Wonder Woman - General Discussion

[QUOTE=Gaius;6278558]WW variants/pinups are so boring most of the time. Ones for her 80th were particularly disappointing given how many of them were just some variant of the bullets/bracelets pose. Not the best indicator of the artists passion for WW. Travis Moore's was the best on the basis he actually did something that actually celebrated an era of her history.

This the standard they should be striving for.

[IMG]https://live.staticflickr.com/4138/4743375199_cc74a7b47a_b.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/72/98/38/729838b2609ab01b35c6261cc83c0acf.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

I loved playing "Spot the Villain" with these two pinups.

It's interesting how Perez grouped Shim'tar and Dr. Cyber together. I wonder if he originally planned for her to be Cyber's post-Crisis equivalent?

[QUOTE=Agent Z;6278567]We don't know the full context of that incident. We know Waller was wrong/possibly lying when she said the guy was unarmed so who knows what else is being left out in that report.

I'm generally not a fan of Johns' depiction of Diana or the Justice League, but this situation is too ambiguous to judge.[/QUOTE]

There really isn't a need for full context, or if the guy is armed or not. Wonder Woman is one of the most powerful beings on the planet. Any scenario that is written where she needs to cross the line against a non-powered run of the mill criminal is a bad one.

That's a scenario best reserved for street level or even mid-tier powered heroes. Wonder Woman needs to be nerfed in order for these scenarios to work. Rucka had a rookie Diana learn her powers on the fly in year One without the need to kill a single person, and he typically writes her as someone who is willing to kill if necessary.

Or that she showed more restraint in his first run against human trafficker's

[QUOTE=Gaius;6278990]Or that she showed more restraint in his first run against human trafficker's[/QUOTE]

Also this. And she did it while blind lol.

Maybe if she's also fighting a God-tier meta at the same time and their human henchmen are going for civilians, and she can't divide her attention too much, so she flings a sword or an arrow real quick to take them out because there isn't enough time for other options. But if it's just her and normal human criminals, she has the speed of Hermes. She can disarm them before they even blink.

[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;6278996]Also this. And she did it while blind lol.

Maybe if she's also fighting a God-tier meta at the same time and their human henchmen are going for civilians, and she can't divide her attention too much, so she flings a sword or an arrow real quick to take them out because there isn't enough time for other options. But if it's just her and normal human criminals, [B]she has the speed of Hermes. She can disarm them before they even blink[/B].[/QUOTE]

That is always the answer with Diana, if it were another villain in her tier who is so evil and will not backdown, stop, or see reason than Diana would kill more as an act of mercy and with no malice.

[video=youtube_share;bvtiGxc7NSQ]https://youtu.be/bvtiGxc7NSQ[/video]

[QUOTE=Frontier;6279107][video=youtube_share;bvtiGxc7NSQ]https://youtu.be/bvtiGxc7NSQ[/video][/QUOTE]

If they dont bring out a Diana one... they failed at the obvious promotion lol

[QUOTE=Gaius;6278434]^ Would love to see that Elseworld, Guy_McNights lol.[/QUOTE]
I'd read it. Problem is the scenario I posited suggests killing Max was the better option after all and Diana's a hero for taking all the blow-back herself. And I can't imagine DC allowing that. I think they'd rather the question remain ambiguous or that Diana was wrong.


Unrelated, but to pick on shared universes some more...it annoys me that characters need to awkwardly sync up even when their respective development doesn't.

For instance, Batman's reached a point where he has three or four generations of Robin, the latest of which his adolescent son, so he must therefore now be at least in his forties. That's not necessarily a problem, but now, apparently, everyone in Bruce's generation must age along with him whether it suits them or not.
Or get aged down, which I understand is what they did with Zatanna in the [I]Young Justice[/I] show...leading to her getting shipped with Nightwing, which is a whole thing.

Characters aging and growing up and whatnot isn't a bad thing. That's how we got Nightwing. That's how Wally became the Flash. But I think it should done if it works for that particular character. If it's natural progression they've reached.
Diana and her world shouldn't be forced to age or change because of what's happening in Batman or Superman or anyone else's world. If the Bat-family has become too large and unwieldy...that sounds like a Batman problem. Why does Diana (or anyone) have to suffer for it? If DC can't decide whether Barry or Wally should be the main Flash...that's a Flash problem. DC didn't need to introduce a "new" Wonder Woman because of it.**

**Granted, Yara has not and likely will not replace Diana anytime soon...and I've nothing really against her...but her creation was less about introducing a new character who contributes to Wonder Woman's world and more about syncing with the editorial mandate.

I've noticed how some people are saying Diana should have a daughter now just because Bruce and Clark have kids. I think if Diana is to finally have a kid in current canon, it should be because that's where her story and character has naturally gone or because a daughter will actually add something worth while. Not because "the other guys in the universe she's shackled to are doing it."

Anytime DC does one of its annual continuity overhauls, Diana gets affected...not because anyone in charge is thinking about or cares how it impacts her world or character, but because no one can be arsed. The recent Justice Society bollocks ties to this, too. So they're re-establishing their history and have decided Diana's a part of it...even though it makes a mess of her world and benefits her in absolutely no way.

So, yeah...there are times when it feels less like Wonder Woman is part of the DC universe and more like she's being held hostage by it.

[QUOTE=Guy_McNichts;6279227]I'd read it. Problem is the scenario I posited suggests killing Max was the better option after all and Diana's a hero for taking all the blow-back herself. And I can't imagine DC allowing that. I think they'd rather the question remain ambiguous or that Diana was wrong.


Unrelated, but to pick on shared universes some more...it annoys me that characters need to awkwardly sync up even when their respective development doesn't.

For instance, Batman's reached a point where he has three or four generations of Robin, the latest of which his adolescent son, so he must therefore now be at least in his forties. That's not necessarily a problem, but now, apparently, everyone in Bruce's generation must age along with him whether it suits them or not.
Or get aged down, which I understand is what they did with Zatanna in the [I]Young Justice[/I] show...leading to her getting shipped with Nightwing, which is a whole thing.

Characters aging and growing up and whatnot isn't a bad thing. That's how we got Nightwing. That's how Wally became the Flash. But I think it should done if it works for that particular character. If it's natural progression they've reached.
Diana and her world shouldn't be forced to age or change because of what's happening in Batman or Superman or anyone else's world. If the Bat-family has become too large and unwieldy...that sounds like a Batman problem. Why does Diana (or anyone) have to suffer for it? If DC can't decide whether Barry or Wally should be the main Flash...that's a Flash problem. DC didn't need to introduce a "new" Wonder Woman because of it.**

**Granted, Yara has not and likely will not replace Diana anytime soon...and I've nothing really against her...but her creation was less about introducing a new character who contributes to Wonder Woman's world and more about syncing with the editorial mandate.

I've noticed how some people are saying Diana should have a daughter now just because Bruce and Clark have kids. I think if Diana is to finally have a kid in current canon, it should be because that's where her story and character has naturally gone or because a daughter will actually add something worth while. Not because "the other guys in the universe she's shackled to are doing it."

Anytime DC does one of its annual continuity overhauls, Diana gets affected...not because anyone in charge is thinking about or cares how it impacts her world or character, but because no one can be arsed. The recent Justice Society bollocks ties to this, too. So they're re-establishing their history and have decided Diana's a part of it...even though it makes a mess of her world and benefits her in absolutely no way.

So, yeah...there are times when it feels less like Wonder Woman is part of the DC universe and more like she's being held hostage by it.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I remember a lot of "When does Diana get a kid?" entirely because of Jon Kent and the Super-Sons book. Which I can only thank all the Goddesses of all the pantheons hasn't happened yet given my feelings towards the World's Finest offspring.

But yeah, feels like WW's just given similar stuff because Superman, Batman, or other heroes have them. Regardless of whether it makes sense to her or not; kid teen sidekick, WW being a legacy mantle, secret I.D. after not having one, fake comic book city. It does work sometimes imo, such as pairing Artemis with the Outlaws as respective "black sheep" but that seems more a happy accident than anything else.

Perez actually talked about this in some interviews he did at 'cons saying he thought stuff like that only made WW more of just "Superman but a girl" then whatever her powers were.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6279247]Yeah, I remember a lot of "When does Diana get a kid?" entirely because of Jon Kent and the Super-Sons book. Which I can only thank all the Goddesses of all the pantheons hasn't happened yet given my feelings towards the World's Finest offspring.

But yeah, feels like WW's just given similar stuff because Superman, Batman, or other heroes have them. Regardless of whether it makes sense to her or not; kid teen sidekick, WW being a legacy mantle, secret I.D. after not having one, fake comic book city. It does work sometimes imo, such as pairing Artemis with the Outlaws as respective "black sheep" but that seems more a happy accident than anything else.

Perez actually talked about this in some interviews he did at 'cons saying he thought stuff like that only made WW more of just "Superman but a girl" then whatever her powers were.[/QUOTE]

But giving her flight and bulletproof skin are going too far:p.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6279247]Yeah, I remember a lot of "When does Diana get a kid?" entirely because of Jon Kent and the Super-Sons book. Which I can only thank all the Goddesses of all the pantheons hasn't happened yet given my feelings towards the World's Finest offspring.

But yeah, feels like WW's just given similar stuff because Superman, Batman, or other heroes have them. Regardless of whether it makes sense to her or not; kid teen sidekick, WW being a legacy mantle, secret I.D. after not having one, fake comic book city. It does work sometimes imo, such as pairing Artemis with the Outlaws as respective "black sheep" but that seems more a happy accident than anything else.

Perez actually talked about this in some interviews he did at 'cons saying he thought stuff like that only made WW more of just "Superman but a girl" then whatever her powers were.[/QUOTE]

Personally, I blame Batman because sometimes I feel this happens with Superman as well. Like sometimes I get the feeling they want to give him a super-family to go with the Robins, some people want Supergirl to be Clark's sidekick/have the palce that Dick Grayson had as the first Robin towards Batman but towards Superman (even though she was compeltely different) etc etc.

The Batman-ization fo some of these characters goes in very different ways, beyond the tested-and-failed "let's make them darker".

[QUOTE=Agent Z;6279279]But giving her flight and bulletproof skin are going too far:p.[/QUOTE]

Are you saying that Diana shouldn't fly?

[QUOTE=BiteTheBullet;6279430]Are you saying that Diana shouldn't fly?[/QUOTE]

'Tis sarcasm. Saying it's silly that people will demand she have all of the same stuff as Superman (the secret identity, the lair, the fictional city, the spouse and kid, etc.) but draw the line at pretty sensible updates to her already-derivative power set.

In general the classic superhero trappings make no sense for her. Why would she be tethered to a city when she's an immortal outsider who can be anywhere in a matter of minutes? Why would she have a strong secret ID when she has no mortal roots and her whole deal is making people tell the truth? Why would she have a Batcave or a Fortress of Solitude when she doesn't work in secret and shares her lore with the Amazons? Why would she settle down with a husband and kids when she was raised collectively by a community that resists the traditional concept of marriage?

That said, I'm not opposed to her having a kid when/if it makes sense in the story (which it hasn't yet and doesn't now), I'm just opposed to her having a nuclear family. I did like the idea of the Diana's Daughter BL book Greg Rucka wanted to do, though - it's too bad he couldn't make it work.

Let's hope the Bat-office is done with making more Robins. The Wonder family is already too big for one book and can't even handle having one Wonder Girl, let alone more than three.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6279247]Yeah, I remember a lot of "When does Diana get a kid?" entirely because of Jon Kent and the Super-Sons book. Which I can only thank all the Goddesses of all the pantheons hasn't happened yet given my feelings towards the World's Finest offspring.

But yeah, feels like WW's just given similar stuff because Superman, Batman, or other heroes have them. Regardless of whether it makes sense to her or not; kid teen sidekick, WW being a legacy mantle, secret I.D. after not having one, fake comic book city. It does work sometimes imo, such as pairing Artemis with the Outlaws as respective "black sheep" but that seems more a happy accident than anything else.

Perez actually talked about this in some interviews he did at 'cons saying he thought stuff like that only made WW more of just "Superman but a girl" then whatever her powers were.[/QUOTE]

Well, at least Diana has her parent Hippolyta as a mom, who was out there kicking ass as well. Something the other franchises didn’t have.


At least not until recently, when the Batman franchise deciding to copy Wonder Woman and make Thomas Wayne into the Flashpoint Batman. ��

[QUOTE=bardkeep;6279530]'Tis sarcasm. Saying it's silly that people will demand she have all of the same stuff as Superman (the secret identity, the lair, the fictional city, the spouse and kid, etc.) but draw the line at pretty sensible updates to her already-derivative power set.

In general the classic superhero trappings make no sense for her. [B]Why would she be tethered to a city when she's an immortal outsider who can be anywhere in a matter of minutes?[/B] Why would she have a strong secret ID when she has no mortal roots and her whole deal is making people tell the truth? Why would she have a Batcave or a Fortress of Solitude when she doesn't work in secret and shares her lore with the Amazons? [B]Why would she settle down with a husband and kids when she was raised collectively by a community that resists the traditional concept of marriage?
[/B]
That said, I'm not opposed to her having a kid when/if it makes sense in the story (which it hasn't yet and doesn't now), I'm just opposed to her having a nuclear family. I did like the idea of the Diana's Daughter BL book Greg Rucka wanted to do, though - it's too bad he couldn't make it work.[/QUOTE]

To be fair to the bolded points:

The city is more for her earth-bound allies more than anything else. Yes, we'd eventually have iconic placing in the city (Marstan University, Frozen Justice: frozen yogurt shop, Taco Wiz, ARGUS, Cale Industries, etc..) but it's mainly for the embassy group, Cassie, Steve, Ferdinand, Etta and so on. It's so they can be focused on and keep grounded, not really Diana. Superman can also be anywhere in the universe in minutes, but Metropolis is where Jimmy and Lois are.

I view Diana having a family with a husband and kids the way Emma D'Arcy views Rhaenyra having a family - " I think despite her questions about motherhood, what she discovers in having children is that she gets to build a tribe of her own. And actually, finds a space where she feels free to be herself, and that's in this family unit that she builds." It doesn't need to be nuclear but, not many comic book hero families are (looking at you Batman) I think Diana actually being a mother would be a surprising development. But she just isn't in that spot at the moment.

Wasn't there going to be a Greg Rucka series titled "Diana's Daughter?" Or was that completely canceled?
[QUOTE=Zagre;6279416]Personally, I blame Batman because sometimes I feel this happens with Superman as well. Like sometimes I get the feeling they want to give him a super-family to go with the Robins, [B]some people want Supergirl to be Clark's sidekick/have the palce that Dick Grayson had as the first Robin towards Batman but towards Superman (even though she was compeltely different) etc etc.[/B]

The Batman-ization fo some of these characters goes in very different ways, beyond the tested-and-failed "let's make them darker".[/QUOTE]
Functionally she's not that different though.

[QUOTE=Zagre;6279416]Personally, I blame Batman because sometimes I feel this happens with Superman as well. Like sometimes I get the feeling they want to give him a super-family to go with the Robins, some people want Supergirl to be Clark's sidekick/have the palce that Dick Grayson had as the first Robin towards Batman but towards Superman (even though she was compeltely different) etc etc.

The Batman-ization fo some of these characters goes in very different ways, beyond the tested-and-failed "let's make them darker".[/QUOTE]

Yes, seems in addition to being all having their own families they have be modeled after Bats too, This is pretty much why Cassie exists, because there was a Superboy and Robin III running around in the 90s.

Like I said, sometimes it works like with Artemis and Jason both occupying similar character types but that they were developed independently given he was a dead 12 year old when she was created.

[QUOTE=Frontier;6279670]Wasn't there going to be a Greg Rucka series titled "Diana's Daughter?" Or was that completely canceled?
[/QUOTE]
Yes, Rucka couldn't get the story to work and so he shelved it. He didn't completely say it'll never happen but I wouldn't go about assuming it's still any form of production.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was approached similar to KSD was for Historia where DC wanted a list of impressive creator names to put in the BL announcement trailer long before any of their stories would have been ready to go.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6279698]Yes, seems in addition to being all having their own families they have be modeled after Bats too, This is pretty much why Cassie exists, because there was a Superboy and Robin III running around in the 90s.[/QUOTE]
Was that a confirmed reason why Byrne created her?

It's not even just a Bat-thing though, most DC properties have sidekicks/protege type characters.
[QUOTE]Yes, Rucka couldn't get the story to work and so he shelved it. He didn't completely say it'll never happen but I wouldn't go about assuming it's still any form of production.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was approached similar to KSD was for Historia where DC wanted a list of impressive creator names to put in the BL announcement trailer long before any of their stories would have been ready to go.[/QUOTE]
Got it.

[QUOTE=Frontier;6279714]Was that a confirmed reason why Byrne created her?

It's not even just a Bat-thing though, most DC properties have sidekicks/protege type characters.
[/QUOTE]
I think the most Byrne ever talked about the creation of the Sandsmarks was he didn't think anyone outside of Perez should have used the Kapatelis family. Why he then made them direct duplicates is anyone's guess. But I imagine other DC youngsters popping up around the same time probably played a factor.

Yes, I'm not denying it goes beyond the Bat-family but it's definitely the model everyone talks about when they say they want a massive hero community that all share some theme between them.

Like Bardkeep says, not every superhero trope is applicable to Diana imo. Whatever those ones being of course up the individual.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6279732]I think the most Byrne ever talked about the creation of the Sandsmarks was he didn't think anyone outside of Perez should have used the Kapatelis family. Why he then made them direct duplicates is anyone's guess. But I imagine other DC youngsters popping up around the same time probably played a factor.

Yes, I'm not denying it goes beyond the Bat-family but it's definitely the model everyone talks about when they say they want a massive hero community that all share some theme between them.

Like Bardkeep says, not every superhero trope is applicable to Diana imo. Whatever those ones being of course up the individual.[/QUOTE]
I like to view the Sandsmarks as more of a contrast to the Kapatelis than direct dubplicates, because there are definitely differences.

[QUOTE=bardkeep;6279530]'Tis sarcasm. Saying it's silly that people will demand she have all of the same stuff as Superman (the secret identity, the lair, the fictional city, the spouse and kid, etc.) but draw the line at pretty sensible updates to her already-derivative power set.

In general the classic superhero trappings make no sense for her. Why would she be tethered to a city when she's an immortal outsider who can be anywhere in a matter of minutes? Why would she have a strong secret ID when she has no mortal roots and her whole deal is making people tell the truth? [B]Why would she have a Batcave or a Fortress of Solitude when she doesn't work in secret and shares her lore with the Amazons?[/B] Why would she settle down with a husband and kids when she was raised collectively by a community that resists the traditional concept of marriage?

That said, I'm not opposed to her having a kid when/if it makes sense in the story (which it hasn't yet and doesn't now), I'm just opposed to her having a nuclear family. I did like the idea of the Diana's Daughter BL book Greg Rucka wanted to do, though - it's too bad he couldn't make it work.[/QUOTE]

Well the bases are less about “working in secret” and moreso about just having a place for the hero to put trophies, indulge their hobbies, gather with their allies, and basically use it to show off their character. I think they’re cool and Diana benefits from having more cool stuff. I agree with the rest of your post however, especially with regards to a secret identity which has always felt silly and pointless for Diana in contrast to Clark and Bruce.

[QUOTE=Vordan;6280083]Well the bases are less about “working in secret” and moreso about just having a place for the hero to put trophies, indulge their hobbies, gather with their allies, and basically use it to show off their character. I think they’re cool and Diana benefits from having more cool stuff. I agree with the rest of your post however, especially with regards to a secret identity which has always felt silly and pointless for Diana in contrast to Clark and Bruce.[/QUOTE]

The secret ID thing? It made sense in World War II, when Washington, DC was the capital of our war effort, and being there, disguised as Military Intelligence, gave her access to the latest developments in overseas conflicts. If some writer could frame a super-Washington, a DC characterized by larger-than-life or fantastical visual elements to enhance its presence in the comic - an X-filesy city - it might make sense for Wonder Woman to be there, today.

Otherwise...not much use for the secret ID or much point being in Washington, DC.

[CENTER][IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fiv3ZeDXoAEpPg8?format=png&name=small[/IMG]
[SIZE=1][I]Etta Candy lives in a part of Washington, DC called 'Georgetown'. Re-imagined as a separate super-Washington, Georgetown could be the X-files capital of the DCU.[/I][/SIZE][/CENTER]

I think we just want some familiar things that we look forward to seeing, when we read Wonder Woman, ..like everybody else, who reads comics. Washington, DC is certainly iconic, but not for anything having to do with WW, and that's obvious to us. I hate it that we, as WW fans, have been put in the position of considering things, which other fandoms take for granted - a regular cast [?], some cool vehicles, familiar settings - as being special, strange or asking too much of the comic. That's messed up, and we're starting to check each other on this stuff, ..as if we need to be talked down from something crazy.

Maybe, WW doesn't need a CAST. Why does every comic need...? Can you imagine the readers of Superman, Batman or Spider-Man comics asking themselves, if their comics needed a CAST? Listen to us. That's insane.

The readers of Superman comics have enjoyed having Metropolis and Smallville for SO long, the creative team can actually afford to move the story out of Metropolis, without messing up the comic. Clark and Lois can go raise their kid in a small town, somewhere, while readers understand Metropolis still belongs to Superman. Comparatively, even Spider-Man has the Daily Bugle - even when we don't see it, we can sigh in reassurance, that the Bugle is there, ..just because it feels good! Why can't we just want this stuff, because we like it, when we see it in other comics ..or superhero movies?

Let a creative team try moving Superman to Boston and giving Metropolis to Black Adam or Martian Manhunter and see what Superfans will do. I'd like to see them try!

Can you imagine Batfans asking themselves what the Bm comic needed with a ROGUES gallery? I've actually heard my fellow fans here muse, that WW might not need an archenemy, because her Wonder-goodness converts bad guys into heroic ones. Can you imagine ANY-body asking themselves what Batman needed with the JOKER, ..after Tim Burton's 1989 [B][I][COLOR="#0000CD"]Batman?[/COLOR][/I][/B]

Yeah. [I]"Who needs stinkin' Joker or the stupid BAT-SIGNAL?! Pesky fans...ungrateful wretches."[/I]

I think we want cool, futuristic vehicles, ..magical weapons, ..familiar AND interesting locales, which tell us we're in our favorite character's town, like every comic fandom does. In some of our conversations here about WW finally getting a fictional iconic town of her own, you'd think we were asking for something unreasonable ..or crazy. I think we want some of that stuff, because the most popular comic books in the world are distinguished by such things, and we think, [I]"Why not WONDER WOMAN? Why not us?"[/I]

Maybe, we want something or somethings that tell us, on sight, we're reading a WW comic! Some cool things, besides Paradise Island and the plane, that make the Wonderverse feel especially ours. I think we're okay.

[QUOTE=Mel Dyer;6280425]The secret ID thing? It made sense in World War II, when Washington, DC was the capital of our war effort, and being there, disguised as Military Intelligence, gave her access to the latest developments in overseas conflicts.

I think we just want some familiar things that we look forward to seeing, when we read Wonder Woman, ..like everybody else, who reads comics. Washington, DC is certainly iconic, but not for anything having to do with WW, and that's obvious to us. I hate it that we, as WW fans, have been put in the position of considering things, which other fandoms take for granted - a regular cast [?], some cool vehicles, familiar settings - as being special, strange or asking too much of the comic. That's messed up, and we're starting to check each other on this stuff...

Maybe, WW doesn't a CAST. Why does every comic...? Can you imagine the readers of Superman, Batman or Spider-Man comics asking themselves, if their comics needed a CAST? Listen to us. That's insane.

The readers of Superman comics have enjoyed having Metropolis and Smallville for SO long, the creative team can actually afford to move the story out of Metropolis, without messing up the comic. Clark and Lois can go raise their kid in a small town, somewhere, while readers understand Metropolis still belongs to Superman. Comparatively, even Spider-Man has the Daily Bugle - even when we don't see it, we can sigh in reassurance, that the Bugle is there, ..just because it feels good! Let a creative team try moving Superman to Boston and giving Metropolis to Black Adam or Martian Manhunter and see what Superfans will do. I'd like to see them try!

I think we want cool, futuristic vehicles, ..magical weapons, ..familiar AND interesting locales, which tell us we're in our favorite character's town, like every comic fandom does.

I think we want something or somethings that tell us, on sight, we're reading a WW comic. Some cool things, besides Paradise Island and the plane, that make the Wonderverse feel especially ours.[/QUOTE]

No WW fan has ever said any of this.

[QUOTE=Agent Z;6280438]No WW fan has ever said any of this.[/QUOTE]

That's incredibly dismissive of Mel Dyer's points, which have definitely been expressed by more than just him on this board. While I don't always agree with Mr. Dyer, I do when it comes to wanting more tech-y and magic-y Amazons, a consistent and interesting supporting cast of characters, and cool locations specific to the Wonder mythos. I don't understand refuting that these things are desired by many Wonder fans...because they are and would help further develop Diana and her world.

[QUOTE=Shimbo;6280511]That's incredibly dismissive of Mel Dyer's points, which have definitely been expressed by more than just him on this board. While I don't always agree with Mr. Dyer, I do when it comes to wanting more tech-y and magic-y Amazons, a consistent and interesting supporting cast of characters, and cool locations specific to the Wonder mythos. I don't understand refuting that these things are desired by many Wonder fans...because they are and would help further develop Diana and her world.[/QUOTE]

There's a GREAT Wonder Woman historian and fellow fan in our community, named [B][COLOR="#B22222"]Carol A. Strickland,[/COLOR][/B] who does most of her posting on Facebook, now. I used to agree with almost everything she said, and what she said, that I didn't agree with, made so much sense that I couldn't post an argument with it, ..without looking completely [B][COLOR="#FF8C00"]obtuse![/COLOR][/B]

So, sometimes I'd pick one of her most sensible points and make some stupid challenge to it, just to mess with her and have a conversation with her, ..because I loved her. We all did, who loved WW the most - still do. Carol would look at those insane babblings of mine and just ignore them, ..and eventually, I'd admit...[I]"Just spoofin' you, Carol!"[/I]

I don't agree, with everything that everyone says. What I take issue with is another postor's willful mischaracterization of something I wrote ..or attacking something, under the false pretext that their politics entitles them to do so. I don't suffer fools, divas, sacred cows or bullies - we don't owe these people anything.

Now, Carol Strickland? She encountered any and everyone of them on any given day, right here on these forums. She packed off more than a few to the big Google rainbow in the sky ..and froze out the rest! Just completely ignored them. Buried them, like Power Girl blowing out a volcano, with one puff! What a class act, she was! I learned a [B]lot[/B] from Carol.

A lot. :cool:

[url]https://www.carolastrickland.com/comics/wwcentral/index.html[/url]

One of the things I learned about, from Carol, is how legendary Wonder-editor [B]Robert Kanigher[/B] impacted the WW comic, in the 1950s, ..after Wonder-creator [B]Dr. William Marston[/B] died. The Silver Age Fifties was when the DCU of today was first taking shape. While the warm familiarity of Gotham City, Central City, Coast City, Ivy City, Metropolis, Midway City and Gateway City ..and their association with the new Hawkman, Green Lantern, Atom, Flash and the Spectre, ..Bob Kanigher's world-building basically stopped at Paradise Island. His cool, iconic vehicles stopped at the Invisible Plane, ..and he neglected to develop any archenemy for Diana, at all. So, YES - we want cool stuff and stuff that we enjoy in other comics, in WW, ..because Kanigher's twenty or so years on this comic really left it behind Superman's, Batman's and the others!

Hell! [B][COLOR="#0066ff"]Fantastic Four[/COLOR][/B] has [B]the Baxter Building[/B] for fans to look for, every time they pick up FF! We don't even have a stupid, iconic BUILDING - Washington Monument belongs to everyone...doesn't count - that belongs to the Wonderverse, specifically. That's pretty sucky, comparatively.

The current creators give me hope, that we might catch up, sooner, than later. I don't think wanting all that makes us weird.

[QUOTE=Shimbo;6280511]That's incredibly dismissive of Mel Dyer's points, which have definitely been expressed by more than just him on this board. While I don't always agree with Mr. Dyer, I do when it comes to wanting more tech-y and magic-y Amazons, a consistent and interesting supporting cast of characters, and cool locations specific to the Wonder mythos. I don't understand refuting that these things are desired by many Wonder fans...because they are and would help further develop Diana and her world.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. What I meant was, "No WW fan has ever said we don't want cool vehicles, a consistent supporting cast, a rogues gallery etc". This is an argument Mel Dyer has made several times and I don't know what he's basing it on. It some times feels like he's arguing against a straw man that doesn't exist.

I'm not going to dignify the response, I just read, with a response or a quote.

It was posted with the assumption that the rest of us are too lazy or stupid to read what I actually [B]wrote[/B] ..or to read anything, anywhere [I]else,[/I] that might inform our opinions. Everyone here can scroll up two, three or four posts to what I took good time to share, because [B]I[/B] respect and appreciate my community, ..and see everything in that response to my post is a straight-up [B]lie.[/B] It's not a misinterpretation or nuanced argument. Just a blownoucherbutt, stanky [I]lie.[/I]

Any thinking person can see that.

We don't need to take another postor's words and mischaracterize them, when we know what the hell we're talking about, ..because we read and think. So, here you go...

[QUOTE]...I think we just want some familiar things that we look forward to seeing, when we read Wonder Woman, ..like everybody else, who reads comics. Washington, DC is certainly iconic, but not for anything having to do with WW, and that's obvious to us. I hate it that we, as WW fans, have been put in the position of considering things, which other fandoms take for granted - a regular cast [?], some cool vehicles, familiar settings - as being special, strange or asking too much of the comic. That's messed up, and we're starting to check each other on this stuff, ..as if we need to be talked down from something crazy.

Maybe, WW doesn't need a CAST. Why does every comic need...? Can you imagine the readers of Superman, Batman or Spider-Man comics asking themselves, if their comics needed a CAST? Listen to us. That's insane.

The readers of Superman comics have enjoyed having Metropolis and Smallville for SO long, the creative team can actually afford to move the story out of Metropolis, without messing up the comic. Clark and Lois can go raise their kid in a small town, somewhere, while readers understand Metropolis still belongs to Superman. Comparatively, even Spider-Man has the Daily Bugle - even when we don't see it, we can sigh in reassurance, that the Bugle is there, ..just because it feels good! Why can't we just want this stuff, because we like it, when we see it in other comics ..or superhero movies?...[/QUOTE]

Any thinking person here can click the link below, visit my blog and read everything I've ever discussed here. [I]Wondaflamin'bunga![/I] Look alive, kangaliers!

[QUOTE=Agent Z;6280542]Sorry, I should have been more clear. What I meant was, "No WW fan has ever said we don't want cool vehicles, a consistent supporting cast, a rogues gallery etc". This is an argument Mel Dyer has made several times and I don't know what he's basing it on. It some times feels like he's arguing against a straw man that doesn't exist.[/QUOTE]

I'm the type of fan he's talking about, lol. I obviously care about her having great villains and a solid supporting cast (though I think Mel knows I totally disagree with his approach), but I like Themyscira and the Embassy as home bases much more than a fictional mortal city and I dig the cool gadgets and weapons/vehicles but they only seriously impact my enjoyment of a story when they have narrative significance, e.g. Phil Jimenez's reimagined Themyscira or the military conflict over Amazon tech in Rucka's Post-Crisis run. But I think we can all agree that magical animals are a must. You'd have to be a damn fool to not use kangas!

Honestly demand for conventional cape stuff among WW fans is interesting to me because it's all pretty firmly rooted in SA nostalgia. As Mel said, Kanigher bogarted that entire era and stunted any development, so I can't quite suss out why someone who really digs SA conventions would be drawn to her in the first place. There's a reason why Mark Waid famously doesn't get her - dude's all about the good ol'-fashioned funnybooks, so he doesn't know what to do with a character who's never successfully fit that mold.

The closest she has is the GA lore, but it didn't have a lot of the stuff people are talking about. Marston went all in on the cool sci-fi stuff and gave her a huge world with tons of interesting villains, but she didn't have her own city, a secret fortress, or a tight supporting cast. Her only regular locale was Paradise Island, the Diana Prince ID was paper-thin, Steve was an intentionally lame love interest, and she had an awesome supporting cast but it was a huge revolving door with Steve, the Holliday Girls, and the Amazons.

My favorite WW stories (e.g. Historia, Gods & Mortals, Strangers in Paradise, Down to Earth/Eyes of the Gorgon) are the thoughtful epics that focus on myth meeting modernity and/or dig into Amazon lore, but if someone's going all in on classic superhero world-building I'd personally want an approach that modernizes her rich, unique GA mythos rather than one that tries to make up for her lost Silver Age.

[QUOTE=bardkeep;6280656]I'm the type of fan he's talking about, lol. I obviously care about her having great villains and a solid supporting cast (though I think Mel knows I totally disagree with his approach), but I like Themyscira and the Embassy as home bases much more than a fictional mortal city and I dig the cool gadgets and weapons/vehicles but they only seriously impact my enjoyment of a story when they have narrative significance, e.g. Phil Jimenez's reimagined Themyscira or the military conflict over Amazon tech in Rucka's Post-Crisis run. But I think we can all agree that magical animals are a must. You'd have to be a damn fool to not use kangas!

Honestly demand for conventional cape stuff among WW fans is interesting to me because it's all pretty firmly rooted in SA nostalgia. As Mel said, Kanigher bogarted that entire era and stunted any development, so I can't quite suss out why someone who really digs SA conventions would be drawn to her in the first place. There's a reason why Mark Waid famously doesn't get her - dude's all about the good ol'-fashioned funnybooks, so he doesn't know what to do with a character who's never successfully fit that mold.

The closest she has is the GA lore, but it didn't have a lot of the stuff people are talking about. Marston went all in on the cool sci-fi stuff and gave her a huge world with tons of interesting villains, but she didn't have her own city, a secret fortress, or a tight supporting cast. Her only regular locale was Paradise Island, the Diana Prince ID was paper-thin, Steve was an intentionally lame love interest, and she had an awesome supporting cast but it was a huge revolving door with Steve, the Holliday Girls, and the Amazons.

My favorite WW stories (e.g. Historia, Gods & Mortals, Strangers in Paradise, Down to Earth/Eyes of the Gorgon) are the thoughtful epics that focus on myth meeting modernity and/or dig into Amazon lore, but if someone's going all in on classic superhero world-building I'd personally want an approach that modernizes her rich, unique GA mythos rather than one that tries to make up for her lost Silver Age.[/QUOTE]

You are one of those fans, I'm speaking to and trying to understand better. Thank you for the recognition.

My approach? That we need TWO monthlies - the Biden-inspired two comic solution - to showcase all that marvelous stuff we want to see in our WW comics?

I haven't had the occasion to chat up as many older WW fans, as I have fans of Superman, Batman and Namor, ..but ran into enough at the cons, to know those guys loved ETTA! Most of them, more than even Steve Trevor! That, I must say, has been one of the biggest surprises I've had, talking to fans of the Golden Age. Etta was a fixture enough that guys, who grew up reading Golden Age WW comics in the Fifties, profess to loving Etta, because she was a fun-loving, happy warrior, ..like a side-order character out of a Western or old movie serial. I wouldn't have guessed that for anything, assured that, coming out of World War II, Col. Trevor would have been their natural [I]favorite...[/I]

[B]Wrong![/B]

My position on the importance of Diana's friendship with (then, younger) Etta - the wonder-woman and the everywoman ..or [I]everyperson,[/I] each finding something of the other in themselves - has been made rock solid, by what I've digested on WW, in the last half decade or so. Get these two right - the TV show and movies didn't - and what Dr. Marston hoped they would mean to us mortals, center the Wonder-narrative on that diamond, ..and you've got classic [I]Wonder Woman,[/I] with or without kangas, Hynotas and baby-ruled planets! That, hands down, is probably the best gift Ms. Carol A. Strickland ever gave me.

I have got to write about this woman. She is amazing... [url]https://www.carolastrickland.com/comics/wwcentral/index.html[/url]

As for the prospects of Wonder-town, ..the work of the current creative team, which I love, is pushing me towards favoring a super-Washington, like Stan Lee Spider-Man's New York, for Diana's hometown in MW. If you take a really good look at the Washington, DC of the Marston Era, that's the stage he was telling stories on. Ghoulish agents of Mars slithering in and out of the halls of political and military power...out of people running our war effort! Big, oversized marble monuments and gorgeous Greco-Roman architecture, everywhere...waiting to be pulverized in a battle, between Diana and whatever giant robots, malevolent gods and monsters happened to be trampling through DC, at the time! Spies, some of them god-possessed or controlled by invading aliens...everywhere! That wasn't the Washington of reality, but a weird, almost Felliniesque (sometimes), surreal parody of the Nation's Capitol that Marston and H. G. Peter crafted to bring their stories to life - the super-Washington I mentioned, ..and it was fabulous.

I must confess to favoring that approach, regressive it may be to you, over returning to Gateway City--even over settling Diana in the American Southwest. If writers can dial back her urbanization a bit [Please. Please!] ..and bring back some of her Southwestern cowgirl charm and rugged optimism, who needs Texas, Arizona or Wyoming? Etta, even the current/new one, should standout against the X-filesy super-Washington, like a sore thumb on a desert highway. My approach, the whole point of posting that ARGUS citadel thing, would be to make Diana's Gothametropolis, ..right here in DC or Georgetown.

I'm all for stories about Diana and Etta romping around on the Island with the Amazons, just as they did in the Golden Age--not because I'm stuck in the Golden Age, as some would have you believe. No, no, no.

As I see it, the sisterhood of Diana and Etta, now with Dr. Minerva added [Brilliant!], ..is the narrative heart of the comic. Diana's love for Hippolyta and her Amazon sisters CAN'T be the center of it. Why? They can't be, because that would make WW's leaving the Island for Man's World...pointless? Why would she? It just doesn't work. Doesn't flow. If you get Diana and Etta and what they represent right, Dr. Minerva, the Amazons and Hippolyta will fall smoothly into place, I think. Do we need TWO monthlies to make that happen? Maybe? Maybe, not, ..but, I think we do need two [I]Wonder Woman[/I] monthlies, to secure the present WW monthly for mainstream comic fare - superheroics, non-stop action, some comedy.

And [B]boys[/B]...Steve, Siggy, Batman and romance, on the side!

My position on all of that, except for the super-Washington idea, is nothing new. I literally wrote a THREE part opinion essay, titled [I]"Boys On The Side"[/I]...jeez Luiz. All on the blog, to read, until your eyes bleed! LOL

Pretty much agree with Bardkeep, no sense making up for lost time in the Silver Age.

Though as a resident Bay Stater, I wouldn't mind Diana setting up shop in Boston again ( :cool: ). A bonus since I don't view fictional comic book cities as superior to real ones.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6280682]Pretty much agree with Bardkeep, no sense making up for lost time in the Silver Age.

Though as a resident Bay Stater, I wouldn't mind Diana setting up shop in Boston again ( :cool: ). A bonus since I don't view fictional comic book cities as superior to real ones.[/QUOTE]

While writing "Marston City Limits", I came to the conclusion that much of my favoring a fictional, iconic city over DC (where I live, presently) ..has been driven by seeing the impact of Gotham and Metropolis on fans and pop culture and wanting to experience that in the WW comic. All of my high-minded deconstructive speculation aside - for a lot of us, who want it, ..that's why, and it's no less a respectable reason. Favoring fantasy cities for WW doesn't mean we judge them, superior to real-world ones.

The heart wants what it wants, ..but...[B][COLOR="#800000"]Boston?[/COLOR][/B] What's in Boston? I love George Perez as much as the next guy, but, for the life of me...Boston? I will never understand why, of all places, he would settle Diana in Boston. I would love to hear what so many of us find appealing about Wonder Woman in Boston! How many of us see WW as an urban creature, generally speaking? Boston, New York City, Frisco...?

Anyway...we [B]are[/B] reading comic books, after all. In the immortal words (and gams) of Lt. Nyota Uhura, "This isn't reality. This ..is FANTASY!" LOL

[QUOTE=Mel Dyer;6280673]You are one of those fans, I'm speaking to and trying to understand better. Thank you for the recognition.

My approach? That we need TWO monthlies - the Biden-inspired two comic solution - to showcase all that marvelous stuff we want to see in our WW comics?

I haven't had the occasion to chat up as many older WW fans, as I have fans of Superman, Batman and Namor, ..but ran into enough at the cons, to know those guys loved ETTA! Most of them, more than even Steve Trevor! That, I must say, has been one of the biggest surprises I've had, talking to fans of the Golden Age. Etta was a fixture enough that guys, who grew up reading Golden Age WW comics in the Fifties, profess to loving Etta, because she was a fun-loving, happy warrior, ..like a side-order character out of a Western or old movie serial. I wouldn't have guessed that for anything, assured that, coming out of World War II, Col. Trevor would have been their natural [I]favorite...[/I]

[B]Wrong![/B]

My position on the importance of Diana's friendship with (then, younger) Etta - the wonder-woman and the everywoman ..or [I]everyperson,[/I] each finding something of the other in themselves - has been made rock solid, by what I've digested on WW, in the last half decade or so. Get these two right - the TV show and movies didn't - and what Dr. Marston hoped they would mean to us mortals, center the Wonder-narrative on that diamond, ..and you've got classic [I]Wonder Woman,[/I] with or without kangas, Hynotas and baby-ruled planets! That, hands down, is probably the best gift Ms. Carol A. Strickland ever gave me.

I have got to write about this woman. She is amazing... [url]https://www.carolastrickland.com/comics/wwcentral/index.html[/url]

As for the prospects of Wonder-town, ..the work of the current creative team, which I love, is pushing me towards favoring a super-Washington, like Stan Lee Spider-Man's New York, for Diana's hometown in MW. If you take a really good look at the Washington, DC of the Marston Era, that's the stage he was telling stories on. Ghoulish agents of Mars slithering in and out of the halls of political and military power...out of people running our war effort! Big, oversized marble monuments and gorgeous Greco-Roman architecture, everywhere...waiting to be pulverized in a battle, between Diana and whatever giant robots, malevolent gods and monsters happened to be trampling through DC, at the time! Spies, some of them god-possessed or controlled by invading aliens...everywhere! That wasn't the Washington of reality, but a weird, almost Felliniesque (sometimes), surreal parody of the Nation's Capitol that Marston and H. G. Peter crafted to bring their stories to life - the super-Washington I mentioned, ..and it was fabulous.

I must confess to favoring that approach, regressive it may be to you, over returning to Gateway City--even over settling Diana in the American Southwest. If writers can dial back her urbanization a bit [Please. Please!] ..and bring back some of her Southwestern cowgirl charm and rugged optimism, who needs Texas, Arizona or Wyoming? Etta, even the current/new one, should standout against the X-filesy super-Washington, like a sore thumb on a desert highway. My approach, the whole point of posting that ARGUS citadel thing, would be to make Diana's Gothametropolis, ..right here in DC or Georgetown.

I'm all for stories about Diana and Etta romping around on the Island with the Amazons, just as they did in the Golden Age--not because I'm stuck in the Golden Age, as some would have you believe. No, no, no.

As I see it, the sisterhood of Diana and Etta, now with Dr. Minerva added [Brilliant!], ..is the narrative heart of the comic. Diana's love for Hippolyta and her Amazon sisters CAN'T be the center of it. Why? They can't be, because that would make WW's leaving the Island for Man's World...pointless? Why would she? It just doesn't work. Doesn't flow. If you get Diana and Etta and what they represent right, Dr. Minerva, the Amazons and Hippolyta will fall smoothly into place, I think. Do we need TWO monthlies to make that happen? Maybe? Maybe, not, ..but, I think we do need two [I]Wonder Woman[/I] monthlies, to secure the present WW monthly for mainstream comic fare - superheroics, non-stop action, some comedy.

And [B]boys[/B]...Steve, Siggy, Batman and romance, on the side!

My position on all of that, except for the super-Washington idea, is nothing new. I literally wrote a THREE part opinion essay, titled [I]"Boys On The Side"[/I]...jeez Luiz. All on the blog, to read, until your eyes bleed! LOL[/QUOTE]

Lol I pretty vehemently disagree with a lot of this (especially the parts about wanting more boys and Diana as a southwestern cowgirl) but I'm 100% with you on everywoman BFF Etta. Sucking the fun out of her, turning her into a military brat, and getting rid of the Holliday girls was Perez's single greatest misstep, IMO.

I actually thought Renae De Liz's Legend of WW had the perfect modern take on Etta and the Holliday Girls. Loved Etta as the embarrassed Texan daughter of a big-headed Nathan Arizona type, loved how fun she was, loved that she stacked up to Diana with no special skills other than her cleverness and charm, loved the girls being a band like they were back in the day. It's a shame Diana was so dry.

Not sure I follow you on your comment about how the Amazons can't be the narrative heart of the comics, though. Isn't the point that leaving the island is a sacrifice because she's leaving the people she loves most for a planet of strangers? And as much as I love Etta and wish they really focused on that relationship, I'll admit that the Amazons are probably the biggest thing that draws me to the character so I'm always gonna prefer them as the narrative and emotional core.

Don't think anyone here would be against another monthly, though!

There are some things in comics that just prove very popular with the audience and thus adapting them to all heroes is...almost a must unless you are creative enough to change it up.

Batman is known for Gotham City. Superman is known for Metropolis. Spiderman is known for NYC, Buffy has Sunnydale. They are iconic aspects of the characters. Superman having a fortress, Bats a cave, X-Men a mansion, Spidey a basic apartment, it goes on and on on Superheroes having locations to call home, a homebase, it's something that fans remember about them.

If Diana doesn't have a city to call home, she certainly needs some type of base that fans can grasp onto and be familiar with. Unfortunately Themiscryia is located very far away from so unless someone can find a way to have her be notified of threats from there that isnt corny...a homebase that has issues in her backyard makes the most sense.

I want Diana to have a stable home-away-from-home, supporting cast, a well developed recurring rogues gallery and even a Wonder Girl (preferably pre-Crisis Donna) not just because other IPs have that, but because I like the examples of that stuff we have had in her book. Marston and Perez had it, and those were her highest selling eras.

She shouldn't have a secret ID just because other heroes have it; even if we have Diana Prince, I feel like her doing away with it is a natural end point for that arc whereas losing Clark Kent doesn't really work for Superman. She shouldn't have a kid just so Damian and Jon can have a playmate.

But a firm core cast that doesn't change every time there is a new writer and well developed villains can only help her, even if those are trends that are copy-pasted from other superheroes.

No need for more men though. For the regulars/semi-regulars, Steve and Ferdinand and maybe whoever Steve's boss happens to be at the moment (Darnell or Michaelis) are more than enough. The main draw of this property is that most of the major roles are filled by women. I'm a dude, and I still have zero interest in seeing more dudes brought in taking up space.

Wow. I literally typed 'Boys on the side', somewhere today. I know I didn't imagine that. LOL.

For my money, that means the Diana-Etta-Barbara dynamic blazing, like a STAR, at the center, with menfolk - that's Col. Steve and Siggy, presently - strong as hot coffee, but always on the side...never ever central to or defining the on-going narrative.

I think we're good-to-go on the men, right now. #793 brought in Big Blue and the Bat as guest stars, and that's fine, for what Mike and Becky did with them. I think the WW comic has enough male regulars, ..again Steve and Siggy.

I'd buy the action figures. Col. Steve needs his own nigh indestructible TANK, though, ..and sometimes, the girls can ride! Haa'ha...

I'd love to see the WW comic acknowledge that all black people or 'real' black people do not all come from cities or subscribe to urban culture. Roughly a third of African Americans live in small towns and rural areas, and their stories are just as deserving to be told as we, who dwell in cities.

I don't see Wonder Woman as an urban creature or even someone, who would want to live in a big, NE American city, ..but don't see her as a cowgirl, either. One cowgirl in the corral, Etta, is enough for both of them, I am sure.

LOL

I agree with Primal Slayer that Diana needs some kind of interesting place to put her boots up, in MW.

[QUOTE=Primal Slayer;6280853]There are some things in comics that just prove very popular with the audience and thus adapting them to all heroes is...almost a must unless you are creative enough to change it up.

Batman is known for Gotham City. Superman is known for Metropolis. Spiderman is known for NYC, Buffy has Sunnydale. They are iconic aspects of the characters. Superman having a fortress, Bats a cave, X-Men a mansion, Spidey a basic apartment, it goes on and on on Superheroes having locations to call home, a homebase, it's something that fans remember about them.

If Diana doesn't have a city to call home, she certainly needs some type of base that fans can grasp onto and be familiar with. Unfortunately Themiscryia is located very far away from so unless someone can find a way to have her be notified of threats from there that isnt corny...a homebase that has issues in her backyard makes the most sense.[/QUOTE]

Themyscira is the unique location WW is known for, it's pretty much Smallville/Krypton roled into one.

Another generic comicbook city among a sea of thousands isn't going to standout, at least Metropolis and Gotham have grandfather clauses to coverup their own inadequacies.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6280907]Themyscira is the unique location WW is known for, it's pretty much Smallville/Krypton roled into one.

Another generic comicbook city among a sea of thousands isn't going to standout, at least Metropolis and Gotham have grandfather clauses to coverup their own inadequacies.[/QUOTE]

While I agree that Diana doesn't need a fictional city to live in outside of Themyscira (for old times sake, it should be Washington D.C. or Boston), I wouldn't say Metropolis or Gotham have inadequacies as locations at all. Their distinct identities have just been developed over a way longer period, and it's way too late in the game to really establish that for Diana.

[QUOTE=Gaius;6280907]Themyscira is the unique location WW is known for, it's pretty much Smallville/Krypton roled into one.

Another generic comicbook city among a sea of thousands isn't going to standout, at least Metropolis and Gotham have grandfather clauses to coverup their own inadequacies.[/QUOTE]

Like I said, if she doesnt have a city to call home, she needs some type of home base. If she ever were to get a tv show, unless it was high budget....she'd be put in a home base, likely one city with travel here and there.

DC is known for their fake cities and its a huge part of a lot of their a-list heroes. It's a fact that they stand out whether someone likes it or not.

Diana not having a city is just apart of a very long list of the problems WW has faced.