Wonder Woman - General Discussion

[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6258150]
For the most part. Anybody watching today's election results knows the pendelum is swinging hard to the right. I'm thinking of all the conservative mothers who would take issue with their daughters (or sons) reading the adventures of the world's foremost "lesbian" superhero. They don't even want their kids exposed to real history, they'd see gay Wonder Woman as some sort of indoctrination of their children.

Not to mention what a horrible cliche it is, or how it seems progressive at first glance, but becomes immediately regressive once you examine it closer and realize what it says about nature vs. nurture and how it plays into long standing stereotypes.

The risk outweighs the reward.[/QUOTE]
I mean...literally this.

[IMG]https://a.pinatafarm.com/768x894/f9b7c8de19/oh-no-anyway.jpg/m/522x0[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Gaius;6258163]I mean...literally this.

[IMG]https://a.pinatafarm.com/768x894/f9b7c8de19/oh-no-anyway.jpg/m/522x0[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Yeah...literally this.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]126054[/ATTACH]

[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6258150]Isn't even that loud? In here it's deafening!

If it were Superman it would be different, not Jon, actually Superman. That would be brave, that would be novel, that would be genuinely controversial and a tough nut to crack. With Wonder Woman it's too easy because women are given a pass to dabble sexually and people don't care.

For the most part. Anybody watching today's election results knows the pendelum is swinging hard to the right. I'm thinking of all the conservative mothers who would take issue with their daughters (or sons) reading the adventures of the world's foremost "lesbian" superhero. They don't even want their kids exposed to real history, they'd see gay Wonder Woman as some sort of indoctrination of their children.

Not to mention what a horrible cliche it is, or how it seems progressive at first glance, but becomes immediately regressive once you examine it closer and realize what it says about nature vs. nurture and how it plays into long standing stereotypes.

The risk outweighs the reward.[/QUOTE]

It's so easy that DC has never made Diana explicitly attracted to women outside of one elseworld that most peopledon't know about. If you think Diana getting a girlfriend won't be controversial, especially for people who ship her with Steve, Clark, Bruce, etc, I've got some land on the moon to sell you.

Conservative mothers aren't likely to let their daughters read Wonder Woman unless she's explicitly written in a way to appeal to their worldview. Meaning they'll likely only let them read her comic if she's being written by Frank Miller or Ethan Van Scrier. Why you care so much what conservatives think of Wonder Woman, I don't know.

You keep going on about stereotypes but don't seem to know what that word means, nor do you seem to know the difference between bisexual and gay. What stereotypes is Diana falling into by being attracted to both men and women and what the hell does that have to do with nature vs nurture? The lgbt fans who ship Diana with women don't see anything offensive or stereotypical about it, so this comes across faux concern masking dislike of Diana having a girlfriend.

[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6258150]Isn't even that loud? In here it's deafening!

If it were Superman it would be different, not Jon, actually Superman. That would be brave, that would be novel, that would be genuinely controversial and a tough nut to crack. With Wonder Woman it's too easy because women are given a pass to dabble sexually and people don't care.

For the most part. Anybody watching today's election results knows the pendelum is swinging hard to the right. I'm thinking of all the conservative mothers who would take issue with their daughters (or sons) reading the adventures of the world's foremost "lesbian" superhero. They don't even want their kids exposed to real history, they'd see gay Wonder Woman as some sort of indoctrination of their children.

Not to mention what a horrible cliche it is, or how it seems progressive at first glance, but becomes immediately regressive once you examine it closer and realize what it says about nature vs. nurture and how it plays into long standing stereotypes.

The risk outweighs the reward.[/QUOTE]

If we want to appeal to conservatives we might as well turn her into a housewife and her book into a "How to be a dutiful wife and a good Christian" manual. And Steve The Man can do the superheroing instead :p

Conservatives don't think at all, so why should we be thinking of them? The LAST think Diana's book should be 'appealing' to is conservative world views, it should be trying to get people out of them.

From a business standpoint, I can [I]kinda[/I] see where Koriand'r is coming from. But I also don't think DC is dumb enough to think conservatives know or care about Wonder Woman beyond "she's hot".

[QUOTE=Nyssane;6258631]From a business standpoint, I can [I]kinda[/I] see where Koriand'r is coming from. But I also don't think DC is dumb enough to think conservatives know or care about Wonder Woman beyond "she's hot".[/QUOTE]

To play devils advocate, only liberals know or care about Wonder Woman besides the fact that she is 'hot'? That is how I am interpreting your argument.

These are the kind of hyperbolic arguments that leads to political disagreements. Let's stop with how we group certain pools of people and assume we know all about them. I am definitely fiscally conservative but you don't know my social values. I tend towards libertarian, so can you group me somewhere in your political bible about how I view Wonder Woman?

[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6258150]Isn't even that loud? In here it's deafening!

If it were Superman it would be different, not Jon, actually Superman. That would be brave, that would be novel, that would be genuinely controversial and a tough nut to crack. With Wonder Woman it's too easy because women are given a pass to dabble sexually and people don't care.

For the most part. Anybody watching today's election results knows the pendelum is swinging hard to the right. I'm thinking of all the conservative mothers who would take issue with their daughters (or sons) reading the adventures of the world's foremost "lesbian" superhero. They don't even want their kids exposed to real history, they'd see gay Wonder Woman as some sort of indoctrination of their children.

Not to mention what a horrible cliche it is, or how it seems progressive at first glance, but becomes immediately regressive once you examine it closer and realize what it says about nature vs. nurture and how it plays into long standing stereotypes.

The risk outweighs the reward.[/QUOTE]

Most conservatives would view Diana as indoctrination of their children before we even get into what her sexual orientation would be. Her just existing in a narrative heavily skewed towards non-traditional feminity is enough to get them to want to avoid her. Would we have to avoid acknowledging she was raised by two women, Hippolyta and Philippus? This thought process is what lead to inserting Zeus into her origin to make her more heteronormative.

Most of Diana's sizeable LGBT fanbase doesn't see anything regressive about it, and they would be the ones to ask, right? So why not treat it as a non-issue? Especially in the versions where she has other Amazons children around as peers that can grow into her girlfriends. And the Perez run established that there are straight Amazons who "embrace the way of Narcissus" in the absence of men. Considering how easily she begins to explore her attraction to men, it's pretty clear there is some diversity in Amazon sexuality so she isn't being influenced by anything. It's more of a strawman to just dismiss her queerness.

As of today, it seems the Red Wave didn't make as much of a splash as it was projected to. Even if it turns out that it will, it's not Wonder Woman's job to appeal to those values. That's the last thing that should be done to her as a symbol, at least when it comes to the values that lead to Roe v Wade being overturned.

[QUOTE=BiteTheBullet;6258732]To play devils advocate, only liberals know or care about Wonder Woman besides the fact that she is 'hot'? That is how I am interpreting your argument.

These are the kind of hyperbolic arguments that leads to political disagreements. Let's stop with how we group certain pools of people and assume we know all about them. I am definitely fiscally conservative but you don't know my social values. I tend towards libertarian, so can you group me somewhere in your political bible about how I view Wonder Woman?[/QUOTE]

Believe me, we're [I]all[/I] well aware of your thoughts on Wonder Woman.

[QUOTE=Nyssane;6258863]Believe me, we're [I]all[/I] well aware of your thoughts on Wonder Woman.[/QUOTE]

Good non argument from you.

Can we assume that you will still keep up with the hyperbolic arguments and stereotyping people with your generalities?

And what are my thoughts on Wonder Woman? Besides wanting her to be powerful as she should be, and of course be able to fly in any medium, what else do you know on my thoughts about Wonder Woman? I am willing to bet that you don't know much at all.

[img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/784bfcdb151aee19f52db5b42928c75e/tumblr_mu7l8s3exX1sjdywro1_400.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=masterwitcher88;6258231]Conservatives don't think at all, so why should we be thinking of them? The LAST think Diana's book should be 'appealing' to is conservative world views, it should be trying to get people out of them.[/QUOTE]

In retrospect I have to agree with all of this.

[QUOTE=Nyssane;6258631]From a business standpoint, I can [I]kinda[/I] see where Koriand'r is coming from. But I also don't think DC is dumb enough to think conservatives know or care about Wonder Woman beyond "she's hot".[/QUOTE]

Thanks for trying to see my point of view, it's greatly appreciated.

[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6258757]Most conservatives would view Diana as indoctrination of their children before we even get into what her sexual orientation would be. Her just existing in a narrative heavily skewed towards non-traditional feminity is enough to get them to want to avoid her. Would we have to avoid acknowledging she was raised by two women, Hippolyta and Philippus? This thought process is what lead to inserting Zeus into her origin to make her more heteronormative.

Most of Diana's sizeable LGBT fanbase doesn't see anything regressive about it, and they would be the ones to ask, right? So why not treat it as a non-issue? Especially in the versions where she has other Amazons children around as peers that can grow into her girlfriends. And the Perez run established that there are straight Amazons who "embrace the way of Narcissus" in the absence of men. Considering how easily she begins to explore her attraction to men, it's pretty clear there is some diversity in Amazon sexuality so she isn't being influenced by anything. It's more of a strawman to just dismiss her queerness.

As of today, it seems the Red Wave didn't make as much of a splash as it was projected to. Even if it turns out that it will, it's not Wonder Woman's job to appeal to those values. That's the last thing that should be done to her as a symbol, at least when it comes to the values that lead to Roe v Wade being overturned.[/QUOTE]

Honestly when I wrote that last night I was too terrified to look at the early election results and was filled with an overwhelming sense of dread. The sky was falling, the world was ending and my personal political values had been rejected by the unwashed masses, or so I thought! :) In the cool light of a new day it became apparent I should have had more faith. All wasn't lost, we held our own and gave as good as we got.

As for the rest I'll address it when I annihilate Agent Z's little argument. lol

[QUOTE=Agent Z;6258203]It's so easy that DC has never made Diana explicitly attracted to women outside of one elseworld that most peopledon't know about. If you think Diana getting a girlfriend won't be controversial, especially for people who ship her with Steve, Clark, Bruce, etc, I've got some land on the moon to sell you.

Conservative mothers aren't likely to let their daughters read Wonder Woman unless she's explicitly written in a way to appeal to their worldview. Meaning they'll likely only let them read her comic if she's being written by Frank Miller or Ethan Van Scrier. Why you care so much what conservatives think of Wonder Woman, I don't know.

You keep going on about stereotypes but don't seem to know what that word means, nor do you seem to know the difference between bisexual and gay. What stereotypes is Diana falling into by being attracted to both men and women and what the hell does that have to do with nature vs nurture? The lgbt fans who ship Diana with women don't see anything offensive or stereotypical about it, so this comes across faux concern masking dislike of Diana having a girlfriend.[/QUOTE]

Are you trying to call me stupid without calling me stupid? It really does seem like it.

Let me say this slowly so you may possibly understand. The first stereotype I was referring to is that physically strong, atheletic women are same sex oriented. Gay or bi it doesn't matter to the right, it's a distinction without a difference. They only see "other" at best, and "deplorable deviants" at worse.

The second stereotype I was speaking of is that gay people have gay children due to their close proximity to and their normalization of homosexuality. However we all know that's not true, because most gay people have straight parents and their parent's heterosexuality didn't rub off on them. Therefore it irks me when posters say something to the effect of "she's from an island with only women so she MUST be same sex oriented". That's the nature vs. nurture part I was talking about.

Okay now let me change tack and tactics. Forget everything else I mentioned and imagine a little gay boy who loves Wonder Woman. He lives vicariously through her because she's powerful and pretty and magical and has an unlimited wardrobe of cool clothes she can change into at a moments notice. She has a wholly feminine world view, she wears bracelets and a tiara and the only boys around are either bad guys she beats up, or handsome men who fall hopelessly in love with her.

It's nice isn't it?

But wait, now she also has a girlfriend. That takes the little gay boy out of the equation because he can't envision himself as her anymore because the last thing he wants is a girlfriend. It's not that he dislikes bisexuals or lesbians it's that this new girlfriend changes the dynamic and pushes him out of his fantasy. Even though everything else I said is also true, therein lies the crux of my personal problem with the situation.

[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6259510]In retrospect I have to agree with all of this.



Thanks for trying to see my point of view, it's greatly appreciated.



Honestly when I wrote that last night I was too terrified to look at the early election results and was filled with an overwhelming sense of dread. The sky was falling, the world was ending and my personal political values had been rejected by the unwashed masses, or so I thought! :) In the cool light of a new day it became apparent I should have had more faith. All wasn't lost, we held our own and gave as good as we got.

As for the rest I'll address it when I annihilate Agent Z's little argument. lol[/QUOTE]

I understand the fear, that this country seems to be nose diving into fascism because a bunch of brain rot filled 'people' would vote red no matter how obviously bad just to 'own the libs' gets me too.

[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6259511]Are you trying to call me stupid without calling me stupid? It really does seem like it.

Let me say this slowly so you may possibly understand. [B]The first stereotype I was referring to is that physically strong, atheletic women are same sex oriented. Gay or bi it doesn't matter to the right, it's a distinction without a difference. They only see "other" at best, and "deplorable deviants" at worse.

The second stereotype I was speaking of is that gay people have gay children due to their close proximity to and their normalization of homosexuality. However we all know that's not true, because most gay people have straight parents and their parent's heterosexuality didn't rub off on them. Therefore it irks me when posters say something to the effect of "she's from an island with only women so she MUST be same sex oriented". That's the nature vs. nurture part I was talking about.[/B]

Okay now let me change tack and tactics. Forget everything else I mentioned and imagine a little gay boy who loves Wonder Woman. He lives vicariously through her because she's powerful and pretty and magical and has an unlimited wardrobe of cool clothes she can change into at a moments notice. She has a wholly feminine world view, she wears bracelets and a tiara and the only boys around are either bad guys she beats up, or handsome men who fall hopelessly in love with her.

It's nice isn't it?

But wait, now she also has a girlfriend. That takes the little gay boy out of the equation because he can't envision himself as her anymore because the last thing he wants is a girlfriend. It's not that he dislikes bisexuals or lesbians it's that this new girlfriend changes the dynamic and pushes him out of his fantasy. Even though everything else I said is also true, therein lies the crux of my personal problem with the situation.[/QUOTE]

Bold is where I agree with this post the most.

[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6259511]
Let me say this slowly so you may possibly understand. The first stereotype I was referring to is that physically strong, atheletic women are same sex oriented. [/QUOTE]

Diana being attracted to women and physically strong and athletic does not a stereotype make. It makes her a superhero who happens to be attracted to women. Do you see Batwoman as a stereotype? Or Renee Montoya? Those two are certainly more "butch" than Diana is typically depicted as and I haven't heard anyone from the LGBT community complain about them. If those two are acceptable as lesbians, a bisexual Diana should not be seen as offensive.


[QUOTE]Gay or bi it doesn't matter to the right, it's a distinction without a difference. They only see "other" at best, and "deplorable deviants" at worse.[/QUOTE]

Again, why are these the people whose opinions on anything, let alone Wonder Woman, you are concerned with?

[QUOTE]The second stereotype I was speaking of is that gay people have gay children due to their close proximity to and their normalization of homosexuality. However we all know that's not true, because most gay people have straight parents and their parent's heterosexuality didn't rub off on them. Therefore it irks me when posters say something to the effect of "she's from an island with only women so she MUST be same sex oriented". That's the nature vs. nurture part I was talking about.[/QUOTE]

See my and siege's posts. You really do not help your case by treating gay and bisexual as interchangeable.

[QUOTE]
Okay now let me change tack and tactics. Forget everything else I mentioned and imagine a little gay boy who loves Wonder Woman. He lives vicariously through her because she's powerful and pretty and magical and has an unlimited wardrobe of cool clothes she can change into at a moments notice. She has a wholly feminine world view, she wears bracelets and a tiara and the only boys around are either bad guys she beats up, or handsome men who fall hopelessly in love with her.

It's nice isn't it?

But wait, now she also has a girlfriend. That takes the little gay boy out of the equation because he can't envision himself as her anymore because the last thing he wants is a girlfriend. It's not that he dislikes bisexuals or lesbians it's that this new girlfriend changes the dynamic and pushes him out of his fantasy. Even though everything else I said is also true, therein lies the crux of my personal problem with the situation.[/QUOTE]

Are you under the impression gay boys have never enjoyed stories about lesbians or bisexual women?

[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6259511]...Okay now let me change tack and tactics. Forget everything else I mentioned and imagine a little gay boy who loves Wonder Woman. He lives vicariously through her because she's powerful and pretty and magical and has an unlimited wardrobe of cool clothes she can change into at a moments notice. She has a wholly feminine world view, she wears bracelets and a tiara and the only boys around are either bad guys she beats up, or handsome men who fall hopelessly in love with her.

It's nice isn't it?

But wait, now she also has a girlfriend. That takes the little gay boy out of the equation because he can't envision himself as her anymore because the last thing he wants is a girlfriend. It's not that he dislikes bisexuals or lesbians it's that this new girlfriend changes the dynamic and pushes him out of his fantasy. Even though everything else I said is also true, therein lies the crux of my personal problem with the situation.[/QUOTE]

I am a gay man, and I identify with Diana, and usually with other empowered women.
I identify with women due to the oppression we have had historically, I have always felt satisfied to see a woman who breaks the rules, I have taken them as figures to follow and they have helped me personally to follow that path.
In Perez's Wonder Woman stories, it was the first time as a child that I read the word Patriarchal and understood what that meant for our society.
Because homosexuals have been even more repressed by this society, we haven't had many models to follow, not that there have been many women.
Madonna is my greatest idol and not only because of her music but because of her actions and speeches that she had from day one. I never felt identified by the sexual choices of women, I never cared if they were straight, bi or lesbian, since that does not define people. Madonna (who they say is bi and that she has only had official heterosexual relationships) has been a defender of LGBT+ rights perhaps more than many other lesbians or gays who could be quite conservative and sexist.
I have lived with a Straight Diana almost all my life and I love her, and if they put her in a relationship with a woman I will continue to love her the same, no more no less, the same, as my favorite character of all time.
With all due respect, I don't know if you are a heterosexual man or woman or define yourself in another way, but is it your case that you project? I mean Diana is bisexual as stated by Rucka, but she hasn't had an explicit relationship with any woman in her main series, if she did, that would keep you from identifying with Diana just because of her sexual choice ? If so, I'm sorry and I understand your position, but I finally think that it would be your problem that you would have to solve, because those of us who want a Queer Diana, it does not change us to continue having a heterosexual Diana, because finally that is not what defines her, like that It does not define me nor does it define others.

[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6259511]Okay now let me change tack and tactics. Forget everything else I mentioned and imagine a little gay boy who loves Wonder Woman. He lives vicariously through her because she's powerful and pretty and magical and has an unlimited wardrobe of cool clothes she can change into at a moments notice. She has a wholly feminine world view, she wears bracelets and a tiara and the only boys around are either bad guys she beats up, or handsome men who fall hopelessly in love with her.

It's nice isn't it?

But wait, now she also has a girlfriend. That takes the little gay boy out of the equation because he can't envision himself as her anymore because the last thing he wants is a girlfriend. It's not that he dislikes bisexuals or lesbians it's that this new girlfriend changes the dynamic and pushes him out of his fantasy. Even though everything else I said is also true, therein lies the crux of my personal problem with the situation.[/QUOTE]

As someone who grew up relating to characters that were nothing like/different from me in gender, sexuality etc., that's not it works.

If the little gay boy relates to Wonder Woman then Wonder Woman having a girlfriend is not going to be the thing that breaks Wonder Woman to him. Fuck, as a kid and up, I could never relate to characters being lovestruck or horny because I'm asexual, but that didn't mean I stopped being able to relate to the characters because it was just one thing I didn't care about.

If Wonder Woman is still Wonder Woman, but with a girlfriend, then everything the boy relates to is still there. It's not like he was relating to her just because she wanted dudes.

Furthermore, it's very plausible that Wonder Woman having a girlfriend would just make him happier because he's gay, so it'll resonate. Rather than alienating, it'd be reaffirming/validating for him to see someone he relates so strongly to, be not-heterosexual.

[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6259511]Okay now let me change tack and tactics. Forget everything else I mentioned and imagine a little gay boy who loves Wonder Woman. He lives vicariously through her because she's powerful and pretty and magical and has an unlimited wardrobe of cool clothes she can change into at a moments notice. She has a wholly feminine world view, she wears bracelets and a tiara and the only boys around are either bad guys she beats up, or handsome men who fall hopelessly in love with her.

It's nice isn't it?

But wait, now she also has a girlfriend. That takes the little gay boy out of the equation because he can't envision himself as her anymore because the last thing he wants is a girlfriend. It's not that he dislikes bisexuals or lesbians it's that this new girlfriend changes the dynamic and pushes him out of his fantasy. Even though everything else I said is also true, therein lies the crux of my personal problem with the situation.[/QUOTE]

As a "little gay boy" who was fascinated by Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman and later, loving the character in the comics, I can say that Diana's relationship to Steve Trevor was a non-factor in my love of the character. There are so many traits to this character that any gender or sexual preference can relate to, besides her sexuality or interest in either sex. As people, we are so much more than our genders or preferences so, reducing a person or by extension, a character, to that does a disservice.

As an out and proud gay man who still loves Wonder Woman, after reading Wonder Woman Earth One and other stories where Diana is shown or strongly suggested as being bisexual and having a relationship with a woman, this does not in any way diminish my fascination or love of this character. Just for reference, I still do the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman spin, just like when I was a kid.

Shout out to Phil Jimenez, the little gay boy who grew up to love Hippolyta and most likely ships her with Philippus.

[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6259511]Are you trying to call me stupid without calling me stupid? It really does seem like it.

Let me say this slowly so you may possibly understand. The first stereotype I was referring to is that physically strong, atheletic women are same sex oriented. Gay or bi it doesn't matter to the right, it's a distinction without a difference. They only see "other" at best, and "deplorable deviants" at worse.

The second stereotype I was speaking of is that gay people have gay children due to their close proximity to and their normalization of homosexuality. However we all know that's not true, because most gay people have straight parents and their parent's heterosexuality didn't rub off on them. Therefore it irks me when posters say something to the effect of "she's from an island with only women so she MUST be same sex oriented". That's the nature vs. nurture part I was talking about.[/QUOTE]

Again, no one is saying Donna, Cassie, Yara, or all of the Amazons must be queer. Diana occupies a unique position where she was one of the first, if not THE first major character in pop culture to be very heavily coded as queer, and GA WW comics are one of VERY few works at the time that portrayed female homoeroticism as joyful rather than shameful or hyperfetishized (still something we rarely see, to this day). If you've read the GA WW comics, know anything about Marston's background/intent, and think that's reading into things, I'm honestly not sure what to say.

Besides, if we really want to get into the weeds on the nature vs. nurture thing, the idea of rigid, labeled sexual orientations like "gay" and "straight" is a social construct. The Amazons who grew up among their tribes wouldn't identify as anything. But I digress.

Also, I don't know if you're gay or straight, but queer people aren't the ones taking issue with Diana being bi or saying it's offensive.

[QUOTE=Koriand'r;6259511]Okay now let me change tack and tactics. Forget everything else I mentioned and imagine a little gay boy who loves Wonder Woman. He lives vicariously through her because she's powerful and pretty and magical and has an unlimited wardrobe of cool clothes she can change into at a moments notice. She has a wholly feminine world view, she wears bracelets and a tiara and the only boys around are either bad guys she beats up, or handsome men who fall hopelessly in love with her.

It's nice isn't it?

But wait, now she also has a girlfriend. That takes the little gay boy out of the equation because he can't envision himself as her anymore because the last thing he wants is a girlfriend. It's not that he dislikes bisexuals or lesbians it's that this new girlfriend changes the dynamic and pushes him out of his fantasy. Even though everything else I said is also true, therein lies the crux of my personal problem with the situation.[/QUOTE]

Gay men here have spoken their piece so I won't speak for them, but as a lesbian, cis gay boys aren't the only queer folks who connect with the character - I can't tell you how much pain and confusion I would've been spared if I'd seen powerful WLWs in media as a kid. But on the same token, I've never had any issues connecting with straight women characters just because they were dating men.

[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6259948]Shout out to Phil Jimenez, the little gay boy who grew up to love Hippolyta and most likely ships her with Philippus.[/QUOTE]

He did refer to Philippus as Hippolyta's consort in his notes on the Amazons for Historia!

Frankly I just find the interactions with some women Diana has to be way more romantically charged that she does with most men.

It doesn’t guarantee the relationship will be a success or even interesting, but no one ever bothers to explore that so it just feels like miss opportunity.

(And no, I don’t could little one-off smooches in an else-worlds story. That’s not exploring a relationship, that’s just surface level character fluff)

[QUOTE=I'm a Fish;6260066]Frankly I just find the interactions with some women Diana has to be way more romantically charged that she does with most men.

It doesn’t guarantee the relationship will be a success or even interesting, but no one ever bothers to explore that so it just feels like miss opportunity.

(And no, I don’t could little one-off smooches in an else-worlds story. That’s not exploring a relationship, that’s just surface level character fluff)[/QUOTE]

Firing a round of battleship-sized pot shots at a certain Australian Elseworlds writer? :p

[QUOTE=Gaius;6260109]Firing a round of battleship-sized pot shots at a certain Australian Elseworlds writer? :p[/QUOTE]

You know me to well [B][COLOR="#A52A2A"]Gaius[/COLOR][/B]. XD

[video=youtube;e6Jp1O4xQvA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6Jp1O4xQvA[/video]
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[IMG]https://64.media.tumblr.com/569289f389cc003d173de20371863727/tumblr_mzpnzpgQhd1r3i7aho3_250.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=masterwitcher88;6265373][video=youtube;e6Jp1O4xQvA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6Jp1O4xQvA[/video]
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[IMG]https://64.media.tumblr.com/569289f389cc003d173de20371863727/tumblr_mzpnzpgQhd1r3i7aho3_250.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Is this more of a homage to Kevin Conroy or did you just like the ship on the show?

[QUOTE=BiteTheBullet;6265512]Is this more of a homage to Kevin Conroy or did you just like the ship on the show?[/QUOTE]

Its not my video?!?! Lol no I hate the ship.

[QUOTE=masterwitcher88;6265852]Its not my video?!?! Lol no I hate the ship.[/QUOTE]

I only asked since you posted the video without any context.

It's a ship that a lot of people on this forum don't like, me included... The video was talking about how it's the best ship ever and how 'This Little Piggy' was one of the best episodes of JLU... and the gif of 'call the banners' is tongue and cheek for everyone who doesn't like the ship to see the video.

Yeah, this is pretty much the only DC-related place I've been too where "WonderBat" is flat out disliked.

Well, this has been an interesting discussion.

Since Queen Hippolyta is dead and Nubia is the new queen of Themyscira, is Diana still a princess or she no longer have that title?

[QUOTE=Zahina;6266145]Since Queen Hippolyta is dead and Nubia is the new queen of Themyscira, is Diana still a princess or she no longer have that title?[/QUOTE]

Pretty sure she's still a princess.

[QUOTE=Zahina;6266145]Since Queen Hippolyta is dead and Nubia is the new queen of Themyscira, is Diana still a princess or she no longer have that title?[/QUOTE]

It's a very interesting monarchy.

By all rites Diana should be queen. The only reason she wasn't was because she was also thought to be dead, and the contest was to determine the next Wonder Woman or Champion of man's world. Then, Hippolyta pulled an uno reverse card on Nubia and had her be Queen while she went and did F all on the Justice League under Bendis. I'm happy Bendis didn't touch her, not that Hippolyta was any better.

Nubia's new origin doesn't make her Diana's sister, it actually removes any affiliation with Hippolyta and the royal family. Nubia came to the amazons fully grown from the well at the same time Diana was given life, that's all the connection really. Could be deeper, but it's not rn. Nubia was already a champion of Dooms Doorway by the time Diana left for Man's World, she was doing her own thing for a long time, I liked that. Then Diana died and the contest was held. Nubia gave up one title to earn another, she should have gone out into the world, under a better writer and direction Nubia could have had a solid run as Man's World's newest Champion. Instead, she was stuck on Themyscira. Like I'm glad we get more Nubia, but I have not been a massive fan of the direction.

Thanks for the summary, I never heard the details regarding Nubia. Is Hippolyta still dead?

[QUOTE=DisneyBoy;6267620]Thanks for the summary, I never heard the details regarding Nubia. Is Hippolyta still dead?[/QUOTE]

Yes, still dead. Nubia is still Queen and will be joining the Justice League in a one-shot available Nov 29th as part of her 50th anniversary.

In light of the discourse around the British monarchy and the fact that DC actually did this for some time, should Themyscira abolish the monarchy again?

And how's this "Hippolyta amongst the Pantheon" plot going..? That's where she ended up, right?

[QUOTE=DisneyBoy;6268901]And how's this "Hippolyta amongst the Pantheon" plot going..? That's where she ended up, right?[/QUOTE]

Yes, Hippolyta ascended to Olympus, although her greater role or title amongst the Greek pantheon has yet to be defined other than being the patron of Themyscira. This was showcased in Olympus Rebirth one-shot by Cloonan and Conrad. This storyline has yet to be revisited in the main WW book.

Dawn of DC line looking depressing as hell. 20 new books, 1 woman creative (Tamaki writing a Hal Jordan title), and 0 woman-led titles.

DC has an amazing roster of female characters and no faith in any of them, and it just becomes a self-perpetuating cycle. They assume woman-led books won't sell so they assign them to D-list creative teams, do 0 promo, let the bad to middling reviews roll in, and then assume the lack of interest is because of the character's gender. Sigh.

My only hope is that we'll get either a miniseries or another WW Black Label book because that's the only way we're getting ANY exciting new woman-led anything.