, I believe they sidelined Carol with her behavior in Civil War 1 and 2. I can forgive her transformation from Ms. to Captain and almost how she stole Monica's name, but not how she tends to act like Ann Coulter with superpowers.
Marvel is digging a deep hole for the Scarlet Witch to climb out of too, she was kind of in the running for top tier female hero but sadly not anymore, despite the success of Elizabeth Olsen's portrayal of her.
[QUOTE=Koriand'r;5823362]I like Donna's (current?) armored costume with the shoulder guards and all the straps, it looks tactical and like she needs more protection than Wonder Woman but like she's still part of the family.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]115709[/ATTACH]
I think it was Gaius who posted Cassie confronting Ares about her parentage and I'd almost forgotten how perfect the simple red and gold and ponytail looked on her. Her new costume is too many things...skirt, star leggings, jacket, red, yellow, blue, black, brown, headband and choker, often times less is more.[/QUOTE]
It's always looked too clunky to me compared to her older costumes. The shoulder guards and straps seem unnecessary.
Her best modern design is still that black cosmic star suit:
[img]https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111136928/3937287-donn.png[/img]
Her current look looks like something that should come in between this one:
[IMG]https://www.carolastrickland.com/comics/wwcentral/costume_indices/images/dt%20costumes/dtcost_june89.gif[/IMG]
And this one:
[IMG]https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61r2Dbi1o1L.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=John Venus;5823470]
[IMG]https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61r2Dbi1o1L.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I much prefer this iteration of the black jumpsuit. The plunging neckline which (I think) came in after her resurrection wasn't as cool for me.
I like that family image...but is poor Nubia really supposed to be running around in a fur cape? On a tropical island?!
Cassie looking 12 years old is weird.
I would love for them to bring back the original red suit that she typically wore during the Teen Titans series. That suited her the best IMO.
As we know when it comes to movies/tv/even animation they often streamline characters/storylines....how would you condense the WW mythos/storylines/characters?
For a movie or for a show?
[QUOTE=John Venus;5824704]For a movie or for a show?[/QUOTE]
For either
Lynda Carter is on Tamron Hall today talking about the loss of her husband Robert Altman.
[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;5824987]For either[/QUOTE]
Go with the clay origin for starters.
Have Donna be part of the main cast from day one and go with her original origin.
The Goddesses created Themsycira and blessed Diana with their powers. Athena, Aphrodite and Artemis are the primary ones.
Have Hippolyta be the daughter of Ares who defected from Ares clan to join the Amazons and was later resurrected and empowered to be their Queen.
For an animated series:
I'd use the clay birth and streamline the core regular cast to be Steve, Etta, Donna (as Wonder Girl), Ferdinand, Darnell and the Kapatelis women. Hippolyta will appear in most episodes in at least a cameo via Mental Radio, if not a full blown big role with other Amazons when Themyscira takes center stage.
She lives and operates out of Washington D.C. as her default setting, but Themyscira and Olympus show up a lot and other settings can appear.
She's at full power minus flight in the first season so she uses the Invisible Plane, gets full blown Superman-style flight in season 2 or season 1 finale (no gliding on air currents, just flight) and keeps it all the way through the rest of the show.
For villains, the core group would be the same number as we got in stuff like BTAS or Spec. Spider-Man. So about 15 or so, which we could get if we look to Cheetah, Circe, Ares, Dr. Psycho, Cale, Giganta, Villainy Inc, Dr. Cyber and the Swan.
Mostly similar to what John Venus and SiegePerilous said.
I had an outline once for a first season general arc that was a mixture of [I]Gods and Mortals[/I] and some Golden Age and Rebirth elements. Paula leading a fictional European country that's in a standoff with the U.S., with both sides being manipulated by Ares.
I would go with a mix of Amazons and civilians for the supporting cast. Diana, Artemis, Donna, Steve Trevor, Etta Candy and Helena Sandsmark. I would do what Rebirth did and have flashbacks to Diana in the past mixed with the present. Julia would be friendly with WW in the past but in the present, she would be cold and distant towards her because of Vanessa's situation.
Ares would the villain of her origin story. Cheetah would be the villain in the follow up with Veronica Cale bankrolling all the other villains behind the scenes (similar to how Spectacular Spider-Man handled it) and of course Circe would be the ultimate villain of the second or third season if the series ever gets that far.
[QUOTE=Gaius;5825550]Mostly similar to what John Venus and SiegePerilous said.
I had an outline once for a first season general arc that was a mixture of [I]Gods and Mortals[/I] and some Golden Age and Rebirth elements. [B]Paula leading a fictional European country that's in a standoff with the U.S., with both sides being manipulated by Ares[/B].[/QUOTE]
I really, really like this idea.
As far as her origin, I don't care. Clay origin or Zeus, as long as Diana/Wonder Woman's characterization is strong is what is most important to me.
Main Cast: Diana Prince/Wonder Woman, Dr. Barbara Ann Minerva, Steve Trevor, Etta Beth Candy, Priscilla Rich
Setting: Washington, D.C. The cast works at the Smithsonian. Diana and Barbara have whatever roles they had in WW1984, Etta Beth is the director of marketing, Steve is the Liaison to Argus, and Priscilla is the Argus Director. Diana and Barbara often must work with Steve and Priscilla to help investigate various artifacts, lost cities, cultures, etc. Debbie Dormaine is Barbara's sometimes teen assistant.
Themyscira - In the first 3 or so seasons, Diana is completely cut off from Themsycira.
Season One - Main Villain / Maxwell Lord. The storyline: The Lord of Deception. Lord wants to remake the world. He needs the Helmet of the Duke of Deception to give him reality-warping abilities and he gathers his team, The Lord's Disciples, to help him uncover its whereabouts. The team includes: his specialized computer a.i. Dr. Cyber, Paula Von Gunther Warmaster and Team Sear, master of disguise and espionage the shapeshifter False Face or Everyman, doctor of anthropology Giganta, master thief Angle Man, and master assassin The Mask or Mayfly. Priscilla Rich and Steve Trevor discover Lord's plan and enlist Diana and Barbara to help them discover the helmet before Lord can. This commences the globetrotting action-adventure of our protagonist. Unfortunately, in one unfortunate battle against Gigants, Warmaster, and Team Sear, False Face or Everyman, assumes Rich's identity to get close enough to kidnap Barbara for Lord. He then uses Barbara's expertise to help him successfully find the helmet and even promises to grant her the powers of a Goddess in this new world. Diana ultimately finds them too late. Diana defeats the Lord of Deception stopping him from completing making over the world. Lord is put in jail for his crimes. However, Barbara loved the taste of unlimited power that Lord granted her that was taken away too soon. She uncovers the a.i. program, Dr. Cyber, to help her to uncover the Lost City of Urzkataga.
Season 2 - Main Villain / Sebastian Ballesteros and the cult of the Urzkataga God. Barbara is in search for Urzkataga but unbeknownst to her, so is Sebastian. He wants to resurrect the one true god. The cult is a mixture of man and beast who at one point served the god. Silver Swan is one such beast and the most powerful. The cult also includes Zara who the god gave the gift of savage fire. Eviless who the god gave the gift of corporealizing evil into constructs, Dr. Psycho who has the ability of telepathy and telekinesis, Magag who the god gave flight, strength, invulnerability and an energy projecting staff, and finally Major Disaster who the god gave the ability of disaster probaility. Barbara, her assistant Debbie, and her computer program Dr. Cyber are in search with Priscilla Rich, Diana, Steve, and Etta Beth. Barbara and Debbie betray the others, take Priscilla hostage and align with Sebastian to go to the temple of Urzkataga to free the one God. Debbie sees words in a dead language she does not know. She asks Barbara to translate adn Barbara informs her that a human sacrifice is needed to open the door and release the god. Debbie in shock says, "Sacrifice" and looks at Barbara as she is bludgeoned with the weapon Barbara had hidden. Debbies blood floods in the reservoir that leads to the door which opens. Barbara reads another dead language. She walks to the body and kisses the corpse. Priscilla looks own horrified. The kiss awakens the one true god of Urzkataga. The god has white skin, yellow eyes, long, purple, braided hair, and ephemeral movement. The god is Circe - the Goddess of Magic and Retribution. She grants Barbara her wish of ultimate power for freeing her from her slumber. Barbara is the Cheetah Goddess and Sebastian and Priscella are both transformed into her Cheetah underlings. As Diana arrives, she sees Circe who immediately escapes. Now, it it Diana against the three Cheetahs.
Season 3 - Main Villain / Circe and Cheetah - Diana reels from the events of last season. In the battle, which Diana was winning against the three Cheetahs, Barbara turns against her underlings to ensure her escape. She harms Priscilla greatly and Trevor uses a high-powered stun gun to knock Sebastian unconscious. In the chaos and in attempting to save Priscilla who is still the most visibly human of the three, Cheetah uses her great speed and agility to escape the temple. Sebastian is in a coma, Priscilla is shifting between her human and Cheetah personality with excruciating pain and little control. Diana wonders how could Barbara betray them. The search for Cheetah is on with Etta Beth and Trevor's help. In this search, First Born, Medusa, Genocide, Grail, Devastation, and even a trip to the underworld occur. Finally, when Diana is almost certain she will find and reach Barbara Ann, Circe's dastardly plot commences. Circe does was Lord Can't. She remakes the world, but it's absolutely perfect. Circe is President Donna Milton in her Rucka aestetich. Vice President Maxwell Lord. Ares and Hippolyta Prince are merrily planning the wedding of their daughter, Diana Prince, to Steve Trevor. Barbara is happily dating Priscella and Etta Beth Candy has started "The Holliday Girls" which is a singing group of women who travel around the world to spread joy through song. Diana meets various rogues who have fruitful and happy careers in this new world, i.e. Paula Von Gunther who happily runs WarCycle, a fitness cycle studio. It is here where Nubia, Diana's wedding planner; Donna Troy, an intern of Diana at the Smithsonian, and Artemis, Trevor's new hire at the Smithsonian, are introduced. There is no crime, no disease, no famine, no poverty. Circe has truly made a perfect world. Unfortunately, the one thing even Circe is not powerful enough to destroy is the Lasso of Truth. Because this world is a lie, it calls out to Diana. She finds it, touches it, and has an extended flashback of the past three seasons' events. She is in her Wonder Woman garb. She confronts Circe who informs Diana her intentions are noble. She tried to rule the world in fear and she was entombed. Now she wants to rule via love. Diana, though she believes Circe who is wrapped in the Lasso, still cannot abide by lies, even if they bring joy and pleasure. She still ultimately uses the Lasso to compel Circe to end her spell of this perfect world. She ends the season with Trevor where she informs Trevor that the perfect world reminded her how much she misses and needs her mother and sisters. She must find Themyscira and through their technology and sorcery, she can bring Barbara Ann back.
Season 4 - Will obviously be the search for Themyscira and curing Barbara, the Golden Eagle Armor, and the war with the Valkeries that Ares is secretly orchestrating.
I imagine this as an animated series hence why I tried to stay away from death.
Season 5- Final Season Main villain - Ares, Villany Inc, Earl of Greed, and Count of Conquest. Ares has decided he is going to create the ultimate war. He enlists Villainy Inc, Earl of Greed and Count of Conquest. Themyscira is now a part of the world again. Diana and the Amazons - for the sake of streamlining Themyscira is the only Amazon faction so the amazons include: Hippolyta, Phillipus, Nubia, Artemis, Donna Troy, Cassie, Yara go off to war agains Ares and Villiany Inc and the Count and Earl. Once the Amazons win and Diana delivers the last blow to Ares, the Amazons create Embassy Island just outside DC/Virginia.
There is a happy ending with Steve and Diana kissing and Diana and Hippolyta hugging. A lurking Cheetah watches from a distance as doves fly off into the sunset.
Oh right. Clay origin is the opening scene of the show and is in the intro of the animated opening for every episode.